Well, I was just working on mine. I'm a first year student and I'm trying to get something like a summer internship at a network engineering company. I want to get some real-life experience, after just messing around in a home lab setting. Writing it in LaTeX, of course. I have a hard time thinking of what to put under networking.
>>47615539 >>47615568 Even when I'm Dutch, at least the first company I'm sending it to is Dutch, and all the clients are Dutch? Translating it shouldn't be a problem though, and I thought about doing that anyway.
I'm going to guess that despite low headline unemployment, the low participation rate and part-time for economic reasons numbers, combined with the complete lack of any wage pressures, mean that companies are still not inclined to lower their standards and accept "warm bodies", and instead still prefer to not hire rather than accept someone with poor experience/qualifications.
>>47615544 >Is it best to just have one page and more simpler content then detailed and have more than one page?
One page. Make your descriptions as concise as possible.
Remember to write the resume for the job you want. I've made the mistake of writing the most correct description of tasks that I did, rather than focusing on, um, reinterpreting the description for my intended audience.
For example, if you're going for more of a lead or managerial role, you'd want to reduce the amount of detail on spewing technology buzzwords and a little more on bullshit MBA buzzwords that describe how you leveraged existing resources to push through a new solution that synergized multiple departments and increased overall throughput.
I've only done a couple years' worth of interviewing, but it's always annoying to get some two or three page resume. Just give me a minimal overview of what you did, and I'll ask you for more information about the stuff that seems relevant. I'm evaluating your ability to clearly explain things verbally, too.
>>47615688 >s, mean that companies are still not inclined to lower the I would go with "if you're qualified and fit their environment, they'll hire you." This is 4chan so I'm going to preface this with saying I'm not trying to be an asshole, but I've never applied for a job I didn't get. I knew what I was getting in to, tailored my resume for the specific position and employer, and played the game. A little finesse, not too much, and do your research. You'll float to the top, at the very least.
>>47615688 >and instead still prefer to not hire rather than accept someone with poor experience/qualifications.
Probably true. Employers don't want to take any risks these days. It's kind of laughable.
Personally, I've always been a straight shooter, but fuck that. From here on out I'm going to lie and fabricate the experience that employers imagine that they want.
"We're really looking for a candidate who can hit the ground running."
"Nigga, I've been a professional software engineer for two decades. I've never once hit the ground IN ANY OTHER WAY."
Seriously, technology jobs are ALL ABOUT learning on the go. I've hardly ever done the same thing twice. Yet I'll get rejected for a job because I'm missing one out of the ten unrelated technology requirements they have.
Oh my fucking God, yes. I had some jackass ask me a retardedly unrealistic question about how I'd go about, I don't know, looking up a phone number in a list or something. I told him, "I dunno, I'd probably spend some time Googling search strategies".
He got all horrified looking. Let me tell you, Googling is a critical part of HOW I REFINE AND DEFINE A PROBLEM. It's not looking up a solution, it's an active part of how I come to a solution.
Every person I've worked with who has been in the sort of "anti-Googling" camp has always written the shittiest, most unmaintainable code. They're always reinventing the wheel ten times over because they never bothered to look around and realize tools and libraries already existed to form a decent solution.
>I'm one of five Americans to work at [huge tech company] in my hiring fiscal year
>>47615836 >>47615852 Someone called me out for not "reaching far enough," so I wanted to clarify that reaching for the sake of seeing where you fail is a pretty boneheaded strategy. I could've gone into HFT and finance, but thats not my strength - so I shot for the top in tech, which is why I gave the advice I gave in >>47615811
>>47615811 I'm more worried about what happens when you know you're not qualified and don't fit their environment. I know I can pick shit up like >>47615824 talked about. But I don't have experience and qualifications. And I have to hide the fact that I'm a nine-to-fiver who's only doing this in the first place because he needs a paycheck. Employers, rather understandably, try very hard to keep people like that out.
I'd prefer not to give up and say "well, retail is the best I'll ever get", but I'm starting to think that might be the case.
>>47615964 I came into what I do (system engineering) from a 100% retail background. Granted, I had also just graduated college - but just to check, you're applying for some kind of associate level position or something more senior? At the associate level, its supposed to be implicit theres going to be heavy onboarding and training (even if its informal, like follow Ted around and learn how shit really goes down).
>>47616031 I'm a fuckup from r9k. I have a two-year degree and dropped out of a four-year program (ironically, because I couldn't pass the "experiential learning" requirement, where they tell you "okay, now go find an internship, and come back when you have one") I have some scattered experience, and some old coursework, but really barely enough to fill a page.
