Genuine criticisms of korrasami
criticisms will be assembled and put onto a website.
>in b4 korrasami shippers
>in b4 shitposting
>in b4 korrasami shippers
>in b4 shitposting
It's like you don't even WANT Korrathread #34434
>Fictional Bi/Les couple
The 'mainsteam' media doesn't need to spin anything, there are more than enough retards spouting shit.
There may be actual criticisms of korrasami but it will be lost in the mountain of crap by the (latent homosexual) /pol/, stormfront and gamergaters.
If masturbation pisses you off, you're definitely taking this too seriously.
>it is being hailed as a masterpiece
Not really. There's 3 blog posts of notorious Korrafags and that's about it.
I totally expected Korrasami to happen, and it happened pretty much how I expected it to (not really how I wanted it to).
It's there, but it's put there in a way to be JUST NOT SPELLED OUT ENOUGH to let homophobes who like the show plug their ears and close their eyes and pretend it didn't happen, or pretend it's all in the minds of people who just WANT to see it.
Let's be dead honest here folks. This is twenty fucking fourteen, and they knew exactly what they were doing here. The reason it is not spelled out more blatantly is essentially to sidestep controversy and be able to play coy that 'what, you're offended by the last scene? But they're just friends going on a trip to the spirit world' and then 5 years later when no one gives a shit about it being 'current' anymore Bryke or someone is going to go 'yeah that was totally intentional, we always meant Korra to be bisexual' or something and since it'll just be some creator making a statement about a half-decade old tv show there won't be a huge backlash from shitheads like there would be if Nickelodeon greenlit an actual developed on screen relationship between two women that ended the series on a kiss.
It hurts the show, but they probably couldn't do it any other way.
You realize you're playing against yourself?
You should make something for genuine criticism of the show in general, otherwise *of course* it's going to be spinned as homophobic, if you focus only on 15 seconds of lesbos holding hands because of "bad writing" when it's pretty much up to par with the writing on this show in general.
Basically if you complain about Korrasami because of bad writing, then complain about the show in general. Otherwise you're just complaining about it because it's not your OTP or because you didn't like *why* they did it, not how they did it. That or you don't like lesbos.
It's really stupid to focus on that part and then claim it's just about the bad writing. There's been bad writing at various points in this show and I didn't see you dedicate a website to those.
I my superior told me that he was going to fireme for always slaking on the computer while at work
played the he's doing this because he has homophobia card at HR and now he's under 2 months disciplinary probation and rumor has it that he's gonna quit next week and im the next line for his job
>he reason it is not spelled out more blatantly is essentially to sidestep controversy and be able to play coy that 'what, you're offended by the last scene? But they're just friends going on a trip to the spirit world' and then 5 years later when no one gives a shit about it being 'current' anymore Bryke or someone is going to go 'yeah that was totally intentional, we always meant Korra to be bisexual' or something
Both creators confirmed already anon.
I also think a kiss would have felt stunted, they're not there yet.
survival of the fitest
told them that he was constantly shiting on me because i once told him that i was gay also told them that if they didnt do something then i'd go online or sue the company
Im not even gay kek
fair enough, but it's still not as matter-of-fact as Korra and Mako's relationship for the reasons I stated. It was basically done to keep shade from flying Nickelodeon's way.
>survival of the fitest
Pretty much the opposite of that, actually.
You're getting someone who's actually useful fired because you're a lazy bum. I hope it comes back to bite you in the ass when they realize they promoted an incompetent fake homo.
Your boss probably wont have any problems finding a new job, you, classified as an incompetent lazy liar, might struggle.
>I'm not even gay
No shit Sherlock.
It's painfully obvious that it was done more as a social/political statement and less as something that actually made a lot of sense in the story. Asami was originally supposed to be a traitor, you know?
Throughout the series they were apparently too afraid to push for it, so the end result is that it's something very sudden in the end that doesn't make for a cohesive romantic plot.
And besides all that, even socially speaking, I think when you analyze it you'll realize it does more harm than good. There seem to be more meaningful lesbian couples in media than there are platonic female friends. It further skews public opinion in a stereotypical direction and just causes more problems. We've seen to have gotten to a point where we see romance and sex as the ultimate form of affection between two people and I think that's a primitive way to look at relationships.
>I also think a kiss would have felt stunted, they're not there yet.
well, yes, because they didn't show it.
The show would be better, as a show, if through the last season at least they showed and developed Korra and Asami's relationship as a thing that was happening, and led up to that moment.
>Your boss probably wont have any problems finding a new job
>reputation has already damaged by being a bigot and a homophobe
>formerly the life of the party now friends are already starting to treat him as an outcast
>he was also having some family troubles
>now even r9k would be more popular than him
I'll give him 3 weeks before he bites the bullet
never shit where you eat anon
>It further skews public opinion in a stereotypical direction and just causes more problems.
Speaking of this, I hated how it stereotypes Korra. I thought she was a great example of a female character who could be strong, hotheaded, capable and true to herself regardless of stereotypical perceptions of feminity without being instantly called a lesbian for that.
But we know how it ended.
ehh. That's kind of how I felt about Renee Montoya as well, but I don't know how well it holds up as an argument nowadays. There are positive female characters in fiction, the fact that there aren't as many of them as males doesn't mean there shouldn't be positive gay female characters while we build up a quota of straight ones.
I thought I saved the large version, now I don't even remember where I found it. Hm.
Presumably he intends to Chuck and Larry his way through life.
>Inconsequential one minute scene that changes nothing from before, displaces nothing important and was practically just thrown in
>four thousand post threads and at least one bump limit thread everyday since
The ending isn't any worse than the majority of Korra's writing. It's intended audience loved it, why the fuck would you give them the controversy they were looking for by taking the bait?
The staff waited until the actual last second to show any hint of something tangible and then went on the social media and said "you saw a display of affection and didn't immediately understand that they are gay lovers? Bigots!" As if Platonic love doesn't exist.
The problem with Korrasami is the actual interaction between the two characters. There was never anything that could clearly be taken as romantic, nothing that really fueled the idea that a sexual attraction was growing between these two characters who were presumed to be heterosexual. Now I know what you might be thinking, "assuming they're heterosexual is ignorant", and I might agree with you if it were not for actually having watched the show. Bryke wants us to simply buy that Korra (the girl who was in a relationship with Mako, and never showed romantic attraction to any other character throughout the entire series) and Asami (the girl who was so sexually attracted to Mako that she not only funded his pro-bending team, but tried to 'snatch' him up, a second time mind you, right when she found out that he was no longer in a relationship with Korra) are bisexual with no story build-up or reasoning. The only reason this has been allowed (and fucking praised as a matter of fact) is because it is 'ground-breaking' and 'revolutionary', not because it is masterful storytelling.
People are arguing that this happens all the time in real life, that people 'discover' their bisexuality at the strangest of times, and i'm not ignorant enough to assume that this statement isn't 100% true, but that doesn't make for good storytelling, not by a long shot. I'd be less critical if there was going to be another season or another episode where these two characters could explain how they came to this conclusion, and therefore accurately portray bisexuals and put into context that ending, but this is the finale of the franchise. It's bad writing, and terrible execution. When you have to come out and tell people what you intended the ending to be, it's not a good ending. There is a Roger Ebert quote about that floating around, but I don't remember it.
It annoys me slightly in that the implication is that sexuality is completely fluid.
On a side note, what's to become of Mako? It probably tortures him to be around them now, 2 mistakes that both have returned to haunt him.
Every time I feel a bit bad about celebrating Korrasami, because maybe it's rubbing salt in the wounds of the alternative shippers, a thread like this pops up to make it clear that the salt is coming from inside the wounds on this one.
I wasn't particularly expecting it, but when we came to that point with her father trying to get her to join him I was like 'oh geez do we have to do THIS' and then they didn't and I was like 'well that's okay then'
Which is a decent fakeout,but they seemed to not really have an idea of what to do with Asami after that aside from make her into Batman. Which Bat-Asami is also fine, but it helps to show that they were flying by the seat of their pants making this show.
I don't entirely disagree, but the signs are there. They're all just 'blink and you'd miss it' things like the scene at the end of Book 3. Which, I will also agree, can in fact be easily interpreted as Asami taking care of a close friend who needs her help. It would have been a good place to START showing them having a romantic relationship, but everything that followed (for instance, the fact that Korra was writing to Asami and the fact that she seemed much more comfortable around Asami than any of her other friends) was clearly done with the intention of encrypting it in a way which means you could easily consider it to be just indicative of a friendship. And that hurts the narrative.
I searched the Korrasami tags on tumblr
I just want cute lesbians, I don't want people's "personal stories."
You sir are right on the money
It's odd, a couple of weeks ago Gotham mid season revelation was lesbians which I was 100% fine with as it had been established during the show that one char was gay and the other was bi and both had a previous relationship.
The one in Korra although there were the very slightest of hints they never felt tangible enough to acknowledge as anything other than absolute friendship. Especially considering how other relationships were handled involving both characters in the past.
