What is /fit/ opinion on Lyle McDonald's "The Rapid Fat Loss Handbook, A Scientific Approach to Crash Dieting" diet for quick fat loss?
-Its a protein sparing modified fast (PSMF) diet. This mean something like "ketogenic starvation diet".
-You calculate your LBM and BF%. With this data you are classified in one of 3 categories.
-Your caloric intake is given by LBM multiplied by the protein/pound established in your category (something between 0.8 for obese and sedentary people to 2 for lean and highly active people). This means a HUGE caloric deficit, between 800-1500 kcal.
-You can only eat lean protein non-starchy vegetables. Some carbs and fat are tolerated but only if the consumption don't mean a big portion of the total caloric intake.
-You have to take fish oil (or pills) for the omega-3.
-You also need to take some multivitamin.
-EC stack it's highly recommended.
-Depending on your category, you have some weekly free meals (0 to 2).
-Depending on your category you have some carbs refills.
-Depending on your category, the time you have to do the diet to hit your objective you, may very: lean people, 11-12 days; slightly overweight people, 2-6 weeks; overweight people 6-12 weeks.
-You can lose 10-20 pounds in 2 weeks, wich a high % will be water weight.
If you want to read the booklet here its the pdf version:
For those who dont know, Lyle McDonald its the guy who runs www.bodyrecomposition com, wich is recomended in the sticky.
I am like 25%bf and I think that this can help me to drop some fat in a short time frame. I rather suffer 1 month and have some good results that suffer a little bit less for 6 months with another diet.
I haven't read the book, but I have personally done a low carb diet before and I got good results. PSMF diets are generally recommended on the board as the fastest way to cut. Make sure you drink enough water if you're doing a ketogenic diet.
This. I love carb based foods, but when cutting, low carbs is what works best for me. Just plain chicken or beef with vegetables, can eat up to 400g of each per meal and it fills me up way more than its equivalent in rice, pasta or beans.
Also protein is always good.
Nah, that seems a bit extreme. Keep your expectations low and realise you're in it for the long run. If it does come that fast then you can be pleasantly surprised.
I'm cutting at 1000/1200 cal deficit and I lose about 3 pounds a week max, and starting yeah, might be at about 10 to 15 pounds for the first couple of weeks.
Just start doing it and see your own progress though. No more excuses, no more reading. Dive into it.
This. The last thing you want is to give up because you're not meeting some unrealistic expectations.
If you cut right you can lose fat quite quickly, but don't push it at the expense of your health.
I dont want to dive into it. I want to plan it through. I am a poor fag and I want to buy the protein and the multivitamins that I will need. Oh and the EC stack. It that really necessary? Because it's illegal in my country, but I sill can get it in the black market.
Also, how bad are the first days? I read that are tough until you get used to the keto shit.
Really? that bad? What happended?
I've never done an EC stack. It's definitely not a necessity, but some people swear by it. Personally, I'd skip it, especially if you can't get your hands on ephedrine easily.
Also, if you enter ketosis, be prepared for the keto flu. You'll feel like shit for 4-8 days. Just weak and run down. Power through and it'll be smooth sailing.
Fuark, 4-8 days? I tough it was like 3 days max... Even with the refills?
Thats seems way too few calories.
Its there something to avoid or at least soften that "keto flu" shit?
I can maintain my weight. I weighed 110 kg and now I am in 83 with 20-25%bf after 2 years of effort. I learned a lot and gained some muscle (did some bulk).I just want to drop to 10-15%.
Thanks for the info.
I can tell you my personal experience with it.
It works really well. Used to to jump start on a healthier diet. Some issues I ran into were:
>increased muscle cramps
Most likely due to lack of sodium in my body since I forgot was using no-salt seasoning on my chicken and use of the potassium supplement advised in the book. Even driving my fucking car could trigger intense cramps in my legs and feet. Added some sea salt to my 1.5L jug of water and that fixed it up.
>increased body heat
I was taking the EC stack at the same time. I felt warm all the time and my energy was insane. Don't EC stack if you work somewhere or live somewhere really hot and you have no way to keep cool. You are going to be fucking miserable.
>can't miss a meal
I missed a meal because some faggot stole my lunch and my nearest food establishment to where I work is too far for my short lunch time. Didn't take my second EC stack and on the way home, I felt my body turn to fucking mush. My senses dulled, my vision became hazy, the whole world slowed down and I could barely walk. I literally thought I was dying for awhile until I ate some food and got like an hour of sleep.
