>>47415799 That depends on the energy level of the beam. Lasers can easily burn things, or even cut through an inch of steel with enough power and the right focus. Are beams used for communicating that powerful? Definitely not. I still wouldn't wave my hand in front of one though.
>>47415698 >>47415753 This The delay will be too fucking big to do anything other than basic information transfer. No multiplayer gaymen, no video streaming, no web pages with images (if there are conventional web pages that is), no bullshit. We'll be back to late 1960s
>>47415822 The Earth and Mars are 401,000,000km apart at farthest in their orbits, 55,000,000km in their closest. The average distance is around 225,000,000km. The Sun to the Earth is 149,598,261km.
If it takes around 8minutes and 20 seconds for light from the Sun to reach the Earth, then very sloppily rounded, light speed communication from Earth to Mars would take 22 minutes 30 seconds.
So worst case scenario for a colonist on Mars communicating with NASA is that there could be a 22~ minute delay. That definitely isn't good enough for any sort of emergency communication. Since bandwidth wouldn't be a problem though we could beam them all of earths shitty TV shows, news, and things like that. Average time would be about 12 minutes 30 seconds.
>>47415680 >Humans develop technology to manipulate gravity in small quantities >Send coded gravity burst back in time so that by the time they reach the destination they will arrive at the same instant they were sent
Creating miniature wormholes from 1 planet to another, and sending data at whatever photon frequency is most stable. Whilst not instant it will be significantly faster than any typical transmission method.
Since wormholes are essentially sending energy from one location to another producing homogeneity in the Universe, makes sense to utilise it for energy transmission. Obviously kinks related to out of order photons appearing will need to be addressed. And I'm not sure how much power would be needed to sustain such a tunnel though spacetime, but the positives far outweigh the tremendous power requirements if so.
Depends on how interplanetary civilization works. Considering we'd need technology for that, that we do not have at all, I'm going t o say we will use that technology in establishing communications and eventually the internet too across planets.
>>47416037 you got to take into account the delay of the local network, so let's say you have a 100 ms ping to the server that then sends the packets through gravity, then calculate how much is the latency and send it 100ms earlier
>>47416285 no need to contradict Einstein, just to circumvent him. Do some silly shit with space, and instead of making the signal faster, make the distance smaller. That is (theoretically) possible. >>47416327 Quantum entanglement shouldnt be able to send data ftl, because our current understanding of physics says that data cannot move faster than light. Only things that dont carry information can. And besides, can quantum entanglement send useful data? dosent it just allow you to know the state of the other atom if yours is known?
>>47416510 Thats too simplistic to do it justice. One paired atom suspected in a cell could have any number of positions. It could be moving constantly. Varying patterns of motion could all be expressed as separate values. Oscillate them in a wave form and you now have a single atom signal carrier operating at whatever frequency you can physically manipulate the atom at. Every additional paired atom gives you more lanes/bandwidth.
The only downside is that this is essentially point to point communication, nothing like a radio, though it could easily be used as a repeater, to carry on the same signal to another array of entangled atoms.
>>47416821 PS: Most other stars we couldn't even think about reaching yet.
Many are very, very far away indeed. Even halfway across the milky way (~100,000 LY in diameter) would be something that we couldn't really imagine doing as a project with a generation ship and computers and all, even if all of mankind was aboard.
The closer ones are here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Local_Group
Further away is... uh, much, MUCH further away. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_galaxy_groups_and_clusters
>>47416839 It wouldn't know, but the broadcasting of select parts of the internet's information would be a "best guess" what people outside want to know about earth, for example.
It'd still arrive 4 years after events happened on the original planet in the *VERY* best case (closest known star - we don't really expect habitable planets in the space between, though I guess maybe we could have some habitats or ships there eventually).
Might be 80000 years for a colony at the far end of the milky way, and ~13.3 billion years at the furthest away galaxy that we've spotted. [Not that we can get there - as I already said before, right now, we can't imagine a trip that long to be succesful.]
>>47417084 PS: If we could pull off 1G constant acceleration for a century on a ship, we might reach the actual border of the universe that we can currently observe in 1 - 2 human generations (left-hand side of graphic).
