Any of you guys deadlift in weightlifting shoes with a raised heel? I bought these shoes so I could squat ATG, and for that purpose they are great.
But today I tried wearing them on the deadlift, which I suppose makes it essentially a deficit deadlift. My regular deadlift in chucks is 3 plates, but with the weightlifting shoes on I noticed that the pull on my hamstrings was so intense with just 2 plates that I didn't want to add more weight. Is the hamstring recruitment in a deadlift dramatically different with the raised heel? Will lifting with these shoes act as an accessory exercise to lifting in flat shoes?
My ankle mobility isn't even close to being able to squat deep without the shoes. With the shoes I can squat deep and I can always work on my ankle mobilty in the meantime.
I don't have a deep squat at all without them.
A raised heel will slightly change the mechanics of the lift. For squats, it's a godsend. For deadlifts, it's hit or miss. Some people can lift more wearing them, some people less.
If you can't lift the same or more immediately then it's probably not for you.
I will hijack this thread to ask:
Adidas Powerlift VS Rogue Do-Win
This makes sense, but the difference in weight I could lift comfortably makes me think my hamstrings are in fact weaksauce. Is it possible that none of the compounds are hitting my hamstrings substantially? I have short femurs and long arms. Could alternating between the flat deadlifts and the raised heel deadlifts be a smart addition for my hamstrings then?
I think it's putting you in a less mechanically efficient position which is making you think you're posterior chain weak.
You can always do some hamstring work on the side but I would stick to flat sole / barefoot.
The amount of stability my Adidas Power Perfect II has given me is a godsend compared to what I had in my Chuck's. There's no such thing as my feet being unstable at any time during the Squat with them on. I also feel like I hit depth alot easier with them due to the heel.
I too asked myself this question when I decided to buy a weightlifting shoe. The difference for me when I Deadlift is that the ROM is extended very little, but not enough to make me lift less. If you find it a problem then you can just take the shoes off for DL's.
You don't get it dude. I cannot get into the position on the left with flat shoes without taking a wide stance which completely changes the muscle recruitment. I can't even reach parallel in flat shoes without going 150% shoulder width. So no the ROM is not superior, the ROM is fucking shit because I don't have the ankle flexibility to reach the bottom. So the raised heels increase my ROM.
>WL shoes help you to go deeper
No, it doesn't. WL shoes creates a further forward lean, with further protruded knees, and decreases the ROM from the height to bottom. The only reason you think WL shoes increase ROM is because you're one of those retarded fucks who can't even do a deep squat without their heels coming off the ground.
Hurr durr lack of flexibility is somehow equated with retardation. /fit/ is full of people who decided to take the leap from sedentary lifestyles to activities to improve their physical fitness. These people can be understandably lacking in initial flexibility and addressing that is probably going to be a long road, if something such as shoes can help them do the lifts correctly now while they work on flexibility separately there's absolutely zero reason to discourage it. Shitbags like you contribute nothing. Fuck off.
>lack of flexibility is somehow equated with retardation
You realize retardation literally means slowness or limitation. I guess you're mentally retarded as well as physically retarded.
Fucking retards itt.
Weightlifting shoes artificially improve ankle flexibility. This allows for more forward knee travel, allowing the butt/hips to be more in line with the ankles, leading to a more vertical torso.
A MORE VERTICAL TORSO IS THE REASON FOR WEARING WEIGHTLIFTING SHOES.
A more vertical torso is beneficial for several reasons
>mimics the receiving position of the snatch (this is the most important one)
>if you have exceptionally long femurs and/or short torso and you squat with a powerlifting style (high or low bar doesn't matter), then you may experience excessive forward lean — weightlifting shoes can help
>if doing the typical "olympic" squat (high bar, ass to ankles, vertical torso, narrow stance), but not with the intent of helping the snatch/clean, then a more vertical torso will still shift more focus on the anterior chain which corresponds better to the intended purpose of the exercise
>all this shit talk about ROM
it doesn't fucking matter, just get strong at the squat you fucks.
the guy squatting 200kg with 3cm less ROM is going to be stronger than the guy squatting 150kg with "muh full ROM"
Even for people who are able to squat ATG in flat shoes, the deeper they squat the more their lumbar spine would flex. It is usually asserted that a heeled shoe allows for less lumbar flexion at the bottom of the squat for all lifters, and thus a safer stronger squat.
This anti-weightlifting shoe sentiment is pretty ignorant of the lift mechanics.
>WL shoes creates a further forward lean
Weight should be balance over mid-foot regardless of "lean".
>with further protruded knees
>decreases the ROM from the height to bottom
Not true. Relative to the ankle the ROM is the exact same if the knee and hip angle remain the same. WL shoes allow for a more acute knee angle and increase in ROM.
>The only reason you think WL shoes increase ROM is because you're one of those retarded fucks who can't even do a deep squat without their heels coming off the ground.