It is the finality of it all, it kinda leaves me not really knowing who Korra or Asami actually are. They were developed as one thing and in the space of a few seconds a whole other facet to their character was exposed in as blunt a fashion as possible. It was very jarring and surreal.
>they're gay because the creator said their close friendship meant they were gay
That just opens the floodgates for any show's staff to retroactively say that the pair of close platonic friends (girls, dudes in a bromance) are gay to get extra press (which is probably why Bryke did it since they spent half the show getting Korra and Asami tangled up in clumsily done hetero shipping bs).
It's despicable and kind of cowardly what Bryke did. Though it'll probably be a year or so until the SJWs realize they've been taken for a ride.
> My dad's dead. I feel so vulnerable
> Lick my bean you fire nation cunt
well looks like it's time to abandon this thread. It's starting to get to be every other post is tripping my filters.
>Though it'll probably be a year or so until the SJWs realize they've been taken for a ride.
I think a lot of them don't care in the first place, by which I mean they tend to come out of the woodwork when something pleases them. Their numbers swell and they spread their opinion everywhere like gospel. I doubt many of them even watched the show, they're just backing up people who share the same narrative.
Gotta have an opinion, even if you aren't actually invested.
My only issue with their execution of korrasami was that a lot of their interactions in seasons 3 and 4 could be taken as romantic, but only in retrospect. I took them as romantic because I shipped it, but things like Korra only writing Asami or the blush scene, or any of the other moments they had together feel very different now that they are confirmed to be a couple. The romantic tone should have been there on its own rather than because of how the show ends
here you go bro
>but that doesn't make for good storytelling, not by a long shot
If it had been two straight characters who barely interacted suddenly fucking each other, those same people that are arguing for the spontaneity of Korrasami would be crying foul.
I don't believe the "Nick woulld't allow excuse" as anything but short-sightedness, because there is a thousand ways to write a romance without coming out (lol) and saying it outright.
They had a lot of stuff in Season 3, but the problem was that there wasn't enough in Season 4.
I still liked it.
>it kinda leaves me not really knowing who Korra or Asami actually are
I really think this is the issue. It is both brilliant and despicable. Byke managed to really throw away great portions of who Korra and Asami were perceived to be (or, to be honest, who they actually were for 99% of the show), and that allows for the shipping crowd and the fanfiction crowd to go hog-wild with their interpretations of every single little thing having to do with these two. I think that's what Bryke was doing with this ending, it may be terribly handled and horribly executed, but it opens the floodgates for exactly what has been happening.
It allows for shippers to come out and say things like "well now all of their interactions were really supposed to be romantic all along", it covers up Bryke's godawful storytelling and writing. With that ending they pulled the proverbial rug out from under the fandom, and in our daze their lack of build-up doesn't seem so shitty anymore.
>but the signs are there. They're all just 'blink and you'd miss it' things like the scene at the end of Book 3.
Get off Bryke's dick, anon. There are no romantic signs whatsoever. And yes my "hetero lens" are off, Bryan.
because it was like smearing shit on the icing of a cake.
why do that to a cake, and i'm not saying korra was a good cake, it was descent, but not good, but still you shouldn't do that to cake......so yeh, don't fuck with cake.
LIKE WHAT IF KORRA AND ASAMI ARE STRAIGHT FRIENDS AND IT'S ONLY ALLUDED THAT THEY GET GAY FOR EACH OTHER LATER
No but seriously, if a guy and a girl were really close friends but no romance was brought up and everyone thought "those two should get together" and they share this moment and that's it and the creators are like "no they totally get together after this" everyone would be all "that makes total sense"
I really take issue with this comment, because this is basically just the argument of "you're homophobic", and it's bullshit. If Korra got together with Mako nobody, from a storytelling standpoint would be surprised with it. Because all of the build-up that is dedicated to showing how close Mako and Korra are, and more specifically how much Mako still cares for Korra. On the flip side of that though, nobody would be alright with Korra suddenly admitting feelings for some barely featured male character.
As a matter of fact you (shipper) and I would be sitting here on the same side of this argument, because Bryke wouldn't have their 'rainbow shield' to cover up and protect their shitty writing. Your argument is garbage, it would have been just as bad if it was some random dude, but it isn't. It's some random female character, so you enjoyed the ending.
Coupled with their obnoxious blog posts it really left a sour taste in my mouth.
Yet I still can't actively hate the show, there is enough there for me to miss it. I absolutely love the production values, the score and animation are second to none. They essentially threw it all away for a few cheap points that they never had the conviction or ability to earn.
It's a disaster for Avatar the franchise as it diminishes what it is and can be in the future. It is now aligned with a specific cause that they will find hard to shift, it is no exposed as being vapid and unreliable, and its creators are show to be gloating ungrateful spiteful gits who actively hate large parts of their audience.
>still off of work
>get a egg mcmuffin and coffee
>hop on /co/
>come into thread
>people that don't like the ending are discussing the issues with the writing and the storytelling
>people that liked the ending are asking if people saw 'x' episode or season and claiming through thinly veiled insults that people that don't like it are homophobic
Shippers are a fucking cancer.
>Implying that this isn't cancer
You douchebags are pathetic.
>No but seriously, if a guy and a girl were really close friends but no romance was brought up and everyone thought "those two should get together" and they share this moment and that's it and the creators are like "no they totally get together after this" everyone would be all "that makes total sense"
This is basically what happened between Varrick and Zhu Li. They didn't have their first romantic moment until the final season, it was entirely one sided, and 6 episodes later, they were fucking engaged to be married.
Now that I think about it, I've only seen one review not praising this ending for being a milestone in gay rights. A review that treats it like a show rather than a human rights victory.
Just so you know "But they were straifht and only lesbo at the last minute" isn't a valid criticism. Bisexual women are even less represented on TV and tend to get killed off a lot(think Sara from Arrow).
part of the reason us queers like Korrasami is that it looks a lot like real relationships we might have had when we were first exploring our sexuality. you don't have to establish characters as bi anymore than you have to establish them as straight.
You sir are right, nothing lead upto to the faggotry we saw at the end, apart from shit-tier writing and interaction between korra and asami.
Mako reconcilling with Korra would have made better sense.
>"But they were straifht and only lesbo at the last minute" isn't a valid criticism
> Bisexual women are even less represented on TV and tend to get killed off a lot(think Sara from Arrow).
What the hell? That isn't a supporting argument, those are two completely different arguments. Why is that not a valid criticism tripfag?
People are having actual arguments in this thread, making posts with content and then you come in.
Part of the problem too is that people don't really want to examine their biases so are very quick to jump on Bryke for criticising heteronormative readings of the show.
It's important to remember they did point out they kept things subtle/ambiguous but the subtext was there. They also admitted this fell short of being truly revolutionary.
But yet for a lot of queer fans(such as myself) it means the world. I just wish people would accept that instead of pulling goobergate logic on this.
>I really take issue with this comment, because this is basically just the argument of "you're homophobic", and it's bullshit
Dude, my comment agreed with yours. I didn't enjoy the ending and I did say that if Korra had hooked up with a male character she had only lightly interacted with, the Korrasamifags would be all judgmental of its abruptness.
it's not a valid argument because it's basically bi erasure and exactly the heteronormativity bryke talked about.
bi women exist and they don't always declare themselves as swuch. it's easier for them to date men before they come to terms with that.
The prophecy was foretold >>68266673
I was hoping the LBGT community would have had some unpleasant things to say about this, because I imagine there'd be plenty of them with full mental clarity to realize wha a terrible thing that last-second lesbian ending was.
a lot of people think that's a GREAT EXAMPLE of how queer characters shouild be done, i.e. nto at all in the actual narrative, so it won't "get in the way" (of course, heterosexuality seldom does, at least to the same extent).
But that's how a lot of young homosexual romance happens, because it can't be out in the open. There's a lot of, "being really close friends" and subtle courtship that, taken out of context, looks like friendliness. Then, at the end, they confess that they're gay and attracted to each other.
The giveaway was that Korra did a bunch of stuff around Asami that was OOC without seeing the ship. Since when was Korra ever shy? Since when was she one to not shout her feelings to the world? But when you realize that she's crushing, it all makes sense.
Nobody is saying bisexuals don't exist. Nobody is saying Korra and Asami should have broken the fourth wall and looked into the camera yelling that they were bisexuals. You're an idiot, your arguments are only based on you being queer and liking something that you think everyone should like because it's queer too.
You pay no mind to quality as long as you can get your representation, you make the LGBT community seem like a bunch of whiny babies living in sewers living off of what scraps the media gives them. You're a terrible poster, a shitty example of a queer person, and have no standards for quality.
Here are some posts by anons that are very well done:
As a gay man, I was pretty disappointed. Look, it just felt tacked on and half-assed (not that ANY relationship in LoK was ever terribly satisfying). It's nice getting more representation, but I'm still waiting for more gay characters that are actually written WELL. Hell, even by their own admission, they just up and decided to make it a thing cuz lol why not.
