Why is SS and SL recommended to beginners instead of ice cream fitness and greyskull lp? ICF and greyskull have the same strength goals and you add 5lb like usual but also include the hypertrophy accessories so you don't looks like shit.
Press F to update the sticky
Enjoy your strength only
It's a fucking ~6 month program. Anyone expecting to look great in that short a time frame are delusional anyways. SS gets you strong fast, you can easily start lifting for aesthetics when you're done with it, you'll just be stronger than you would be if you had done an "aesthetics routine" to begin with.
Because ICF 5x5 is an unproven piece of shit made by a fat piece of shit that looks like shit, has shit tier lifts and doesnt know shit.
Your better off just doing SS with accessories than ICF
>inb4 thats what ICF is
No, its 5x5, which is a stupid idea anyway for progressive overload, with way too much volume and no shoulder and chest gains
First of all, the 3-5rep range is good for strength, 5 is not considered too much volume. For hypertrophy it is considered way to low, as you need 7-15 roughly. Not everyone wants to be a power lifter so making fun of rep ranges when they clearly state why those rep ranges are that they are doesn't make sense.
Second of all, it has OHP, so there are shoulder gains. The incline curls are also for chest. I would question if you even read the routine.
Third, if you think ICF is made by a fat piece of shit look at rippetoe.
Finally, SS with accessories is still bad because you squat every workout.
experts have this happen a lot -- you forget what it is to be a beginner and you start saying that more and more and more should be piled on the newbies. It's not wrong to suggest that they would gain more from it but it is pointless to expect them to be up to speed that fast. Most people who did a whole lot of accessory work would just get themselves injured and/or burnt out.
Honestly who cares. They will make some gains by the power of being a noob, and then 4 months later they will start adding stuff. They will be fine. It will not make any difference in 12 months that can be seen by anyone who isn't also a fitness buff.
>durr strength and mass gains are mutually exclusive
I wish you faggots would fuck off with this broscience. I truly believe anyone who says this hasn't done any lifting beyond SS for a month.
Rippetoe looked good when he competed. Blaha has never been good at anything.
My point of 5x5 being shit is that it has 5 sets, have fun progressing with that once youre past 3 plates.
Yeah, because OHP hits your lateral deltoid so fucking hard.
Rippletits is a strenght coach and his programm is superb for strenght gains, jason blashit made this programm for "hypertrophie", and you wont gain anything but lats and legs.
I've asked this question several times myself, and my conclusion is that most people on /fit/ are either ignorant or retarded. They'll say that SS is the only way for a beginner to make gains, but as soon as you make some very minor changes (Greyskull), it's suddenly going to give you no gains. /fit/ also seems to think any kind of split is bad, even though you will get pretty similar results to SS (see pic)
tl;dr hit every muscle at least 2x a week with intensity and you'll make gains, routine isn't that important
No where in the post does it mention that mass gain and strength mutually exclusive. They are not mutually exclusive. I am criticizing that on SS and SL your ultimate goal is strength. You will build mass on it. But most want a little strength and mass, so it is horrible that it is standard on this board to recommend it to everyone
not sure who you're even arguing against or what you think I'm saying? You generally don't get past 3 plates on these, they're just beginner programs.
OHP is not that great for lateral delts but who cares. They will make good overall gains just by being noobs. They have the entire rest of their training lives to fill in whatever details they find important.
Don't know how ICF is supposed to just give you legs when it has so much more upper body volume?
Realistically with a clean diet and consistency the difference in results between SL, SS with accessories as described in the book from week 4, ICF, & GreySkull LP will be minimal in a 6 month timeframe if not unnoticeable.
It's whichever program you enjoy the most and can stick with. After that once you're done with linear weight progression you can specialise in powerlifting, bodybuilding, Oly lifting, aesthetics, whatever.
Pretty much this.
And if you really want to improve a compound jsut hit it 3 times a week. I'm doing this with OHP because I never did them when I started going to the gym, now my delts are blowing the fuck up.
i'm doing this one with some other plugins. will i make it?
Don't forget that you can add lateral raises to ICF if you want to, Jason approves it (I know that many of you guys hate him, but it's nice that the creator of the program officially says it)
A lot of strength gains come from training the central nervous system to recruit more motor units. A high weight-low rep lifting scheme accomplished just that. Since you're only lifting the weight 3-5 times, you're not stressing the biochemistry within the muscle, but rather the bodies ability to contract the muscle. So this promotes an adaptation within the nervous system (i.e. strength).
When you lift with a low weight-high rep scheme, now you begin to stress the energy systems (as well as the physical fibers themselves) within the muscle and this promotes an adaptation within the muscle (I.e. hypertrophy).
Beginner gains are the most important gains. To just say 'you'll look the same after 6 months either way' is because you don't understand your body on the inside.
Yeah, just throw in accessories at the end of each session (pull ups, dips, leg raises, etc). If somehow (not likely) your arms are still lagging then do some curls or tricep pushdowns.
>You generally don't get past 3 plates on these, they're just beginner programs.
Just because you're a fucking weak skelly... I did 305 1RM on the first deadlift attempt I ever did.
To clarify, this is because much of the muscle's energy is stored within the muscle in the form of carbohydrates and fat. When you stress the energy system, the subsequent adaptation is to increase the size of the energy stores within the muscle.
For clarification, pic related is rippetoe. Still pretty huge.