I was on a 1.2K calorie diet, so missing a meal on top of the EC stack revving my internals completely fucked me like nothing else. I had to stop because my lunch getting stolen started becoming a frequent thing and I didn't want to put up with that shit again. Also, I figured I lost a fair amount of weight at the time so I figured it was about time anyways.
It works, but don't fuck up and be careful.
PSMF is brutal, but it works if you follow it to the letter.
Most importantly, get some salt with potassium in it and use that on your food. When you get dizzy on PSMF, it means your electrolytes are fugged. Since you have basically no water retention, you're gonna need to stay on that shit or your cardiovascular system will leave humanity behind.
I didn't have any problem with keto flu. I think the EC stack helped me sort of muscle through that, but I don't want you to think it'll have the same effect for you. Also my work was pretty fucking sedentary, so I don't think I felt as bad doing it since I was barely expending any energy outside of the EC stack revving me up.
Don't use common table salt (iodized shit). Use sea salt. You don't need a lot, just like have a table spoon for 1.5L was what I used. Then I threw in some mint leaves for flavor.
Imbalance between potassium and salt causes muscle cramping, if I remember correctly. Now that I eat a more "normal" but healthy, I don't have that problem anymore since I use seasonings liberally, which I should have when I was on PSMF.
I probably ended up experiencing what >>34425863
Good luck dude.
>So I will need to drink gatorade or something like that?
Gatorade and Powerade are meme drinks.
Follow Lyle's supplement guidelines. Use a lite salt brand that's half potassium salt and half sodium salt (see pic) and regularly sprinkle it on your food. Take magnesium citrate tablets. Drink plenty of water.
You shouldn't be if you aren't retarded.
If you decide to EC Stack though and fuck up, I suppose possible to die if you are THAT retarded.
Ease into it with smaller doses.
Some people are scared of Keto type stuff because they are scared of the "Keto Flu".
Keto Flu can really suck sometimes. It can feel like someone is drilling into your skull. Other times, you feel nothing other than slight lethargy as you ease in.
As for EC stack, it's harmless unless you're either retarded or have a previous heart condition.
Yeah... I don't live in usa...
I google some salt brand... I have somo "Light salt". 33% sodium chloride, 66% potassium chloride. Is this one what I need to use right?
Just to be clear, I just need to "salt my food"
I am scared of not being capable of keep my normal life. I am of forgetting my electrolytes I have a fucking heart attack. I am scared that, after all, it may not worth the effort.
So ease on it will mitigate the effects?
Add some light salt to your food. You can add some to your water bottle like earlier mentioned too.
When you are on this diet, you are going to be pissing a hell load of water, so you'll want to keep your electrolyte up because you'll deplete them faster than usual.
Don't drink too much water either or you'll do that thing where you have too much water in your system and fuck yourself up. I forgot the name of it, but you could die from that. Something like your diluting your body with too much water.
Easing into the EC stack will let you see how your body responds.
You can't "ease" into Keto. You need to do it and see how it hits you.
Been on it for only a week and 1 day so far have lost 12 lbs planning to do it for 6 weeks or at least till I get abs Still maintaining strength slight weakness but not much. From my limited experience:
1-First 3 days are the hardest you will feel like shit and get hunger like no before (not using EC stacks) once you're past that you're home free.
2-Follow the book to the letter you are a novice you know nothing do not fuck with anything follow to the letter especially the extra minerals and tablets and such.
3-Don't take caffeine before bed shit is stronger than coffee and kept me up for ages.
4-Prepare the meals in advance, and make sure you have 1 tablespoon of psyllium husk with every meal for good bowel movement and also because that shit helps filling you up.
5- diet Sodas are your best friends for the first few days.
If you have any more questions i'm happy to answer to the best of my knowledge.
It's honestly not that bad, I could be just the exception but when you wake up after that 1 week period and you see the difference from when you started and see clothes start fitting you better there is no better motivation and cheering up for the day.
Amount of water recomended?
I rather suffer a couple of weeks than a couple of months.
what is your %bf?
>Don't take caffeine before bed shit is stronger than coffee and kept me up for ages.
Why do you take caffeine?