That said, it's a children's show, and introducing younger viewers to the idea that same-sex relationships are okay is nice and it's a step in the right direction.
Literally built over two books from friendship to the end point of BEGINNING a romantic relationship.
Cripes so many people bitch because they have to watch interactions to understand things rather than be told them through exposition.
As far as comics go? Bisexuality is usually just an excuse to have a gay or lesbian character without having to flat out say "they're gay."
Can't think of too many bisexual women in comics that are with a man.
>Le pretend idiot reply
The difference is the 2 characters were together from the first time we saw them to the last. Granted it was a rapid development to have it all come out in the finale but they had years together, every single day with zhu li doing far more for varrick than asami ever did for korra.
shippers......one of my top ten most hated things
Yes you did, and I apologize for being a fucking idiot. It's very early and i'm still not completely alert. I can't remember if I was responding to someone else, or if I really just read your comment as saying that if it was two straight characters that I wouldn't be angry.
Whatever the case I was wrong, and I agree with your comment completely now that I went back and read it after having had breakfast. My bad.
I don't care how much sense does it make. It is apparently accepted that protagonist must get with someone else from main cast, and I wouldn't want Korra to get with Mako and Bolin.
I don't care how much sense does it make, because Asami was the most sympathetic of the cast. After all, it's fiction. And it was the last scene, so unlike all the other bullshit, it will affect nothing in the future.
>"I wish a homophobe would"
I'm from San Francisco, as a matter of fact live in the Haight. Whoever made that original post is probably some fifteen year old yuri shipping girl, because nobody around here even notices homos.
We have, ZhuXVarrick is shit too and also came out of fucking nowhere. I mean, they literally went from master/servant, to one sided, to engaged to married in like 6 episodes, they didn't even fucking date to see how compatible they are when Varrick's not telling and making Zhu Li do stuff. That's shit.
But the Korrasami thing is still what most people wanna talk about
>I was just pretending to pretend to be retarded
Man you're the worst kind of cancer.
Gamergate and /pol/ have ruined everything. We can't just argue anymore, we have to make it into a movement where we develop a platform and then attack everyone who doesn't conform. Free speech, anonymous forum, my ass.
The fact that Korasami came out of nowhere doesn't bother me so much as the fact that the audience is expected to fawn over how bold and progressive it was, and forget that the rest of the show was garbage.
I get it, they're dykes. So are my neighbors. Can we talk about the actual show now?
Cause you don't just switch from a relationship where you've been acting like a guy's slave for years and years and where he saw you as a slave pretty much for the majority of those years up until maybe a week or two ago, and jump straight into marriage.
The dynamic is too weird at that point cause you don't know them in a romantic sense and now you have to start seeing and treating them as an equal but probably will still fall back on ordering them to do shit for example, or falling back on doing what the other person asks for even if by mistake, blah blah blah, you can't just jump into engagement and marriage that fucking fast. That's shit writing.
Sure. Let's talk about the ending scene with Korra and Asami walking off together. You know what I remember from that scene? The buildings in the background, decimated and covered in spirit vines. Those were people's homes and businesses. That city has been decimated, absolutely destroyed, when the citizens return what will they return to? There is no hope for that place anymore, none that is foreseeable during the ending at least.
People's lives are in pieces now, and they're going to come back to a bright light in the middle of their city. Take screen caps of that last scene, and crop out the shipping cancer and it looks like something out of a post-apocalyptic video game. And what does Korra do? What does the almighty Avatar, saviour of the people and breaker of LGBT chains do? She fucking leaves for a vacation with someone she has a crush on. There is no indication of how long she will be gone for, or anything. She leaves, eyes on her new girlfriend and not on the shattered city around her, and that's it. Despicable.
>Because its only you nutters that have been living off this hate for years that feel this way. Get over it.
For the love of god, TLOK isn't a perfect little snowflake just because there was some extremely tepid lesbian showcasing at the very last second.
Dude, she was being treated LIKE a slave.
She was the damn bottom of the bear costume where she was probably breathing nothing but Varrick's sweaty swampass and still had to make the guy's tea and get yelled at.
I'm gay and, as much as I'd like to have more representation in media, I'm still waiting on more gay characters that are written WELL and aren't just there to show how progressive it was.
People rightly bashed Makorra for being terribly written from start to end. People pointed out how stupid and cringe-y all of Bolin's relationships were. People complained that Varrick and Zhu-li's thing came out of nowhere. BUT OH LOOK, NOW WE'VE GOT GAYS, EVERYONE HOP ABOARD OR YOU'RE HOMOPHOBIC. What no, it wasn't badly written, they're gay, you HAVE to support it!
Fuck that. There ARE some very well written gay characters out there. There are shows that just have them and don't turn them into a novelty to shove in your face. Lok isn't one of them, sorry.
I'm honestly kind of depressed that Bryke actually confirmed Korrasami when it should have been ambiguous as intended. Now, I'm certain Nick isn't going to make a spinoff/sequel/prequel or any continuation of the franchise. Or if they are, whatever happens after Avatar Korra isn't going to reference Korra's romantic relationship with Asami as canon.
I'm really unimpressed. I mean, you can say showing gay kiss is at least subversive somewhat and a novelty for a kids cartoon but they were just kinda looking at each others and decided to travel.
Candace Flynn and Stacy Hirano are more lesbian than this.
But Korra wasn't badly written (except maybe the second season). She completed her mirror arc of Aang's development: Aang was a kid who didn't want to be the Avatar who assumed his responsibility, Korra was an Avatar who learned to embrace her own personal story both within and outside her duties. That's why she has to lose her bending in the first season, her connection to the past Avatars in the second, and her confidence and self assurance in the third.
I think Bryke did the pussy toe in the water method. Didn't commit to either, left it hang in the air until the dust settled before they made it canon.
they could have easily stated it was a platonic sisterly relationship that just needed to be strengthened from the trouble and danger it had been subjected to. But seeing as the viewership and consensus on bi coupling was good, they just went 'Yep, they are a couple' Thinking themselves revolutionary. Thats the part that shits me.
>Korra wasn't badly written
Varrick: Yo, Korra, btw Amon is my brother and we're both the sons of that one blood bending crook. Sorry to drop this all on ya in the last couple of episodes, but you were busy blood bending
Zaheer: Something, something child's conception of anarchy
Kuvira: I was adopted and raised in a loving environment. Yeah, that's why I'm evil.
>yfw they treat Korra the same way Lucas treated the 2003 clone wars cartoon and make a fresh new start
This. Bryke pretty much ended their own franchise, because there's no way Nick can get away with a homosexual canon couple in a children's cartoon show. Damnit, I was looking forward to the next based earth avatar.
It's not really that big news.
But bet your bottom dollar mornoic /pol/, stormfront and gamergoobers will push it to the forefront since they don't understand the definition of backfire.
>But seeing as the viewership and consensus on bi coupling was good, they just went 'Yep, they are a couple' Thinking themselves revolutionary. Thats the part that shits me.
Pretty much this.
>It's not like he was holding her captive
You don't have to hold someone captive to treat them like a slave anon.
>For Varrick it was looking like she wanted all this.
Oh lord, really anon?
And that still wouldn't excuse him treating her like a slave.
>You think it's subtlety
Not really. What bothers me is the fact that people seem to think bisexuality is jumping from straight to gay and viceversa.
I've been an omnivore all my life. Just because today I decided to eat a salad, you wouldn't say I'm a vegetarian, would you?
About the writing itself, I think the fact that Bryke confirmed Korrasami as "canon" was a mistake, because the way I see it, they spent the last two seasons trying to develop the relationship between Korra and Asami, but as friends. Them being friends first is essential to any healthy eventual romantic relationship. So, the way I see it, sure, they maybe started having feelings romantic feelings for each other, but just at the final episode. They could get together eventually as a couple after that, but the fact that Bryke "confirmed" it, made everyone start thinking that the romantic feelings were there all along and we just had to look, which I don't think it's what happened at all.
So yeah, Bryke sucks for "confirming" it, but my main problem with your post was that you said straigh->lesbian, which is not how bisexuality works, really.
What if homosexuality is heavily scrutinized in the Avatar world and as such Korra/Asami tried their best to hide that from season 1 to 3 until the finale in which case they said fuck it all and went all out.
Kurvira was raised by Suyin "fuck the law and the government" Beifong despite enforcing her own law and being the political official of an entire city. I'm not surprised Jr. and Kurvira ended up screwed up as they are.
She never complained. She never objected. How the hell he was supposed to see it as anything but 100% commitment to his genius.
Remember, kids, people are not psychics. People think that those who look content are content. If you have problems with them, tell them.
This. You want to know why they push diversity so hard in the media? It's the "equal and opposite reaction" to the attempts to erase people of color and LGBT from popular media. If people would stop giving a damn so much, they'd show up about as much as well they do in real life, instead of disproportionately in waves (that is, on me, and them everywhere, and then none).
