Having patellar tendonitis, I am suppose to foam roll that bitch to help stuff out. My question is, how much is too much foam rolling? Can I do it in the morning? Or should I only do it after a workout. Or before a workout? Because I work that bitch hard and it gets really painful so idk about before a workout. advice?
I dont know about foam rolling, but I have the same condition OP
There are two very important things you need to do:
1) find any and all muscle tightness in your legs and stretch them the fuck out. It's most likely your calves and your hamstrings. And when I say stretch, I mean like some proper stretches, not some pansy-ass 5 second poses
2) Double check your form on all exercises relating to legs
The pain will NOT stop unless you do these two things. Pain is an indicator you are doing something wrong and something needs to change
I had pataelar tendinitis, didn't let it heal, it turned into tendonosis and then tore. It's not worth it, take a week off of legs while constantly stretching and foam rolling them and see how it feels
I was diagnosed with stage 3(stage 4 = torn the fuck off) patellar tendonitis in august. I used to be an athlete at a reasonably high level.
The situation was bad. Running in general hurt, squatting and deadlifting hurt, the squat would hurt even with just the bar. The situation now is good, deadlifting 140kgx3 without pain, I can squat lmao2pl8 x3 without pain. Running is not an issue anymore.
This is how I've improved my patellar tendonitis:
- take a long-ass-time off squatting, harsh I know, and say goodbye to isolation of the quads
- I did a lot of hamstringisolation, that shit worked wonders, and my hams are strong as fuck now
- stretching quads, calves, hips, the groin, hams and glutes also worked really well
- pressure on the tendon works wonders on everything
- massage your as much tissue connected to the knee as possible
- always make 100andfucking10% sure you're properly warmed up in the legs
Here is some useful links:
BB.com, read everything flex500 wrote
this one is good too
ChalkTalk, this guy knows his shit
I got patellar tendinitis too and had to deal with it for about half a year now. It gets better, but progress is very slow. Don't expect anything different.
True. You can also use knee sleeves to keep the knee warm. They have helped me.
This is also true.
One very important thing: keep atleast 4 rest days between any knee-heavy movement. Make it 5 or 6 days if your knee doesn't feel quite recovered.
But it is important to then actually do exercise after those 4 rest days. Doing no leg exercises at all only makes it worse.
Watch this video and do the stretches: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WLh0jF5M_gY
Do single leg eccentric squats, preferably on an incline board. Come down on one leg very slowly (keep the knee forwards, like a front squat, not like a back squat), then stand up again with both legs.
Strengthen the hip abductors (gluteus maximus and medius). Do unilateral (one legged) exercises. Practice stability.
I didn't write that post, but adequate hamstring strength is really important for knee health.
The adductors usually aren't a problem as they get hit in many hip extension movements (e.g. deadlifts, goodmornings). They are often tight though, so stretching them is probably good.
If you find that your patella (kneecap) tracks medially (to the inside) too much, it could be that your adductors are weak and that you need to strengthen them.
You can test if you have an imbalance by doing both the seated abduction and the seated adduction machine. You should roughly do the same amount of weight (for a certain amount of reps).
I wrote that post.
Yes, as >>31885812 said hamstring health is really important and i would the say that the absolute best excercise for my recovery are Romanian deadlifts(RDL).
AND as the guy from 70'sBig video I posted said: always assume kneepain is product of hip-tightness, doing this stretch https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JawPBvtf7Qs has been a big weapon in my fight for recovery. His videos in general have been crucial for me.
You got me really interested in the adductor thing. I do have flat feet like I said. So I should work with the adductor machine? What kind of sets and reps are we talking for rehab
compression does a lot for PT, get some bicycle inner tubing and wrap it tight around your knee, then do some supported squats.
Also, make sure you're releasing the IT band and adductors/VMO, rolling the popliteus, and stretching calves/hamstrings occasionally. If you're like me and get tendinitis through patellar tracking issues, these help a lot.
I posted that.
I also have flat feet. You really don't want your knees to cave in, but you also don't want them out too much. The knees should be right in the middle, tracking over your foot.
It's important to strengthen the foot arch. You do that by lifting your big toe and contracting the muscles very hard (you will feel it in your calves). Look up foot arch exercises on youtube. I've found that weightlifting shoes help very much for squats. For deadlifts, I take off my shoes and just lift in socks. While doing deadlifts, I contract the foot arches very hard and focus on keeping them contracted through the lift.
The aBductors are important (the aDductors not so much). They pull your thighs outward. So use the abductor machine (see pic attached). I usually do 3~5 sets, with anywhere between 5~15 reps. If you're just starting, I'd do high reps (10~15) and focus on contracting properly. You need to activate the same muscles during a squat and deadlift. So focus on activation first.
How do you contract your arch muscles? Is that flexing them or pushing them down?I've been squatting and deadlifting before this tendonitis with a custom arch. One of those green super feet from the doc. I was told it was okay to lift in them
It's flexing them, making the arch bigger. Watch this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VpPQ8Yk_zjU
You should probably keep the arch thing in your shoe while squatting, but give deadlifting in socks or bare feet a try.
Yeah not gonna squat until this is fixed. But I'm gonna deadlift and maybe do rdls to strengthen hamstrings. So I should not worry about adductors and just abductors? How do you stretch calves? Like foam roll them?