>diet Sodas are your best friends for the first few days.
Why? I dont drink any kind of soda.
Thaks for the info.
Also, can you tell me your symptoms?
No shit sherlok
Water should be in the guide, but if you are pissing too often, that's your queue to slow down.
Also, taking caffeine most likely for the EC Stack, Ephedrine + Caffeine to give a serious boost to your metabolism. Will increase your body heat, have to becareful not to overheat yourself.
That's why following this program recommends that you don't do any real heavy cardio or exercise, although some weight lifting is OK and will help.
I've used it before with very good results.
However, I also went a bit over the top and never took deliberate refeeds, but did wind up binge eating here and there.
I lost a lot of weight but also a lot of muscle.
It's seriously good cutting, but you better damn make sure that your girlfriend understands that you CAN NOT be eating her bullshit.
I also think it might not be the best for trying to get below 10%, I think it might be just too harsh and you might have better luck trying out the Ultimate Diet 2.0 by Lyle McDonald.
All I can say is, if you're going to do it, do it by the damn book. I fucked up and burnt off a shitlaod of muscle as a result without getting below 12%/
>what is your %bf?
When I did the 3 point measurment and even a 7 point one I was 21% bf however I think i'm 24-25% (Just bulked too hard babys first bulk)
>Why do you take caffeine?
Because you will feel lethargic I work 9 hours a day for 5 days a week and lift for 3 a week.
I don't take caffeine in weekends and i'm fine without it.
>Why? I dont drink any kind of soda.
I never drink anything other than water and when bulking it was milk, but on this diet for the first few days you will need to force drink 1-2 litres of liquid minimum to help with hunger and also stay hydrated. Due to the fizziness I get fuller with them, if I could do it with just water I would've because it's cheaper and better for you but lyle himself allows you diet sodas.
>Also, can you tell me your symptoms?
First few days (2-3) felt lethargic and hungry all I wanted to do is binge eat like a pig but thankfully my willpower has improved after actually cutting and bulking for past year.
Afterwards honestly it feels like back to normal hell it even became a struggle for me to finish some of my meals.
Just as an addition my 3 days are Mon and Fri are pretty much what >>34425551 recommends meanwhile my Wednesday is just to practice some oly lifts with pretty much 1 pl8 so light weight baby for only 30 mins.
I normally do Texas method but the 4 day template found in PPST3 however the stress is too much for so little calories so stuck to what Izzy does.
I would have that in mind. Thanks
He said that he is not on EC stack.
Thanks. I dont want to be extremely lean, I just want abs. 15% and I will be fucking happy.
Also my gf is medical doctor (I dont know how to traslate that) and she is against this. But I am the one who cooks so...
>I was 21% bf however I think i'm 24-25%
Do you have any photos? I think that I am like 26%bf because I can sligly see my upper abs.
>Due to the fizziness I get fuller with them,
Ohh ok goo tip.
>First few days (2-3) felt lethargic and hungry
thats it? Nice to know.
Also, why 6 weeks?
Nice. I dont think that I coul lift...
>He said that he is not on EC stack.
Yeah not running them since can't find in UK and my caffeine is only 75 mg a day you're allowed 300mgs and izzy even took 400mgs but 75 are doing me fine.
>Do you have any photos? I think that I am like 26%bf because I can sligly see my upper abs.
I have taken photos but sorry man not confident enough to show them at least not until I get some results.
>Also, why 6 weeks?
Well in the book that's the limit you can do it for as a Category 2 dieter and also I feel like that's the time needed for me to at least get some abs if however I get abs at 4 weeks i'll stop at 4 weeks.
But biggest thing you need to do is actually read the book not skim it actually read it, the way it's written is pretty easy and gives you good information on nutrition especially since the book has 600 references.
>Nice. I dont think that I coul lift...
You need to lift to maintain whatever muscle you have, If you've never lifted before you can follow the routine lyle provides or delay your dieting by 2-3 months and do SS without GOMAD.
However, a guy has done it without lifting and got decent results (found his pic on body recomp forums)
Another symptom if it can be qualified as such is i'm more anti-social now because of how strict this diet is I haven't gone out to restaurants with people unless it was my Free meal day so if you are very sociable I would recommend doing a normal deficit diet since there is no point in being so strict but not getting results as you're cheating 24/7.