It's a fucking diversity bubble and you idiots keep pumping it up.
>She never complained. She never objected.
You realize of course than once you've beaten someone down enough (and I don't mean literally) that they're now usually conditioned to not complain or say jackshit right?
For example, you can't treat your wife like shit, get her to the point that her shit life is all she knows, treat her like a slave and then tell the judge "well she never complained, her tone of voice and how she went about things certainly didn't show enthusiasm or anything and in fact showed contempt but she never said no"
>How the hell he was supposed to see it as anything but 100% commitment to his genius.
If you can't pick stuff up on body language or tone, you're autistic or narcissistic and self involved and just don't give a shit. Either way, what you're doing is fucked up
>criticisms of korrasami
I feel like this is skirting the crux of the issue. You don't need an entire website to explain why the last 2 minutes of Korra was shit when KORRA AS A WHOLE WAS SHIT.
I'm not really saying they are going to be a good couple, but you can't call their original relationship slavery.
And someone who never protest until she throws massive tantrum is a dwarf fortress resident, not a suitable wife either.
>horrid romance in season two
>no creative bending until season three. Korra literally just punch and kicked all the elements for the whole first season
>korra's character was unlikeable and arrogant, terrible set up for an MC
>retconning the avatar state
>raava/vaatu arc was uninspired and generic, the rest of the villains were good because they reflected political extremes
>pro bending was boring
I think some hints were dropped.
The hair compliment and blush being the most obvious one
But I also think if could have been handled better.
It could be argued that they didn't even realize they had barely begun to realize their feelings for each other. The spirit portal thing being the "beginning" of something.
They had become close friends by season 3.
They busting Mako's chops when he was awkward was pretty funny and a good moment. But really best aligns with a close friendship
But There was potential -- and honestly "lawl lesbians are hawt" jokes aside they really would make a good couple.
I think part of the problem was Censorship/Nick and them being not the best writers. Like they couldn't be obvious. But they couldn't be too subtle. Combine that with the people that brought us fucking "Vatuu and the dark avatar" and you will have problems.
I don't think Korra lined up with TLAB in quality. The second season was pretty terrible and the end of the first season bothered me.
But 3 and 4 were pretty solid.
I kind of liked how the focus shifted from Korra and it became more about the others. I don't know if it was intentional but It kind of went along with the theme of the world not needing the Avatar quite so much anymore.
Plus more world building. That was one of the things I loved about TLAB.
This. Hell after like episode 4 of season 1 I could tell the ATLA I knew and loved was ogre.
>but you can't call their original relationship slavery.
I never said that it was straight up slavery or anything.
>you've been acting like a guy's slave for years and years
keywords: ACTING and LIKE
>he saw you as a slave pretty much
He treated her LIKE a slave, she has to do almost fucking everything for this dude and she certainly wasn't enjoying any of it, her tone when saying "Yes sir" or whatever certainly didn't show she was content or happy, her face certainly didn't show that she was happy.
>And someone who never protest until she throws massive tantrum is a dwarf fortress resident
You can say it wasn't done well, or there should have been more.
But you're a fucking mong if you say it came out of nowhere.
Bah. It wasn't as good as Season 3 but it never made me angry like 1 or 2.
This was a season about everyone but Korra Really.
Bolin had growth.
Varrik was practically the protagonist.
Jhu Li went from background cutie to everyones waifu
Ikki got to shine.
Pemma even got a fucking moment.
About Korrasami? I have to say, the first time I heard of it, I thought it was kind of a joke. Seeing how they stablished both straight in two whole seasons.
Then, I noticed it wasn't. People saying so sure: "You're not seeing the obvious" and all that.
How can they took that for granted? Even many of the posts here were expecting "Implied Korrasami" at the end. I dunno, I'm pretty sure Bryke spread the rumor for their own ending here. Then, shippers fueled that. Why not?
>you can fucking interpret that as a friendly relationship
You can interpret anything as a friendly relationship without one of the people saying they like the other retard. But anyone with half a brain would interpret it as romantic. Just like the ending could be interpreted as friendship, but everyone but a few retards on /co/ understood it was romantic.
They didn't have to, You can even see them bring up all the articles written about it that call it a romantic relationship. Every reaction vid and everyone else except some retards on /co/ knew it was romantic from the second it hit. But for the few idiots who won't accept anything but spit swapping they made a post.
Or all the people saying it before, and then the vocal minority screaming about how it wasn't true unless they confirmed it, thinking that they'd just leave it ambiguous because Nick. Turns out that backfired a bit. It got confirmed. And people can scream and whine about them being 'condescending' but all they're doing is proving what they said right, especially about the lenses thing, and how people are so often predisposed to read it in a straight light.
But I think the key is an understanding of character outside of the writers themselves.
It flirts dangerously with Head canon, sure. But its important to understand a character and art apart from its creator. You know what I mean?
Like they're an abstract entity in of themselves.
Word of god says otherwise, thankfully.
Was shipping Korrasami since it existed.
Except even through yuri goggles, their interactions can still be read as platonic. This isn't about disallowing any bisexuality or homosexuality pairing, it's about proper storytelling and how jarringly out of left field this came from.
If you have to make an announcement after the fact about the meaning of the last scene in your show you have failed as storytellers, spectacularly so. By being unable to even make the ending pairing apparent, it's not the fault of the network for refusing to show it, it's the fault of the creators for being unable to present it. Art is defined by its limits and an artist is limited by their ability. If you can't show something well enough, you don't know how to present it or fight enough for it to be more obvious.
>i've had shitty taste for a long time
the things you people are proud of.
They made the announcement after because of the spergy retards like you. That's it. Most people had no trouble reading the interactions.
All on you, dawg, stop trying to shift the blame.
Truly not. You don't puzzle your viewers. Stop that hetero googles thing.
If you have two characters that were stablished totally straight in two complete seasons, you can't blame people for not considering their interactions as romantic later, when creators decided to do that, all of a sudden. It's logic.
If we saw a lesbian couple and then one of them ends with a boy, a guy who used to be a good friend with nothing strongly implied, we will be as confused as now.
You have no metrics to measure anything nevermind keep trying to reinforce the notion that a majority had the same opnion or how substantial such a majority might be.
There were enough didn't buy it that they had to clarify, that says enough.
Who gives a shit if Korra and the doormat ended up together, I'm just pissed that they wasted the final scene of the series on something as stupid as tumblr pandering instead of giving us a decent ending
We can do this until the world ends. It'll never change how people perceived it. If anything, Korra seems to give in to Asami purely out of guilt.
It says that you're a retard without the ability no story comprehension. You should feel embarrassed that a bunch of 14 year old girls have better story comprehension skills than you.
Way to project, I said nothing about the story or anything. I simply said your assumption of numbers was baseless.
You're just confirming your own bias with how angry you are bu throwing derogatory terms around. Everyones a retard, so tolerant, so progressive.
truly your wisdom surpasses all others.
The fact that they clarified it has nothing to do with numbers. That's extrapolation on your part, and if you are going to say that, let's get a cite on the numbers of people that are that thick.
What it does do is put out their opinion on the matter, and shuts down trolls.
...Did someone just copypaste my post from a few days ago? I wrote this verbatim.
And it still works.
Again your bias is showing by calling them trolls or thick. They have a different interpretation of what is on the screen and shared an opinion on it.
If it was just 10 guys on /co/ Bryke wouldnt have simulposted their clarification as that opinion would have been irrelevant in the scheme of things. There were even articles on forbes and other places interpreting it as sisterly friendship in contrast to those that buy into the narrative that they meant korrasami shipping all along.
i'm a different anon, i just don't like you because you're a smarmy mouth breathing cunt.
>Every reaction vid and everyone else except some retards on /co/ knew it was romantic from the second it hi
The only people vain enough to record themselves reacting to something are those with a heavy investment, and shippers are those with the heaviest of tangential attachments and USI.
Them quoting people as agreeing with them doesn't make it actually well thought out, it makes their standards lower for accepting a non-confirmation as akin to fully admissible.
You just basically said that because the incredibly loud minority expected it that made it true, when having to confirm it after the fact means it's not true in theory, since if it were it would be able to stand for itself, which it can't.
....that's literately the fucking argument, you idiot.
The lenses thing. For fuck's sake, you can't dismiss the argument, then make one that applies to it. YOU expected they'd be strait, because that's what's normal, you don't see Bi people much. Because of why? Your fucking het lenses, heteronormality. You dense dogshit.
