>>46722191 >>46722206 seek help m8. it's minimalistic and perfect. only highlighted when you're about to press it. it's a fucking button, what, you want it to use unreal engine 4.7 for vista-like gay animations? fucking hell people
>>46722241 >only highlighted when you're about to press it
That's precisely what's wrong with it!!
A button that does not have an outline of it's boundaries is retarded! It's much more intuitive to know where to click if it is a square.
How can this obvious regress to 1980's GUI be allowed? Aero looked so gorgeous. I drooled so much at that shit. I can't comprehend how these 5 year-old drawings can be considered "it looks nice" in comparison.
>>46722394 So we've progressed bounds and leagues in processing power, and finally when we can power 3D based GUIs with awesome effects and transparencies, we suddenly go back 30 years to something my freaking 286 could do. Worst! It's even more simplified than freaking Windows 3.11!
>>46722531 There is a minimal difference of RAM usage between 7 and 8, and it certainly isn't because of the transparency or fancy looks, because DWM draws in almost the same way. In fact, it's possible to keep Win7's look with transparencies and all, and the memory usage is the exact same. Pic related, it's Win8. So that's no excuse, what now bitch?
>>46722984 >Never was much of a fan of the glass aero stuff. I had my jaw on the floor the first time I installed Vista and all those 3D animations and gorgeous blurred transparencies kicked in. But hey, you could always disable it if you didn't like it.
>>46723048 >Maybe I'm just weird. But my eyes are capable of seeing color differences without them having a huge border that looks like it's poking out a bit but not really. I'm sure you'd like it if your light switch were just a one pixel floating x in the air and you'd have to guess it's dimensions.
>>46722113 I know, it's utterly moronic, isn't it?\
Not only have they gotten rid of gradients, highlighting (differences in contrast or color), and visual leads. Now they made the grouping and colors on the top bar worthless as well.
It all exists to offload what processing is done by what parts of the brain, and how easily that information can be stored and manipulated in working memory. Now, not only are you left with some blank monochromatic bar that your eyes have to trace to find the edge of every damn time, the buttons on the side aren't even colored. Yes, you can't even just look for "red", you have keep everything in the most logic and frontal parts of your brain that consciously process symbols and look for an "X" next to a bunch of other symbols. It is moronic and inefficient, it's like they're trying to remove every single bit of usability UX they've ever done.
The icing on the cake? It turns red WHEN YOU HOVER OVER IT. That's right, it turns useful visually the second you don't need it anymore and have already done all the work finding it. What. The. Fuck.
Personally I don't mind flat design when done good. But it's rarely done good. >For fucks sake, designers, when making a button, make sure it's actually a button, not just floating text that's not different in any way from the normal text. If you really hate borders with a passion, at least make all buttons different color. I need to know at first glance which parts of the interface are clickable and in which area around the button text the click will be registered.
>>46723250 Is there a registry key to enable the glow on the text? I can't seem to find it.
>>46723277 >How did you get to to look nice. When you were installing you should have unchecked that option (see pic). That will make it use the native windows 8.1 theme. You can also use your own custom atlas file.
>Also getting some really weird "Aero Glass for Win8.1" text on my desktop. You have to donate to remove it but I got the registry key to do it from some site. Let me see if I can find it for you.
>>46723589 You need to be using an atlas with a glow. He has some on the site. And even then you'll have a problem with the explorer windows missing the glow, but I'll help you when you get there if it bothers you much. First get the glow working in general.
Let's be serious here for a moment. What exactly is so rigidly barring Microsoft from doing anything remotely right?
Internal hierarchy issues (typical of middle management)? Some interest we're not aware of? Being just too broken and detached from reality?
I mean certainly nobody with half a brain can sign off on this. I see a case of some higher ups dictating what they want and the actual people implementing it being shoveled into making moronic choices to comply with those guidelines. Nothing about this makes any sense.
Like was mentioned above, the X only turns red after you hover over it. It's as though with every step in that icons slow change to red, there's some beaten down programmer, somewhere in the company, saying "we tried. plz don't hate me".
>>46723275 >can you fucking laymen please stop pretending you know ANYTHING about design and leave it to us professionals?
Sure, but only after you sissy faggots thank us all, the hackers and programmers who develop the software you take for granted, like Photoshop, Illustrator, Blender... or even fucking Mac OS X which uses A LOT of free and open source software.
Software created by many of our community members because we all believe in MUH FREEDUMS. Which, of course, you could never understand because you're too busy sitting on your dildos while sucking Tim Cook's dick all day long...
>>46726927 Aero is the most intuitive and natural way to allow the brain to automatically impose depth and spatial concepts on an OS environment that has come about so far.
What you're suggesting is that it's a positive step forward to eliminate the ability to subconsciously and intuitively know what window is where relative to each other (or the desktop, which is inherent base layer). It isn't, it's simply removing a feature and forcing the user to replace it with inefficient ways of processing stimuli and planning how to interact and complete any given task.