Just DONT do EC stack, it's literally not necessary to lose weight.
At most you'll save yourself a month or two in total, while chemically unbalancing yourself and even leading to serious medical problems if you do it wrong or have some previous conditions.
It's not that important.
>I have taken photos but sorry man not confident enough to show them at least not until I get some results
C'mon dude, help me out. I just want to see your %bf.
Thanks for all your advices. Anything else to have in mind?
No, is not. But I will help a lot with the metabolism slow down. I sure that that means shorter "keto flu". And I am not that retarded. And why so taxative with the "NO EC"? Give me your reasons.
Sorry man still no but looked up bfat for you and i'm closest to 25% just add hairness and that's me
Some people think EC stack is the worst thing in existence and will kill you just ignore him as long as you don't go retard with them they're presumably safe.
RFL is for fast weight loss UD2.0 for a slower normal approach
I read it before I tried this guy's routine, and I'm doing just fine after 2 months.
>I am like 25%bf and I think that this can help me to drop some fat in a short time frame. I rather suffer 1 month and have some good results that suffer a little bit less for 6 months with another diet.
I started at 25%, and I did it for a month for get under 20%. Starting with a keto diet made regular dieting so much easier.
Keto can be achieved with high protein or high fat.
Guy says it in book afaik obviously you have low fat on this as your aim is to retain muscle not to battle epilepsy.
Ok thanks man, you are great. I think I am right: I am close to 20%, 23% maybe.
I need to do some financial math to see If I can afford the EC stack.
I think that are fairly diferent diets altohoug both are ketogenic. That guy eated fat and 2000 kcal. In RFL you dont eat fat (just fish oil) and the deficit its higher.
Do you did a keto diet or you did this one?
You have to eat fish oil (or pills). And Lyle says its a kerogenic diet.
I have found a better (and cheaper) solution.
This is not just keto. Its worst kek
I don't really have an opinion on it OP, unlike you - you I think are a massive faggot.
tl;dr you, i don't like you. back to reddit.
I did on a normal calorie deficit, was 25% bodyfat maybe more though with a deficit of 500kcal. Got my squat to 140kgs for 2 from total beginner and my bodyfat to around 15%. Just don't go too crazy with the deficit I guess.
You know that quote is by a eugenicist right? He was one of the first people to suggest the use of gas as a way of humanely killing the genetically inferior.
There's nothing wrong with eugenics, I just thought you should know, Alexis Carrel was a wise man.
>He was one of the first people to suggest the use of gas as a way of humanely killing the genetically inferior.
You would kill 70% of the USA since they're overweight.
Maybe he was ahead of his time after all.
Does his other book teach you how to count calories properly?
That's my biggest bump in the road, it's confusing the fuck out of me.
I know you can make beef patties with cheese and heaps of veg, but outside of that I think all that's left is bacon and eggs for breakfast.
How much time took you?
Well, this is not like that. Read de OP and you will see.
Yep, in your country. In my country its illegal. I can get it, but its expensive, at least to me that I am a poorfag.
Nop. But the buy have another one about fexible dieting that may help you. Or just use the MyFitnessPal app
I can vouch for it. Hard as hell if you're not used to extremely severe calorie deficits and/or ketosis, but definitely doable. I wouldn't recommend it as the approach for someone cutting for their first time.
EC stack helps a LOT with energy and hunger suppression. The lack of food selection tended to bother me more than hunger itself.
If you're already relatively lean, I wouldn't recommend RFL since it's only run for 2 weeks at a time if you're 15% or lower. Look into Ultimate diet 2.0 or flexible dieting instead.
Don't expect to gain strength on the diet, and definitely don't overdo the cardio. Your recovery will be severely impaired when your intake is that low - save your activity for when the diet ends.
Finally, don't skip the refeeds or diet breaks. They're there for a reason.
>I wouldn't recommend it as the approach for someone cutting for their first time.
I've never been in a real diet before, I'm 25% bf, and my friend said just to diet regularly as keto was dangerous, and best used by experienced people watching to get from 15% to 10% BF.
Is this true? Should I just stick to a regular diet?
I did it at 25% bodyfat to to around 15 % in a little over a month .My diet was really strick
1000 calories a day no more
For protein I had chicken breast tuna and protein powder
I had a bunch of greens spinach broocoli kelp lettuce peppers
1 gallon of water at least
1 hour of LISS in the morning and night
Full body 3x a week
Maybe a month and 2 weeks, but close enough.