But earth might very well be actually gone when we -or news from the arrived expedition- come back, as you can see in the graph on the right-hand side.
What if we make a really long silver or gold wire between Mars and Earth. Electrons in the wire don't move from one end to the other, but all of them shuffle along at a slow pace. The time taken for each electron to do one shuffle in the wire would be the ping, which I imagine would be smaller than the time taken for light to travel all the way from Earth to Mars and vice versa. All we need to do is get Musk to make a 225,300,000km long cable. To reduce resistance it'll need to have a decently large diameter so its going to take a lot of silver/gold to make. It's probably not going to be able to handle much bandwidth so the wire could be used only for things that need ping but not much bandwidth. For stuff the needs bandwidth, the data can be transfered with light.
We'd have to figure out how to manipulate wormholes in order to reduce the latency issue, any data transfer would be limited by the speed of light essentially. "Voices Of A Distant Star" gives a good idea of how bad the latency would be.
>>47416285 >Wut? I assume we mean Earth-Mars when we talk about interplanetary Internet, and Mars is only .00000589429108 light years away. no dude you're not thinking logically Even at that distance, it would take a long time (>10 minutes easily) to send and recieve a message. That is theoretical, but irl there would be a massive packet loss, more than third worlders experience today. it would take multiple broadcasts to transmit a message and receive it whole. TCP would be hard and slow to use, because of the time it would take to transmit, send a reply and retransmit. That all not taking in account the collosal amount of noise that god knows what radiations would offer Its pretty complex
What if we change the orbit of Mars so that it is closer to Earth, possibly by moving asteroids so they crash into the planet altering its orbit. That would make the data connection between the two planets better.
>>47418006 We don't even know if it's possible to create wormholes at all, let alone stable ones that would allow for information transfer - it could very well be that they're merely a quirk of General Relativity that'll go away once we understand better how gravity and quantum mechanics interact(and even then, stable wormholes apparently require negative energy to keep open - good luck getting that). And even if they ARE possible(both theoretically and in practice) that still doesn't mean we'll be able to easily make them. So, not soon. Maybe in a century or two at the earliest.
>>47415779 But you cannot get past the speed of light issue. >>47415858 I think the bigger issue is not the weight of the page, but the delay. Gaming would not work, bu video streaming? Sure. You just need to announce that you are going to watch this video a hile before you watch it. That is, if it is not already storred locally.
>>47416057 >Creating miniature wormholes from 1 planet to another, and sending data at whatever photon frequency is most stable.
Most stable, you say? That sounds like someone in ancient Egypt postulating about the performance of jet engines verus propellers for driving aircraft. Why do we trust you?
Assuming we can increase bandwidth or compression id say that massive database dumps would happen at scheduled interval since having real-time connections are mostly impossible for the foreseeable future.
>>47415680 Since they WONT change all the legacy software they'll do a new data link and physical protocols to interespacial data exchange, and maybe IPv10/A since well have access to the network even through our anuses. Can not wait for that shinny new future with quantum computers the size of a satellite being programmed in COBOL for the space Jews.
And since this shit never happens as you predict it I'll go with something crazy and say they'll have some future peeking technology and fetch and send your stuff before you begin to think about it.
>>47415799 There's no point in increasing the throughput when the critical factor is the latency.
Here's a really shitty analogy that might be useful to laymen:
I have a pair of dice. When someone rolls their die and it comes up with a number, the other die is guaranteed to come up with the same number when rolled. However, the first number rolled is random and you cannot decide what the second roll will produce. Worse yet, the second person has no way of knowing when the first person rolls the die.
So you have two dice which are guaranteed to come up with the same random number. You have no way of deciding what number will come up and no way of knowing when the other die is rolled. So it's completely useless for communication.
As I said, that's a shitty analogy. But I think it gets the point across.
To become interplanetary you need either FTL or Cryo. If FTL then we'll have space bending technology so we can just send the signal from A to B instantly which would basically make internet even faster no matter what the distance.
If we go Cryo first then yeah you'll have shit tier internet you'd be better off just using a database to gain access to information you need.
