The most retarded shit ever Cultures should be spread and enjoyed, not held in cages They are also not something static and they do not exist in vacuums, at the time wearing something related to some culture might be offensive and that should be respected, but it might not be such with time.
>>9024475 Don't use paper, gunpowder, compasses, fireworks, typographies, paper currency, kites, matches, playing cards, even toilet paper. These are inventions of the cunning Chinese. Keep the European culture authentic.
Diversity is gud :---DDDDD but only in the form of millions of foreigners flooding into ur country ROFLMAO:))) Simply adopting a few cultural items, clothing, food or ideas is cultural appropriation this is bad :--DDDDD ebin
>>9024546 >as Europeans we have to be the bigger men
Bigger men, how? No, we are people too and we need to call out the contradictions that they spew. Let everyone wear what they want but if they want to whine about appropriation they need to go back to the days of their ethnic garb.
>>9024565 Who cares? How often do you feel compelled to wear feathers in your head or put a bone through your nose or something? If they complain about it, whatever, I don't dress in their traditional clothes anyway so idc.
You're making too big a deal out of this, just relax.
>>9024565 >No, we are people too and we need to call out the contradictions that they spew Why Like I get that you try to be all logical and smart but these are cultures, they aren't built on reason and math exactly. I don't mind not wearing traditional clothing of some culture, however if someone wants to wear something that's from western culture, I don't care. I mean on a smaller scale this kinda shit happens every day on /fa/ you just don't realize it >don't wear skate shoes unless you skate >don't wear x unless y Small sub cultures want to "keep it real", with time no one gives a fuck though as people forgive past misdeeds, cultures change and they mix.
>>9024596 Culture matters, but I don't offended when brown people wear European traditional clothes, maybe its because Im American but still. i don't see why brown people get offended when whites wear their clothes either.
I don't think that you should feel offended just because they feel offended, it doesn't make sense.
Go make a twitter hashtag about it while you're at it.
I can see why it bothers some people when the costumes are cheap and inaccurate and misrepresent their culture, like when a halloween costume mixes elements from a bunch of different native tribes and just calls it "native warrior" or something. I don't see any problem with an accurate costuem though.
>>9024596 >Because in Sweden they are dressing like pic related. But that's just Swedish culture saying "it's okay to us for someone from different culture to wear our traditional clothing" Other cultures aren't necessarily like that, that's the idea here. Indians (the country not injuns) and actually lot of African tribes actually don't mind people dressing in their clothing, Indians feel like it's a compliment, someone likes their clothing enough to wear them, to the tribes when they dress you up in their traditional clothing it's a sign of acceptance, you are a cool guy by them and you can rock that shit now. Why offend just to do it?
>>9024540 mainstream America gets pissed as fuck if people wear their home culture's clothes, and only gives respect to people who can wear the european symbols of status and power.
Amerindians, Indians, and others have been forcibly educated in the western tradition, and denied their history and culture. To then decide that you can just go ahead and take the great signifiers of that history and use them as some prop to your outfit is obnoxious.
That said, a lot of people have a misunderstanding of what the term means. There are plenty of aspects of different cultures' aesthetics and history that freely mix with everything else, or that doesn't have spiritual/religious/historical context attached to it any more.
Also, you'll basically never catch shit for it unless you're doing the most basic, stereotypical caricatures of a culture, which doesn't loof /fa/ anyways.
>>9024617 Europeans appropriated everything else they had though. Personally I believe that adherence to cultural and national identity is a barrier to human progress. We should embrace a global society once and for all.
>>9024635 >>9024617 I'm saying that that's the reason that wearing European clothing is acceptable; because it's p much a necessity if you don't want to get called a terrorist/savage/FoB/whatever else.
Europeans are afforded respect most places that they go, and so, they haven't had the same pressure to assimilate into the habits of clothing, etc.
For them, it's more of a free choice, but for everyone else, it's not like you can go into a job interview wearing some super ethnic getup. If you want to make money and be a part of society, you wear a suit.
>>9024648 I think part of that is that it contributes to a misunderstanding of what a culture is, and is seen as being some dumb fashion designer without any historical entrenchment making some shit up that looks "exotic" or whatever.
