Serious discussion about Israel. Who's in the right and who's in the wrong /b/? I'm writing an expository essay, so the less biased you are the better, I've already read up on what I can but more is better.
Basically, Palestine got a chunk of their land taken after WWII so the Jews could have "muh ancestral home goyim," now they're not content with it and keep pushing Palestinians further and further away, which Murrica is supporting because they like Jewish sandniggers better than the Islamic variety.
I don't think it's as cut and dry as you say, Israel is definitely in the wrong but Britain and America had a big part to play as well.
They'll just be anti-semitic for the sake of it, you know it.
>Britain and America had a big part to play
How many jews are in high positions in America again?
and Britain basically follows America everywhere so...
I think it is quite cut and dry.
+ Israel continuing to expand into Palestinian land
Imagine for a second if the US was encroaching on Mexican land, do you think Mexico would roll over?
I think there would be some resistance there.
The only way to be as unbiased as possible is to look at the morality of each sides actions in isolation. Meaning, the morality of action X is independent of any justification.
So, the bombing of a school cannot be justified by the bombing of a bus. And the bombing of a bus is not justified by the killing of some children - which is not justified by the kidnapping and murder of a soldier, which is not justified by....
Once you look at each act in isolation; without accepting "one wrong justifies another", you will see that all sides in the Israeli conflict are immoral, unethical, and thoroughly corrupt.
Britain started this whole thing because they're assholes and promised the same land to both the Jews and Palestinians, at the time Palestine was under British control. In this case it's Britain that started all this, not the other way around.
It's difficult but the argument boils down to whether you agree that the country that was originally there should own the land or the country that successfully took them over. Is the area palistine because it was always palistine or has Israel won the land in right of conquest.
"In response to the White Paper, the right-wing Zionist militant group Irgun began formulating plans for a rebellion to evict the British and establish an independent Jewish state. Ze'ev Jabotinsky, the founder of Irgun, who had been exiled from Palestine by the British, proposed a plan for a revolt to take place in October 1939, which he sent to the Irgun High Command in six coded letters. Under Jabotinsky's plan, he, together with other "illegals", would arrive in Palestine by boat, and the Irgun would help him and other passengers escape. Next, the Irgun would raid and occupy Government House, as well as other British centers of power in Palestine, raise the Jewish national flag, and hold them for at least 24 hours even at a heavy cost. Simultaneously, Zionist leaders in Western Europe and the United States would proclaim an independent Jewish state in Palestine, and would function as a government-in-exile"
what you seem to have forgotten is how the British Mandate of Palestine & the Middle East (I take Egypt as a worthy example) treated Jews before the whole 1948 humdrum declaration of Israel and it's consequences. Jews were well integrated in Middle Eastern societies, and played a pro-active role in them. In Egypt, you were considered Egyptian before you were considered a Jew (with a few exceptions, but generally there was no broad anti-Jewish sentiment).
That all changed with the declaration if Israel, which triggered an Anti-ZIONIST sentiment. This then translated into a broader anti-jewish settlement.
So, if you look at causation, not correlation, you can clearly see Israel, is in fact to blame.
>the irony is that Ashkenazi Jews aren't even semitic, yet they scream bloody murder at every given interval and bark at the rest of the world for being 'anti-semitic'
actual semites are second-class citizens, if not third class.
That's not what I read, correct me if I'm wrong, but even though Palestinians were the majority they received a smaller cut of the land, and the land was less good too.
"In November 1947 the UN General Assembly voted overwhelmingly to recommend partition of Palestine into Arab and Jewish states. The two states were to be joined in an economic union, and Jerusalem would be administered by the United Nations. The Arabs would get 43 percent of the land, the Jews 57 percent. The proposed apportionment should be assessed in light of the following facts: The Jewish portion was better land; by the end of 1947 the percentage of Palestine purchased by Jews was less than 7 percent; Jewish land purchases accounted for only 10 percent of the proposed Jewish state; and Jews made up less than one-third of the population of Palestine. Moreover, the Jewish state was to include 497,000 Arabs, who would constitute just under 50 percent of the new state's population."
what logic is that you fucking retard.
"THEY HAVE A LOT OF LAND WHY CAN'T WE HAVE SOME TOO :("
What the fuck is up with your sense of entitlement? What makes your claim legitimate? The fact that Arabs have land means you're entitled to some, by default? If so, why?
>inb4 because muh religion
And then.. whoops! they declared war against the israelis and lost most of their land. they couldn't be satisfied with what they had in their hands so they went on and lost most of it to a country that barely had 100k people in it.
Israel is a country that was won by conquest, they have the right to rule.
However, they also treat Palestinians like shit.
But Palestinians continue to attack Jews.
Jews retort and kill many civilians.
Palestinians hole up around schools, mosques and hospitals, civilian casualties expect to combat enemies.
Jews take more land from conquest, as it has always been since the beginning of time.
Palestinians at any moment can stop fighting and better lives and have a decent society.
But they won't, Islam hates western society, they'd rather live in mud huts and be devout.
Conspiracy around Jews has existed for two thousand years, how much of it is true?
Israel is completely surrounded by enemies
I am neutral to Israel but Palestinians only make the lives of their people worse by fighting, it is a fruitless battle that only result in their demise.
There was very strong anti zionist sentiment all through Europe before WWII. The holocaust happened because there were so many willing supporters.
Anti zionism essentially started in the medieval era because islam forbids lending money at interest while the Christian church taught that you shouldn't even expect your principle back.
This left only the Jew to be professional money lenders and financiers. Naturally, a few became extremely wealthy. This is why they got the image of being wealthy and controlling the currency in the first place.
Anti Zionism started over 1500 years ago.
It only makes sense, their property was seized by Israel, they lost all their possessions, why are they the bad guy here? It's almost like you have 3 apples and one is rotten, I take the two good ones and then when you attack me, you're the bad guy.
ask a guy who lives less than 2 miles from Gaza everything
no, no. that isn't about religion at all. Palestinians were originally from Jordan or Egypt, and they came there only around 100 years ago when jewish people began to settle there in around the 1910-1920s. before that, no one wanted to have anything to do with this land.
yes, i agree. but, from this UN shelter, Hamas actually settled rocket launchers and launched rockets, risking the lives of Palestinians there. Hamas doesn't give a flying fuck about Palestinian lives.
Both sides want blood. Both are racists. Both are religious nuts. Perhaps not equally, I'm not saying they're both exactly the same amount of wrong, I'm just saying anybody who isn't directly involved and wants to get involved on the side of one of them, is basically a retard.