I don't this show or shit by a long shot. Is it average or above average, yes it is because so many expected to live up TLA despite originally just being a one-shot series. Story wise everything but season 3-4 was disjointed or just badly paced because of a combination of shoddy writing,issues during production, and no long term game plans. Seasons 3-4 had a good concept of what they were wanting and how they're gonna do it. Season 1 apparently had some terrible production issues stemming from Nick dicking around over a female protagonist wouldn't sell well and they ended up making it have no marketing. Season 1 was just badly paced and introduced too much and resolved arcs too quickly to make it fulfilling, had it had say 17-20 or so episodes then it could've had more time to develop each characters,the world,etc,etc
Season 2 was mostly a result of Nick being surprised that there was a lot of people actually watching the show. This in turn made Nick order more episodes and forced the team to basically do SOMETHING that seemed interesting and we got some more information about the spirit world. The idea of explaining the spirit world and the Avatar is a pretty good idea on paper and people get to know more about the lore. Well having to carry over shit from last season muddled this, 14 episodes from a show that's a lot more story driven than anything else on it's airing channel isn't enough IMO because TLA got 20 episodes each of it's seasons. We can assume had they had more time to work on everything then the show would've been better than what we got : bad pacing, confusing plot, UnaVaatu,Deus Ex Jinora,Giant Glowly Korra.
>Anti-Korrasamifag is so butthurt he's going to make a website dedicated just to complaining about Korrasami
This just keeps better and better. The delusion of the anti-shippers has far surpassed that of the shippers at this point and it's fucking hilarious. Stay mad, kid
Here, you probably should use some of this.
It's really kind of cute. You post all these....but you always leave out the rebutting posts.
Almost as if it would wreck your augment!
You're pulling a Creig. Throwing out as many arguments as possible so that it's impossible for someone to slap each one down in anything approaching a timely manner.
the only true parts i seen was korra really only talked with asami over the three years, and when korra came back asami commented over her short hair in which krora clearly blushes
>it's not the fault of the network for refusing to show it, it's the fault of the creators for being unable to present it.
>There seem to be more meaningful lesbian couples in media than there are platonic female friends.
Because we went DECADES without any gay relationships on TV. We'll never correct past imabalances, but it makes sense that there are lots of gays and lesbians on TV now, because that is an audience need that went unaddressed for so long.
This presupposes that being a lesbian is bad, or an insult or something. Straight girls don't need someone to prove to them that they can be awesome even if they're straight. There are far more positive role models for straight girls on TV than there are for gay girls. And there have been plenty of Western cartoons with awesome (straight) female leads, whereas this is the very first one with a gay/bi female lead.
if we did then you'd bitch abut us being needy and entitled and demanding more than they were reasonably able to give in a Nick show.
i do wish it was better. i wish Korra and Asami had spent just a little more time together and Book 4, and that we were getting an S5. but i'm just so happy they ended up together because I NEVER expected it to happen.
Two girls that have resented each other for two seasons > Friends for no raisin > Lovers for secular progressive brownie points
>Two girls that have resented each other for two seasons
Never happened. Did you watch the show?
>Two girls that have resented each other for two seasons
see >>68268683 Korra was jealous of Asami but that didn't last even half of season one.
>Friends for no raisin
They became close between seasons two and three. It's implied Asami continued to live on Air temple Island, and then there was the whole of season three.
>Lovers for secular progressive brownie points
Maybe, but they were the most likely pairing for the two since the end of season two.
My only real criticism of Korra and Asami being a thing is that they didn't build it up better. If we hadn't lost that one episode to a clip show they could have laid the groundwork proper. As is I only got that they had become closer friends, but anything else we either weren't shown or just didn't happen.
Still, beyond that, I don't really have a problem with it. Asami is probably the most outright beautiful character the Avatar universe has ever given us, not cute or warm or pretty, outright beautiful. I'd be hard pressed to not see why Korra like the physical side, and she obviously liked the person too. As for Asami, a lot of men in her life have turned out to be a disappointment at one point or another, and it's easy to see why she'd seek comfort with a female friend. The idea of that developing into love and all that comes with that? That I can buy . . . it just needed built up better. That's really it. If they'd had the time, the extra episodes and such . . . if they'd laid the groundwork, this would make perfect sense from Asami's point of view.
Korra's point of view? I'm not too sure why she changed from men to women, because she'd only shown interest in men prior. Sure, people change, but I don't think the writers ever properly clued the audience into that change, or if there'd been an underlying preference the entire time prior to this revelation. My outright assumption is that she was bi all along and only explored one side of things, but Asami and Korra both seemed to have an outright preference for a cute guy earlier in the series so maybe they're both bi? I dunno. This is why I want more groundwork though, because it could give you a bit more insight into their inner feelings/thoughts.
Anyways, like I said, I'm fine with it, I'd have just liked more build up.
As for the people that don't like it, either because they just don't think she should be a lesbian or because they felt like it was out of nowhere? Eh. Life goes on I suppose.
>There is a Roger Ebert quote about that floating around, but I don't remember it
“If you have to ask what it symbolizes, it didn't.”
>She blushes when she starts to return it.
Well clearly they are deeply in love then.
How could we have missed this?!
I feel so offended by this post, and I cracked jokes at my moms funeral.
There doesn't ever need to be a reason for two girls going from friends to lovers other than they want to. Assuming they need a reason is a little too close to that "Root" of homosexuality, those Fix'em teach.
Plus one relationship with one guy and zero interest in any other guy doesn't reall work as proof of sexuality. They were always Bi, they just went for the D before they found the V.
Other than that I do wish we had more build up.
>Combined with the other stuff?
What other stuff? Them standing next to one another? Or no, how about that huge hint where Asami brings Korra tea? No no no, better even still, Korra wrote Asami that one time.
Ya'll are fucking batshit crazy.
That is the start of Pretty much every couple in in ATLA and LOK
Katara/Jet: That's how we knew they liked each other anyway
Mako/Korra: When they stopped fighting anyway.
Only two couples don't follow the "Blush to Couple" system Mai/Zuko who were an already established couple and Varrick/Zhu li, unless you count their moment in the train as a mini blush, which is a huge pandering moment.
>Fuck, even Naruto had a better ending than this pile of shit.
I hope you don't really believe this. The pairings in Naruto were even bigger asspulls than this, even between characters who had only interacted once, or even worse, never interacted before.
Bryke has sucked at romance from the beginning, don't know why it all of a sudden upsets you. About the only difference between Korrasami and Every other canon couple is we get no afterwards of seeing them be a couple.
Thread is dead.
Let the Korrasami crazies have it.
You could argue that she only brought Korra tea.
Was anyone else kind of saddened how this team Avatar completely fell apart? I can easily see Korrasami and the dynamic duo never talking, again. I don't think Bolin or Korra even really interacted at all.
They liked it but wish the romance had more development throughout the series.
You seem to be under the impression I'm talking about their sexuality. I'm not. I'm talking about they as characters needed more build up to the point we saw. Yes, there does need to be a reason, even if that reason is as simple as they found each other attractive, but they've known each other for awhile, and we needed more scenes of that development. Whether one, or both, were a lesbian all alone, or one, or both, was bisexual all along, it doesn't matter - what matters is that we see a steady progression of their feelings.
As I said in the original post, I blame the clip show being forced in place of an actual episode for the lack of such development, and development of several other character and plot aspects that they had to rush. The only people I can really blame for that are Nick themselves, as they're the ones that caused the clipshow to even be a thing, as it is. Remember that the creators themselves conceived of a much better clip show stand in at the end of the last air bender that, not only went over the plot so far, but also brought with it tons of character development. It's pretty clear they weren't allowed to do that this time.
Just think if Korra was in your crew. It was you and your people, and Korra starts up on one of your past flings. They start hanging around one another and mackin' on each other while ya'll are just sitting there like "I guess we are all cool with this?"
Nah fuck that noise, you and the crew would disown Korra's ass for that square shit.
Korrasami could have been a great story if they decided to go with it earlier and actually made it obvious before the final that one or both of them has some interest.
But no, we're stuck with what we got. I still like it because I think they're adorable, but it could have been so much better.
I agree with Rob, anime has ruined any ability to appreciate how ground breaking the end is. There has been a bunch of gays or heavily implied gays for damn near half a century now.
>Katara had a thing for Haru even after the kiss and confession despite liking Aang, too
>Implying Katara wasn't a whore
>Implying the first two of her kids are really Aang's
Katara a dirty slut.
Yeah, Lok needed a Beach episode for team avatar, and a good character focused Ember Island Players style episode. But almost all of that falls on the studio, just two episodes could have changed everything, or even one if they combined both elements.
Still, and maybe its cause I think the ending of last stand is where Korra and Asami truly began to move past friends, the ending was good for implying the two have always been Bi. Now we can go back and look at everything with perverted eyes.
>Korrasami could have been a great story
>I still like it because I think they're adorable
But that's just it. People only like that garbage because it's comprised of two chicks, you prove that with this ridiculous post.
There is nothing positive about this ship, there is no story or writing in canon that makes it work. Korrasami is based around 'it could have been so romantic and amazing, but i'll settle for two girls just because they're two girls'.
>if they decided to go with it earlier
When exactly? Season 1 was supposed to be just a mini-series. Then Nick ordered Season 2, and just Season 2. Then, most of the way through 2 being made, Nick finally pulled the trigger and ordered 3 and 4 together. And 3 is about when the implications start getting implied.