How would you feel if some dumbass made up some ridiculous getup that's a misunderstanding of the way that you dress, making a fuckload of money off of it and reshaping the way that people view you without any input from ya?
>>9024664 I think that's different, when some clothing is inspired by another culture, it's a form of compliment whereas just straight up wearing the legit cultural clothing might be offensive to some. I mean naturally there are even those who get offended even those inspired clothes, but then there are also those who don't get offended by the least if someone wears the real deal, yeah get that, there are conservative and less conservative people in all cultures.
>>9024680 >when's the last time a swede complained about cultural appropriation because vikings don't actually wear horn helmets All the fucking time oh my god. I have three swedish friends and they literally cannot shut the fuck up about people using pagan culture as a costume
>>9024677 >I wonder why Native Americans owned weapons? That's right, because they were warring with and exploiting each other long before Europeans came. They fought each other for land and territory. Clearly not what I meant. I think a tribe of Indians would find it very offensive if someone from the tribe they are in war with would wear their traditional clothing. When it feels like certain culture has exploited your own, someone who in your eyes is a part of that exploiting culture wears something that's huge part of your cultural identity it feels like he's openly mocking you to your face. It's been a long ass time and I honestly think the faster the cultures can move on from past mistakes the better, but I can't really just go tell people what to get offended or not offended about. With time it will happen though and everything's gonna be alright, no need to get offended because people get offended
>>9024621 >But that's just Swedish culture saying "it's okay to us for someone from different culture to wear our traditional clothing"
>Other cultures aren't necessarily like that
Exactly. But unless being a hypocrite is also part of their culture, the ONLY way I see that they can complain is by wearing their traditional garb. Pic related, THESE people I will listen to, assuming they also live in Africa.
>>9024666 The formation of unique cultures and subcultures (and consequently the "micro-societies" that come from them) is an inevitability of any society, no matter the scale. It's happened on much smaller scales throughout human history, and now that the total population is at an all time high it certainly won't stop. We don't want to be united as billions (or even millions), and we never will. Rome is a prime example of this, and even colonial America-Britain.
>>9024700 >Look at every great military leader in the history of mankind, their goal has always been to unite the world under one nation
And they've always failed, America is failing like the Roman Empire failed before. it You can't have self determination if there too many different identities in your country, if you know what Im saying.
>>9024700 >Look at every great military leader in the history of mankind, their goal has always been to unite the world under one nation
And look what happened to them. They're always either destroyed from the inside by the faulty mechanics and logistics that held them together (as was the case with the Roman empire and their attempts to blend cultures), or they're destroyed by nations with unique cultures that refuse to be united (see every other conquest ever). Uniting means agreeing with every established government and belief system and that will NEVER happen. Learn to history, Bonaparte.
Well these are the nations Europeans built, after all. Everyone else is a guest.
Maybe in the old days you'd have trouble getting a job without acting European. These days though, with such a relaxed dress code, you'd probably get a job by dressing in African interview garb to fulfill some diversity quota (as we no longer have discrimination, but reverse discrimination).
>Why aren't you wearing a suit? >This is my traditional African formal wear. Are you racist? >OOOOOH WE'RE SORRY *gives job*
>>9024695 again, if you want to get hired in the US or Europe, or like, most of the developed world, you are gonna wear a suit and tie.
This is because Europe established it as the dominant symbol of prestige/power/wealth/etc.
No one is demanding that you wear the outfit of the guy in your pic in order to survive and feed yourself.
But again, there's a difference between clothing that is seen as everyday wear and stuff that's more symbolic.
That being said, there are people of every culture on both sides of the debate. If you use another culture's motifs, at least try not to fall into the played out stereotypes that have been historically associated with them.
idk it's not like any of these cultures are set or dead or anything, and there's definitely exchange happening all the time. It just has to take place in good faith, and you have to be conscious of the other side when you want to make that exchange.
>>9024695 >. But unless being a hypocrite is also part of their culture You are trying to apply a logic that makes no sense here. It's fucking cultures man, cows are sacred for Indiands but they don't go around crying to my face because I eat burger, because they understand that's okay in my culture, you need to have certain amount of understanding and acceptance towards other cultures.
