>>11487 Go read Evan's Third Reich Trilogy. The killings of Jews is far more complicated than you would believe. Sometimes it took a mere word to a Lithuanian, Baltic, or Ukrainian militia commander to start an ethnic cleansing, much of which was done by high officers in the SS Deathshead brigades. Also, Einsatzgruppen were being used against communists as well as Jews, and were pretty much scorching earth. Its a great trilogy, and this is the one with the holocaust:
The Third Reich at War Evans, Richard http://bookzz.org/book/1124704/089034
4.9 to 5.1 million based upon Raul Hilberg's "the destruction of European Jewry."
Oh and before someone brings up the fact he's Jewish, his book upset a lot of Israelis and American Jews because it's so outright when it talks about how most of the Jews walked to their deaths and barely resisted, some even selling each other out.
>>12900 Which even the State of Israel and most Jews accept. The original figures at Auschwitz are also well known to have been inflated by the Soviet Union, who were trying to make use of it as anti-Western Propaganda.
>>13115 Less cowardly, more they decided to work with the same tactics that had worked in the past.
The Jewish communes who did not realise the Germans wanted rid of them (some in Russia welcomed the Germans, as many preferred them to the Soviets) believed that resistance would result in greater reprisals. Few realised the scale of what was going on and that it was no simple pogrom. Have a look at Babi Yar. Einsatzgruppen C barely expected a quarter of the 33,000 Jews to show up, most of whom believed the story they had been told of being "evacuated" right up until they were told to "strip and lie face down".
Meanwhile you have your Chaim Rumwoski's, who outright sold their people to the Germans and hoped to escape the same fate.
The most realistic answer is probably something in the hundreds of thousands, not millions.
The actual numbers are really besides the point though, which is to deligitimize the holocaust as a moral get out of jail free card, a bully beat stick used by the Jews for smacking western europeans, or anyone else who gets in their way, an ethical blank check for justifying whatever sick shit passes through the twisted mind of an Ashkenazim.
I foresaw that response because you inbreds are more predictable than the time of day and accustomed to circle jerking with complete retards. You think shit like this passes as logical. Put your thinking cap on real tight.
The "industry" surrounding it isn't actually relevant to the veracity of the event. It might make you further doubt that it happened, but that's completely subjective. It has no bearing on the quantity or quality of the evidence whatsoever. Stop trying to sidestep a comparison that objectively does work and tell me which genocide has actually occurred in exact accordance with the standards of evidence holocaust deniers place on the holocaust.
Hello, teenager. Why the holocaust? Are you aware that a million people were systematically murdered in Africa over a period of 6 months relatively recently? Africa. By a tribe of militants. There's nothing ridiculous or unbelievable about the historically accepted numbers of the holocaust.
6 million is a rounded number. If you actually believe that anyone thinks exactly 6 million people died then you are projecting your apparently single digit IQ onto everyone. No one has ever thought that.
Do you really pretend to know how crematoriums work just because you read a /pol/ infograph stating how long it takes modern ones to work? When you're consecutively burning prisoners, everything stays hot.
>Fred A. Leuchter, Jr., has been widely acknowledged as America's leading specialist on the design and fabrication of homicidal gas chambers and other equipment used in execution of convicted criminals. His expertise has been acknowledged by state governments and in periodicals such as The Atlantic (Feb. 1990), The New York Times (Oct. 13, 1990) and The New York Times Book Review (Nov. 22, 1992), as well as on the "Phil Donahue Show," where he appeared as a guest. After receiving his Bachelor's degree from Boston University in 1964, he did postgraduate work at the Harvard Smithsonian Astrophysical Observatory. Leuchter holds patents for numerous highly sophisticated technical devices, including sextants, surveying instruments and optical encoding equipment.
>Leuchter spoke at length about his investigation at Auschwitz and other camp sites in sworn courtroom testimony, April 20-21, 1988, in the Toronto "Holocaust" trial of German-Canadian publisher Ernst Zündel. Leuchter's detailed Report on his investigation and findings has been published in numerous editions in all major languages.
>Leuchter is perhaps best known as the author of four controversial forensic reports on alleged German wartime extermination gas chambers. The Leuchter Report came about when he was commissioned by Canadian Revisionist Ernst Zündel during his 1988 trial in Canada for doubting the holocaust. Fred Leuchter was Zündel's twenty-first witness. He testified on Wednesday, April 20 and Thursday, April 21, 1988. Leuchter was tendered as an expert in gas chamber execution technology. Lead defence attorney Doug Christie informed the court that Leuchter had been commissioned by Ernst Zündel to conduct an investigation of the alleged execution gas chambers at Auschwitz, Birkenau and Majdanek in Poland with a view to determining the capability of these installations to perform the functions attributed to them in Holocaust literature.