The "only" reason I think they increase ROM is because they do,both in the sense of increasing the ROM of the system and in allowing the wearer to go deeper. If you're too retarded to understand this then that's not my fault or problem.
Also, nice unfounded assumption about how I supposedly squat rather than addressing the topic at hand.
I own a pair of do-wins and I recorded myself squatting in do-wins and in my chucks both with full range of motion to observe the difference. Less ROM with do-wins. More upright position with do-wins, knees travel out more with do-wins. Anatomy from those positions suggest greater emphasis on quads with do-wins, added emphasis on glutes with chucks.
I deadlift with the raised heel. I logically understand it gives a slight deficit and maybe puts a tiny bit more strain on the hamstrings, but in real life I don't notice any difference and lift exactly the same amount.
It's actually kinda sad when you realize how tiny Olympic Lifters' glutes are.
Why would they want to carry muscle they don't need?
Same thing happens in all weight class sports, at least at high levels. Muscle groups that aren't going to contribute to performance are literally taking up mass that could be on their quads or backs.
Are you fucking dumb dawg? Extended erector spinae = flexed lumbar spine. Posterior pelvic tilt, look it the fuck up.
"Bad form means buttwink" more evidence you don't know your dick from your thumb about squats, 90% off the so-called buttwink is your fucking skeleton. Ever seen one? Femurs can only turn so far in a socket before they will pull the pelvis with it.
Fuck off retard, it's the pulling of the hamstrings that pull on the glutes to pull down for the butt wink. You can squat deep and have your pelvis stationary, and squat down you stupid fuck.
Also the erector spinae is literally on the lumbar spine, you're saying the muscle structure extends while the structure it's attached to is flexing? Fucking die you piece of shit. Abs flex while the spine extends. If the spine was flexing, the abs would be extending during a buttwink, dumb fuck. Seriously die you're fucking shithead.
>mfw people who squat with lifted heel shoes are killing their glute gains
>spending $120+ to get big quads and hank hill butt
You realize the pelvis and femur are in a semi closed ball and socket joint right? One does not pull down on the other. That's like saying you'll have to hunch your back (scapula) in order to do deep dips.
Literally every poster in this thread is retarded.
Some sexy ass shoes right here. Anyone bought these yet?
>being this dumb
up and down isn't range of motion. your limbs don't move vertically, they move in whatever axis the joint permits. the net result is the weight moving vertically but 'range of motion' refers to the motion your limbs go through to achieve that.
It's the hamstring bullshit that is broscience. Your hamstrings shorten at one end and lengthen at the other simultaneously during the squat. Change in length is virtually nil.
>pays $120 for retarded looking shoes that will make people think you're either insecure about your height or you're actually retarded and need straps over laces for your shoe just to get 0 glute development during squats
>implying i'm not laughing at you fags
Reading these threads always makes me realize that no one on /fit/ actually knows anything about lifting.
Why do all weightlifters and high bar powerlifters squat in weightlifting shoes?
I'm sure the glute development from your 2 plate shallow squats is superior though.
Weightlifters use Oly shoes because they lift for the weight on the bar not for muscular development, so they want that extra # from using shoes. Why do you assume squats are shallow without WL shoes? Are you another one of those inflexible shit genetics?
>Why do you assume squats are shallow without WL shoes? Are you another one of those inflexible shit genetics?
It's not "shit genetics" to be unable to go hamstrings-to-ankles barefoot with a straight back.
Post a picture of your perfect squat form.
I'm not even going to address how you somehow think putting more weight on the bar doesn't make you stronger.
>It's not "shit genetics" to be unable to go hamstrings-to-ankles barefoot with a straight back.
Did you or did you not look this the first time you squatted?
If you didn't, you need weightlifting shoes.
>long femurs and short torso AKA the superior build for speed
>implying professional weight lifters aren't faggots
i genuinely can't tell the bait from the retards in this thread
>guy posts a thread about deadlifts
>everyone goes full autist about squats
>i don't even
Didn't read because people said the replies were stupid but I'd just like to tell OP that I deadlift in Oly shoes and I love the stability of them. It's like pushing against a really solid rock. That being said, it's not for everyone and it creates a very small deficit. Enough to be significant? I don't know.
And even some low bar squatters use them.
I still deadlift in them because i like the stability, also i mainly do weightlifting so I don't deadlift too often, anyway.
>implying 3/4 of an inch makes any real difference to your squat that warrants all this shitposting.
I learned to squat ATG flat footed first before buying my romaleos (volts for aesthetics duh) so the raised heel makes no difference to me.
Obviously the biggest factor by far that I've noticed is the stability. There's no way my feet are going to move or rock with these on. The confidence boost during squats is great. You feel so safe and secure wearing them. That boost is enough to add 10lbs to my squat on day 1 of use.
Money well spent.