I said unbiased, this is bigoted as fuck.
"But they won't, Islam hates western society, they'd rather live in mud huts and be devout. "
See I think you have your causation wrong. Palestine hates the west because they blame them for what happened.
Regarding the present, it does not matter who is in the right. The clashes will continue.
Assuming the Arabs would give in on Israels demands, there would be peace though.
If the state of Israel would give in on the Arabs demands, the fighting would continue.
>all of california, the tech hub of the US
Mind you, America made better use of the land than Mexico ever did.
does it make it right? no.
but in the grand scheme of things it's kind of good they did.
Kind of like how the Romans raped and murdered their way across Europe but left us those fantastic trade routes that supplied us years after.
Maybe it's the same with Israel?
but, the jews are known rats and tend to only care about themselves so I doubt it.
I think the original sin was the U.N. charter which took land from someone and handed it to someone else.
That's a terrible idea anywhere, any time, to anyone.
If there were to be an Israeli state carved out of anywhere, it should have been in the middle of Kansas where they would be surrounded by the people who love them.
I'm from Israel and I can surely say to you more than half of my people say "Haha who gives a shit about arabs fuck them and gaza. Let's kill them all." That isn't the optimal state, but it is the current situation. The other side couldn't even be close to win the elections that were held around a month ago.
because America is basically controlled by Jews, they get away with so much shit t's ridiculous. I'm not even a conspiracy theorist, but the shit they do is ridiculous.
>be promised full mandate of Palestine by Brits in pre-WWI times
>Brits fuck you over
>You are expected to just shut up and play along
how is that logical?
Note the distinction between anti-zionism and anti-judaism, because you're making the mistake of thinking the two are the same. Big mistake.
But that's not true, that's simply not true. Palestinians (and assorted Arabs) were there long before the Jewish Settlements started. You forget that for a lot of muslims, Palestine is holy land, and that they fought crusaders to reclaim said land. Arabs have been there for a long, long time.
That's actually bollocks, full blooded bollocks. You forget the religious justification found within Israel, and how strong religious-based parties are in Israel, just look at the composition of the Knesset.
Also, quoting Netanyahu: "There will never be a Palestinian state so long as I am in office"
how peace loving is that?
>Let's not forget the Camp David Accords, which were truly based on a desire for peace, were signed by both Arabs & Israelis, and was put forward by Arabs.
Even at that, Jew quite literally run our country. It was for them we destabilized Iran during the Reagan administration, and that bombshell led to 9/11. To whichwe invaded Iraq over, and Afghanistan, and helped them fight Palestine after they were Fucking with Palestine, and now we wanna wipe Iran off the face of the map because Israel feels threatened by them, we even go to lengths of making Shit up, Iran does not have a nuclear weapon. They've been saying the same Shit for almost 20 years now and yet still no weapon. But if isreal wants us to commit genocide again we'd do it, but why? What are we getting out of it? We stuck our nose in middle eastern business for isreal and it got us a decade long terrorist war. We keep saying they're our "closest allies" none of America's allies are friends for the sake of being friends. We want something from them, well be friends, they have something we want, let's be friends, they don't wanna share? Let's blow them up and force them to share. It's what we did with Iran. But what are we getting from Israel? What are they giving us? We can't be going through this much Shit just for a buddy
I agree. The UN is always holier-than-thou but it's clear they've made some huge mistakes. The US didn't want Jewish immigrants though, it's part of the reason they're backing Israel.
May i ask you, what is your solution? IDF can't just sit there and do nothing, as there's a lot of criticism from civilians if nothing is done to protect them from Hamas' rockets, but bombing there isn't the best solution from your pov.
>Jews want homeland (not because of religious reasons, first Zionists were atheists)
>British say the Jews can have it because guilt
>Problem is there are already people living there
>British say okay you guys will just have to share
>Palestinians say fuck that - who the fuck are you to give our land away
>Jews laugh because by not taking the 'deal' they can now take as much as they want
>Jews start committing acts of terrorism against Palestinians
>Jews start committing acts of terrorism against the British
>British clear out
>Palestinians are fucked now because Jews are rich and have no problem ethnic cleansing their ass
>Palestinians do their best to fight back
>Jews use it as an excuse to increase security and take more land
>Palestinians do their best to fight back
>Jews use it as an excuse to increase security and take more land
Rinse and repeat
>Let's not forget the Camp David Accords, which were truly based on a desire for peace, were signed by both Arabs & Israelis, and was put forward by Arabs.
yes, until our pm was murdered by an idiot called igal amir that basically ended the whole peace program by saying "HURR DURR NO PEACE THEY'RE STUPID ARABS" shortly after that. Since then, no pm dared to mess with that.
GENETIC SNEAKY PEOPLE ONLY SURVIVE IN THE DESERT
FOR THOUSAND OF YEARS ONLY THE SNEAKY AND HEARTLESS SURVIVED.
NOW ARABS AREA ALMOST THE SAME, SNEAKY AND HEARTLESS.
WHO WOULD SURIVE IN A DESERT BY HAVING EMPATHY>?>\
ARABS AND JEWS ARE GENETICALLY LESS TRUSTWORTHY AND DON'T CARE ABOUT OTHERS
fuck them both, fuck the sandniggers and fuck those greedy sneaky heartless jews/
When it comes right down to it, who "owns" a land is determined by two things.
1. who can defend it
2. who can live on it.
Unfortunately, might really does make right. History everywhere is rife with examples.
nope. most of the nigerians here are stuck in the south of tel aviv, without jobs and their kids are in messed up "babysitter homes" where they're left without anyone watching for weeks. 5 nigerian/aritrean (if i'm writing that properly) children died in the last month because of it.
because it's seen as a resistance movement against an oppressive, totalitarian, anti-semtic state who'se sole ambition when it comes to Arabs is to eradicate them.
For many Palestinians, the Israeli government is directly comparable to pre-final solution Nazi Germany. That's why there's support for Hamas.
