France. Yes, some countries have worse food. But France has spent hundreds of years convincing the rest of the world that they have the best cuisine, when in reality all they have are thousands of chefs willing to travel abroad and "educate" the locals.
>>7000472 >I told him that with the exception of Italy and France this is generally untrue
OK, I agree with you there. But it's a bit silly to compare regional differences between a single European country and the US. The difference in size (and therefore climate) in different parts of the country make such a comparison silly. It makes more sense to compare the US with Europe as a whole. If you want to talk about regional differences within a single European country then it would make more sense to compare that with regional differences in a single US state.
>>7000424 eh. one should make a distinction between countries that actually have a cuisine (like Britain and France) and countries that have not progressed beyond the absolute basics the Nordic countries are basic as fuck. Finland in particular is stuck in the fucking stone age, which is interesting but not tasty.
all this being said, the absolute worst cuisine in the world has to be British
I get what the Japs are trying to do, but to me they're a close second. the line between subtle and bland is way too often crossed.
Nordic cuisine (Swedish, Norwegian, Finnish, Icelandic, Danish) may vary from dull, uncreative and insipid (potatoes with anything else able to grow in their frozen wastelands) to absolutely disgusting (putrid jelly fish, goat heads, rotting shark meat, etc).
The same can be said of the cuisine of any Northern European country, such as British (either boring and tasteless or nauseatingly repulsive), Irish (non-existant) and Baltic (rancid and uninspired).
>>7001955 I like it personally. I'm an American and make shitpost "fucking American" comments all the time. I encourage everyone to do it. There are only two ways to kill a meme on 4chan: make it popular on another site or beat it to death so hard that no one wants to use it.
>>7000536 Not him, but you can easily make mistakes on most flip cuisine.
>tfw mom is a great cook >tfw mom makes a batch of food back home neighbors would start buying all her stuff >tfw she got bored of cooking after we all graduated She still cooks for me here in Texas now whenever she is here so it's still fucking awesome
I've tried a lot of national cuisines in my day and the one I found most stomach-churning was Russian. It has a lot of milk-soups and gelatinous cubes and stuff. It just looks really unappetizing and tastes pretty much how you'd expect.
I've heard about British cuisine being bad but to me it's just sorta bland but passable. Russian cuisine struck me as aggressively terrible.
I personally don't like Chinese, but I don't think it's bad, just not for me. Slavic food is boring but again my mother is from the eastern block so cabbage and boiled meat where standard when I was young
>>7003241 How do you think Ebola-Chan got so far in her travels? They love bushmeat there and it is the only affordable meat for a significant portion of the population. There are many documentaries that show the citizens saying Ebola was a western plot to take all of the bushmeat for ourselves and that they will continue to eat it in proud defiance of our evil plot.
>>7006312 the muezzin is calling adhan, you dont want to be late britbong. we can discuss your country's shit food afterwards. you can even try convincing me how sophisticated your full english breakfasts are.
>>7006345 I like this picture because it basically implies that it's bad that white south africans are getting what was coming to them even though it's actually justice being served.
I for one find it delightful to hear white ethnically european colonists from rhodesia and south africa whining about how the land they stole is now back in the hands of its rightful owners. Come on you retards, what in the fuck did you expect?
>>7006399 I expected the monkeys of Zimbabwe to beg the white man to come back, and I got exactly what I expected. Face it, they fucking need white people over there or they'll all be following general butt naked and eating each other.
>>7006325 No one in their right mind would think that a full English is sophisticated. It's nearly the exact opposite, it's what a construction worker eats to fuel him throughout the day, and it's not very good at that. I guess you could make the argument that it could be getting the lobster treatment that happened in America, a food for the poor or working class becomes part of high society over time. Yet a full English is not in high society just yet.
>>7006399 >it's actually justice being served. Yeah, damn them for making an actual civilized country. We wuz pharos and sheeeeeeit
>back in the hands of its rightful owners No one owned that land. Hell, no one even lived on that land. When colonials landed, the entire population of either of those countries were likely under 25K, entirely comprised of nomadic hunters and foragers. A human hand had never placed a seed in the soil until Europeans arrived and turned it into one of the greatest food-crop producing regions on earth, rivaling the American grasslands even.
The Zulu and Xhosa didn't even migrate down from the coasts until Colonization. And when they did, they killed whatever small tribes of Bantu were already there and leeched off both the whites AND blacks that were working to make SA/Rhodesia good.
Oh, but liberals think all blacks are the same, that there isn't dozens of very unique and different ethnic groups, with centuries of history and conflict with one another. I guess you have to be a craaaaazy racist to think that these days.
