First time posting here; I hope this is an appropriate place to ask this (wasnt sure if this goes here on on /sci), but exactly what technologies would be affected by a major emp blast, either by a mega flare or a weapon of sorts? What devices would still be usable in a worst-case scenario of such an event? This is not a "how to prepare" question, I'll save that for /out/ or /pol/.
Everything that isn't EMP shielded would die in a major blast.
Most cars rely on electronics to run now, so that means most transportation is out. Old cars would still work.
So trains, buses, most trucks and lorries would all be dead instantly, which means the entire transport network for food and supplies for cities and the whole world would be fucked.
Add that tractors and farm equipment would get screwed too and you have significant agricultural problems.
I don't think I really need to go any further. You can't grow anywhere as near as much food, and you can't deliver it to cities. That's about as worse as it can get.
No, the US goes back to before agriculture times. The livestock that used to pull ploughs don't fucking exist any more. The ploughs themselves don't either.
Agricultural output is going to fall so fucking sharply, and it will take a few years to recover at least some output.
Best case scenario is that everyone leaves the cities to work on farms, so that few people die of starvation, but everyone now has a life of hard backbreaking labor.
Realistic scenario is chaos as millions of people starve to death and the network that kept modern agriculture going breaks down.
You think you can grow crops without modern petrochemicals? The topsoil is gone, buddy. The phosphorus comes from mines halfway across the world. The fertiliser needed to replace the topsoil comes from the petrochemical industry. An EMP pulse would knock these industries out.
Once the supplies run out, agriculture just fucking stops on 90% of farmland.
You don't quite understand how fucked we are.
You do know about the relationship between magnetic fields and electricity right? A large magnetic pulse will induce a potential difference inside electronics, putting dozens of volts through a teeny little microprocessor that operates at 3v.
Although, a large EMP pulse is more likely to push thousands of volts through shit.
In 1800s, there was a solar flare that melted power lines.
Yes many industrial devices are EMP shielded (I mean cmon what do you think the worry of the Cold War was). Sure a great amount of consumer shit would go done, but most would be.
Many old tractors/modern tractors are simple with minimal electronics.
Toasters, light bulbs, vacuum cleaners, anything without chips. That's provided you have a source of electricity, who knows how long power plants will be dead for, and all your batteries might be fucked as well.
Time to make a wind turbine out of a washing machine.
the average modern microcontroller has human body model or better ESD protection on all pins except analog input. some have it on all pins and include brownout/short prevention (automotive motor control). you can zap those all day with 15kV and they wont even reset.
The issue isn't the electricity it's units that need a certain flow for safety. So generic wires should be fine, but some of the large scale power grids would warrant a checking.
a solar flare doesnt actually cause small electronics to fry, the big problem with large flares is that they turn the entire energy grid into one gigantic antenna to soak up all those juicy electrons falling from the sky, and it fries substations everywhere
the only option would be to disconnect every major power line in advance and wait out the solar storm in a nation-wide blackout the may last days
I guess we should first find out the area spread and size of such EMP weapons before we jump into catastrophic conclusions. How many of such projectiles would have to land on US to deny any response (=> catastrophe)?
you will find out soon enough when China starts shooting them at you.
But really, some fairly intense calculations would be made, out the league of /g/, besides the 300k starting math majors of course.
I prefer "Anata Dake No Kuso Anata Wa Sukoshi Meinu, Watashi Ni Tsuite Nan Seikō O Itta No? Watashi Wa Anata Ga Watashi Wa Neibīshīruzu De Watashi No Kurasu No Toppu O Sotsugyō Shitte Iru, To Watashi Wa, Al - Quaeda Ni Kansuru Tasū No Himitsu No Shūgeki Ni Kan'yo Shite Kitadeshou, To Watashi Wa 300 Ijō Kakunin Sa Reta Kiru O Motte Iru"
>get a bunch of discarded microwaves
>put your electronics inside of them
cant put a car in them but perhaps you could put spare car parts in them? Or perhaps a thing such as a radio or other useful electronic tools?
can you also buy shielded electronics?
I've resigned myself to the fact that living in Western Europe has given me practically no chance of surviving the imminent EMP caused apocalypse.
>huge population density
>small land mass
>practically no inhabited land
>so, SO fucked once the looting, rioting, pillaging and robbery starts. You Americans are far better off than us.
some countries have a "we must be able to feed our entire population with the crops that we produce ourselves" policy. So it may not be that dire. Just check if your country also has one of these things.
Have you not been reading the thread? Even if a country were self sufficient now, they wouldn't be able to produce 1% of the food they're currently churning out. Not to mention the fact that all communications and logistics beyond smoke signals have gone out the window.
Oh, and good luck organising those rations during apocalypse caused mass hysteria
>they wouldn't be able to produce 1% of the food they're currently churning out.