Usually the lateral quadriceps (outer quads) are strong, while the medial quadriceps (also called vmo, inner quads) are weak. The patella (kneecap) then could track too much laterally (to the outside). So you need to strengthen the medial quadriceps and the hip abductors. This is a problem I've also experienced.
look up the calf stretch, but also try pic related; calf tightness and ankle tightness often go hand in hand and one can be confused for another
Do this calve stretch: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYi9kxDxQZ4
And do this hamstring-calve stretch (dorsiflex your foot so you feel it in both the hamstrings and the calves): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDuAEa4ZCMs
If you have 'supple' flat feet (as opposed to 'rigid' flat feet), you can improve it a lot. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flat_feet
Look at your leg. Are your inner quads small? Is there a difference between your legs? Place your hand on it, extend your leg fully, and try to contract them. Can you contract them slowly and then also slowly let them relax again? Do they fire (contract) right away, or does your outer quad contract first and the inner quad follow a bit later (delay)?
yeah he's referring to vmo. Specifically, innervation of the vmo relative to the rest of the quads it seems. I've had this issue a lot in the past, and find step ups to help strengthening regardless of diagnosis
physio told me i had some calcification on the tendon. he said this was causing crepitus but he didn't really checking anything else.
he then said the only way to remove this was through surgery or 'pining': jabbing it with a pin to make it regrow.
currently i have almost no pain.
anyone have any experience or insight into this?
I was doing high bar squat and didn't know my knees were caving. When I found out it I already had pain in my knees randomly throughout the day (but not when squatting). Is there anyway to reverse the damage?
it's more that done correctly it strengthens all the surrounding musculature. I'm not sure it cures flat feet though.
I believe the best you can do with isolating the vmo is turning the toes outwards laterally and doing light quad extensions. Double edged sword though because you have to then worry about the damage an open chain exercise can do. I prefer to just squat/front squat carefully.
I can agree with this.
>And will help push out the knee from being inverted naturally via flat feet?
You want to keep your knees in line with your feet (see pic "normal"). You don't want knee varus (knees too much out) or knee valgus (knees too much in). Both are bad.
Turning the toes outwards shifts the load slightly to the inner quads. I've found that the only way to exhaust my inner quads before my outer quads was to do leg presses with 30~60 degrees knee flexion, while focusing on putting force on the medial (inner) side of my foot.
>I worry about the effect of open chain exercises on a compromised knee
Yup, I wouldn't use leg extensions for anything more than high-rep, low load warm-ups.
I'm not sure why you mentioned that again though? Leg presses are a closed chain exercise.
Pain is almost never a good sign. Although I went through 4 PTs, I still recommend you see a physical therapist. A sports doctor could be good to see too.
I got the Rehband knee sleeves and I like them.
I've never used a patellar tendon strap, but I've read that they distribute the load on the tendon more evenly by providing pressure. Clarence Kennedy (clarence0 on youtube) has got severe patellar tendinitis and also uses them, so they're probably helpful.
If you're getting one, don't skimp on it. Get something high-quality.
The thing is, I cant go to a pt or doctor, no health insurance lol. I could go to the guy my mom sees but thats 188 miles away. SO I wana try to fix it with the shit in this thread
It took about a year and a half for mine to heal. Mine was bad enough that I once did 'something' during a game of netball that caused it to give way. It didn't test according to the doctors I've seen since, but the pain was bad enough that I passed out and was in the ambulance before I woke up.
Anyway I literally just did stuff. Took about 3 months off of leg and deads, plus a lot of movements that I could feel in my knees (seated preachers is the only one I remember). After that I started hiking a lot and light legs. It hurt up until 4 months ago when it just started to get better. I didn't really rehab it seriously. I just rested it.
Don't fuck around with this. Go see a local PT and pay for the session (it's probably less than $100). Or go to your mom's guy.
We can only help you so far. You need someone who can see you in real life.
I don't advise strapping or using a support. It's usually caused by weak supporting muscles that cause the knee to be unstable during movements and put pressure and tension on the tendon. Strapping it doesn't make those muscles work. Sumo squats are good for those supporting muscles - hip abductors and adductors I'm pretty sure are the ones I mean.
I wish that was true, but rarely is due to structural imbalances, movement patterns, and plain old fucked up musculature.
I believe they keep the kneecap in line with the central line of the knee. Well, at least that's one of their functions.
it's probably just regular tendinitis rather than tendinosis
you have an issue that needs fixing, probably weakness
>I believe they keep the kneecap in line with the central line of the knee.
They do? I thought patellar tendon straps (see pic) merely provide pressure on the tendon, while knee sleeves keep the knee tracking better.
Would that be the tendon? Looks like the patellar ligament to me
Also looks completely useless. What does a little pressure do, and how does it affect your hamstring tendons behind the knee?
and yeah, basically a lot of people have fucked up knees in some respect, and the exercises will do a lot for preventing regular injury, but probably won't be enough for trying to reduce that to low risk. That's where the sleeves come in, because they keep you warm and stable
I thought this too, but spoke to a podiatrist (yeah I know) who tried to correct me. Apparently the pressure on the tendon keeps the patella grounded and only the contraction that happens during flexion is sufficient enough to move it (and then only vertically)
>Would that be the tendon? Looks like the patellar ligament to me
Patellar ligament is the same thing as the patellar tendon. (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patellar_ligament)
>Also looks completely useless.
It's not. Olympic lifters use it all the time.
>What does a little pressure do
>and how does it affect your hamstring tendons behind the knee?
I'm not sure, but I don't think it has any negative effect on them.
>I thought this too, but spoke to a podiatrist (yeah I know) who tried to correct me. Apparently the pressure on the tendon keeps the patella grounded and only the contraction that happens during flexion is sufficient enough to move it (and then only vertically)
That's very interesting actually. I'm not assuming (?) it for truth, but I will keep it in the back of my mind.
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