>>7006469 >palestine was just desert until israel got there, only bedouins with no fixed address >after the israelis built the oasis against barbarism that has been there for over 47,000 years (did you know gays are allowed?) the palestinians started to multiply but only after it was built against barbarism which was only 50 years ago even though it was 47,000 years ago, and also drove out the bedouins who are really just refugees from jordan and hate gays >anyone who doesn't agree with this is antisemitic and hates gays
>>7000615 As an estonian I can confirm that food's basic, but honestly estonian and finnish cuisine (probably other nordic countries aswell?) to me is the basics of food, it's food I'd eat every day without exceptions, unlike italian cuisine or japanese or stuff that I will eat maybe once a week max. Also the more 'special' cuisine really reminds you and keeps you connected with what really goes on when you butcher an animal and make food out of it. Once you go meat&potato lifestyle, you dont go back.
What do you do with the blood, the intestines, the excess fat? What happens with the bones?
You know and understand this just because of the various foods eaten, and very little is wasted regards to food here.
So, now that we're done shitposting like madmen, can we get to the real >numbah ONE Shittiest cuisine by a fucking MILE is Inuit. not actually trying to talk shit about them, but the motherfuckers will eat anything.
Have any of you had raw wale blubber before? It tastes like goddamn sewage, and it's the least offensive part of their diet.
As i have been recently woven in to the american fabric, i have to say that most food that has made their way to the usa gets butchered for mass consumption. american cousine takes some of the best dishes from its immigrant populations then replaces ingredients, you go from fresh ingredients picked ripe, to unripe fruits and veg that have to be trucked arround for weeks and are ingenered for size and looks rather than taste. Also "cheese," salt, and sugar are added to make up for the sugar development and taste that happens as a veg or fruit rippens. Its just tge reality. Sure organic, heirloom, picked ripe awesomenes makes delicious food, the location of that food doesnt really matter.
Russian, easily. Let's do a rundown of the most popular answers here:
>British and Irish? Merely bland. I bet you tell everyone Crystal Skull was the worst movie you've ever seen too, you meme spouting pieces of shit >Norwegian and Danish? Nordic food mostly just alternates between bland and occasionally weird. There are some truly awful exceptions, but you can do far worse >Icelandic? Ya, I know I just addressed Nordic cuisine, but Icelandic food does seem to stand out as singularly awful. It might be the only thing to beat Russia. But I've never had any, so I'll withhold judgement >American? Please. Even at its worst, the most you can accuse it of is a lack of subtlety. Also, why is all the bad food here "American," while all the good food "stolen from ____?" We're almost entirely a country of immigrants, so the distinction is pretty artificial. Italian-American food can be pretty awesome, for example, and it's distinctly different from "proper" Italian cuisine. >Filipino Have you ever even had it, or did you just watch the carbonara video?
>>7010267 >Look at the flyovers making fake chemical "parmesan" and when you call them out on this, it's "butthurt economic protectionism pushed by eurolards" Conveniently leaving out all the great domestic cheese produced here
>Same with the horrid "blush chablis" being made in california. Conveniently leaving out all the great wine made in California
>having standards is considered anti-American in much of this country >Actual good quality cheese and wine, let alone organic and heirloom vegetables, are considered treasonous terms >God forbid anyone want high quality food, if you love this country you will eat your HFCS slop and you will like it! Or go back to africa! I have literally never heard any of these things in my entire life. Are you trolling, or have dank memes rotted out your brain this badly?
>>7010290 Nobody is denying good food exist buddy, there are tiers to everything. The usa is huge. This makes its overall quality is garbage. When 3 companies produce 89% of the food the 11% thats made up of 10000 small buisneses dont impact overall perception
>>7010285 You want me to be more specific? Fine. Most of it has this weird watered down quality to it, even the things that aren't soups or stews. Like, British food is kind of bland because it's under-seasoned, but the fundamental ingredients are good, flavorful things. Russian food is a purely functional calorie delivery system, just something you force down your throat to keep yourself from dying. Furthermore, there seems to be this general lack of understanding of how to make food taste good, like there's something most other cultures have that most Russians aren't born with. It reminds me of hearing people on /r9k/ talk about social interaction. Maybe it's just a lack of caring. Life sucks and it's never going to get better, so why bother enjoying anything? It's a bleak, depressing, overly cabbage-y reflection of Life in Mother Russia.
Maybe there are diaspora communities that do this kind of food well, but fuck the food in St. Petersburg.