I understand your inability to refute anon's onslaught is killing you on the inside, but could you please try a little harder I'll like to get some more entertainment value out of you before you break
I also went there to look for art, all I got were people ranting about how Korrasami happening personally affected them.
I feel it could of really been helped if they had Asami be the one to visit Zaheer with Korra, get a nice "be careful, I really care about you" scene with some mildly romantic music and stuff out of it.
That said I think the build up across Book 3 is pretty nice, good build up of them as inseperable friends and the ending does have a few hints that it could be more, but in Book 4 Korra spends so much time away from her friends that there just isn't that much and by hte time she gets back the show slips into Plot Overdrive mode within like 3 episodes.
The best pairing was Korra alone. How is being with Mako or Asami different other than the progressive message behind it? Either way, it's like she needs a ship. Bryke are morons because Korra was about being independent and believing in yourself. Now it's just like "Here, take this girl who just guilt tripped you over her dad dying in the final battle".
I'll say it again and again. Someone else should have been bi or gay, like Lin or Bumi. Not Korra.
It's so contrived to have two women fight over the same dude, become friends, then fall in love with each other. Imagine if Asami was male. The pairing would be just as random and poorly conceived, but tons more people would be bitching at the ending like "OH OF COURSE KORRA NEEDS A NEW BOYFRIEND OUT OF NOWHERE, THANKS BRYKE!"
Seriously. It makes no sense for Korra to suddenly like Asami because of a blush and A FEW letters she wrote then discontinued.
Korra is never concerned about Asami during the final battle or really any battle ever throughout the entire show.
Korra cries when Tenzin's kids find her with Toph, yet all she does is hug Asami AND Mako (for the same amount of time) when she returns in Reunion.
When Mako says "what's going on between you two?" it's not a reference to Korra and Asami's "lovers spat," but the fact that they go quiet about the letters. I can't count the amount of times people take this scene out of context thinking it takes place at the end of their conversation when it happens at the start. Again, it makes sense for Korra to write to Asami since she only had her ex or Bolin the shit poster.
Asami also mentions visiting her father which Korra shoots down immediately. Who wouldn't get pissed at Korra for that? She was rude.
There is no "lovers spat" in that scene, just arguments between friends for how Korra left things. Mako is equally as pissed as Asami and the scene is drawn as a parallel to the Avatar Krew's earlier fights in Book 1.
it became a "LGBT" rights cause the moment Korrasami came to light.
Being subversive is bullshit excuse, you either make the relationship happen or you don't. not the bullshit we got. The show went online, it didn't have the forced censorship that you get on television.
This show won't be known for the shakespearian struggle between brothers in season 1, the sins of the father and all that.
it won't be remembered for the crappy 2nd season.
it won't be remembered for the 3rd season for the completition of a revolution for equality through anarchy.
it won't be remembered for Adolf Kuvira and her march to bring unity through strength.
It is going to be remembered for the last 120 seconds of shipping, the avatar studio will get a multitude of undeserved awards and accolades and for that I weep for the time and effort we as fans of the avatar franchise have invested, to see a franchise be butchered again......never again we said after M.Night's abomination....yet it happened again.
In the words of a fellow anon......."This is some bullshit".
I actually ship Korrasami pretty hard and I agree with this, when I think of the Finale I think about Korra saving Kuvira and their conversation afterward way more than Korrasami.
Why doesn't Asami blush if she's so in love with Korra? Asami never blushes that so means she doesn't like Korra, right? Asami had plenty of other emotions like the very visible face change in Book 1 with the soup, why would she be so stone-faced if her WAIFU just complimented her?
I think the outlook on Korra and Asami's relationship is exactly the same as the whole of The Legend of Korra. I will always remember it as the show that could have been. Oh so near, yet oh so far.
Season 2's animation, or just animation from Studio Pierrot in general.
So fucking soulless in a lot of the episodes, like background characters could've done something subtle instead of standing around like robots. And even when characters are talkin they hardly emote at times.
There was just no life to any of the characters in the animation.
really? i didn't see it like that.
I thought Roku had a good friendship with Sozin not a iffy one
and......we didn't know much about Kyoshi, i always thought hero cult she founded was just for female empowerment
I agree, and I find the creator's comments about people "only looking at it through hetro eyes" kind of insulting. I'm all for gay characters, but think of it this way: if Asami had been male, would people look at the ending differently? I suppose on the one hand we could see it as a realistic, slow start to something romantic, but in a way that makes it stand out from the more hinted at romantic relationships you usually get in fiction. It might be a case of "truth in television", but I agree that a bit more build up couldn't have hurt.
Or am I just rambling?
Fucking political "gold-star" lesbians shitting up these threads...
There are three options here:
1) They are both bi (the most likely scenario)
2) Mako is so horrible in bed/as a bf he turned them both gay
3) Both of them are lesbians who bowed to societal pressure and dated a guy (This happens a lot)
Yeah that was kinda arrogant, honestly I think it just needed one or two more scenes in Book 4, but I can really only think on one episode in which it would of been easy to add it in.
>"only looking at it through hetro eyes" kind of insulting.
How? I took it as meaning if you watch it again knowing they are bi it will be more apparent, than if you think they are straight. Not hur dur cisscum.
You'll never find a more accurate summary of the ending than this image, hence why all the special snowflakes on tumblr act is if it's the most amazing thing ever for a character to become bi in the last 15 seconds of a series when nothing in the series was ever really about that moment.
I did, the only pairing that somewhat made sense is NaruHina. Sasusaku? PLEASE. SaiIno, Chouji.Karui, eh....
Oh yes Shikatema which was objectively one of the better pairings. But that's really it.
So anyone know what happens now? Will there be comics and shit or is that it for the Avatar world?
How are asexuals depicted as more interesting than heterosexuals?
I'm asexual, I sit at home all day and post on the internet.
How do you figure you're asexual? Are you sure you aren't just desensitized from daily isolation?
If a qt3.14 tried to touch your peepee, you're telling me that you'd have no interest?
I guess I just don't like the implication that I only didn't pick up on it because I have "hetro eyes". It seems like a weak way of justifying bad execution that shifts the blame onto the viewer. I feel like I'd feel exactly the same way if Asami had been male the whole time.
If they were a het couple, they would have been able to make it more overt so we wouldn't find ourselves in this situation. Honestly, comments like this are a bit ignorant and speak a lot of privilege because they hold us to an unfair standard. We're constantly expected to live up to a double standard before we're accepted or recognised. If you want us to make our case - then work to remove restrictions heteronormative society has in place to stop us effectively existing on TV - and encourage more LGBT writers to keep at it or get into the game - then we'll show you how well we can do it.
The problem is that people just look at Bryke's comments being an attack on them instead of admitting there are things they may have missed due to a lack of exposure to or perspective on LGBT romance in the media.
They made a valid point and showed they know vastly more about representation than /co/ does so it pisses me off they're being attacked for "covering their asses" when at no point did they claim what they did was perfect.
Have people actually read Bryan's post instead of just picking out the SJ terminology?
>The more Korra and Asami’s relationship progressed, the more the idea of a romance between them organically blossomed for us. However, we still operated under this notion, another “unwritten rule,” that we would not be allowed to depict that in our show. So we alluded to it throughout the second half of the series, working in the idea that their trajectory could be heading towards a romance.
>Was it a slam-dunk victory for queer representation? I think it falls short of that, but hopefully it is a somewhat significant inching forward. It has been encouraging how well the media and the bulk of the fans have embraced it.
you're actually cornering yourself with this argument because if it ISN'T then there should be nothing weird about two previously 'straight' girls deciding to suddenly hook up at a party.
i mean really.
The problem was it was so poorly developed, just like every relationship in all of Avatar, and the fact that it's being hyped and talked about this much, more so than the actual show and its finale, tells you a lot about the Korra fanbase. Korra had actually developed in Book 4 a little, but Asami carried on being the least interesting character in the series. She's just easy on the eyes and nothing more.
>tells you a lot about the Korra fanbase
Maybe it tells you alot about the show. That all people want to talk about is this means that the rest of the show wasn't interesting or entertaining enough to be talked about. Maybe that's why the show had to be pulled in the first place.
>>The more Korra and Asami’s relationship progressed, the more the idea of a romance between them organically blossomed for us.
They could do that with any pair of friends, if this was true.
but you don't realise how important and landmark it is to
like i don't read anything of Bryke saying "we had lesbians, you can't criticise it". people are coming to that conclusion on their own since they don't like being challenged, because there is definitely an element of heternormativity in why people didn't pick up on subtext. and you're all too eager to fit in with people who'd erase you from the media completely.
if you're the sort of lesbian who uses the term SJW unironically then i think maybe there's something else in why you think that.
Guys, now that he had a long discussion about Korrasami, can we talk a little bit about how forced Varrick and Zhu Li became a couple just starting the 4th season just because?
Because even if it had build up the whole season, I find it dumb they just started having a blatant romantic moments literally the first episode they showed up.
Why is this show so bad at romance?