>>18608 >Do you really pretend to know how crematoriums work just because you read a /pol/ infograph stating how long it takes modern ones to work? When you're consecutively burning prisoners, everything stays hot. >everything stays hot >Crematorium open the oven door >get blasted with 500 C >crematorium guy dies
quit being dumb, how on earth would you throw 6 bodies in a still oven that is at cremating temperatures. THEY DIDNT HAVE A HEAT RESISTANCE PULLEY SYSTEM
>>18695 it is very important my reddit friend, especially when the bulk of the holocaust narrative is dependent on eye witness accounts now that its widely acknowledged how little physical evidence there actually is, coupled with people now examining the sheer absurdity of the 'homicidal gas chambers ' claim.
>>18660 >Leuchter had travelled to Poland and from 25 February to 3 March 1988 had inspected the alleged gas chambers, taken photographs, drawn plans, and removed samples which had been subsequently chemically analysed. He had prepared a report containing his opinion on whether the alleged gas chambers in the three camps were capable of being used for multiple executions by hydrogen cyanide gas and whether the crematories at the same camps were capable of disposing of the numbers allegedly burned there during the war.
>The Leuchter Reports have been distributed all over the world as well as translated into many other languages including german. All of his reports are online and also available via mail order.
>>18660 >/pol/ grasping at long debunked reports of questionable invdividuals On why the Leuchter report is full of shit: http://www.nizkor.org/faqs/leuchter/
Leuchter itself is a hack by the way, a liar. He is not an engineer, his claims of expertise are made up, the prisons he claims to work for have denied any correspondence with him: http://www.nizkor.org/faqs/leuchter/leuchter-faq-22.html
Zündel himself is a very questionable individuals too, by the way. Much infromation available here: http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/z/zundel-ernst/ Highlight include again, made up expertise. Especially nice is that in his reports the source for many of his claims is himself - published under an alias. Truly a man you can trust.
I don't know and frankly I don't care. It doesn't make any of the core objectives of national socialism or fascism any less legitimate which is how it's often used.
In my opinion, orthodox Holocaust believers have made criticism of something illegal and the last time I saw a book about the Holocaust, the preface was literally five pages of "oy vey, these antisemites are fucking literally hitler and so childish, it's so obvious that it happened what are you a racist???" if you'll forgive my paraphrasing. Whether it happened or not doesn't matter to me, because what on Earth compels that kind of sensitivity to an historical topic? Whatever it is, it's counterproductive to historical discussion, tyrannical, and anti-academic (because there is no good reason to imprison people for questioning history).
Orthodox Stormfags who refuse to even consider the possibility of ethnic cleansing are also not to be trusted. They want Hitler and the NatSocs to be heroes of Germany and Europe, and as such are at risk of glossing over anything that would paint them in a bad light.
Historically, I want nothing more than holocaust revisionists, deniers, and believers to have a genuine academic discussion about it so we can get to the bottom of it without reasonable doubt. That will never happen, because both sides are so full of shitposters that everywhere; here, IRL, reddit, fucking everywhere, will immediately be flooded by both the JIDF and the NSDAPIF.
But ultimately, morally, it won't change anything for me, as a Fascist/National Socialist, nor do I expect Stalin's gulags to influence the beliefs of a Communist or Robber Barons to put Libertarians off.
>>18717 http://www.nizkor.org/features/qar/qar42.html >42. "Holocaust" authors claim that the Nazis were able to cremate bodies in about 10 minutes. How long does it take to incinerate one body according to professional crematory operators? >More recently, the Holocaust-deniers have begun to rely on the testimony of Ivan Lagace, who apparently said at the Zündel trial and later in print that it takes six or eight hours per body. >When they say "professional crematory operators," they mean people like Lagace, whose job is to cremate one corpse at a time, with a coffin, in an oven designed to incinerate even the largest bones into a fine ash for the next of kin to take home. This situation is obviously not comparable to the situation at Auschwitz-Birkenau during the Second World War. >For example, Lagace would never even consider mixing or "comingling" the ashes of one deceased person with those of another. Lagace and the IHR forget that two or three emaciated corpses could be inserted into each "muffle." This would, of course, never be done in a civilian, commercial establishment. >Also, the Auschwitz furnaces were designed to run continuously, using the heat energy produced by the burning of previous bodies to keep the oven hot for the next bodies. After they were fired with coke to their proper operating temperature at the beginning of the day, they required little or no extra fuel to operate. This was a technical achievement that is well-documented (see Gutman et al., Anatomy of the Auschwitz Death Camp, 1994, pp. 185-187ff). Lagace claims that there must be a "cooling off" period between each body incinerated, which shows a profound ignorance on his part as to how the ovens worked. Lagace claims that continuous operation would have caused the Auschwitz ovens to break down, but again, he simply does not understand the difference between everyday civilian crematoria and military-industrial crematoria.
There's little debate among mainstream historians about the estimated 6 million Jewish deaths. Several independent censuses and estimates of the Jewish population converge on this number, so there's strong evidence for it. Pretty much all the claims about the numbers being exaggerated are based around conspiracy theories, cherrypicked data, and other typical denialist tactics.
Frankly you'd have to be literally retarded to believe anything /pol/ says.