>>7010290 >Conveniently leaving out all the great domestic cheese produced here If by "here" you mean the northeast or northern california, but you wouldn't know those cheeses existed if you listen to the wisconsin cheese internet defense force
>Conveniently leaving out all the great wine made in California I never said "blush chablis" was the only wine from california, it was just an example of something where dumb ass flyovers with broken taste buds completely overlook the quality issue and fly off the handle about "economic protectionism"
In any case, the stuff in question comes from the central valley, which is basically to wine what wisconsin is to cheese.
>>7010609 >>7010609 I would pretty much go with this. Africa has nothing to offer, Scandinavia is pretty low tier, as is most of Eastern Europe. But having travelled a bit and having to narrow it down, I would say the Baltic states are the worst!
>>7010637 >w-we're part of new england guys! please? No. New England cheese has characteristics that you people erroneously consider to be a manufacturing defect, such as visible veins of blue mold, bloomy rinds, and crystals. Wisconsin "cheese" cannot legally be called cheese so they call it "cheese food" instead.
Please stop damaging the reputation of America. Yes, we get it, at least you're not the south.
>>7010637 America is getting there but they are not up to Euro standards yet. Ok Europe has years of experience behind them But America just copies European cheese and cannot compete. Having said that, America could attempt to make a cheese of their own, there is nothing stopping them!
>>7010659 >Wisconsin "cheese" cannot legally be called cheese so they call it "cheese food" instead. Does Kraft even have a factory in Wisconsin? I think most process cheese comes from California along with most milk but the majority of actual cheese from america is made in Wisconsin
>>7010667 >But America just copies European cheese This is a silly thing to say because american and european farmers are descended from the exact same people. Its ridiculous to consider one group to have more of a right to these long held styles
>>7010683 Who cares? Every year I get a fruit and cheese gift basket from one of my clients who is trying to butter me up and get free shit. I don't even remember the brand but it's full of "real wisconsin cheese food" like in this picture >>7010659
If that's your idea of excellent cheese, it's sad. If you think that's on the same level as jasper hill or consider bardswell or some other new england cheese makers, your mouth is broken.
>>7010743 No, you have to boil a diary before serving. Otherwise the pages get stuck in your throat.
>>7008894 This thread was never about food, it was just a shitposting thread so people can attack other countries food away from /int/ so no flags in order for the shitposter to get shitposted against.
/ck/ seems to be full of this sort of crap. It's an awful board.
>>7010772 Wisconsin makes a fucking lot of cheese of all sorts of different styles and quality.
The fact is they make most of america's best cheese and most of its mediocre cheese too, so just because you have an anecdote about having a mediocre cheese from there once does not make their ridiculous amount of top tier cheese worse
>>7010774 Pizza is very american and almost all of the worlds best beer is american, if you say america can't claim beer, no one besides the Mesopotamians who invented agriculture in order to ferment grain can
as for cheese, there is plenty of great cheese in america and it is very easy to find, but good cheese has a significantly larger marketshare in europe
>>7010806 Don't bother arguing with him. I've already given up. He'll pretend Bud Light is the only American beer in existence and will ignore any evidence to the contrary, like he did with the cheese. Just be glad you don't have such a pathetic, fragile little ego.
>>7010788 I have literally a lifetime of experience eating cheese on a regular basis in every part of the US except the south, alaska, and hawaii. Including in wisconsin itself. The fruit and cheese box thing was just an example.
I like it how in these threads the WIDF can never even once justify their "best cheese in the UNIVERSE!!~~!ONE" with examples. It's always some vague thing because "well you probably wouldn't be able to get it anyway"
Well newsflash buddy: 1. If no one outside of wisconsin has heard of it, it doesn't exist 2. It doesn't exist anyway, because you're just copy/pasting lines from your cheese industry brochure 3. Even if it did exist, how would you know? Your taste buds are broken 4. Wisconsin cheese is shit 5. tl;dr Wisconsin cheese is shit
>>7010806 No Britain does such a wide variety of beers, it would blow America into the weeds, Belgium does good beer too! Lager beers are also good in Germany and Czech Republic but like I said before America is catching up on the Beer front but not quite there yet!
>>7010832 >Britain does such a wide variety of beers, it would blow America into the weeds, What? America has a much wider variety of beer, by far the widest selection of good beer in the world. I was just in London in May and they are finally starting to catch up but they are still many years behind.