Pic related. Which object is which, and where are they relative to one another and yourself? You barely need to think, you already know. Now close that picture, close your eyes, and try to visualize and answer again, to yourself. You still, already roughly know. The brain stores and processes depth information that efficiently. Opaque "flat" objects are one such construct that is not stored or processed efficiently, is not able to be manipulated mentally, is not descript, and does no let you interpolate what is likely behind it. As macro objects, they tell little beyond what they themselves are, which ain't much.
Honestly, I find it a bit ridiculous we even have to have this conversation. It's like the reality, and the mind you experience is drastically different than my own or any other neurological model ever created around observations about human functioning. Notions of working memory and cognitive load? Nah man, that ain't you. Depth perception? Nope. Spatial reality relative to planning tasks? Nope again, it's like you intrinsically know everything. Well, good luck to you then, have fun with Win 10!
>>46723040 >Now no one can choose! This so much. Have Windows 7 and don't like Aero? Aero eating too much resources? TURN IT THE FUCK OFF AND STOP COMPLAINING. It's not even enabled by default on a fresh Windows 7 install.
Aero was the best thing to happen to Windows since Windows 2000 (seriously, that win+tab) and they remove it in the next iteration in favor of some flat, square bullshit. They could've kept Aero as an option, but noooo, can't have that. You can't even switch to classic Windows theme anymore. I honestly don't know a single person outside of /g/ that didn't like Aero. Like, really.
>>46723163 Does the abstraction of button space and non button space really require that much brainpower for you guys? I'm legitimately curios from a UI design perspective. Are textures, delimitations, and gradients important to keeping a productive workspace? What is the right balance between a minimalistic UI and a textured UI?
>>46727091 This is a point, but my main gripe is...:
Transparency is the best color. There's only one reason not to use it, and that's resources. The blur is there so you still can distinguish things. Sharp edges, minimalistic UI and so on is fine. But why have a flat color? Unless you have a flat color background it looks pretty stupid, oversimplified, doesn't fit in. Guess what? transparent fits in everywhere and anywhere. It fits perfectly whatever wallpaper you choose, and even what part of the wallpaper the window is over.
i have strange feel they do it on purpose to let Apple live and profit on their eye candy consumer toys They need eachothers patents, Apple needs Microshit because they are shit in anything else and Microshit needs Crapple in game because of muh-monopoly
>>46722901 Windows 10 is for phones, pcs, laptops and touch devices so while areo might sound like a good idea on desktop it is definitely shit on other devices, that's why we have minimalism. That looks convenient on all devices.
>>46730263 >>46730267 I'm running 8.0. >On Windows 8, there is no official way to install this software. It depends completely on you how you install the library into your system. You just must ensure that it will inject into dwm.exe and explorer.exe processes
>>46730605 >boot time on those things is very good compared to Windows.
I bet it uses some kind of hybrid suspension shenanigan, like Win8 tries to use. I disabled that shit as it gave me problems and only shaved about 3 or 4 seconds of boot time. When you have an SSD you stop caring about those things.
Minimalism is the best artstyle for any given UI, is able to use the least possible resources and makes your workspace clutter free. This is inherent to minimalism, whose focus is to remove the superfluous and accentuate the details—the important.
I've been stuck with Windows 7 and his stupid kiddy flashy wobbly wubbly shit lmao juzt liek reel glass and its down syndrome flashy depthlike icons for a lot of years and I've been very jealouse of the cleanness of Windows 8. I'm looking forward to get W10 as soon as possible so I can enjoy an aesthetic working enviroment.
>hurr le ebin trend
I liked minimalism since W7 wasn't even a thing, fuck off.
>mfw people advocate for going back to retarded flashy kiddie shit
>>46731630 >mfw people advocate for going back to retarded flashy kiddie shit No, anon, minimalism is the kiddy shit. Look at all these bright and flashy colors. It's like I'm working on a fucking Fisher Price theme.
You know, for talking about how the brain works, I'm not at all convinced that you actually do know how it works.
For the record, I don't look for red or an X when I want to close my windows. I look to the top right of the window and then click the rightmost button. It could have a thumbnail of Mickey Rourke stuffing a pineapple up his ass and I'd still know which button to press.
What the buttons look like is largely irrelevant to the user experience. You're just trying to take something that you, subjectively, don't like and make it something that you can objectively criticize, and that's fucking retarded.
>>46731844 >What the buttons look like It's not about what the buttons look like, even if they're hideous this way. It's about the delimitation of the button! Where is the button? Where does it start? Where does it end? It's all a guess until you look for it. Delimitations are more intuitive.
>>46731877 If you can't derive by deduction the boundaries of a given window button, given that you have seen how it was on previous iterations for the past years, your IQ is under 70. Too bad for you.
>>46731877 The button still gives visual feedback when you mouse over it, which is enough, because you don't really know where your cursor is going until it's gotten there.