And the fact of the matter is, Amir has been lauded as a hero in some circles and no-one bats an eye. Until someone steps up their game and tries to initiate a sustainable peace process, no matter the personal cost, I can categorically state that the Israeli "we want peace and shit" claim is false. Sadat was shot by radical Islamists, and Egypt was expelled from the Arab league for around a decade, but it still did it's best to uphold peace. That's why you elect leaders. To ilicit change. You can't simply say "oh no I'm afraid, let's perpetuate a fucking conflict"
jew here and all i have to say to you nigger is fuck off dont ever think to come to israel you vile scum. israel must have a strong and productive genepool and no nigger dna FUCK OFF!!! go to europe
>>611061449 israel took alot of palestinian territory because of the wars. there were like 6 wars since 1947 when lebanon.syria.egypt and jordan attacked israel+the palestinians living in israel.. they didnt couquer their territory without a reason. they attacked israel and they deserved it
>>611062340 israel doesnt want blood. if you would live here,you will understand. all you hear about israel is from the news
israel doesnt attack gaza without a reason. were not bored. they attack us and we fight back. then they are asking for a Ceasefire and after some time attacking us again... its like this for like 10 years lol
by the way im a non jewish person who lives in israel and im just saying the facts
yeah make a strong gene pool with your ugly inbred faces
you women always try to look western/classy but are very UGLY inside and outside!
what a horrible personalities Jewish bitches have
jew here yes mr. nigerian: heres a tip my friend you can have lots of social benefits as twice as much as any european country would offer. can easily sneak in just a short walk through a semi deserted area from egypt. once you are here in israel you made it and get lots of free money and healthcare and stuff
How can you expect peace when you keep on illegally expanding into the West Bank? You can't simply keep on displacing people under false, illegitimate practices and declare yourself the patron saint of non-violence and reason, can you now?
>That's why you elect leaders. To ilicit change. You can't simply say "oh no I'm afraid, let's perpetuate a fucking conflict"
who says i'm with them? I wish to believe we can make a change. many people chose to believe so and tried to get someone who's a left-winger elected but even though bibi and him were tied for a very long time that didn't work out. Right now, we're stuck in a cycle where no one likes bibi and his policy to its fullest yet he keeps being elected due to tricks and fooling people. In the recent election, he said in panic "the arabs are coming to vote!" like it's not legitimate and suddenly everyone voted bibi to make sure "the arabs won't succeed in their villainous deed".
I'm not the guy you asked, but integration is the only viable solution.
Which is why the Jews should not be there in the first place. Isolation only leads to more hostility - via Jewish exceptionalism. But integration leads to the destruction of jewish culture.
Let's face it, no neighbors anywhere would ever tolerate a people who think their god gives them license to take whatever the fuck they want.
The only place that would welcome them is in the middle of the Amazon.
make sure you rape as many jewish women and impregnate them. if possible, rape the men too.
spread your nigger seed into israel. take over the world with your nigger seed
then post it on /hc/ in all of the other cuck threads
>>Basically, Palestine got a chunk of their land taken after WWII so the Jews could have "muh ancestral home goyim," now they're not content with it and keep pushing Palestinians further and further away, which Murrica is supporting because they like Jewish sandniggers better than the Islamic variety.
Yet it's much more complicated than that.
One, Jews lived there continuously since biblical times- so they are as much native to the area as the Arabs living there in 1945.
Two, there was no country of "Palestine" and the Arabs there never governed the area. Prior to 1945 an expiring British mandate ran things in the area.
Three, it is true of course that many Jews started moving there after the Holocaust. The Israeli founding myth is that the Jews simply bought out the Arabs, who voluntarily sold and moved out. The reality was more complicated. Some did sell voluntarily. Others were driven away.
Three, the Jews were subject to surprise attack by their Arab neighbor nations on not one, but two occasions. Both times, Israel pushed back the invaders and seized territory as a buffer zone.
Now, it so happened that some of the land that Israel seized in response to attack, had been ancestrally perceived as part of Israel. Since the wars, Israel has been reluctant to give it back, in part for self defense reasons, in part as vengeance for being attacked, and in part because a small but influential class of "settler" fanatics have placed themselves in the area, often in violation of Israeli law.
In short, there is a giant mess over there. But to say "hurr durr Jews" or "hurr durr Mudslimes hate us for our freedom" is equally stupid.
I am refugee myself and living right now south of Tel Aviv. Its like heaven, the state of Israel pays for my home and my family with 6 children. I am ffrom Eritrea and i get a monthly government income of around approximately 4000 UD dollars. Its heaven on earth and much better than i anticipated and me and my family were on the way to Europe, never had known that Israel is the better choice for seeking refuge. Thank you and Israel rocks!!!!
Ah shit, I'm sorry for attacking you then man, I must have misunderstood you.
It's up to you guys to elicit change. I know shit ain't easy. But it is vital that Israel distances itself from this anti-Arab mentality.
I know I'm probably lashing out at the wrong person again, sorry mayne.
>there was no country of "Palestine"
The bible says otherwise.
And the same bible tells us the Jews committed genocide while taking that land.
Their own history proudly admits they committed genocide in the taking of that land.
>>611064441 if idf wasnt in the west bank there would be a massive terror in israel (more than there is now)
the palestinian people want one thing- to kill jews. of course not 100% of them want so. I know alot of good palestinian friends. but the ones that living in the west bank want us gone not from the west bank,but from the entire country
and whats wrong with idf in west bank? were doing nothing to them. the soldiers there are 18-20 years old just like you when you go to college. yea,we arrest 5 year old palestinians cuz they are throwing rocks and trying to kill soldiers...
Ofc it's ok, bro. Ain't mad. It's really something that's not obvious at all. I guess most of the world thinks that Israel is full of people who believe bibi is the king of the universe.
sterilizing them? not really. however, making their kids die not directly by fucked up kindergartens? yeah. shoving them in some sort of a jail in the desert to make sure they don't come to tel aviv? yeah too.
um, hate to bite but these people who attempt to illegally enter Israel are being held in open-air prisons with barely a tent to cover them at night. They get no stipends and have no access to health care. They are dying in the open air.
>'yea, we arrest 5 year old palestinians cuz they are throwing rocks and trying to kill soldiers"
Given all the equipment the IDF has, and how well kitted out their soldiers are, do you really think rocks are a concern? I think they solved that problem back in the middle ages with plate armor. You've lost your humanity as you've become desensitized and mired in your false survivalist attitudes. You can't trample on a country and expect them to not fight back, you can't shit fury, use white phosphorus bombs on schools full of kids and expect no ramifications to be there. You have to immediately cease. You have to realize that what you're doing is fucking up any sustainable chance of peace. Let me break it down:
>Israel bombs Gaza/displaces people from the west bank
>children, exposed to the brutal nature of the conflict (or fucking arrests) are shaped by their experiences, and develop a deep resentment for Israel
>start to become radicalized in their teens, and take action due to the anguish they've experienced
>causes Israel to drop more bombs, repeating the circle.