Belgium is the only real good beer producer in Europe, as long as you like trappist or sour beers.
and sure, Germany/Czech make some ok lager, but thats not really saying much, pretty much every western country has figured out how to do that, there are literally thousands of breweries in america making lager as good as you find in central europe while also making other better styles
>>7010843 >I was just in London in May and they are finally starting to catch up but they are still many years behind. You are having a laugh right? Every grade of beer from lagers through to Barley wines has been brewed in Britain for centuries. 6/10 for getting me to reply!
I would like to think that American Lager competes in Europe (their other beers never even make it to the pumps here) . . .the only American beer that sells in Europe is Budweiser and that's a copy of a Czech beer anyway!
>>7010850 >If that is what you clappyfats consider to be your best cheese It's a style of mass-produced cheese, roughly comparable in quality to what Wisconsin thinks of as "excellent cheese" because it's made from pretty much real milk as opposed to who knows what. You can always tell a wisconsin cheese shill because they put unnecessary qualifiers like "real" in front of their food, as if the default state is for food to be fake, which, for them, is probably true.
Here's a site with some good cheese from the US (you'll notice most of them are from the NE or california)
Just because there was one guy brewing it there once does not give England claim to it. America has been the one creating and popularizing good beer for a couple decades now. Most of america's good breweries do not export because they can't keep up with local demand, but there were plenty of american craft beers in London, they were about as easy to find as good local beer there (but this says more about the lack of good beer in europe than anything else). But it definitely felt like they were starting to catch on. American craft brewers were booming in popularity and American style local startups there are slowly becoming common
Also, please remember that Inbev is not an american company, it is Belgian, so america cannot be blamed for Bud
>>7010876 I like how you constantly try and associate shit tier California cheese with New England, when almost all California cheese is terrible process cheese or at best Monterrey Jack. Which is really said when you consider how fucking huge California is and the fact that they have more dairy cows than any other state. You would think with all that dairy production there they would be able to compete with much smaller northern states
>>7010897 >shitposting Because I don't agree that your horrid fake cheese is the best thing ever?
Give me a break.
McDonalds is going down. Twinkies were discontinued. Cheap adjunct lagers are headed for extinction. And America is waking up to the fact that Wisconsin cheese isn't actually good, despite being bukkaked with ad copy to the contrary for generations.
You'll either fix your industry or you'll become obsolete. It's the free market at work, and it's a wonderful thing to see.
>>7010900 Nah, I don't buy BC because it is so ridiculously priced. I don't buy based on who owns the beer, but its still kind of important to know what you are buying. The only thing that gets me is how Bud spends millions of dollars marketing itself as though drinking it makes you more american when if fact the exact opposite is true
>>7010887 >America has been the one creating and popularizing good beer for a couple decades now. In your mind it was real!
>Most of america's good breweries do not export because they can't keep up with local demand, Please . . .. for crying out loud . .. . Stop! You have a country of over a third of a billion people, yet you still claim a handful of microbreweries in Wisconsin are more representative than the rest of the USA when it comes to beer. Britain has brewed finer ales for centuries and if you scale it as you are doing then two guys in remote Dorset brew better beer than the rest of England?
Come on . . .grow a pair and own up . . .you can't do beer or cheese, or wine, or original cuisine for that matter!
>>7010920 Every single thread you say California is good just because Humboldt fog. California is a massive state, they better fucking have one or two places making good cheese to balance out all the Kraft singles and skim milk California is churning out
Its funny though that this "Wisconsin doesn't make any good cheese, you need to be close to a coast to do that" meme is literally just one guy who goes and brings it up in as many unrelated threads as possible. Literally nothing of this meme has reached anywhere else on the internet or in the real world though you act as though its some movement
>>7010925 >But I am genuinely curious as to whether you are just making things up to troll or if you actually believe this stuff I legitimately believe that residents of Wisconsin are completely delusional about their relevance and the quality of their cheese, if that's what you're asking.
Additionally, I find it slightly disappointing when the producers of the worst cheese in America attempt to speak on behalf of our entire country. I don't really care all that much what Britbongs think of cheese from America, because the last thing I want is for us to start exporting it en masse and driving up prices, but when you look at stuff like this guy's post >>7010925 you can see that you're creating strange, distorted impressions of America for those who don't know much about this place.
>>7010934 >Every single thread you say California is good just because Humboldt fog.
I've mentioned Mt. Tam as well. That's another cheese that is nearly ubiquitous, and one of the first things people think of when you say California cheese. Unlike Wisconsin where people think of generic blocks of industrial junk.