I had 4 meals a day.
Egg whites scrambled for breakfast, tuna twice in the day, and chicken for dinner. All with heaps of greens.
I had the same thing for a month and a half.
I didn't do EC stack, I just took an electrolyte supp.
It's not dangerous, just difficult. Adherence is the most important part of the diet, and if someone had never gone into calorie restriction before, it may be too much for them to stick to. Kinda like jumping into the deep end on your first time swimming.
Other than that, go for it.
Hard to say. It might be doable in a month, but might take longer than that. You can always run it for a cycle then reassess where you are when it comes time for your first diet break.
Read it. It's worth the time.
eat less, more healthy food. burn calories by doing cardio.
you honestly read an entire book instead of actually just doing it, this is the problem.
If you follow the diet as laid out, there's virtually no way you'll ever leave ketosis except for on the refeeds/diet breaks.
That being said, keep in mind ketosis isn't the primary goal of RFL - it's more a side effect of the heavy calorie restriction.
You don't believe you could achieve that with 3 months of strict dedication and lifting?
What do you realistically think it took him to reach that?
I'm actually inclined to believe him as he obviously wasn't that much overweight to begin with. Results will vary depending on the person, so perhaps his genetics played a factor.
have either of you been in a gym?
stripped 5x5 is considered a beginner's routine. You can find it on the sticky as the "easiest" routine for people who are completely brand new to weight lifting because it literally holds your hand through it and explains what you should be doing and why you are doing it with very simple to understand terms and explanations.
It's really fucking easy, just read it yourself and you'll understand.
He probably chose that one for that very reason.
That pic would only apply if it was a debate, which this isn't. You're just stupid if you think cardio alone grants weight loss.
Oh cool, sounds just about right for a RFL dieter.
I'm still reading the book, and I've read the wiki, but not the different strength programs.
I'm still dreading counting calories.
holy fuck this is a literal life saver
I've been on it for 30 minutes, and I've already planned a week's worth of food
*Generated by [Keto Calculator](http://keto-calculator.ankerl.com) 9.0*
31/M/5'8" | CW 207 | 27% BF | Moderately active
* 1503 kcal Goal, a 42% deficit. (979 min, 2592 max)
* 10g Carbohydrates
* 144g Protein (91g min, 151g max)
* 99g Fat (41g min, 219g max)
So uh, considering my BMR should I just stick to 1,200 calories a day to lose as much fast as possible before NYE?
*Generated by [Keto Calculator](http://keto-calculator.ankerl.com) 9.0*
31/M/5'8" | CW 207 | 25% BF | Moderately active
* 1296 kcal Goal, a 50% deficit. (1114 min, 2592 max)
* 5g Carbohydrates
* 140g Protein (94g min, 155g max)
* 80g Fat (60g min, 223g max)
This if you're going to stop around Christmas.
never paid for the book since the basics are scattered about the internet for free, but lyle seems to know his shit
1. he doesn't fuck around or cushion anything, it's all straightforward
2. he's not afraid to take the moderate stance on any given topic, which is often the most accurate but least popular answer
I'm in the second week now and this is my current progress in kg.
When the weight jumps up its usually after a cheat meal because of water retention.
As you can see it shot up today because I had the free meal yesterday.
Tomorrow I should be back at 128.5 and lower.
I think the progress is alright so far. If I keep this up until christmas at that pace I'd be down 16kg overall which is huge.
i've used it a few times before. works pretty good. only problems i have are chicken gets stuck in between two of my molars and it's hard as fuck to get out, and i never do the recarb thing he's talking about like it works.
but even he recommends just doing DNP if you can score it so i use that
It's gonna be alright if you slow down a bit though, don't have insane expectations. Usually when you just start in the first couple of weeks you can lose it that fast because water weight and stuff.
If it keeps up, perfect, if it doesn't, dont get discouraged and keep at it.
I dont know if it will slow down much as I did start off with lower water weight from a previous different approach, but we'll see.
As long as it keeps going down I'm fine, its not like other ways will speed it up much.
When the tendency remains going down its all cool. I might make a graph at a later point when I get enough data for motivational purposes.
>but even he recommends just doing DNP if you can score it so i use that
Are you high