But if we're to subscribe to your way of thinking, we ought to have every street marked along the sides for parking. I mean, if you come along an empty street and want to park along it, where do you park? Where are the spots? Do you park near the bench? Do you park on the left or the right? How do you know?!@?
>>46731920 Yeah you know, average IQ'd humans can see patterns and probabilities, and the probabilities that yet another iteration of the same fucking desktop metaphor has the same button boundaries is very high. Go ahead and call me fedora, I'll still be right.
>>46731901 >derive by deduction the boundaries of a given window button Yes, that's exactly what I want to be doing when using my GUI, deriving where shit starts and ends by deduction! Not by visual cues, no.
Just stick with Windows 7. By the time Windows 7 loses support, Windows 11 will come out. Hopefully by that time the curry nigger will have been fired and replaced with a competent human due to low sales of Windows 10.
>>46726487 gTFo. All they did was take the shine of their already shit-tier traffic lights, that have always been in the wrong place anyway. Cant maximize a screen better than win 3.0 did to being with. Go drink bleach and Coors Light.
No, red is not a symbol nor a symbolic reference, which aren't apt to be processed through the same channels as basic color recognition (with an associative context based notion of affordance). This is what is meant by "efficiency", avoiding neurological bottlenecks and providing as much clarity with as little visual clutter as you can. It's so that under any degree of mental load, in any task, in any mood, there are multiple different ways the brain can process in parallel.
>For the record, I don't look for red or an X when I want to close my windows. I look to the top right of the window and then click the rightmost button. We do roughly the same thing. Now let's talk about how we do it, specifically, in a flat and minimalistic environment like Windows 10. Do you look for the window's rightmost border, then trace it up to the top where the X will be? Does it depend on where your eyes are at the time? Do you look at the windows title and just skim over until you see symbols or what looks like an "edge" to act as a signal? What if you have a lot of shit up everywhere? Do you take the brute force approach and just skim the entire top border? How much and where does your process depend on what you're doing at the time?
Or... do you just flick up to and over at the top bar where you roughly know the edge is and at the same time, over completely different white matter tracts, using completely different brain regions that are already processing visual stimuli before your conscious mind even knows where your eyes have flicked to, click on the red X, or the rightmost of the clear buttons? See there, you have 3+ ways to do the same task, in the same instant, using entirely different brain regions. That is efficiency. In Win 10, that efficiency does not exist. [Character limit]
>>46733377 >What the buttons look like is largely irrelevant to the user experience. You're just trying to take something that you, subjectively, don't like and make it something that you can objectively criticize, and that's fucking retarded. >What buttons look like is irrelevant to the user experience >You're criticizing something you subjectively don't like Make up your mind. Are the relevant, or not?
Of course they are. The issue here is that it can be made objective and quantifiable if you actually think about and model what's happening. Then test those things, think about them some more. Etc. There is a right way to do something for the majority of the population, and wrong way. Some things might be intrinsically wrong for everyone, but who knows.
It's the same reason you don't see purely symbolic UI, relies on working memory and pre-existing knowledge. Nor do you see purely linguistic ones, it's clutter prone, and the brain tends to try to process linguistic stimuli in a serial way, with multiple sources, it tends to rapidly between the two while losing much of both. So, how do you mentally solve this problem? You can load in memory what you know about the UI, a general idea of their spatial relationships, and then parse the beginning of each piece and skip it when you see it isn't what you want. Maybe apply some kind of iteration, depends. With a shitty flat minimalistic UI, this all gets harder. The same general process goes for pure symbols. Trial and error, load mental map of known functions using available spatial ideas, etc etc etc. When in reality you could just skip the bullshit and put a fucking symbolic reference to known affordances, and couple it with a linguistic aid. Group them in sections. Maybe add a color, depends. Humans have a spectrum of capabilities, this is true, but it can and ought to be resolved to an objective and quantifiable basis. Then these ideas can be used to expand intelligently [Limit, again]
>>46733398 With Windows 10, Microsoft has thrown away 20+ years of UX, iteratively refining and implementing ideas, things that actually worked. And replaced it with almost nothing, they've added very little of real value. Anything decent is diluted amidst all the missteps they're rigidly sticking to.
>>46733448 I posted that ~19 hours ago. I'd already been awake for a while then. I'm still awake, and have to leave again.
There's a lot to be said about this whole topic, and a lot of ways to say it. If this thread still exists when I return, I'll try to respond. Otherwise, wherever it goes it up to whatever and or whoever.
>>46730327 >>46730551 >>46730410 Yeah, I realize it could be "fixed" by "upgrading". But this is what happened when I tried 8.1: >install 8.1 breaks install completely, forcing me to re-install. >Install 8.1 directly, Don't want a single one of the added features, and hate the start button and new search >Install 8.0 again, all is well.
>>46730661 Nope. The .exe just extracts som dll files.
I like both the new Metro/Modern UI style and the old Aero style. Hell, I even like Yosemite and Mavericks' style. The most important thing for me is that the theme is consistent throughout the entire OS and applications.
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