Post ONE good Wisconsin cheese I can get anywhere in America. Just ONE. I've asked you this before, multiple times, and you always mumble something about not knowing what things are like outside of Wisconsin yadda yadda it really exists you just won't name it please believe me ;_;
This shouldn't be hard. Call your boss at WIDF headquarters, maybe they can help you.
>>7010939 Talk about distorted take a look at this >>7010943 I have been to America twice, admittedly, as a tourist not as a gastronomic journalist but I bet Anti-Europeans have not ventured foot outside of their state.
>>7010966 No, what makes it a good cheese is being a good cheese. And it also happens to contribute to a high reputation for California cheese, a reputation not shared by Wisconsin, other than in Wisconsin itself, and the kind of people who still eat at McDonalds, drink Bud Light, and think kale and avocados are exotic memefoods.
>>7010964 All of those states (and a bunch more unlisted ones) have more top ranked beers than Britain http://www.beeradvocate.com/lists/top/
This isn't really a matter of opinion, almost all of the world's top brewers are currently in america. I don't think London is too far from having a small handful of competitive brewers, they are way ahead of most of the rest or europe besides Belgium, but still many years behind america
>>7010982 >contribute to a high reputation for California cheese, according to literally only you
I don't deal in anecdotes, find any other source that has a similar opinion to you, you can't just name a cheese you do or don't like and claim it is indicative of a place. If you are seriously going to argue that your opinion is an actual thing that other people have, show us
>>7011036 >I never even bother to click on your link btw. But I am guessing it's a bit like the 'World Series' where only America competes.(so they always win) I literally cannot fathom being such a coward that you can't click on a single fucking link in case it proves you wrong.
>>7011045 It's a difficult one this because I drink mainly real ales and Bitters and I know they aren't really popular outside the UK so If I mention some commercial beers, such as John Smiths or Boddingtons . . .would that help at all? As regards American beers sold in Britain, there are not very many Budweiser is about the only one. Coors lite is advertised heavily on TV with Jon Claude Van Damme but Brits don't drink 'lite beers' . . . .although I do recall a beer called Colt 45 which was sold here years ago but it tasted of glue and bananas!
The most common Lagers are Fosters (aussies will be spitting bricks at that) and Stella Artois (Belgian) closely followed by Carlsburg.
>>7011136 I saw Brooklyn Brewery fucking everywhere in London, which was kind of surprising as they aren't even that good amongst american craft brewers. I stopped by a good beer focused liquor store to try a bunch of local stuff while I was there and they had a lot of american stuff (but its crazy how expensive beer is there, they were selling single bottles for the equivalent of ~$5 for what would go as a $8 6 pack here). Founders was the best American one I remember seeing there, but I didn't look too closely at what American ones were available. The guys working there told be about how craft beer has really been exploding there for the last 5 years but they thought they were still at least 5 years behind america.
Colt 45 is something only very poor people drink in America, I have never actually tried it myself
Also, as for you not trusting BA, they definitely aren't perfect, but I do not think it is a plausible argument that they overrate american beer, americans fucking love drinking foreign beer, BA definitely overrated Belgians and German beer for example.
>>7011143 Pizza as the modern world knows it was invented by Italian immigrants in america. Very roughly based on traditional Italian recipes, but America is really responsible for its modern form and for popularizing it
>>7000521 some is good some is garbage, but you could say that for most cuisines. pancit, lumpia and lechon lechon are good. what ever the blood sauce and the tripe soup are is nasty. source: waifu is Flip and her mom exclusively makes Flip food when we visit
>>7011162 I have never heard of Founders or Brooklyn Brewery. And Colt 45 Was something I remember from the early 1980's .
Listen London is not at all representative of England, it's a tourist trap. I recall speaking to a Japanese guy on an RPG and he told me (in broken English) that he was looking forward to having a weeks holiday in London to learn about British culture??? . . .My heart sank and I nearly cried as I told him that you can find every culture under the sun in London but not English . . . . .surely you must have noticed that as well?
We have people like you in the states, they legitimately believe that cities are unamerican
As an outsider, who works for a company that does business with companies in the UK all the time, allow me to inform you that London is the only thing that matters, London is synonymous with Britain to us, and I find it funny when I say "let's meet at such-and-such london time" and it's the 1 in 1000 people who live elsewhere and they get butthurt and say they're in Buttfuck-on-River.
Also whenever this happens I know the meeting is going to be a clusterfuck because their internet will keep shitting itself and everyone else on the call will have to banter while that person reconnects.
>>7011205 Nobody does, it's just that in normal countries we simply call it beer. Only Americans have to invent some super special little snowflake name up for when you finally made a couple of beers deemed drinkable.