>>9024715 >Bonaparte That was supposed to be Hitler, who tried to invade Russia and made the same mistakes as Bonaparte, resulting in defeat. The joke being that he would have learned about the mistakes of the French conquest had he finished highschool. -5
>>9024699 But we are uniting, or don't you see internet culture as a unification of all other global cultures. With time this culture begins to seep into the real world (fashion is an example, look at the trend of tshirts with traditional japanese designs).
I'm not against the formation of cultures, they are necessary and inevitable as you have said but what I actually meant to say is that xenophobia and nationalism are a barrier to human progress.
>>9024752 It does not upset me, but I do believe it's not optimal at all. Not when it includes excluding elements of other cultures that could be beneficial in a society. China comes to mind, if they had maintained their "national integrity" they wouldn't have adopted capitalism which has given them unprecedented progress and a higher standards of living (even if it's still bad in rural areas).
>>9024816 There would still be conflicts over resources, they would just be intranational wars rather than international. There would be more conflict if there was a bunch of cultures as different from each other as possible trying to live together in harmony than if everyone kept to themselves.
>>9024845 Exactly. I don't see why people hold grudges over things that someone's ancestors did. It's like that bullshit german guilt, which I never understood. You are not responsible for what your great great grandfathers did. Appropiation it's not harmful unless it's ridiculing the culture it represents. Now w2c japanese navajo shoes?
>>9024840 you decide what the line is, and if someone tells you whatever ur doing is offensive listen to them and then think about it and u decide if u still wanna wear whatever it is they are on about
e.g. enjoying food from a different culture would be ok, (unless the food was used for a specific purpose and has significance beyond just food)
how ever (pic related) is something that i would to be offensive because "Tattoo arts are common in the Eastern Polynesian homeland of Māori, and the traditional implements and methods employed were similar to those used in other parts of Polynesia (see Buck 1974:296, cited in References below). In pre-European Māori culture, many if not most high-ranking persons received moko, and those who went without them were seen as persons of lower social status. Receiving moko constituted an important milestone between childhood and adulthood, and was accompanied by many rites and rituals. Apart from signalling status and rank, another reason for the practice in traditional times was to make a person more attractive to the opposite sex. Men generally received moko on their faces, buttocks (raperape) and thighs (puhoro). Women usually wore moko on their lips (kauwae) and chins. Other parts of the body known to have moko include women's foreheads, buttocks, thighs, necks and backs and men's backs, stomachs, and calves."
Translation: We raped and killed each other over land for ages but I'm still buttmad about being obliterated by a superior white force. I can never hope to steal the land back at gunpoint, so I'll steal it back by abusing their empathy like a panhandler. "waa waa we never hurt anybody. stolen. unfair. give it back nao"
>>9024937 you're misunderstanding. Everyone is all for an interested, equal, intelligent cooperation between cultures. What isn't cool is half-baked interpretations of what's important about someone's clothing.
The discussion isn't about let's intermingle/let's stay separate forever.
All that the dialogue around cultural appropriation asks is that you THINK and LEARN about what you're doing because otherwise you're gonna do something stupid and offensive. If you act in genuine good faith, you're solid.
>>9024947 >implying thats a bad thing >implying fat shaming is the only hope for the world to lose the obesity epidemic >implying you have to stay fat >implying fat people won't die in a carb loaded slow death
>>9024540 The headrest has certain religious connotations, it's not something you just wear around and disrespect. Same with girls who are not Indian wearing Bindis on their forehead but not being married. It's not entirely hyper offensive but it is in poor taste. We laugh here at fedora tippers and their poorly constructed attempts at menswear because it is in poor taste. People who aren't European wearing suits, denim, or t shirts aren't appropriating a culture because these items weren't created for the express purpose of being part of the culture. They were made for functionality. Denim isn't used in some sort of coming of age ritual, suits were not created specifically for religious purposes. Come on man be real about this, both sides are bullshitting about the topic
You do have a point about the headdress but then you start comparing apples to oranges.
Let's categorize religious wear with religious wear. If others can stop dressing up as the pope for Halloween for example.