Do you fucking get it now? You can't stamp out a belief. With every new generation of Palestinians, more shaped by their experiences, you create an even bigger Frankenstein. This is your fault, and you refuse to see it, in fact you justify it.
It's just the statements he makes and the shit he gets away with, it's probably skewed my vision of Israel's government.
I'm Arab and I'm friends with tons of Israelis, but there's a sort of non-spoken agreement we have not to talk about politics, so yeah.
It seems to me that most people don't see this point of view, they just see terrorists bombing innocent civilians. Which is true, they are terrorists bombing innocent civilians, but the point is that Israel created them.
Nobody acknowledges that point of view.Whenever I try to talk about it I'm usually bombarded with an influx of both ad hominem and other attempts to de-legitimize my point of view. It's retarded.
<<611065319 rocks are a concern.
i can post more 100 videos like these.. anyway- idf soldiers arent well kitted to rocks.. cuz nowhere in the world soldiers wearing armor plates like in game of thrones.. what will happen if ill throw a rock on a soldier in another country? probably get executed lol
bombs on schools? hamas is firing rockets from those shcools. if we have to chose who to defend, our children or theirs.. choise is well known
youre acting like idf are terrorists. we dont want to harm children. but it happens cuz its called WAR. should I remind you how much citizens and children got killed when us bombed japan?
>Israel launched a pre-emptive strike before the arabs could actually build any sort fo attack.
Oh, so you disregard the other invasions of Israel so as only to talk about 1967? Fine, let's talk about 1967. After a series of military incursions, and the massing of Arab troops on its border, Israel's intelligence confirmed an invasion was planned and hit the Arab militaries with air strikes.
Is that wrong? Should they have waited for an actual physical invasion?
Please let me know what Israel did here that was objectionable. I'll wait.
>bombs on schools? hamas is firing rockets from those shcools. if we have to chose who to defend, our children or theirs.. choise is well known
and to be clear, the Law of Land Warfare makes it legal to strike an instrument of war such as a store of rockets, even if the belligerent stores it at an otherwise protected site such as a school or hospital. Of course Hamas cynically chooses to use its own children as bait, for in their worldview it's win-win. Either Israel stays its hand and the rockets get used another day against civilians, or Israel destroys the rockets at the school, children inevitably die, and Hamas gets to say "OMG they are killing children!"
Honestly, there is no right side in this. Both sides are guilty of atrocities, and war crimes. Neither wants to compromise, so there's no peaceful solution possible. The West either needs to stay the fuck out of it, or put extreme pressure on both sides to find a peaceful solution.
SHAME ON ISRAEL SHAME ON ISRAEL!!!! WE WANT HUMAN RIGHTS IN ISRAEL!!! BLACK LIVES MATTER!!! SEND HATEMAILS TO JEWISH MEDIA AND COMPLAIN ABOUT ISRAELS STRICT AND INHUMAN IMMIGRATION POLICY!!!
>what will happen if ill throw a rock on a soldier in another country? probably get executed lol
In a civilized country 5 year olds aren't arrested for throwing rocks, much less executed. Teenagers shouldn't be either, they're a result of festered hatred towards Israel and aren't to blame. Adults should know better I guess.
Don't bother. The people who think otherwise are the same people that think Israel is always in the wrong. Everytime the Arabs stop fighting, there is peace...every time the Israelis stop fighting, there is massive bloodshed. One side actually wants peace, the other wants to see everyone else dead.
Golda Meir said it best, "when the arabs learn to love their children as much as they hate us, these attacks will stop."
op.. israel controls the world. the banks, the media, etc. what you read on the net bullshit they wrote it they controlled it, hear it from an arab instead.
jews were not wanted in europe < that alone created havoc around the world. specially great britian that fought so hard to relocate all jews in one land and give them a country away from europe so they cut a deal with Palestinian leaders.
late 40's israel declared it's country based on a tiny piece of land that (and no close minded arab wants to admit it) those tribal palest leaders sold to them, yes zionists bought some lands in Palestine and they had the right to live in them but in 1948-1951 zonists overwhelmed the arabs with their greed by taking much more than they bought.
until today israel is slowly taking over Palestine, the sad truth they could have lived in the lands they bought but they want it all.
my story is very short and if you want deep details read george galloway's reports and youtube interviews and radio station links to his side of the story which is 100% more genuine and detailed the man is highly educated after all and ethical.
in conclusion, a few palestinian old farts seflishly sold some of their land to zionists (not jews, jews hate zionists and want to live in piece with arabs) but the zionists betrayed the treaty, morals and ethics and took it all. soon enough they will take it all and no one can do anything because even a country like usa is paying israel 8 million bucks a day from tax payers money for no reason but to keep their banks under their rule and the money in zionists wallets as long as wall street is in control. write about this and you will get arrested and hated for the rest of your life because one jew will one day read your school report and call you anti Semitic in courts if he doesnt like you, they dig deep, they are demented and extremely smart especially amongst oblivion western countries that still believe in 9/11.
I say we take off, and nuke the entire site from orbit...
While all jews will tell you otherwise, there is a COMPLETELY UNJUSTIFIED conquering of palestinian territory going on.
It started out like this: America felt bad for jews, so they, without the permission of the palestinians, deported jews and took what is now "israel" by force.
Initially, Isral was very small, and the palestinians were fucking pissed, but they accepted that they couldn't do anything about it, and lived on with their lives, just now with jews having their own little place nearby.
The jews started expanding like assholes, violently, and backed by america, taking more and more palestine areas, now israel owns the entirety of palestine aside from a couple VERY SMALL areas, and palestine is fighting for a good reason.
Jews are VERY racist and discriminatory of the palestinians, they are not allowed to go wherever they want even if they abide by jewish laws and follow their system, because they are a lower class of humans than the jews, there are a lot of laws going against them.
Basically, being palestinian sucks, fucking jews.
>there is no right side in this
Only if you don't take into account the whole history. Jews took what wasn't theirs because they were told by the British (who had no right to it) that they could have it.
>>611061149 israel wants to compromise but the palestinians want jerusalem and another territories. thats why were allways in war with them.. and obviously they want us dead. they teaching 6 years old boys to shoot with an ak in a millitary camp in gaza.. thats what they are teaching them. killing jews. if you dont belive me i can post videos..