Which is actually half the number of breweries in the USA, so America 300 million and 3,000 breweries, UK 64 million and 1,400 breweries Go Britain. But I'm sure you won't let facts get in the way of your shitposting, you are American after all.
>>7011341 >in normal countries we simply call it beer. No, no you don't
The best selling beer in every one of your countries is terrible
Only belgium was really making a significant quality of good beer before the craft beer boom began in america. Luckily for us all the trend is starting to spread through the anglosphere and northern europe, but you guys still have a long way to come
>>7011352 To be fair, the vast majority of those english breweries are not making quality product, usually just one or two weak ales, they just do not have the quality spirit that is embodied by amrican style craft beer (though a few of them are starting to. My favorite beer I tried there was from a brewery called "Wild Weather Ales")
>>7011435 People who know more than myself sem to agree it is the best in europe, I am gonna trust them over you.
and of course of european beer I have tried the Belgian stuff has been by far the best, with the british stuff second, and Irish 3rd (though I have not tried any scandanavian beers and I hear they are starting to make some good stuff). All the central european stuff I have tried was incredibly mediocre
>>7011440 >People who know more than myself sem to agree it is the best in europe I'm not interested in some bloated faggots opinion. I want to hear your opinion. I want to know about your experiences, about your tastes.
Professional critics are the roaches of the culinary world.
>>7011277 >I will try to track down some Californian cheese Just be careful about that, America isn't Europe and we don't believe in AOC laws to help consumers know what they're getting. Instead it's on the individual to autistically track every single brand and product ever sold. So you can't really say "California cheese is good" any more than you can say "California wine is good". Some of it is great, and some of it is shit.
The Monterey Jack cheese you complained about originated in California, just for some perspective.
The Humboldt Fog stuff mentioned in this thread (and others) is pretty good, it's common enough here that maybe you could find it in Europe. You want to eat it when it's fairly ripe, if possible. The part under the rind should be fairly melted, even at fridge temperature. If it's solid and crumbly all the way through, it was cut too soon.
>remember to avoid anything originating in Wisconsin. This part is fine. At its best, Wisconsin cheese is inoffensive bland nothingness. At its worst, it's inedible trash.
>>7011682 >implying you should ever go off just a placename when buying a product
Place designations in european law only encourage shitty quality, they allow corporations to coast off of the name people built long ago fucking over competitors in any other regions. As in all cases, anti-competition laws only favor entrenched corporations at the expense of both consumers and all other companies, the exact antithesis of capitalism
>>7011682 >This part is fine. At its best, Wisconsin cheese is inoffensive bland nothingness. At its worst, it's inedible trash. You're an idiot. The only American cheese imported into France is from Wisconsin. There are plenty of great cheesemakers in Wisconsin
>>7011743 Not even close to true. We've been the nation's third-most dairy-producing state for decades, far behind California, and speaking specifically of cheese, we're behind five others, including Vermont.
>>7011743 >brokenrecordnoises.mp3 >>7011737 It works both ways. A region can afford one or two shitty producers leeching off the rest but not a broad decline in standards. It is in the collective (try to contain your butthurt over this word) interest to maintain standards.
For example, when the chianti region became synonymous with shit wine, prices went down and picky buyers went for other stuff. The value of the geographic designation was damaged so badly that some producers stopped using the name, hence why super tuscans became a thing.
>>7011763 >third-most dairy-producing state for decades, far behind California, and speaking specifically of cheese, we're behind five others, including Vermont. This is not true. Wisconsin is second in dairy thanks to California's massive factory farms for skim milk and process cheese (and California is a much larger place), but Wisconsin is and has been for a very long time number one in real cheese production
>>7011765 The fact is, quality has nothing to do with where something is made. Place designation laws never result in a better product (why would they?). There is absolutely no benefit to anyone other than entrenched corporations with these laws
>>7011793 >quality has nothing to do with where something is made A product doesn't automatically get AOC status just from being physically made in a certain location. It has to pass certain quality and style standards. Whether these standards are high, or even particularly specific, is up to the region. The ones that do a good job of this get a good reputation and can command a high price. The ones that don't, don't. >There is absolutely no benefit to anyone other than entrenched corporations with these laws There is a major benefit to the consumer, because the consumer can make reasonable inferences about what the product is going to taste like without having purchased it before.
>>7011830 >It has to pass certain quality and style standards. Thats another issue altogether. It is logical to require products marketed as something to meet that category's quality specification, this has nothing to do with where something is made. The quality of of a product should be all that really matters
>>7011831 >ideology You're the one being ideological here. Your irrational free market fundamentalism tells you that the free market will magically work everything out if manufacturers can lie and sell garbage masquerading as something else.