>People who aren't European wearing suits, denim, or t shirts aren't appropriating a culture because these items weren't created for the express purpose of being part of the culture. They were made for functionality. Suits are absolutely not made for functionality lmao. If they were so functional people would be wearing them 24/7.
On the other hand, the natives had the most functional clothing ever. They wore only what was necessary to keep them warm (like animal skins). They lived innawoods like preppers.
If they want to say their moccasins are sacred, they better not argue when we say our history of fine european shoe craftsmanship are sacred also.
>>9025049 I don't know if I know that feel. I'm half-slav, half-mediterranean. Looking at my family, I think I ended up with the best possible recessive genes, cause holy shit is everyone else in my family tree an ugly motherfucker.
I mean, I'm ugly, but at least I don't look like an inbred fucking peasant.
tbh, nationalism and cultural pride to the point of "if you're not from this country/culture, you have to dress certain ways/can't dress certain ways" is fucking stupid i'm from toronto yeah, and in the wake of that whole ottawa shooting thing a lot of people were preemptively blaming it on isis and saying lots of ill informed anti islamic bullshit and the one comment that made me laugh the most was "if you want to be Canadian you have to dress like a Canadian" and i was just sort of going ...what the fuck does that even mean? Canadian cultural identity is that Canada is a mosaic of culture so technically anything can be considered Canadian dress. nationalism to the point of blind hate and stupidity is well, stupid.
In America, it's people who never enslaved anyone feeling guilty about the plight of people who were never enslaved.
Whites feeling guilty about this is a bit tricky. Why should a German-American Amish feel guilty about slavery? Maybe people with Anglo ancestors who owned plantations should feel a bit ashamed but not every southern person owned a slave, either. In Arkansas, for example 80% of people did not own any. Ashamed is different from guilty though.
>>9025021 Had to go to church real quick so sorry I took so long but how was I wrong?
>>9025063 and alright I see what you mean there about suits, a better way to put it would be that the suit was made with the intended purpose of just being worn. I do believe though people dressing up as religious figures for Halloween is in poor taste, and anyone should be able to wear moccasins but it stops when you get to headdresses and war bonnets. Besides who would wear that as casual every day wear?
>>9024512 >aha! My knowledge I gained from Wikipedia will show these Internet strangers just how cool and smart I am! Maybe they'll all respect me and I can become a cool name fag like pigfuck or sieg! I better throw in an insult to his intelligence to show just how TRULY superior I am!
Unfortunately the dude posting in here is an absolutely fucking retarded edgemaster.
Here's some life advice from someone who used to have a similar outlook on life: Actually think and educate yourself before you say/do something. Stop trying to find any argument, no matter how tenuous, to support your contrarian, neo-liberal-bashing views.
>>9024475 I think your post is what happens when some barely half-clever white boy decides to try to make an argument about culture based on an emptily literal understanding of a term, completely disconnected from any theory, history, or understanding of the human relations involved.
>>9024540 Is a super easy example. He's wearing European clothing because Europeans invaded and colonized the home of his ancestors and launched a campaign of physical and cultural genocide on them.
Their culture survived only somewhat, largely assimilated into the new mainstream North American anglophone one. He was likely raised in both.
The picture is not okay because:
1) It's based on a pejorative caricature of another culture that has no basis in reality.
No indigenous American culture ever was like the cartoon Indians, representations created by white people for white people to demean and other the indigenous.
2) They're claiming a history and a politics that aren't theirs, and not neutrally. They're mocking it, most prominently in the sign that mocks people who don't have native English for not wanting to get slaughtered.
Even if, say, they really thought that the genocide of indigenous Americans was a bad thing, they're speaking for them without consent or consultation, and the whole tone makes it out to be a distanced joke. When white people suffer you'll usually see them get damn humorless damn fast.
anyone who doesn't see the difference between dressing to fit in with the dominant culture in your country and dressing up in traditional clothing as a joke is being purposely dense and not worth discussing with
>>9025744 Why can't a dress in what I want, regardless of what my skin color is? Why do I need a fucking blood test from Dr Mengele that says I'm of pure ancestry to wear a turban or sarong or whatever the fuck?
The people who push this cultural appropriation bullshit are if anything MORE racist than your average /pol/ack.
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