Can we discuss the genocide of Germans that occurred after WW2? Including POWs starved and killed by the allies and the soviets, the ethnic Germans who were purged in the east? As well as those wrongfully executed based on the findings of the kangaroo court known as the Nuremberg trials.
Why aren't we ever taught about this in school?
>Expecting something else from bongs and their bonglets
It was not part of their blood,
It came to them very late,
With long arrears to make good,
When the Saxon began to hate.
They were not easily moved,
They were icy -- willing to wait
Till every count should be proved,
Ere the Saxon began to hate.
Their voices were even and low.
Their eyes were level and straight.
There was neither sign nor show
When the Saxon began to hate.
It was not preached to the crowd.
It was not taught by the state.
No man spoke it aloud
When the Saxon began to hate.
It was not suddently bred.
It will not swiftly abate.
Through the chilled years ahead,
When Time shall count from the date
That the Saxon began to hate.
It takes a while, but once they get into a killing mood boy do they ever make good on it.
Not sure that this is true, but if it is, then they deserved it.
Not because of the whole "holocaust" thing, or for some twisted sense of allied justice. I support German interests in Ww1 and find that WW2 was a simple death thrash of remnants of the ultra authoritarian German culture.
But they deserved it because they surrendered.
Facts are, life as a pow is a bitch. You can't really expect to be treated well when you esetially threw down your rights of resistance. They should be grateful that the Americans weren't literally butt fucking them or gutting them for fun.
Only the generally weak remain towards the end of war. Weak of will, with only a few being truly weak of strength. The best, loyal, fight to the death men were by and large dead, having, well, died for their cause. Only a few lucky or hardcore fighters remained. Most were trash.
Even then, you can be a knight's cross holder, or a general, or a storied vet of the Great War, but at the end of the day, if you surrender rather than die in a hail of lead, you've resigned to whatever treatment your conquers deem fit.
It's the simple way of war and life.
Ergo, I feel little remorse for the suffering Germans, despite favoring their efforts and admiring their previous efforts.
I'm open to thoughts and opinions of others. All I can say is how I feel and what I'd possibly be inclined to do in a similar situation.
I'm far more partial to Imperial Germany however. Take that as a grain of salt; reading 'Storm of Steel' really showed the combat loyalty of the few remaining storm troopers at the Kaiserreich's end and has spoiled me for other soldier's woes.
>you deserve to be killed because you didn't continue to fight an already lost battle until you were killed
>mfw this cunt thinks just by showing up on the losing side you deserve to die no matter what
This treatment was exactly what happened to Soviet POWs taken during the opening of Barbarossa and had more to do with incompetence in managing such large numbers of prisoners rather than malicious intent.
If the mass starvation of Russians in 1941 cannot be considered a crime, neither can that of the Germans in 1945. But you would defend the first.
If everyone in Germany had that attitude going into war, then WW2 would have lasted far less time as small waves of losses send the Germans on a running tizzy surrendering to anyone who would have them like they did in 1945.
Wars are won not on the backs of men willing to live, but those who are willing to die.
>they deserved it
I guess you don't say that when you talk about Jews in Germany that had it coming by multiples factors (= spartakism + massive usury).
Germany nowadays doesn't even culturally or ethnically (just thank rape) exist because of that war.
There's a difference between fighting a battle where the outcome is unclear, and fighting a battle where the outcome is inevintable.
In 1945, the outcome was very, very clear to anyone who wasn't a total lunatic. There was precisely zero benefit to anyone if you kept fighting. Literally the only thing you achieved was getting killed.
I know its shameful
Worst part is we made up a bunch of nonsense about alleged german atrocities that either didn't happen or were greatly exaggerated during the war to distract from our own crimes
>Germany nowadays doesn't even culturally
Yes, a nations culture can never change. Not in the least. It has to remain perfectly stagnant. This worked out very well for China and Japan.
>or ethnically (just thank rape)
Didn't actually have that much of an impact.
For what? So they were dead? Yes, that's going to do their nation much good.
This response is a bit for both of you. Thanks for taking up the mantle of conversation.
Exactly right about Germany not being "Germany". Germany is a dead state. Only the hollow whispers of its people remain. Same name. Roughly same territory. Completely different people and culture.
This is why fighting to the last is so crucial. At least, in my opinion of culture.
1) You never know, even when fighting to the last, during a losing battle of a losing war, when a military miracle might happen. It has throughout history. Not often, but enough. You never really know. Therefore, die knowing you gave your all for the Reich and Rhine you love.
2) Your way of life is basically dead after the war. Your family murdered and/or raped, your cultural monuments appropriated or desecrated by the victor, your people shamed, etc.