Sure, in the long run word gets around. But meanwhile a lot of people end up consuming garbage. This turns markets into a zero-sum game.
Believing it's good to know what you're getting when you buy something is straight up a good thing. I am amazed that anyone could argue against this.
>>7011830 >There is a major benefit to the consumer, because the consumer can make reasonable inferences about what the product is going to taste like without having purchased it before. This just isn't true. A consumer should not be tricked into thinking an item is better if it is from a specific reason. You cannot make a reasonable inference about a product just knowing where it was made, these are simply a way of tricking consumers into buying from corporations which have a strong enough position in the market to lobby the EU at the expense of everyone else
>>7011843 >You're the one being ideological here If caring about quality over location is an ideology, yeah, I have that
>Believing it's good to know what you're getting when you buy something is straight up a good thing Yeah, but where something is made tells you literally nothing about what you are getting. People should definitely know what they are getting, a free market only works optimally when people are educated. Tricking consumers into thinking corporations who own plots of land in the correct area make better products serves no one but these corporations. Quality standards should be all that matter
>>7011837 >Thats another issue altogether. No, not really. >The quality of of a product should be all that really matters How do you propose that people guess the quality without some kind of system? Amazon reviews? >>7011844 >You cannot make a reasonable inference about a product just knowing where it was made That's why you go by an AOC-like labeling system, where the geographic origins of the product are insufficient to qualify without further characteristics related to quality and style.
You can keep on repeating that it's all about the GPS coordinates of the vineyard, but that doesn't make it true.
>>7011858 >How do you propose that people guess the quality without some kind of system?
I am not saying no system should exist. I am saying Attaching place designations to any such system is anti-consumer and anti-competitive. When you kill competition through regulation not related to quality you always end up with an inferior product >Amazon reviews? I know you are joking, but these work very well, the internet allows us to crowd source all sorts of data collection which very much works to the consumer's advantage in a way no government program can really accomplish
>>7011858 >where the geographic origins of the product are insufficient to qualify without further characteristics related to quality and style. But why advocate using the location at all rather than just using quality and style specifications?
>>7011852 >If caring about quality over location is an ideology, yeah, I have that You don't care about quality. You care about your extremist free-market fantasy of a world where people can magically infer the contents of an arbitrarily labeled bottle through Yelp reviews and the rumor mill. >a free market only works optimally when people are educated And what exactly would they be "educated" about, if there are no objective facts to base decisions on? One day chianti is a dry wine made from chardonnay, the next it's a sweet sparkling pink wine made from zinfandel and concord grapes. Who cares, right? I mean if it really mattered consumers would revolt. Muh free market!!
>>7011867 >I know you are joking, but these work very well A friend of mine wrote amazon reviews for a job shortly after graduation. He's living honestly now but you should really be more skeptical of what you read on the internet. >>7011872 >But why advocate using the location at all rather than just using quality and style specifications? When the style of the food is closely tied to geography due to terroir or tradition or both, it makes sense because there is already an established reputation.
>>7011881 >When the style of the food is closely tied to geography due to terroir or tradition or both, it makes sense because there is already an established reputation. So what about in the very common case where experts at making a product moved to america 150 years ago. Now people in the region they were originally from claim only they should be able to use the style's name for marketing and the descendants of the true artisans can no longer use it?
Unless you own a patent or trademark on something, you should not be able to prevent people making a qualitatively equivalent product from selling it as what it is just because the corporation you work for has better government connections
>>7011920 >but most of these styles are very old Hence why it's logical to make a system where the product has to conform to the standards of the style in order to use the name.
>such farmers have formed a large diaspora Not sure what you're getting at here. You're arguing that if I'm descended from a guy who raised cows in a certain part of Europe, I should be able to slap the name of an AOC cheese from that part of Europe on any old dairy product I wish to sell, regardless of any resemblance or lack thereof?
>>7011918 If you can qualitatively demonstrate that a product cannot be recreated in any other region, then it is definitely a fair thing to designate.