>da jooz weren't subjected to genocide, but they still caused WW2 in the first place >the real genocide is ACTUALLY being committed now by da jooz against muh whites and muh palestinians who both have exponentially increasing populations
They're not even smart enough to disguise their fucking narrative.
>>19256 because its fucking retarded my dude, the assertion that multiple bodies = more heat is so hilarious only a jew would think it plausible, the human body is 70% water, contrary to silly jewish maths more bodies actually make it harder for the oven, not easier. jews werent a superconductive jetfuel that could make the ovens defy the laws of physics.
its hilarious that you're getting all your sources from a site that literally stipulates its function is to 'remember the shoah'
now we know that 6 trillion jewish souls were shoahd at the hands of the most evil human beings to ever walk the planet, so evil in fact they seem cartoonish when examined critically, but what about those that survived,perhaps those that survived the nazis cunning torture techniques.
dont forget 6 million jews were killed, which if we're generous and assume that killing began in 1940 and ceased in 1945(this isnt the official narrative but we're being generous) that would be 3300 jews killed a day! thats 137 an hour! boy those nazi devils were efficient!
>>19605 Fuuuark, how many poor jewish people were crushed using this devastatingly efficient method of genocide?
>>19618 >>19618 >Burning of the bodies does not produce enough water to extinguish the flames, that's silly.
The crematoriums in Auschwitz could barely fit 2 people abreast, if you were able to reach in and rearrange them by hand you MIGHT be able to put three in, but the water released would have been enough to significantly diminish the ovens heat output.
If you want to defend the holocaust narrative that's fine, but know that the position that the Nazis gassed and cremated millions of jews at Auschwitz has for a long time now been demonstrated to be untenable, you're defending something that even the most ardent pro holocaust historians have long since abandoned.
The crematorium argument is idiotic. They are comparing normal cremation where body is burned and ash is given to next of kin. Most of time in that is spent on warming up the oven and cooling it down to recover ashes. When you remove part where they remove ashes you can simply put another corpse in as soon there is room. That way you can burn a lot of corpses before you have to cool down oven and warm it up again. Corpse itself burns in matter 20 to 30 minutes if oven is warm enough.
>>19977 I am aware, there have been reductions all across the aboard, glaring holes in the narrative have long since been found, initially the allies claimed to have found death camps, soon that was revised to only the soviet's, now the numbers for all of the camps have been reduced.
Concessions have been made even by MAINSTREAM(read; jewish) historians, Dachau has had its death toll reduced by millions, as has Auschwitz.
>The installation at Auschwitz was significantly larger and capable of burning several bodies at a time per muffle
>>20230 So you acknowledge that mainstream historians have lost court cases with people like Ernst Zundel and have had to concede to all of his points?
If your initial numbers were, and still are, used to propagate a lie that is a problem. The 6 million figure has been historically acknowledge to be incorrect by mainstream(good goy) historians, the mainstream figure is now as low as 2 million. Actual revisionists interested in the truth arrive at somewhere between 200-700k jews dying due to typhus and other wartime ailments.
The problem with all this? even though mainstream Jewish historians acknowledge the 6 million figure to be untrue, that figure is still perpetuated by the mass media and taught in schools.
This change in the plaque at Auschwitz, for example, is never discussed in the media or taught in schools, despite it being of significant relevance and importance.
Men and women were sentenced to death based on the original belief in the authenticity of the figures on this plaque, figures that have long since been debunked.
>>20485 Yes, people actually believe the Nazis used GAS CHAMBERS to kill 6 million Jews. The NAZIS allowed the Jews to have soccer teams, a post office, a choir, have births in the camp hospitals, punished those who they found to be committing acts of barbarism against the prisoners, all with the actual intention of GASSING them. They turned them into soap and lampshades, they had mobile gassing vans etc.
Gassing, mind you, being the most hilariously inefficient, expensive and dangerous method of mass homicide, the Nazis could have shot or starved the Jews to death and it would have been much more effective and cost efficient.
Instead they constructed elaborate 'death camps' to gas and torture poor Jewish people to death, its as obscene as it is farcical, it would be amusing if not for the fact that people actually believe this garbage.
>>20666 >Gassing, mind you, being the most hilariously inefficient, expensive and dangerous method of mass homicide, the Nazis could have shot or starved the Jews to death and it would have been much more effective and cost efficient.
The very reason why nazis ended up with extermination camps and gas chambers is simple. It's cheap and it's easier for executioners psyche. Starvation works, but it's slow and ties up lots of guards to contain ghettos or camps. It's not cheaper because said guards.
Extermination camps required less guards than labor camps. Yes, re-purposed pesticides are cheap. Cheapest way to genocide is without doubt shooting or stabbing everyone immediately after being identified for extermination, but turned out that it was inefficient due to psychological trauma it caused to executioners.
>>21514 I dont think people in the food industry kill themselves after a certain amount of pigs, cows, chicken they've killed. same difference. once something has a purpose, it becomes a job and not a decision.
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