3) Fighting to the last prevents the shame of defeat from haunting your life and he coward guilt/survivors guilt that occasionally accompanies surrendering. You don't hear about it much because those who surrender willingly don't usually have hangups over shaming their fallen brothers and those who would rather die than surrender...well, died.
That's some of my opinions on the matter.
It was probably thought up by the French. Their butthurt against the Germans since 1871 was fucking monumental.
IIRC Woodrow Wilson and Asquith were going to treat the Germans really leniently after the first world war until the French came in and had a huge cry about how the Germans had to suffer.
>calling out the Nuremberg trials
Ya done asked for the shitposting there, you know.
Anyway 2 million German women got raped and everybody seems blase about that fact. There are children born of that still around today. Germany got really fucked and the national split only worsened things.
I don't think the Germans living in the Eastern parts of the empire had anything to do with the holocaust.
As a historian both of these events lead to a massive deportation and removal of large groups of population, no need for moral high ground here.
Go back to /r/4chan retard. I'm reporting your post for off-topic bullshit banter.
General George S. Patton, initially the military governor of Bavaria after World War II (and one of the most based men in American military history) was correct about the Jewish and the Russians in his observations that they were and are both America's true enemy and that the Germans were a force we should have never vilified. After the war, the Jewish took and took and took from the innocent Germans: their houses, properties, everything. Look at what happened throughout the 1940s up until today because America focused on the wrong target. The Cold War could have been prevented, as could have so many other catastrophes . . . perhaps even 9/11, though this is merely conjecture.
If you're interested in immediate post-WW2 Germany, General Patton is an important figure and somebody you should look into.
>1) You never know, even when fighting to the last, during a losing battle of a losing war, when a military miracle might happen.
Miracles happen in situations that enable them. For a miracle to happen, you need a chance of victory. That isn't the case with three overwhelming enemies at the door, your armies dissolving, and your industry dead. At some point you have to realize it's over and get over your delusions.
>2) Your way of life is basically dead after the war.
The way of life changed in some ways, and didn't change in others. What was "desecrated" (or usually rather just destroyed) were the monuments of a "culture" that lasted 12 years. Twelve. Culture is more than just the last 12 years.
> Your family murdered and/or raped
Yeah, that didn't happen to most families.
>3) Fighting to the last prevents the shame of defeat from haunting your life and he coward guilt/survivors guilt that occasionally accompanies surrendering.
You know what it also prevents? Having fit males after the war who can rebuild the country and work in the reemerging economy, so your women won't have to be starving in the rubble that used to be your cities, which were fully bombed out because your dumb ass fought to the last day.
The end of a war isn't the end of a country. It may be the end of a government, an ideology, or an empire, but the country can prevail through it. But a country won't survive if its males are dead. Then it really is dead.
The dumbassery that cost millions of needlessly thrown away lifes at the end of the already lost war was why germany later had to import a shitton of turks to have enough workers. GREAT JOB.
Yeah. France was pretty ass blasted. I honestly don't think they can ever recover after their defeat in the Second World War and how rapidly it happened, combined with how horribly they ended up doing on the Western Front during world war 1 against the Germans, having to rely on American help for the majority of the end of the war. Without American intervention during World War 1, it is obvious that the French had absolutely no chance of fighting off the Germans, and we would have a very different historical outcome from today.
By that reasoning we could justify the mass torture and slaughter of unlimited American civilians for their government's part in the wars in the Middle East, supporting covert terrorist atrocities in central America or using nuclear weapons (not to mention the indiscriminate firebombing) against Japan.
All sides had people who behaved horrifically during WW2 and you can blame Hitler's Nazi Party for starting the war but not the German people who were taken in by propaganda and conscripted. And certainly not the civilians who were murdered by the allies, they were as innocent as any Jew or gypsy in a concentration camp, or any allied civilian killed in German bombing raids and usually more innocent than a US soldier participating in the invasion of Iraq or Afghanistan.
This ignorant, black and white notion of "evil axis" and "righteous allies" (or vice versa) is how that colossal tragedy was able to take place. The real monsters were on both sides, those who dehumanised and killed people based on nationality, ethnicity or political persuasion. Not that I'm saying I'm sure I wouldn't do the same things under those circumstances, but in hindsight we can at least acknowledge that every side had some blood on their hands, AND their share of victims.
Changing and being replaced are two different things, and the disgusting thing is that Germans were literally taught to be replaced by their occupants by not reacting, a thing that never happened before in history.
Just look at some American propaganda against Germany in 1945 and the rest of the post-war era.
What can you do against nuclear bombs ?
>Changing and being replaced are two different things
Yeah. And it wasn't replaced. You could only consider it replaced if the only thing you can think of when hearing "german culture" is the 12 years of the nazi era.
Because it may paint the Germans in a good light and make the allies look bad. Primary school history is mostly politically motivated nation-myth building.