That's IPF, which has the strictest judging, and the gear is single-ply (so it doesn't completely change the lift like multiply lifting).
Not all geared lifting looks like this
Wei Ru master race reporting in!/seriously though/they've been a godsend for my squat snatch but decreased the weight I rep high bar squats at because they shifted the weight more onto the quads. I'm OK with that.
>Obviously the biggest factor by far that I've noticed is the stability.
Same here. I squated in socks for the longest time, have great flexibility. What matters to most to me is the stability the shoes give. Feels like your feet are glued to the ground.
>not having 100-200 to spend on shoes
>having $$$ to spend on, gear, fake tans, hair gel, ed hardy, bottle service
The people who bitch about spending money always seem to have money to waste on other useless bullshit.
These are the best shoes for deadlifting.
Keep the raised heel ones for squatting.
>buy new red adipowers for $119
>go to gym in them
>hear some guys talk about me
>why is that guy wearing those weird plastic shoes?
>i think he's insecure about his height so he wear heels
>what's with those straps? it's like for old people or retards
>maybe he's retarded haha
>projecting your projections by pretending someone is projecting your projections when he's calling out your projecting
get owned bro, my post was just a quote of your previous post
This. Don't get WL shoes. 1 in 10 Americans actually exercise. 1 in a 100 of those exercisers actually know about weight lifting. Everyone else will think you're some insecure retard who can't tie shoelaces.
and it's already been mentioned before in the thread, squatting with these will take off strain from your glutes, you will have a flat ass and huge quads.
>FUCK better listen to one autist who disagrees with me
You are the one autist. Literally everybody else, from olympic weightlifters to powerlifters who don't wear them because the heel is too much thinks they matter.
>I happen to use these after haven't learnt ATG with flat soles. I've seen no change in muscle activation
You can just eyeball muscle activation like that, huh?
No I just have the uncanny ability to tell when I'm using my own muscles seeing as they're attached to me.
Yet so many lifters do use them? The junior 83kg world record squat was broken recently by Brett Gibbs. Wearing romaleos.... 360kg. It's not too much for him.
the main muscle responsible for hip extension in a squat doesn't perform hip extension in a squat if your heel is raised a little bit, it just does nothing and you lift the same weight as when that muscle was working by magic
>No I just have the uncanny ability to tell when I'm using my own muscles seeing as they're attached to me.
That's not what "muscle activation" is. Do you know what an EMG is?
>Yet so many lifters do use them? The junior 83kg world record squat was broken recently by Brett Gibbs. Wearing romaleos.... 360kg. It's not too much for him.
I didn't say it was for everybody, I just said it makes a difference and I don't see how anybody could say otherwise.
>I didn't say it was for everybody
>.... Literally everybody else....
Oh no you totally didn't just say that in your last post captain autismo.
>that's not what muscle activation is.
So my muscles being used isn't them being activated?
Pls go m8
I know you're just trying to trick us in to losing our glute gains, since leaning forward on squats is the only way to work them.
I said it makes a difference for everybody. Again, it's no surprise you don't think it makes a difference because you don't know what an EMG is. "Muscle activation" can be measured.
moving the ankle up a little bit takes the glutes out of a squat
but also moving the bar down your back a little bit takes the quads out, since pig disgusting rippetoe squat morning fat sits don't work the quads
now what if you did a rippetoe squat in oly shoes, it wouldn't use quads OR glutes, so the bar would be moving purely by magic
>I said it makes a difference for everybody.
M80 you keep going from saying it to not saying it.
Make your fucking mind up.
With proper technique I make sure my glutes are being activated. You just have bad form.
I have no idea what you're trying to argue. Your original post stated
>3/4 of an inch makes fuck all difference
which is entirely wrong.
I don't care about you intentionally activating glutes in your perfect barefoot ATG squat or whatever.
Fuck m8 you clearly haven't been paying any attention to what you've been posting.
>... Or whatever.
Confirmed for not paying any attention to posts.
I can see how you might have meant it in the other way. It's not like it was a clearly stated comment or anything.
What are you talking about? Complete sentences this time.
I've tried it. I hate it. I suspect it might actually work the same way as a pull from a small deficit. Probably depends somewhat on your anthropometry/pulling style too, though.
What am I talking about? I second the notion that you don't pay any attention to your own posts.
You can't even identify the one point in the post that includes my green text quote.
>You can't even identify the one point in the post that includes my green text quote.
sorry that I can't dredge through a thread of shitposts to find what you consider to be a coherent thought.
>yfw Rippetoe, Abadjiev, Yu Jie, Chuan Fu and countless others all have their lifters wearing terrible terrible shoes
>some 2plate squatting skinnyfat faggot on /fit/ knows better
This shit is unbelievable, how is there even a thread or any discussion about this?
I know /fit/ knows nothing about lifting anymore, but this shit is getting out of hand.