>my story is very short and if you want deep details read george galloway's reports and youtube interviews and radio station links to his side of the story which is 100% more genuine and detailed the man is highly educated after all and ethical.
hahaha, Galloway is "ethical," thanks for the morning laugh. Galloway was paid millions of pounds in diverted oil money by Saddam Hussein, in return for his speeches praising Saddam. That he has been able to use the British legal system to suppress this information, some of which is contained in Iraqi documents seized after the war, is a testament to the dysfunction of British law.
I meant to say oblivious not oblivion*
to conclude write the israeli side of the story and you get an a+ write the truth and you will end up like mel gibson targeted and framed to bullshit he never made (just because the 99% jewish owned hollywood told him not to release the passion of christ as it goes against their torat biblical story, hardcore christians dont appreciate jews in their heart for what they did to jesus) if you're into that religious blabber
I don't even give a shit about sandniggers, the only thing that bothers me is israeli global policy. They've gone to far on nationalism, kinda reminds me of the good ol' germany, except they aren't arians, but jews instead.
They also try to pressure the media everywhere in the world, making nonsense things look "anti-semitic", they preach hatred against everything not "kosher".
They even talk about hate as an unacceptable feeling, while they hate 90% of the world.
Except there is no such thing as 'Palsestinian Land' because Palestein was never a country. They were nomads who occupied the area but the nature of being a nomad means the land isn't really yours anyway
>not realizing the difference between engaging in brinkmanship and an actual threat
the arabs knew full well that they didn't have the means to invade Israel, they tried that 19 years earlier. It was all brinkmanship.
So, if you're peace loving, yes. Wait for an actual invasion. You don't see South Korea engaged in a war right now, do you?
you have an iron dome system, and you use it to repel rockets. You are in no immediate existential threat that warrants the killing of children. Regardless of the circumstances, their safety is paramount. On either side.
>the US bombed Japan s-so why can't we do the same?
Oh, I forgot, because someone dropped A-bombs it's perfectly okay for you to do whatever the fuck you want. Right. Cause that's logical. (sarcasm heavily implied).
Are you really that short-sighted? Do you not plan out the ramifications of what it is you're doing? Do you not have a concept of choosing the lesser of two evils? Do you want this war to end? The peace negotiations are a shamble, with the Israeli side seeing them as not more than an instrument to maintain a peace-loving facade, whilst continuing a war to legitimize their incursions, their advancements, and everything that is explicitly laid out as illegal and immoral under the tenants of international law.
You're using war to justify doing whatever the fuck you want to. Does that ring a bell? No, Big Brother?
Israel is surrounded by states that have explicitly committed themselves to its destruction. Too far in nationalism? They allow Arabs to be citizens. They have offered land for peace.
Ask Iran its feelings about whether Israel should be destroyed. Does Iran call for destruction of any other country?
Much of Israeli diplomacy consists of trying to build alliances, as any nation does.
allegations you read on the internet without critically researching and reading make you the most insignificant poster on earth. what did you learn in university? I am an arab who despises the arab leaders and the corrupted politics I would genuinely stand against any man in the world whther he is a muslim or a jew if he was not telling the truth. my close friend is an israeli and I am a muslim arab living in australia lol.... I do not care what everyone says if you can not read critically do not post over-repeated propaganda. that saddam hussein allegation is extremely hilarious by the way that no one in the world taks it seriously but the israeli's who twisted the story to try bring him down and it didnt work because it sounded so dumb, but what do you know the other day an israeli man threatened to kill him and instead beat him up. you are so young in the world of information if you still do not question what you hear about people who try stand up against big powers.
trust me behind every big power money and intelligence, if someone say something against them they are worth listening to, if something is said against those people question who wrote/said it. because someone with that much money and power can control the media, your bank account your children and your brain. think twice dont be irrational
>>nomads- a member of a people having no permanent abode, and who travel from place to place to find fresh pasture for their livestock.
doesn't quite fit.
If murder wasn't lawfully wrong, does that make it right/justifiable?
Great, so now what? Forcibly relocate the entire population of Israel? It's not going to happen, and it's unreasonable to suggest it. If we started doing that, just about any country that exists, exists on land stolen from someone else at some point. Like I said, it ain't happening.
yes we do. but still its not allways working. innocent people died from their rockets..
and even with the iron dome,when someone firing rockets at you thats not a reason to attack that place? k brah. idk where youre from,but i wanna see how your country is gonna react when you get shot by rockets
you will be surprised. the un is only against recent israeli activities the un will NEVER be against israel. zionisim controls the world banks, the more power and wealth a small society gains, the harder to penetrate their story. it becomes so far fetched and hard for the average man to understand it that they call it conspiracy theories. a critical researcher however, will figure it out and will be squashed later.
>late 40's israel declared it's country based on a tiny piece of land that (and no close minded arab wants to admit it) those tribal palest leaders sold to them, yes zionists bought some lands in Palestine and they had the right to live in them but in 1948-1951 zonists overwhelmed the arabs with their greed by taking much more than they bought.
I'm not into politics and don't support either side, but this part is pretty obvious: The Arabs launched a war. They lost. How could they fight the war against the Arabs on some small pieces of land? Taking it was the only rational option
jews didnt have a country.usa decided that jews should have a country so usa can have an ally in mid east.israel took ground of other countries to make one for themselves.those other countries(iran palestine egypt(maybe more)) declared war at israel.israel smashed them all in 6 days(dafuq they were a new country,with what army and money did they win **usa usa**).since then they have a war with palestine for gaza.i tend to support palestine on this
At the very least Israel needs to stop expanding it's borders every chance they get, and give the Palestinians who were expelled from their land a place to live. It doesn't change the atrocities that were committed, but it's something.
>>611068326 possible. i must say. but these are mistakes.. we dont want to kill children but it happens unfortnuately,but its very rare. most of the pictures shown in the news arent from gaza at all.. they are from syria
the same can be here.. a 18 years old soldier can get killed in front of his friends eyes.. still,none of us become terrorists
anyway the entire world will blame israel even if we will give ice cream for them.. lol
They allow arabs to be citizens on their own, taken land? They offered a little chunk of their own land back for peace?
I don't know any of other israelian ally than the US.
I don't want to make conspiracy theories, but the neighbourhood of isreal seems to be full of civil wars, all of these "rebellian groups" were given weapons by "someone"...seems to be the whole area got destabilized, while the jewish are taking more and more land
lol. and israel is a country? read my other posts.