I've had quite a few 'hints' but I suppose I learned while I was in my last relationship. I was involved in a six month long relationship where I only really serviced her sexually. I actually quite enjoyed the nuts and bolts of learning her rhythms and what she enjoyed, but I never was able to orgasm by simply having sex with her. Nor was I ever overeager to get into her pants, I cannot remember initiating any of our sexual acts. I eventually broke up with her because she was becoming distressed that she never was able to make me orgasm and I wasn't all over her asking for sex, and I hated seeing her think less of herself.
It's been four years since my last relationship, I do not masturbate, I do not see attractive women (or men, but i've never thought of myself as attracted to other men) and think anything sexual about them (or 'us' I guess). My mind is usually occupied by my hobbies, or various other tasks I have to do at home or at my job.
Shut up Potsy.
this is what happens when you let yourself be conditioned by 4chan's anti-SJW rhetoric. all of what i'm saying makes sense, you're having a negative reaction to parts of it because you've been told that they're shameful and desperately cling to that idea to feel a part of an extremely unforgiving community that ultimately stamps out dissent.
which is a heavy accusation but probably true on some level.
>an we talk a little bit about how forced Varrick and Zhu Li became a couple just starting the 4th season just because?
Don't know about you but I called that since season 2. I was sure Zhu Li had a thing for Varrick because of all the crap she endured for him. I mean she went to prison with him, she had no reason to do so, unless she wanted to be with him. Varrick coming to realize just how important she was to him after almost losing her also makes sense to me.
not really, i mean i knew a girl who said she was one at university, she was pretty good on the eye. but she had no interest in sex, but she was very chummy with one guy, but that was it.
me thinks she would become an "atheist" nun
See, this >>68270434 is what I mean. I was all with you on the representation train, and then you had to go pull this bullshit.
And also: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YgHNtzxO0y8
>I was sure Zhu Li had a thing for Varrick because of all the crap she endured for him. I mean she went to prison with him,
I always took it as just comedy
>she had no reason to do so
Except the fact that she's an employee and Varrick still has the money to pay for not only a good room in prison but also his assistant.
I agree they had chemistry enough to become a couple at the end but I find it really forced how they started to during season 4, and they had like 2 scenes together before becoming a couple, and both of them were literally romantic moments. It was really stupid. They could have foreshadow this with the small moments with Varrick during season 3.
>or am I rambling?
Nope this man is completely right
If Asami was a man, we would all had been complaining about how all the message of Korra being an independent strong female character was being thrown out of the window.
By making them end up together and being bi, les, or what have you they actually make it worse because not only it undermined Korra as role model because of the above, it also introduced the whole tomboy girls are dykes and scorned women turn lesbian problem, but because "Muh Lesbians" people praise this shut ending that goes against anything progressive and in fact reinforces stereotypes.
I, have in fact the profile of the two people who defend this "ship" there's the:
"Muh Lesbians" or any variants thereof, like "Lesbians are cute <3," "shippers" etc.
At the end of the day they only ship this because they either can't into relationships, or because rule 34
Then there's the:
"Muh representation" who's just trying to push an agenda and just want to check things of their list, regardless of how badly done it is, or how much it backfires if put into any sort of scrutiny
Because this groups are irrational they will defend this shit ending to the very ends of the earth, no matter if the have any argument or leg to stand with, exhibit A)>>68268168 and bryke hacks that they are can comfortably sit in their chair stroking their ducks and patting their backs because of their "progressive" ending that shields them from any rightful criticism
>The problem was it was so poorly developed, just like every relationship in all of Avatar,
I thought Bopal was done well, we saw them flirt and get closer, we saw them have relationship issues and eventually work things out and stay together.
Because Avatar in general is. I mean really between both shows almost every couple kinda just happens or is like some crush at first sight deal.
I think Zuko and Mai actually get together entirely offscreen, and he's basically the second main character.
Even the one couple in both shows that has anything resmbling decent build up (that would be Aang and Katara) has like 90% of that build up only on Aangs side.
How much time is dedicated to explain the Bolin-Beifong relationship, yet Korra and Assami are still get only a few scenes. And how in the end, it doesn't even matter for Bolin in the final episode, they are "together and happy". Same for Varrick, its cute and all but it doesn't add anything to the relation between zu li and him, you just assume they are doing the thing, the same thing from previous 4 seasons, but I guess they are married now so at least they can have sex.
Korra and Assami? Stranded in a few reunion scenes. Even though they had tons of possibilities to get a relationship ongoing:
>Assami hears about Korra disappearing, searches frantically for her
>Assami goes in Tenzin mission to recover Korra/ Goes to recover Korra alone
>Meet in the Swamps, throw a few Toph gags about lesbians
>Save Korra in the battlefield before Kuvira crushes her
>Supports Korra meeting with Zahreer, throw them all in the same room and make Assami the shine of hope for Korra to stand up again
>Final battle episodes, make Assami confess to Korra she can't leave in a world without "the avatar".
And I'm not even a shipper!
Fuck the legend of Korra. It spits on your face and doesn't have the goats to call it rain.
>If they were a het couple, they would have been able to make it more overt so we wouldn't find ourselves in this situation.
That's exactly the point. Because of social and network constraints, they couldn't do it the way that a heterosexual couple would have been done in the same story, and that ends up making it feel "off" from a storytelling perspective. I will agree that the writers aren't exactly at fault for working within these constraints, but I do think the narrative suffers for it. And to be honest, from their own comments, I think they feel the same way.
Maybe you're right that I shouldn't feel insulted by the way they worded it. I guess that's why I wrote it as "kind of insulting," because I wasn't exactly sure of it myself.
>If it seems out of the blue to you, I think a second viewing of the last two seasons would show that perhaps you were looking at it only through a hetero lens.
I just disagree that I would have seen it without this so called "hetero lens".
but this is entirely a thing. and it's pretty blatant in most threads. i'm not going to not call it out just because some people feel it's going "too far".
these threads largely revolve around attacking bryke's posts because they feel like it's an attack on them for talking about heteronormative readings. i can't not comment on that.
>By making them end up together and being bi, les, or what have you they actually make it worse because not only it undermined Korra as role model because of the above, it also introduced the whole tomboy girls are dykes and scorned women turn lesbian problem, but because "Muh Lesbians" people praise this shut ending that goes against anything progressive and in fact reinforces stereotypes.
so, tomboyish lesbians don't exist/we shouldn't show them. nice.
look stop trying to look progressive because it's not working.
>"Muh representation" who's just trying to push an agenda a
lol this sounds familiar
You seem to have made a bit of a mistake in your post. Luckily, the users of 4chan are always willing to help you clear this problem right up! You appear to have used a tripcode when posting, but your identity has nothing at all to do with the conversation! Whoops! You should always remember to stop using your tripcode when the thread it was used for is gone, unless another one is started! Posting with a tripcode when it isn't necessary is poor form. You should always try to post anonymously, unless your identity is absolutely vital to the post that you're making!
Now, there's no need to thank me - I'm just doing my bit to help you get used to the anonymous image-board culture!
It's funny because even if Zutarians were the most annoying people in the planet, they were right about all the foreshadowing and subtlety of a developing romance. Katara and Zuko built a more subtle romantic relationship in a single episode than the awkwardness Katara and Aang shared on screen, even if Aang's feelings for Katara were well developed.
>because there is definitely an element of heternormativity in why people didn't pick up on subtext
Pfff. So you're saying that if Asami as a guy, no one would bat an eye at the ending? The buildup was enough for it? I don't buy it.
I blame 13 episode seasons. Honestly a lot of the shows problems seem to come from that. Don't know if 13 half hour episodes are not a good format or Bryke could not make the adjustements from the number they had with ATLA
but if you are hetero, or you're exposed to almost constantly heteronormative media it's impossible to escape. it's not meant to be a judgement on your character persay but trying to hit back on the sorts of people who claim to NEVER see queer subtext and mock people who do. it's really really important to criticise that for a number of reasons.
and like i said, straight people(and white people) often like to act like THEY'RE the ones being hard done by so will jump on comments like that to try and muddy the waters and make it looks like discrimination goes "both ways" or that those who push for LGBT representation are really just doing it to compensate.
(and i'm not qualifying with NOT ALL HETS or NOT WALL WHITES because fuck off)
>Again, we wouldn't be in this situation is Asami was a guy.
Someone forgets this was a thing that EVERYONE hated
I've never known a virgin catholic (or any other denomination/religion come to think of it). Srsly.
>me thinks she would become an "atheist" nun
Maybe something bad happened to her.
I just want to reiterate that a big part of the problem is that a lot of people view themselves as educated or progressive and don't want to accept that they can get shit wrong. That's where a big part of the revulsion towards even the tamer parts of tumblr social justice comes from too - people don't like to be corrected or called out on things. So it was predictable people would get angry at Bryke, but it's not really about "protecting shit writing" - it's the fact that they suggested that on any level that these people could be wrong about something.
it makes people feel dumb and uneducated not to pick up on these things, and missing it proves a lot of the theory "SJWs" spout correct, so they just erase it from their reality.