As mentioned before though, this comes down to quality, it is completely logical to have a trade organization that only approves items that are qualitatively similar. If your product is actually sensitive to terroir (almost none of them are) they will be different, and you still wouldn't need the place designation as the quality designation would be sufficient
>>7011933 >a system where the product has to conform to the standards I literally keep saying this is reasonable and you act as though I am not saying that
>Not sure what you're getting at here If you make a product, and then move and continue to make the same product, there is no reason you should not be able to call it by the style that it is >regardless of any resemblance or lack thereof Where do you get this from? I am clearly saying that its resemblance to the style is all that matters, not where it is made
>>7011969 >meant to protect some anonymous guy These laws were clearly designed by and for the european agrocorporations \. the same people who have lobbied european governments into banning GMO crops. Its entirely a way to attack products made by other companies in other areas and has nothing to do with quality
>>7011985 >the same people who have lobbied european governments into banning GMO crops Sounds like they have the right idea. >Its entirely a way to attack products made by other companies in other areas and has nothing to do with quality Europeans don't want starlink corn in their food. I don't blame them.
>>7011991 >I think you'll find such cases are so rare as to be irrelevant. Maybe with wine (though I doubt it), but with cheese it is incredibly common.There is no cheese that can only be made in one location, an even moderately talented cheesemaker can replicate pretty much any style with sufficient education
>>7012033 sometimes maybe, but there are a lot of cheesemakers in america and even in non-politically connected parts of europe that have been making cheese of various styles for generations which only in recent times the EU has tried to steal the name away from them to give it to their cronies in whatever corporation controls most of the land in the designated area
>>7012042 Any time you have rules, there are going to be cases where the rules result in things you didn't intend.
Not everyone is going to be happy, but I'd rather have some guy in transdnistria getting butthurt that his feta isn't recognized by the EU, than having the Cheese Corporation of Greater Wisconsin pushing fake Robila due latti in counterfeit packaging sold at full price and I don't even discover it until I get home because ron paul said it was how we fight the commies.
>>7012088 >When what it qualitatively is is the natural outcome of geography and human history in the region, When is this ever the case with cheese?
If you can blindly put two products side by side and say they are the same type of product, it simply should not matter if one is from a politically connected region.
Please do not forget that america was settled by the very people who created these traditions, so its ridiculous and arbitrary to say one subset of their descendants can claim the tradition while others that chose to live in a nicer place cannot. Not only that but these laws say Mohamed who moves to the correct part of Europe to escape turmoil in his homeland and knows nothing of cheesemaking can now make this cheese while a family farm in Wisconsin that has been making a top tier form of this cheese for generations cannot just because the EU wants to fuck over american producers
No one outside the US cares which identikit state has the most muh microcheeseries, because at the end of the day literally anyone would choose literally any European country from which to buy their cheese before resorting to America
Honestly I suspect places like New England and California probably have lots of good cheeses. I know they have at least a few because I've tried them. But honestly, all the butthurt from people who consider pasteurised mass-produced cheese to be 'gourmet' and the resultant shit-flinging and trolling has left me wanting to just bin the lot of it
Mods, can we please have flags so we can instantly disregard posts written by American without wasting valuable time reading them?
>>7012171 >consider pasteurised mass-produced cheese to be 'gourmet Where did anyone even suggest this?
>No one outside the US cares which identikit state has the most muh microcheeseries, because at the end of the day literally anyone would choose literally any European country from which to buy their cheese before resorting to America
Well htis obviiously isn't the case because it is the EU trying desperately to prevent america farmers from selling their cheese in europe. They obviously wouldn't be putting so much effort into this if your statement was accurate. Its the exact same thing Putin is doing in Russia with regard to both european and American products
>>7012197 >Well htis obviiously isn't the case because it is the EU trying desperately to prevent america farmers from selling their cheese in europe. They obviously wouldn't be putting so much effort into this if your statement was accurate. Its the exact same thing Putin is doing in Russia with regard to both european and American products
The issue is to do with Americans calling their inferior generic products things like 'Gorgonzola', 'Camembert', 'Gruyere' etc, which in the EU are protected names. If a cheese falls under the protected designation of origin legislation, you can only legally produce and sell it within the EU if it meets some basic qualifications, usually based on geography and method of production. There's no witch hunt against American cheeses going on here, it's just basic EU law, The US would be welcome to sell their shitty cheeses here if they re-branded them as imitation products rather than the real thing
>>7012322 Yeah, the EU didn't make these laws to prevent competitors from other regions from making better stuff, these laws just naturally arose with no motive whatsoever.
You also act as though these laws are not modern developments > if they re-branded them as imitation products rather than the real thing
Thats the thing though, they are just as much the real thing as ones made in europe. No one is saying they should be able to sell other kinds of cheese as something they are not, but there is nothing special about any of these styles that requires them to be made in a specific place. They all have been replicated in america and probably elsewhere in europe too
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