>>47418466 Mate, I just told you it's not a matter of saying things because opinions IPv6 has 2^128 possible addresses. That's 340,282,366,920,938,463,463,374,607,431,768,211,456 That's A FUCKING LOT That's 40 times less then the estimated amount of ATOMS in the universe.
>>47418566 >>47418466 Also we could assign an IPV6 address to EVERY ATOM ON THE SURFACE OF THE EARTH, and still have enough addresses left to do another 100+ earths. It isn’t remotely likely that we’ll run out of IPV6 addresses at any time in the future.
>>47418508 It only takes a few years to get from Earth to Mars, bro. And that's with our current chemical rockets. For interstellar travel, generation ships are more likely than cryogenics, since we still don't have anything CLOSE to working cryogenics - we can freeze people in a way that's theoretically survivable, but we can't thaw them.
That's still huge, though, certainly vastly overkill without hugely speculative shit like FTL travel and self-replicating nanobots. And if we run out, 256 bit addressing will last us literally forever because that would allow us to give an address to every group of a few thousand atoms.
>>47418597 I understood the meaning of the words. I don't understand his point. The fact that its semantics not jargon doesn't tell me what he was on about, so I'm just going to assume you're as stupid as me.
That doesn't really get the point across. Saying it's 10^40 times smaller makes it seem tiny.
What I think is better is to say that 512 bit addressing could provide trillions of trillions of addresses to every atom in the universe, and 512 bit addressing is to IPv6 as IPv6 is to IPv4.
People don't realize that doubling the number of bits has a HUGE effect, far beyond anything humans are really equipped to understand with our monkey brains. Even people who understand it intellectually can't grasp the scale.
>>47415858 >tfw the only viable way to to play multiplayer with people from other planets is to organize an interplanetary video game league, where teams of the best players from each planet get to travel through space to compete in a zero-latency environment on other planets
That actually sounds kind of cool.
I'm sure that someone will come up with an interplanetary MMO or something with very low latency requirements at some point, though. Even if it has to be designed around several minutes of lag.
>>47418582 >>47418566 You underestimate human greed & stupidty, for what would your average chump need over a hundred mail addresses? For the the same reason he'd get a trillion IP's of course, after all there's a lot of them and they're free.
Single bloody addressed devices? What is this, the year 21XX?
Reusing old addresses? But what if, what if we actually create a COLLISION!? Better give him a new one.
What?! The niggers on Uranus are asking for the whole 188.8.131.52e.75.73.XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX range for themselves?
Etcetera. I truly believe well find a way to exaust them regardless of how many do we create.
>>47418596 >It only takes a few years to get from Earth to Mars, bro Actually it would be more like 6 months with current tech but you do have to wait for windows where the orbits line up properly. This window is only available about every 26 months so you better be pretty committed and ready to stay there a while.
Orbiters and rovers tend to take much longer because its cheaper and easier to take a slower route so they can use less expensive rockets to send them on their way. A human crew would make travel time important though so they would have to use a much higher delta-v trajectory.
>>47416510 >it has 2 states no it's actually both and neither and every other state at the same time, we talked about quantum calculators a while ago:
"A classical computer has a memory made up of bits, where each bit represents either a one or a zero. A quantum computer maintains a sequence of qubits. A single qubit can represent a one, a zero, or any quantum superposition of those two qubit states" -wikipedia TL;DR no it doesn't have two state but instead a lot more, so you probably will never have it and quantum entanglement is too expensive go for laser with satellites relays
>>47418940 I don't think it works that way. Pretty sure you realistically will transport less information than on a classical channel, it's just safer since only the owner of the entangled quantum can use the classical information in a meaningful way.
>>47418545 >>Quantum entanglement. >this. so this.
What is Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle?
Also, absolutely any method of transferring information faster than light can be used to send information back in time by special relativity. That is a way big problem that probably rules it out. There's several effects that propagate faster than light, but none can transfer information.
Realistically paired particles could likely be used for encryption or authentication because of the way they work in tandem but there is no way to influence a particle to actually send data over the pair without breaking the system.
Do you think the Internet would be less cancerous if the le funny maymays couldn't spread as fast? I imagine browsing the net on Titan would be pretty fun, at least until all the newfag colonists arrive.
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