Jerusalem is the center of the world, religiously speaking. christians jews and muslims wanted to occupy it. jews never occupied shit, they were the oldest godly religion of the three, chrisitaity prospured more and came along when war and countries were more sophisticated which is why jews did not accomplish anything historically. muslims were the latest and they were the first in the land and they won their land for over 1600 years even before the persian ottoman empire. blah blah blah I can keep going on and on and on but your stubborn zionist brain will never learn because its either brainwashed or it is purely too evil to accept the truth.
who's right and who's wrong? idk look at this picture of israel dropping white phosphorus (illegal chemical warfare) on palestine and you tell me
bro your comment is an irrational spew. "The Jews" did not fabricate the Iraqi documents that show Galloway got paid. I don't know why you would throw your credibility behind believing such a fantasy. Galloway is irrelevant to the validity or lack thereof of your cause. You make yourself look foolish by positing a Jewish conspiracy to bring him down.
As an aside, I often wonder what I'd do if I were a Palestinian. I think if I were a young Palestinian I'd be looking for a way out of the middle east. Where can they go though? The other Arab countries refuse to allow them to immigrate there. I assume that unless they have family ties in the US or Europe it's impossible to go there. So, where then? How does this shit work? I assume you can tell me? I'd appreciate the information if you have it. Thanks man.
>It Won't Work Without the Americans
>U.S. Business Owners Can Be Fined and Imprisoned for Supporting Israeli Boycott
Israels top Rabbi: Gentiles only exist to serve Jews
>Israeli Government funds Leading Rabbi who Advocates Slaughter of Gentile Babies
"even babies of gentiles who do not violate the seven Noahide laws, there is cause to kill them because of the future threat that will be caused if they are raised to be wicked people like their parents."
>"Israel has received more direct aid from the United States since World War II than any other country"
>U.S. aid to Israel totals $233.7b over six decades
>If you're American then this is the only page you really need to read to know why you should consider Israel to be a treacherous snake.
It's a chronology of every false flag terrorist attack and other act of betrayal Israel has committed against America over the last 60+ years.
Rachel Corrie, U.S. activist killed by Israel bulldozer, brought it "upon herself," court says
>Israel's little known concentration/labor camps
>UN: Palestinian kids tortured, used as shields by Israel
>Does Israel have a right to exist?
>Amnesty Intl: 'Indisputable evidence' of Israel's use of white phosphorus against civilians
>Rabbi encourages IDF soldiers to use Palestinian human shields
>IDF used children as human shields
>IDF use of human shields
0:36 onwards, this is 1981.
"Not a single country has any alternative" [the peace process]
I call bullshit on your claim. Learn to read between the lines. Stop allowing yourself to be another mindless twit with an understanding of the middle east based on what you hear leaderships say. They have an image to maintain, but are not stupid.
I'm from Egypt. We believe in diplomacy, and react only when we have to,and when we do, we don't over-do it. Also, the third reply from my comment addresses your point about self-defence.
Attacks will cease when there is peace. Not immediately, because of the lost generations of Palestinians Israel has created. Stopping the creation of lost generations will alleviate the conflict, and through a viable peace process it will end.
>Israel interior minister vows to send Gaza back to Middle Ages
>Israel should flatten Gaza like Hiroshima, says Gilad Sharon
>Jews think genocide is justified
>“There are no innocents in Gaza, don’t let any diplomats who want to look good in the world endanger your lives – mow them down!” says Michael Ben-Ari
>"Killing a couple dozen civilians in one go is reasonable" states Israeli military personnel
>Hillary to Israel "One State Solution"
>Leaked plan of Israeli reverse migration
>Israel's shattered image
>The extent of aparthied in Israel
>How BDS will win
>The myth of "generous peace" offers
>Palestinians live what Israelis fear
>130 year old Jewish document against Israel
>Failure of the Hasbara movement
>The OTHER Jewish state..? [BIROBIDJAN]
>UN: Palestinian children tortured, used as shields by Israel
>Does Israel actually have a right to exist?
>Amnesty International: 'Indisputable evidence' of Israel's use of white phosphorus against civilians
>>611068513 well thats kinda true.. a close friend of mine is an arab.
>>611068997 we dont expanding our borders anymore.. not ever since last war. everytime we expended our borders was because of war. their fault. funny thing is they lose everytime and crying lol
>I don't want to make conspiracy theories, but the neighbourhood of isreal seems to be full of civil wars, all of these "rebellian groups" were given weapons by "someone"...seems to be the whole area got destabilized, while the jewish are taking more and more land
top kek. arabs couldn't ever fight amongst themselves without Jews being at fault? people all over the world, in state societies and hunter gatherer societies have fought amongst themselves.
did you just quote my post and not read it properly? the palestinian leaders were aware they sold an insignificant piece of land and the world was ok with it until the day they took it they unleashed military and intel power Palestinians never expected. they took over more than what they paid for. it's called occupation. they occupied lands that were not theirs. how would you feel if zionists bought half of new york, but the day they signed the paper they signled their militery to invade texas, california, arizona, and maybe 4 more states and once they occupied them they slowly move into the other states leaving you with seattle only.. and that soon would be taken too. got the point? have you seen how much progress they have done since 1948 until today? they swallowed the whole country.
now look at how usa even got involved in ww2 to fight off the nazis because no one accepted a devil to take over peoples homes and countries.. "arabs" did just the same but then whos controlling usa banks? I will leave it at that.
yeah, there is no muslim terrorism, in fact it's western propaganda.
>being this stupid
>>611069543 as an israeli citizen,I must agree. the jewish people in jerusalem are fking shame. if I could I would kick them out of here.. they are ruining our country,taking 1 billion each year for learning the fking bible. anyway its just like 25% of israel..
the other jews are nice. only the ones in jerusalem and bney brak are bad cuz they just learn bible all day and getting paid for it+telling that christian people are bad (and im a christian)
Jidf why still try? we all saw the threads on /pol/. Anti semitism is back in a big way and, once again, the jews brought it on themselves with their overbearing desire to control and exploit Goyim for their tribes benefit.
that's because your people have caused people to hate sand niggers
there might be a little, but you're too retarded to see the bigger picture. i don't even wanna explain it to you. keep watching these retarded ass videos tho, and continue being a good goy
Are you serious? They kill diaper heads! Thank you, Israel!
>yeah, they don't even look at converted jews as one of their own. you have to have pure jewish blood in you to be looked at as anything other than a stupid goy
as a Jew I will tell you that this is untrue. Jewish law makes it illegal to disparage a convert. My brother married a girl who converted and our whole family and all the Jews we know treat her as one of us.
