What is worth most today?
A CS degree or a degree from a dev bootcamp like these:
CS degree is useless.
If you're interested in tech go for a degree in robotics/mechatronics/electrical/electronic engineering.
A pure software degree is useless in this time and age.
I hate those unrealistic expectations
>20-25 year old
>14 years of Java enterprise experience
>did nothing but study his whole life but still a social butterfly and natural leader
>has to love unpaid overtime
>be happy with minimum wage
>250 students enrolled in SE/CS
>20 students enrolled in Embedded Systems Design
>at campus 2 years ago
>code monkey population growing factorially
Guess who will have the overall better job satisfaction in the near future.
As a consultant for a security firm, I can say these are very unrealistic. Also, we love to pick apart these type of people who think they know everything. They are stubborn and unwilling to learn because they know everything there is tho know already. One of our clients, a huge computer firm, wants people with 2-3 years experience, nothing more or less. They know enough to work, but can still learn knew things.
>How much does tuition cost?
>Tuition is about the same as a single >semester at private university: $17,780 >for 12 weeks, 6 days per week, 11 hours >of in-classroom instruction per day.
b-but anon you can learn everything about CS online!
>Into the trash
All that matters is what you know, not how you got the knowledge.
I'm near the end of my CS degree, and some of my peers couldn't program their way out of a paper bag. That said, someone who picks up programming at a bootcamp probably won't have the same appreciation of data structures, etc. as a CS grad. The only way is to actually test them - one good way is to ask them how fast linked list iteration is compared to an array, and why. (If you think they're even remotely similar, try benchmarking it.)
That said, if you really want to do it purely based on qualifications, ECSE + CS is the way to go. Pure CS is useless, Software Eng is ok, but the brightest ones usually double ECSE with CS. (Most sw eng's wouldn't be able to handle the math needed for it, and understanding the hardware in depth is always useful.)
Unless you want to roll a dice on your career, you need a degree from a university. Posts telling you that knowledge matters over having a degree are ignorant.
That piece of paper will be the most important thing in your life. Sad that it's this way, but that's the way it is.
bootcamp. millions of grads can't be wrong.
Sometimes, but not always. I know at mine the CS course was pretty lacking compared to the ECSE course in terms of computer architecture. e.g. creating your own MIPS CPU was a 4th year elective in ECSE.
That said, our undergrad CS course didn't have a component on kernel programming either, so it was a bit shit. (The ECSE course had an elective on RTOS, which had some similar material though.)
I'm a Gentoo user, but I would say you always want someone who knows a variety of programming languages - ideally one high level / mixed paradigm (e.g. Python, D), one low level / imperative (C, C++), and one functional (Haskell, bonus points for Lisp). Regardless of what language the job requires, knowing both functional and imperative styles has a huge influence on your code.
> >3 years experience means you can't learn anything
What you really want is a naive whelp you can bat around who doesn't know what's bullshit or not yet. You can just out and say it, were all anonymous here.
It doesn't matter since none of you can write decent code anyway. /g/ is for phones and battlestations and to sometimes pretend like you actually know something useful so you don't kill yourself
If you've a portfolio of projects or experience, that will get you better jobs than a degree will
However some places will still bin CVs that have no degrees with them.
Best thing for an inexperienced coder to do is to contract out for a year or so. Doing Drupal sites and modules, helping extend existing websites etc. Heck, even writing HTML emails gets valuable experience.
Money is good too.
>Best thing for an inexperienced coder to do is to contract out for a year or so. Doing Drupal sites and modules, helping extend existing websites etc. Heck, even writing HTML emails gets valuable experience.
Where do you find this sort of thing? I can't even find pro-bono work.
depends on the job.
if it's codemonkey without responsibilities : bootcamp i guess
the real difference between someone with a CS degree and self-taught codes or shitty SE degrees, etc is when it comes to stuff that needs brain
like the boss gives you a task to implement some algorithm doing whatever. the problem is NP hard
the cs guy will probably sit there 1-2 days,comes back to the boss and tells him "sorry, not possible to get any satisfactable result"
the codemoney will start writing the shit for 2 months, optimize it for an other month and then wonder why it's calculates 1 %o in a week.
I would go out and search the streets until I find a homeless man in his mid 30's. I would then offer him a job. Only resort to twenties if they have a certain vibe about them. Decision making would be weighted against women, but not exclude them outright.
In the trash the applications would go after I found my new employee.
I'm in the UK so the jobs market might be slightly different but I can't see the US not having agencies who handle contractors.
Generally you get contracts at all skill levels and the pay rates vary but are generally pretty good.
>Generally you get contracts at all skill levels and the pay rates vary but are generally pretty good.
I've checked every agency in my state. There are a total of 2 (two) IT related positions. They are both too far away to commute to.
High school doesn't matter at all. Unless it was an AP course, your high school course don't count for anything. So yes.
Get your CV with some digital focused agencies, they'll do the leg work for you.
Be honest about your skill levels, don't forget that working from home is often fine with companies, especially for contactors (means they won't have to prep a pc for you)
It's literally the most useless degree. 10-20 years from everybody will be able to program thanks to codecademy.com and udacity.com etc.
Even graduate level CS courses are freely available on coursera.org
yes, that's the issue these days. It's too abstract and simple meaning that you don't get a secure good paying job. CS was a valuable degree when machines needed experts to writ ecode specific to hardware. Now that any code monkey in a sweatshop can churn out cheap functional code, there is very little room left for an graduate unless they find themselves an unsaturated niche area of CS.
>10-20 years from everybody will be able to program
Have you ever talked to a stranger about doing anything tech that involves learning on their own? Most people don't give a shit and won't even try to learn something on their own
If you want to learn how to do efficient computation (like for scientific computation) then CS is gonna be very useful (as long as you don't only focus on it). But the actual CS field has not much to do with programming software and isn't that practical.