Yeah they would. It'd go down to about 10% production. No topsoil doesn't quite mean ALL AGRICULTURE STOPS NOW
It just means that it's like a 90% reduction, factoring in the loss of industrial agriculture methods too. Animal fertiliser would still be viable. Literally horse shit.
But not enough for everyone.
Factor in that current food production is about 2-3% greater than use, and that food is not being stockpiled by any government, and bam.
If you want to survive, concentrate on surviving 2 winters. 2 winters of starvation will kill so many people that there suddenly might be enough food being produced. The sharp drop in population will continue until production is high enough.
EMPs in general won't cause to much damage outside of an initial disruption to the way lots of shit is run.
in most cases any electronics will have plenty of metallic shielding between them and the source.
but if you're close to the source and essentially in the direct field, most of the time the pulse will just create a huge pulse of current. which will just blow a fuse, which is readily replaceable because that's what it's for.
shops might be out of service for a while, most CBDs have their phonelines underground now and well shielded from damage, which essentially shields them from EMPs but not designed for it, most peoples mobiles near the source would be fucked though. traffic lights may be out for a bit. but i doubt it, i just have no idea how they're designed.
essentially, it's not even remotely scary as movies suggest
>tfw far away enough to maybe dodge EMP
>slow death due to no food imports
Shit's so expensive that even the junk we import is cheaper than anything homegrown. I think people are really underestimating the effect of scale of manufacturing. I hope LED farming can make it in time to save us all.
>surrounded by water
>can even just catch fish with some dumb sharp stick if you really cared to
There is a reason why many civilizations stayed near coasts/rivers. You wont die, dont worry. Coastal/large river places will have it easier.
It's not your geographic location which protects you at night time, it's the rotation of the earth; IE complete luck. And flares are likely to blast the earth for more than 12 hours anyway
Although now that you mention it, it would be a good place to keep a whole bunch of electronics, farm equipment, and general equipment you'd need to run a modern agricultural system in cold storage.
If you were in Northern Norway/Sweden/Finland then food is readily available. I know that in Norway and Sweden it's illegal to hunt wild animals so there's a sweet bounty of tasty rabbits, reindeer and polar bears.
Although now I'm thinking about it surviving an arctic winter would be pretty extreme.
Yes they are, otherwise you would be microwaved too. The inside where the food goes is completely shielded, not the electronics of the microwave itself, those are outside of it. Place your cellphone inside it and call it up (obviously dont turn the microwave on)
You don't seem to get the idea that no matter the ready availability of the food, it will not survive a massive population trying to eat it all at once.
There will be no rabbits left, no reindeer, no polar bears. It will all be eaten, as well as the protected animals too. Starvation doesn't give a shit about protection, or self preservation of the food source.
There's enough wild animals to hunt for 10% of the population, but by the time there are that many people left, the wild animals will be gone.
Well there will be lots of that too, but not enough. First thing that will happen is that people will join together into racial groups. Or some other defining factor. Then the racial groups will fight over resources. The winning groups will then fight among themselves, causing people to scatter everywhere looking for food. Still too many people.
The extra strong solar activity in the 1800's didn't actually melt powerlines unless they were really badly engineered to begin with and had a high internal resistance (electricity + resistance = heat).
What what the flares did do was that it damaged transformers and caused extra noise in telegraph lines which from what I hear freaked out telegraph operators.
Also, you people are seriously overstating the damage an EMP would cause. Pretty much all processor controlled electronics, from embedded ones like thermostats and electronics in cars to to mainframes, are shielded with a faraday cage construction. To damage shielded electronics it'll take a pretty massive EMP even by standards of one caused by a nuclear bomb. Let's not forget that cars also have fuses what are basically one time use circuit breakers to protect the electronics from voltages over the specified ones.
As for the effect on agriculture, other than fuses there's still plenty of farm equipment that doesn't even have microcontrollers as those didn't start showing up until the late 80's and early 90's. Thus far equipment has a double protection, lots of old pre-microcontroller equipment lying around and fuses the same way cars have.
I also remember that some fcc guidelines specifically mention shielding. I think that all electronics these days are more rugged than most want to admit. These things were shielded for our convenience for problems that are not related to nuclear emps (lightning strikes, overloads, interference etc.)
I am not sure but I think that the bulk of electronic will survive. Especially those that are even better shielded in basements and behind walls or accidental Faraday cages.
Naked and Alone
Watch these, google some videos on field dressing, skinning and tanning animal meat, pick up a could good knives and whet stone, a good bow and arrow for hunting, maybe a magnesium starter until you get better at bow drills.
Good to go.
There's this thing called STP and also pic.
Some lines might go out but not everything.
After a week everything will be back to how it was.
NOTHING WILL HAPPEN!