What is true, is that every Jewish mother wants her kids to marry someone raised Jewish. So what- same is true of many Italians and nobody gives a damn. I'll also allow that many non-Ashkenazi Jews are not that friendly to outsiders. But in that event you'll probably never date a Syrian Jew or a Ukranian Jew, so you won't be converting to marry one, and if you have a religious experience and want to convert, it will most likely be through Ashkenazis that you meet, and you will most likely be doing it through Reform, simply because they are more interactive with non-Jews.
I'd like to add there is a strange mix of disdain and semi-envy in these comments: on the one hand, dislike of Jews. On the other, a kind of longing that "you can never be one of them." Well, if you don't like Jews, why would you give a shit?
But if you want to meet some Jews and see how we actually are, instead of going on /b/ to hear people bitch about them, why not come to a synagogue and meet some? You will find that we are just like everyone else, and tend to be very welcoming. I'm in New Orleans and attend occasionally. You'd be welcome to meet up sometime. Decide for yourself.
lel.. watch out the 9/11 believer will call you a conspiracy theorist. regardless lets call 1.8 billion people of which 70% are Indonesians and indians then arabs consume 9% of them or some shit terrorists.
like calling white Christians terrorists because hitler killed 6 million jews and other millions of coloured non chrisitans, and the kkk, the inbred american religious cults and the 1000's of priest pedophilia cases around the world make christians non-terrorists.
and let me add re Ashkenazi / Ukranian- what I meant to say was that Ashkenazi Jews of German descent are the most familiar to Americans and tend to be most open. East European Jews, even if Ashkenazi, come from a related but different tradition. My great-grandfather, for example, disliked East European Jews, and my dad and grandfather would hear him disparage them in terms that US anti-semites would use to put down Jews. Very odd, that.
nigga i live in jew york city, the most inbred jewish place of them all. i've met your people and i just moved out of a jewish neighborhood, i can testify to their superiority complex. why is a jew even on 4chan?
Jews are the stronger nation, they are the only ones who can start the road to peace. They wont though; if you have seen how Jewish people treat not Jews, especially in the USA, you would understand that they are a very close knit community and treat outsiders like trash. Its not just in Israel but out here in the states. I am not trying to make it seems like all Jews are evil or anything, but the fact of the matter is they treat Latin, Arab, African, and any other people not if their own as a lesser people.
>nigga i live in jew york city, the most inbred jewish place of them all. i've met your people and i just moved out of a jewish neighborhood, i can testify to their superiority complex. why is a jew even on 4chan?
I lived in New York for 12 years and hardly spoke to any of my neighbors. How did you come to know about the superiority complex these Jews you lived by have?
I haven't read the back-and-forth of the conversation, but this:
Israel was carved up out of the former Ottoman empire (which was not a collection of independent states) -- along with the losing aggressors after WWI and WWII. The Ottomans picked the wrong side. There are many old German cities which are now located in Poland, for example. You don't see Germans holding onto the same kind of grudges against losing territory in war, because they don't have such a deep-seated -- almost genetic -- hated for Poles, unlike the hatred that most Arabs have for Jews.
So the partition plan was initially to involve not only what is not Israel, but also the Transjordan (basically, modern Jordan). But the British (in particular) decided to allocate the Jews a much smaller area, so they concentrated on what is now called Palestine.
So already, there's the standard re-drawing of maps after war, plus the reduced amount of land allotted to the Jews displaced by the Holocaust.
It's generally claimed that terrorism is a response to occupation. This isn't true. You can find many pogroms against Jewish populations in the region going back even before the partition. Against the Jews who had been living there since time immemorial, as well as the new immigrants fleeing the Nazis, and other Jew-haters in Europe (it didn't die out with WWII -- there were several pogroms against Jews in Poland even AFTER WWII ended).
Back to partition. Even within the smaller area divided between the Jews and Arabs (forget Transjordan), the Arabs reject it. They also reject another plan which gives less area to the Jews.
Jews fight to create an independent state. Arab armies unite to destroy the tiny state. The Jews win. Arabs begin to go apeshit.
A couple more wars of aggression waged against Israel on all sides. Jews win, Arabs go apeshit.
Some Muslim countries eventually make peace. Egypt first, then Turkey and Jordan. Eh, out of space.
First of all they force you to convert if you want to marry their child, which is the definition of religious intolerance. Secondly, most jew mom's aren't very receptive to it.
>First of all they force you to convert if you want to marry their child, which is the definition of religious intolerance. Secondly, most jew mom's aren't very receptive to it.
Comedy dude- you don't have to convert to get married in the US! To have a Jewish wedding you typically do, although there are some rabbis who will perform weddings where one spouse is not converting. Also, people range in experiences and worldviews. Some Jewish mothers, somewhere, assuredly do not give 2 shits about Judaism or who their kids marry. Some more traditional do. So what.
Every religion has its hangups. To marry a Catholic you have to agree to "be open to raising the kids as Catholic" and if you won't do it, no priest will perform your wedding. Do you denounce Catholics in the same breath? And they have authority set by a central figure, the pope. Jews are all over the map, totally decentralized.
Hell, if you call yourself a Jew and let it be known you are, nobody will break down your door. You can live your whole life as whatever kind of Jew you consider yourself to be. Or, not.
>They also reject another plan which gives less area to the Jews.
Palestinians were the majority, less area for the jews means nothing if you take that into account. Plus the land is already occupied, you have to force Palestinians to leave.
>It's generally claimed that terrorism is a response to occupation. This isn't true. You can find many pogroms against Jewish populations in the region going back even before the partition. Against the Jews who had been living there since time immemorial, as well as the new immigrants fleeing the Nazis, and other Jew-haters in Europe (it didn't die out with WWII -- there were several pogroms against Jews in Poland even AFTER WWII ended).
Hamas is most definitely a response to the occupation. I'm sure there was anti-semitism before the occupation, but not on this scale.
itt: mudslimes and liberal crybabies with sand in their vaginas
you do realize that the first picture on the left would make OP a lesbian, and that all the other pictures are of gay men?
>this is the average demographic for people who fall for JIDF shit
Everything g your saying is disinformation. Of course I could walk around calling myself a jew. That won't get me a free birthright trip, or any of the numerous other jew privileges.
Do I denounce catholicism? Yes of course... It's pretty sick, but for different reasons than Judaism.
Hamas is just as much a response to the occupation as it is an outgrowth of the indigenous hatred of Jews (and anyone else) in a "Muslim" territory who aren't subservient to Islam.
>Palestinians weren't forced to leave
Not all of them, some were paid. Some weren't.
>How do you think there came to be Arab citizens of Israel? They didn't hide in trees for a few years until things simmered down.