I'd be perfectly fine with some low-level sort of thing; if I got an offer for some glorified help-the-real-IT-staff deal for like $35k, I'd take that. There don't seem to be many such jobs advertised though. There are plenty of Senior this-or-that Manager Analyst and such listings every time I look on Monster or in the newspaper. And, as you say, it's not worth bothering applying to something you're that far underqualified for. I get turned down for entry level stuff too though, testing and QA, tech support, a few general IT monkey sort of deals. I'm guessing that there are a lot of people after entry-level anything, and as a result they don't need some neet in his 20s, they can get a more energetic and better qualified college kid. I've looked at internships too, all seem to have the requirement that you be an active student, so that's probably out.
>>47615964 >And I have to hide the fact that I'm a nine-to-fiver who's only doing this in the first place because he needs a paycheck. Employers, rather understandably, try very hard to keep people like that out.
Oh man, this one's hilarious.
In my first job out of college, where I was vastly, vastly more qualified than any of my peers, the engineering manager loved me. Then I had to go to HR. The HR guy's brilliant, insightful question was to ask me, "would you say you're into computers more as a profession, or as a hobby." I almost laughed in his face, then said some bullshit like, "well, I don't think you'd get to my level of experience at my age if it wasn't both."
Software Engineering, and probably tech in general, is the only employment area I'm aware of where employers actively expect that prospective hires will work all day on programming/tech, then go home and spend their spare time working on the exact same thing.
I had a girlfriend who was a CPA. None of the accounting firms would ever ask, "so, can you show me some tax returns you worked on in your spare time at home?" I've literally never heard of any other industry where an employer would expect that you personally go home and do more of what you do for the sake of learning things to ultimately benefit your employer.
 he actually said "computers". I was a recent grad CS major, math minor, who was interviewing for a programming job at a manufacturer of digitizer tablets.
Fun Facts: 1. If your GPA is low, don't list it 2. Always put experience over Education if you have it 3. If you have good internships and relevant job experience, you can remove "Taco Bell Cashier" off your resume 4. DO NOT BULLSHIT. One C++ class doesn't mean you know C++ enough to put on resume. 5. Temper expectations, 95% of you wont make 80k out of school. Take what you can get for job experience then build up to that good job. 6. Use recruiters, job fairs are usually a wash and cold calling is even worse. 7. Frats mean nothing, sorry for wasting 4 grand
>>47617965 It was just a simple script that looked at who and from where people were trying to log in and with what username. Looking at this report, you could assume that China is a huge botnet (lots of logins, lots of unique attacking IPs), some guy in Indonesia is really persistent (lots of logins, only 6 IPs used to login), and attackers love logging into test accounts. Corporations use intelligence like this to make decisions on what needs to be secured, etc.
>>47618325 How much of a focus on programming is there, though? I remember there being a decent amount. I'm a terrible programmer, so I don't want to get myself 3 years in and realize I'm not cut out for it.
>>47616162 Ive noticed some job listings lie About the required experience. They're bullshitting and only dream of getting a 5+ yr guy for their lowball wage. They fully expect the guy they hire will be a beginner. My boss did that.
>>47618463 I can honestly say I've never seen anything extremely sophisticated (eg. Stuxnet). Most issues we have are users falling for really stupid shit you can't mitigate like email attachments and stuff like "cutepuppies.jpg.exe". There's only so much you can do as a security team.
But yeah most of the time it's super obvious brute forcing blowing up the firewalls. We always assume it's a mask for something else.
>>47617677 >95% of you wont make 80k out of school.
That's shitty. I graduated in 1998 and went to work in Phoenix, AZ (low cost of living) for $47k per year. That was somewhat remarkable, but at the time $40k would have been a fairly average new CS grad salary in a fairly typical cost of living region. Within two years I was around $59k at the same company.
In 2002, I moved to San Francisco and got a job within two months (during the Dot-Com Bust) for $100k without benefits. Six months later I was making $96k with full benefits.
If I went to the Bay Area again right now, I'd probably be lucky to pull $130k. Salaries are awfully stagnant, in my opinion.
Quite literally. When I graduated college, I'd already been working part time for the Corps of Engineers. I was doing multithreaded Windows stuff.
When I interview people now, I'm *appalled* at how little a recent grad knows. Honestly, I'm not surprised at all by the annoying "5 years experience in X" ads. In my opinion, this is a problem with CS degrees. They're essentially useless. I'd like to see computing tech schools become a thing. If you want to write CRUD apps and make real-world value, go to a computing tech school. If you want to work in research or academia, get a CS degree.
It's getting a bit more like my vision, what with the "bootcamp" type places that are springing up around web development. I'd just like to see the industry man the fuck up and admit that they don't care if people know P vs NP, and that they actually just want someone who can turn requirements into functioning software.
If I'm looking to work as an entry level help desk technician, will indicating that I'm A+ certified really make a difference in the long run, if I already have 3 years experience doing freelance PC Tech consulting/troubleshooting and a degree in IS? I'm halfway to getting the cert, and I'm wondering if I'm just wasting my time sending in resumes without listing it.