I'm not saying this is true in EVERY case but it's clearly a dominant underlying theme in these threads.
why because they're a guy and a girl?
like, you're conditioned to view this as more normal so if it feels that a relationship "makes sense" to you there is ALWAYS going to be a level of heteronormativity in that since that's what you're raised into. Of course people won't admit it - since they don't want to be wrong.
Can you explain what other factors there might be in this?
Well that one wasn't hated for being too subtle but instead for taking over like a third of the plot and making every character involved look bad.
And even that romance that takes over a third of the plot? STILL CRUSH AT FIRST SIGHT SHIT.
Meh, the creators openly admitted it was fan pandering, on the same level of Tahno's tromboneing
And as a lot of people have stated Bryke has always been bad at romantic build up, it either is or is not, there is no subtext
Potsy, shut the fuck up. I would accept Korrasami if the development between both characters was actually decent instead of spending like 3 scenes together max while Korra and Mako were actually doing important shit for most of the season. If it was Asami who played Mako's role through those moments, and then "oh hey, wanna hold hands and scissor?" that shit would be acceptable storytelling.
The Zhu Li and Verrick relationship was poorly developed too, just like the Korra and Asami relationship. These writers do not know how to write a budding relationship at all, their track record is TERRIBLE. I don't care if Korra is a guy, girl, gender neutral, or anuthing. Bryke are hacks.
>STILL CRUSH AT FIRST SIGHT SHIT.
I think we all need to come to grips with the fact that all Avatar relationships happen this way. Regardless of writer or intent, it's just part of the Avatar formula like bending.
Like Zhu li was never seen without Varrick?
Like Asami was never seen in season 2?
Like you could see Zhu li and Varrick getting together because they know all about eachother and have worked together for over a decade?
Korra has, out of the main cast, the least amount of screentime with Asami.
Korra should've ended up with no one.
yeah but you can't use
and part of that is because women are more likely to be romantic/fall in love with each other anyway, it's just easier to cover it up since women are viewed as more "affectionate".
i remember a study a while back that found a lot of the relationships married women had with their friends were actually much closer to romance than what they had with their husbands. which makes sense - if you're bi and you're living in a society that tells you the end goal is to marry a man, there's a good choice you'll do it. but you might feel a part of yourself is missing if you lean more towards girls romantically, so you fill it with "Close friends".
i mean i was with one of my best friends not long ago, we're not involved but at one point we just got our boobs out and started playing with them.
how often do guys do stuff like that?
also the truth is that if it IS ambiguous - that means you can't act like the other reading doesn't exist. it was valid to read Korrasami from the end of S3 onwards. but as usual queer shippers get called delusional.
Yep, and that's why they should have stopped trying to create romantic relationships, focus on non romantic relationships for the sake of character development, and focus on character interactions. Yet, a character driven show lacked characters, and that's why Korra sucked. But when you read interviews with the creators, you can see they don't know shit about writing.
being progressive is the excuse
get with the times
being a faggot gives you get out of jail free card, it is is like teflon, for fuck sakes Forbes and Entertainment Today were gushing over it
Not really Varrick either treats Zhu li like a thing or is totally oblivious to her come ons. then bam, Marriage proposal. Heck even when he's complaining about her not being around its because Bolin doesn't make as good of a Zhu li.
Are you so deluded that you really think all of this criticism over this ending is because all of us are afraid to admit on an anonymous imageboard that we didn't see some ship becoming canon?
You know your problem? You are so far up your own ass, so deluded with your image of self righteousness, that you think that any of these criticisms cannot be valid because how could they? They'd be going against your opinion of how amazing it is to see two girls holding hands,and it'd be marring your future full of fanfiction and bullshit. You're a joke.
You're so hellbent on making everyone value representation, not matter how shitty it is, over quality. It's not going to happen. You ever ask yourself why everyone in these threads universally laughs at you? Not even hate, they fucking laugh at you because you're ridiculous.
Here's a hint:
It's not because we're all embarrassed about being 'wrong'., what a joke
There was no quality or quantity. There was no romantic subtext, there was no chemistry, there was no development. It was terribly developed romance by hack writers. There's nothing to defend. Characters date in Avatar because of either shippers begging for it, or just because Bryke feels like putting them together. And like always, it is a massive distraction.
>Yet, a character driven show lacked characters
Bullshit. Between Korra's arc, Mako's evolution and his relationships (with Bolin, Wu, the girls), Lin's family drama and Tenzin's worries about his legacy, the show had plenty character.
Asami is still a wallpaper. She was only popular because she was attractive and ocassionally someone punched her into the ground.
>mean i was with one of my best friends not long ago, we're not involved but at one point we just got our boobs out and started playing with them.
>how often do guys do stuff like that?
I doubt guys would be able to look each other in the eye if something like that happened.
We were talking about Zhu li and Varrick...well at least I was. Which is 100% fan pandering. Also why her looks were filled out and cutetized and why all of a sudden her being a talkative little chicka
There doesn't need to be evidence or justification for someone to be bisexual. Straight isn't the default. To people saying that it was an asspull, not every romance has to be built up, will they won't they style, not to mention that it was just the beginning of a relationship, it isn't as though they were deciding to get married. My largest disappointment with the season finale was that there was too much time spent on failed plans and the dues ex machina of platinum saws. If the saws had in any way been alluded too previously in the seasons, or if there had been a reason for developing them, it would make more sense. Korra's diplomacy which was used to show her growth was also hamfisted. Her speech was cliche and unconvincing, with Kuvira's reaction to boring and overdone. The way the rest of the characters were seen in the final scene seemed rushed as well, with Bolin not getting a proper send off and only a small amount of the rest of the characters interacting. That being said, I really enjoyed the finale.
Mako was the second least interesting character in the show. He had no character arc, he was just a boring ass cop mary sue. It wasn't until the clip show episode did they attempt any kind of story arc for the character that was so poorly done with so much exposition. The show was assssss.
and so the battle continues
fan shippers may have won with Bryke confirming the fan service and with various outlets masturbating to progressiveness.
but we, the real fans of the avatar mythos don't accept it as canon, hopefully if someone picks it, they'll erase it like how Disney has erased the Star Wars Expanded Universe, and turned it into Star Wars Legends. Giving them a fresh slate to work with.
Jesus Christ, who the fuck cares who dates who. If that's all you care about, you're just as bad as the shippers. You're part of the demographic they pander to, you're just on the side who "lost." But fuck me, this fanbase is the biggest problem with this franchise.
Bryke more or less said what you did, that the ending for LoK was the beginning of something other than friendship for them. They are a psudo-couple at the end, about to bloom in the spirit world.
yeah, they're hacks. I watch Avatar for the first time last year and just finished all of Korra a few days ago. They lack subtlety, depend on the same character elements, resorts to tons of exposition and deus ex machina plot devices, etc. Avatar's strength was that it was a character driven show that had fun character interactions, can't say the same about Korra.
I think that has always been the case, at the ending of ATLA the only talk was Shippers throwing feces at each other. Compared to then this is actually pretty mild. Give it another week and the only threads will be about how shitty a person Suyin is.
Oh Potsy my dear, you couldn't resist my charms now, could you?
>so, tomboyish lesbians don't exist/we shouldn't show them. nice.
Maybe not in TV land, or maybe they do(they certainly exist by the dozen in comic land). I don't look too much into those kinds of thing as I look for characters and story first, unlike you, you see I don't need scraps off the table, which is what it comes off when you story only has a character who is gay for the sake of having a gay character, is as insulting as having a black character for the sake of meeting some racial quota.
At worst it comes off as pandering and there is nothing more pitiful than pandering as they would then be exploiting my position and struggle to boost their viewership and profits at the sake of having some cardboard cutout caricature (which what a tomboyish girl who went lesbian for the ex of her ex is) it is is called having self respect, maybe your mom taught you that?
Tho going back on topic, you'll be lying to me if the prevalent view on society is that lesbians are tomboys or dykes if you will, as is because I like the box and can't barely stand the sight of the dick means that I somehow have to at least some man clothes in my drawer and can't be perfectly happy instead having ten different mini skirts, having a tomboy who is not a lesbian would have therefore being revolutionary, plus any tomboy girls wouldn't have to feel as if being a tomboy somehow means that they actually secretly like girls, especially it wouldn't leave the subtext of scorned women turn lesbian
>look stop trying to look progressive because it's not working.
This applies to you sweetie, and your non argument
>had it had say 17-20 or so episodes then it could've had more time to develop each characters,the world,etc,etc
I am so sick of this stupid argument. You write within the space you are given. Both Bryke and Nick are retards for not questioning and just "going with it."
>But fuck me, this fanbase is the biggest problem with this franchise.
You can argue that the shipping part of a franchise is the biggest cancer.
They were doing a great job not interfering with romance in Book 3 (huh, guess why it's the strongest season after all) and 3/4ths of Book 4.