>an unsaturated niche area of CS.
There are none.
Most of the low-level embedded stuff can be done by MSEEs and literally ever 14-year-old girl can learn Java, PHP and ASP.NET and other high-level stuff.
CS is useless.
they still exist. There is certain enterprise stuff that requires non standard applications of CS knowledge. They are hard to find and usually only choose the best students from the best programs.
So, yes. You are right. CS is useless
Are you guys just mad because you didn't make it to college/uni? CS degrees at my uni have a 100% employment rate, even for if you get a third. It sets people up for work in the industry, and while a lot of people are hired by tech companies to program who haven't done CS, it's still a solid foundation for most tech jobs and a worthwhile use of your time.
>tfw beating out CS majors for a software dev internship as a business major
hate to be the one to say it but you probably won't get a job in a non-web area, especially straight out of high school
that said, get your head out of your ass. you wouldn't badmouth webdev if you had any idea what kinds of tech it can entail (hint: basically everything)
This is literally what I mean. A decade from now the CS majors are going work at Starbucks and the liberal arts majors will have nice paying IT jobs thanks to moocs and bootcamps.
>very solid social skills
This is like only drafting football players who have very solid understanding of quantum mechanics.
You are wrong. It depends on your skills. I got hired a month before graduating high school to work for a startup in the retail industry (making smart POS devices). I'm now (at 18) the main dev of their API and the main maintainer of their payment processing services. I also won two hackathons that opened me to a lot of opportunities to get hired in big corporations (Comcast / NBC Universal was one) but I had to decline their offer because then I would have to drop out of college.
Even people with CS degrees in India and Russia have interesting jobs.
The PHP and Node.js codemonkeys from Russia/India you find on odesk are people with business and english literature degrees.
devops (a profession in itself), testing, ddd/bdd, learning the whole stack + tools (knowing the language well is maybe 5% of the way), keeping up with innovations and best practices (I've noticed this is vastly underestimated), db & profiling (sql, nosql, key-value stores)
not even mad, but it seems to me you're just regurgitating memes with no real idea of what web dev actually is
the point was that all the things on that list are the absolute minimum requirements for 90% of the jobs I've applied to in my area. entry level, per se. (disregarding low-end types of jobs completely). it appears the US job market is skewed heavily towards entry-level people who know html, css and console.log('hello world')
How employable will I be? I received a degree in pure math (BS), returning to school to take courses in programming, data structures, analysis of algorithms, & computer organization. Not doing it for a degree, but doing it for credit as a post-grad.
Can I get input on this?
I was accepted as a non-degree but credit taking post-grad student at an elite university. I am using this program to transition from pure mathematics (which I got a BS in) to computer science. Was wondering if I'd be employable.
I may use this as a way to get into an elite PhD program instead.
I received a BS degree in mathematics. Want to do a MS or PhD in CS. I cannot be admitted to CS graduate programs because I lack CS coursework. I applied as a non-degree but credit taking postbc to complete the required CS coursework to get into a MS or PhD program in CS. The program is at a top 10 university and I was accepted (admissions is selective because there is not a separate program for it and you are funneled into mainstream courses). I was wondering if I took courses and decided to not go PhD route if I'd be employable.
Okay, thanks. I'm probably going to skip industry route and just take enough courses to get into their MS or PhD program and complete the rest in that program. Bare minimum, planning to take programming, data structures, analysis of algorithms, theory of computation and computer organizations. Is there anything I am missing core wise there? I figure I can pick up operating systems or additional courses in an MS or PhD program at this particular school. I want to take bare min. to get into a graduate program.
I'm sorry I don't have enough information about your profile, your school or the industry. That being said why would you want to take a PhD if you plan to become a mere programmer?
Great question. My main objective is to get a PhD in CS to do research. I don't think I actually want to be a software engineer, I was asking to see if it were a viable alternative option. I think the more logical choice for a software engineering route would have been to attend a local state university and take all of their software engineering related courses and get some programming projects under my belt.
The two schools I was accepted to (for postbac) are nationally ranked universities. But I'm not using either of them for job enhancement, but academic enhancement. Both schools do well in terms of placing their graduates in top industry jobs.
What's most viable?
Nanoelectronics, Signal Processing or Robotics and Intelligent Systems?
>10-20 years from everybody will be able to program
I do not think so, this programs like codeacademy strarted due to the imminent lack of programmers.
No one wants to be a programmer, even in CS classes today if you ask it, 95% of the students will say they "dont like programming hurr durr, i will werk in db or managing shit herp derp"
A fucking paper isn't worth anything. Neither is a github account, a recommendation or anything else.
The only thing that works to determine ones skill is trial work.
This. Put on your best face and don't sell yourself short - I'm getting a second interview for a position with IBM and I only applied just for the hell of it, didn't actually think I'd get an interview.
just because all you see are incapables around you doesn't meant that there aren't ten Indians working in a sweatshop for every average programmer, ready to churn out code on contracts to firms that are outsourcing
CS is a very general degree used to pass CV screens. Embedded Systems is a very specific course that has very little use outside of its limited job roles.
Also, enrollment counts mean jack shit. CS entry reqs are low tier because the field itself is geared towards people with a certain way of thinking, not for people that are good in other subjects. Majority of students don't pass, the right ones get a First while sleeping though the entire course.
Sure at the end you have a degree that doesn't say much, but when recruiters see a First on a CS degree, they'll check one box on their list and highlight it. CV screening is where most candidates are ruled out, the rest of the process is just knowing what you're talking about.
But I'm white with blue eyes. About as far from Raji as you can get.
I did a previous internship at US Bank that was full of foreigners. We'd joke that we spend more time learning foreign human languages over programming languages.