What do you think a Palestinian camp is? There are Palestinians out there living in camps because they were fooled into leaving 'temporarily' by Israel. There are other Palestinians that are better off and successfully migrated to other places (me included).
I'm blonde haired and can trace his roots back to Austria and think you deserve a place in the Gas chamber more than jews. At least Jews contribute to science and industry, all you do is stink up your moms basement. Luckily you won't be around much longer when we send you to FEMA camps and start gassing you invalids by the thousands.
The US is its most vocal, and unconditional ally. France and Britain have always been in bed with them too though. France is how they initially became so well armed, it's just that France also armed their enemies as well, which hurt relations somewhat. France used to be really bad about selling arms to anyone who could pay. Not for sure just how much they've changed over time.
Your first two points are valid bases for argument. Your third (hasbara/JIDF) is just /pol/ tinfoil hat paranoia.
If you can give up that bit of conspiracy theory as a tactic of argument against anyone who disagrees with you, you might be capable of a reasonable discussion
Yes and they are treated so nicely... The point is the conversion thing isn't a very good defence of a sick, tribal religion. We don't want to pretend to believe your lies about Goyim just so we can marry you.>>611072708
>doesn't make an argument
>bitches at me for not making a counter-argument
Have you been headbanging on a cymbal to talentless neo-nazi fake-ass metal bands again? Or have you been inhaling too much smoke from all the crosses you burn?
itt: people who have never been to Israel and get all of their news from Cuckhold News Network and half-assed /pol/ articles, nor will ever because mom won't even let them go to the street unsupervised
There are Palestinians out there living in camps because they were fooled into leaving 'temporarily' by Israel.
That's an oversimplifaction. True, some left because of Israeli military violence, essentially forced to leave. Others migrated voluntarily. Some refused to live under rule by those whom they considered their eternal enemy... for many Muslims, to have anything other than a superior political status to a Jew is anathema. To their sensibilities, and to what Islam teaches.
Exaggerate much? You're a fucking dope. Many Israeli Arabs (sure, not all) are 100% loyal to the country, and voluntarily serve in the military. They know they've got it better than they would have it in any other Arab state.
kek, I have family in Jordan, Qatar, Dubai, etc. Palestinians are common af there, we have full citizenship and everything. I have an Australian AND a Jordanian passport. You're just spouting bullshit at this point. Although it is true that in various Palestinian camps conditions are bad and the Arabs there don't care, you're pretending being a Palestinian in Israel is a positive experience.
That's simply incorrect. The Israeli government has no constitution guiding it and simply hires out Jewish ngo's to distribute property stolen from the Palestinians in order to jews, and only jews.
Your argument of "they fight and die in our army" doesn't do much to work against the Jim crow comparison... Many blacks were "uncle toms" in that time. I was however very impressed by your eloquence and avoidance of anger.
what are you even on about? Based on your comments, you've portrayed yourself as both, by demonstrating an aversion & hatred for sandniggers and liberals (hence white superemacist/neo nazi) and as a JIDF shill by defending Israel by delegitimizing mudslimes, given that the entire thread is based on a premise of Palestinians (muslims) vs israelis.
you're as thick as a tree stump, jesus fuck
How are the political freedoms in Jordan, Qatar, Dubai, etc.?
And how are the social freedoms in Jordan, Qatar, Dubai, etc.?
And is your family representative of the elite, or the common folks (particularly re Jordan)?
And how did they gain full citizenship? Surely not by virtue of merely being of Palestinian origin. Sounds like your family is one of means. Those countries you mention aren't exactly welcoming of displaced Palestinians, are they.
Be honest for a bit, will you?
Now you should see the point of birthright... "trust me Goyim, it's really not that bad the Palestinians love us"
Right... That explains why they organize terrorist cells to fight you...
>How are the political freedoms in Jordan, Qatar, Dubai, etc.?
And how are the social freedoms in Jordan, Qatar, Dubai, etc.?
>And how did they gain full citizenship? Surely not by virtue of merely being of Palestinian origin. Sounds like your family is one of means. Those countries you mention aren't exactly welcoming of displaced Palestinians, are they.
No, you're right, they weren't taken as political refugees, I did mention my family was better off, so I wasn't lying. My point was that Palestinians aren't all happy about Israeli occupation like you make it out to be.
> Political, social freedoms...?
> Great, thanks.
You know that's not true. For your family, perhaps things are hunky dory. Because the elites generally don't give a shit about the system because it suits them. But there is no tradition of opposition politics for the disgruntled.
HAPPY BIRTHDAY HITLER!
We miss you.
No, I didn't claim that.
But to assume that anyone who voices an opinion that opposes yours is squarely in conspiracy-theory territory.
It exposes the one who makes the automatic JIDF accusation as a bona-fide lamebrain.
I don't even know what you're trying to say. Qatar is a great place to live in if you're not a poor immigrant. And before you say 'Oh its so wrong to exploit immigrants for slave labor' take into account that if they had anything better they wouldn't do it, so clearly they're better off with it than without it. It's exploitative, and I'm against it, but at least Qatar allows immigrants in, so is the US better?
I assume this is what you're talking about, because otherwise it's fine and dandy in Qatar. I spent years 2-10 of my education there before I moved to Australia to finish school and go to Uni.
You live in a fantasy world. That doesn't happen. Arab citizens of Israel live in their own country (Israel), will full access to education, jobs, politics, etc. They are just as vulnerable to Hamas attacks as Jewish Israelis.
(Actually, I think you must have misunderstood... we're talking about Arab citizens of Israel. They live in Tel Aviv, Haifa, Jerusalem, etc.)
Qatar. The oasis of Arab progressivism. Where people receive life sentences, without due process, for peacefully criticizing the government. And where boning a dude can land you in jail. And again, it's more or less a model of Arab modernity.
I wasn't even going to comment on the labor situation. But you know that abuses abound. People with no education move there seeking a better future, but they're fucked with few protections if their employer turns out to be a cheat/sadist of some sort.
It is better in the U.S. (where I don't live, btw). Labor-rights organizations are plentiful, powerful, and there are government agencies who advocate on behalf of exploited laborers. Not to mention a lawyer behind every tree, happy to take on a labor lawsuit.
So what you're saying is there's less liberty there right? You can't have sex with a guy and there are all sorts of things you can get in trouble for, like smoking weed. And yet, the crime rate there is really good: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_Qatar
I've lived there for 8 years. It's not 'progressive' but it doesn't have to be, it's a nice place to live if you don't mind the heat.