>>47620498 I sat with my boss one day when he was looking for applicants after I had told him I would be gone in a year. Whenever he saw multiple pages stapled together, he would tear out all but the first and throw them away. Not that guy, but it really does matter
When a job posting has an option for "paste your resume", does that mean it's a fucking bullshit posting where a human doesn't even read it but it just gets sent through a computer looking for buzzwords?
>no college >only an A+ >learning to program >I now know 3 languages >quickly building a portfolio >2 games(one simple, one hugely complex) >add to that one 1 static site and 1 "chat program" >have 1 large company contract on my resume >navy exp. how fucked am i?
>>47617765 A good-looking resume matters. LaTeX can help with that because it outputs nicer results than a standard word processor, but it doesn't carry any meaning on its own. Just like buying a mechanical keyboard doesn't magically make you type faster, it simply allows you to.
>>47620364 My first thought was "I'm not reading this shitty font." In the past, I would have thought this in jest or said it just to make fun of you after giving it an honest read, but it truthfully is enough of a turn off to me now that I don't want to read it. I can only imagine what employers who have to look through hundreds of these things would think.
The problem is that you're lazy and you're waiting for a job to fall into your lap. I'm going to take an entitled stance and tell you to get off your ass and get a job.
Source: someone making 75k in the tech field with no degree, no debt, and was formerly extremely lazy (now only very lazy).
You have to play the game. You have to start at the bottom. Go get a shitty A+/MCE/Apple Certified Associate ($30 online test, people see it and go OH MY GOD APPLE MASTER!!!!), and start applying to level 1 jobs at colleges/grade/high schools. Or call these places/email them and ask if they'd be willing to let you shadow them for zero pay.
>>47616184 graphic design sort of falls under the same category. it's something to do with craftsmanship. writing good software requires attitude, problem solving skills and all the yada yada we all know too well. it's a craft. Passionate people are more likely to succeed in that kind of things
I don't understand. Why do you all lead with walls of text about your education and experience? It's takes a ton of effort to figure out your skills, and while the education might be a prerequisite nobody can really care that much about it?
>>47619699 I'm european and I have a honest question: when you guys talk about salary, is it before tax or fucking net income? CS fresh grads at their first experience in my country make, guess how much, around 20-25k before tax / 13-15k after tax. I'm talking € of course
>>47627635 as long as you're an employee here, your employer is required by law to take care of tax reports on your behalf. They'll retain the taxes on your employee income from your monthly paycheck. You are responsible for reporting any extra income though.
>>47628703 Question is whether they actually know these languages or just put in everything they ever came across. I'd put 5 entries in "languages I could work with comfortably", but I were to put in every "I wrote a few lines of this back in the day" language, that would come up to 12 easily. >or maybe even 20, I used to go on CodinGame and solve easy puzzles in every supported language just for my own amusement
>>47628798 >this is just what my Technical Writing professor suggested we add. The fuck. Hobbies are fine for most places though, they help people see if you're le epin culture fit face before they call you in for an interview.
>>47627933 how hard was the jplt n3? i just started learning jp in like january and i think i could maybe barely pass the n5. i want to be able to pass the n1 eventually and put it on my resume since i think it would be pretty neat. but mostly for myself though
>>47628903 3rd Level is the solid line compared to the thinner lines of levels around it. That level is in some cases harder than 2nd. In a way it separates the boys from the man. I'm somewhere in 4-5 so it's not resume worthy
>>47629209 fluentU looks neat ill try it out. im like 1/4 of the way through core 2k/6k optimized and ill probably be done by christmas maybe. i can already do most of the test n5 questions so thats nice for my motivation. keep going bro we can do it
does gpa matter that much? because i was a poor student during my gen eds and i have like a 2.25 and im 2 semesters into the cs program at my school and i can maybe get a 3.0, i dont know how many a's and stuff that would take
>>47615688 The bigger issue is that there's not all that much tech in the Midwest other than hosting companies, Motorola, and ag tech firms. Even sysadmin jobs are rare outside of hosting in Chicagoland. Head for the west coast or the northeast.
>>47621633 Besides all the meme brogramming cancer here, the fonts are really disgusting. And the worst thing is colleges are churning out students who have php and mysql as the most legit languages on their resumes.
I have a question. I'm getting around to writing a resume, since I'd like to find some internship or whatever for the summer break. I have two unfinished projects now (they're both shitty gaymen, but I have fun fiddling with them and adding more stuff to them). The thing is, I don't have anything else besides the projects I do at uni. Both of those projects have 3000+ lines of code, so while they're not impressive, I do have something to show. Should I include them on my resume? And should I include projects I had to do for my classes, such as some minesweeper clone done with windows forms?
>>47622491 Having real shit to show is much more beneficial than having a school degree that shows you can take up space in a class room 2 or 3 days a week. Keep working on improving your shit and tossing out your resume.
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