Not that there's anything wrong with that.
This conversation isn't about nuclear arms or modern missile strikes from unseen silent drones. This is about the concept of fighting to the death in a losing battle. Not being ambushed by forces greater then your scope of understanding or control. Times have changed today. Different forms of resistance are needed in today's world. Think vietcong 2.0, I'd akin.
Not legitimate ones. And this is frankly not an acceptable line of inquiry on this board. To even speak in such a way does violence to the memories of those lost in the Shoah. This is why the mods have banned this topic. Please avoid it in the future as I don't want to have to flag your posts.
There is nothing "autistic" about honoring the lives of those who were slaughtered mercilessly by Hun barbarism. It is the least we can do to act in their memory to prevent such a thing from being minimized and repeated. I stand with the moderators in this matter.
Assuming you're not a troll...
>this is frankly not an acceptable line of inquiry on this board
Who are you to say what people can and can't discuss on here?
>the mods have banned this topic
Bullshit. As long as an historical event is being discussed objectively with sourced facts, it belongs on /his/. I can't believe that the work of numerous reputable historians (whether they were jailed for publishing their findings or not) would be censored on 4chan's history board.
Any facts presented by anyone are open to be questioned as long as it's done in a respectful manner. This applies whether discussion of the subject hurts your feelings or not. If someone believes a historical event has been exaggerated or fabricated then it is their right, even their obligation to present their argument.
The attempts to silence historians who find evidence of the manipulation of facts regarding the holocaust are, in themselves, suspicious. They don't honor anyone's lives, they only arouse more questions.
>Collectively they have to bear the guilt for the actions of their countrymen.
What a ridiculous concept. By that reasoning everyone on Earth is as guilty as the Nazis, as every nation has spawned people who committed atrocities at one time or another.
People can't be held responsible for the actions of other people (unless they personally encouraged those actions in some way), and many Germans were opposed to the Nazis. If you can't see the moral shades of grey on this issue then you're no better than the Nazis who exterminated whole villages in Russia simply because they were Russian and therefore "the enemy."
If you deny the Holocaust, or minimize it by equating it to other tragedies, you are not a 'historian', you are an anti-Semite. You are literally endangering human lives with your chutzpah, and I see no reason why we at 4chan should tolerate it. Words have consequences.
I get the subject is the nazis, but can we at least stop the nazi comparisons?
Pretty sure I'm being trolled now, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt again because there are clearly people who actually believe what you're saying.
>minimize it by equating it to other tragedies
How is the holocaust any worse than the holodomor, or the plight of the Native Americans, or any other genocide? I'm not an anti-Semite, I treat Jewish people as I'd treat any other people. That means acknowledging that Jewish people may be biased or misinformed in reporting their own history (as other peoples have been in the past). You may not be able to look at the holocaust objectively but it's the duty of historians to be as objective as possible.
I'm obviously not endangering anyone's lives, that's a ridiuculous statement. You think because I examine more than one side of a historical event and repeat what has been discovered (by more qualified historians than you or I), that event will magically happen again? There's no logic in that.
But by attempting to silence one side of a discussion you are literally endangering free speech, and that is unacceptable. Especially on a forum like 4chan, which actively encourages freedom to speak one's mind.
>we at 4chan
Are you implying I'm not as much a part of 4chan as you? Who do you think you are? If you don't like my "chutzpah," you don't have to tolerate it, you can leave at any time. What you can't do is dictate what topics are discussed on this (or any) public forum.
>How is the holocaust any worse than the holodomor, or the plight of the Native Americans, or any other genocide?
If you don't know why dying from an unfortunate famine due to a lack of resources is not equivalent to being systematically gassed to death in a shower like a parasite, stacked up in huge piles, and shoveled into ovens, I don't know what to tell you except you need to go back to school and be re-educated. And as for the native americans, yes, that was a tragedy too. However they were slowly displaced, America made treaties with some tribes and tried to get along with them. They were not intentionally trying to wipe the whole race out, although unfortunately over the centuries that was not far off from what happened.
>I'm obviously not endangering anyone's lives, that's a ridiuculous statement. You think because I examine more than one side of a historical event and repeat what has been discovered (by more qualified historians than you or I), that event will magically happen again? There's no logic in that.
If you minimize the lives of victims you make it psychologically easier for the victimizers to victimize again, simple as that.
>Are you implying I'm not as much a part of 4chan as you? Who do you think you are?
You are a part of it but you are not a mod, to the best of my knowledge the mods have signaled their intent to make this a progressive/liberal safe space, see the sticky, they don't want to turn this place into another /pol/.
>an unfortunate famine due to a lack of resources
>Since 2006, the Holodomor has been recognized by the independent Ukraine and many other countries as a genocide of the Ukrainian people carried out by the Soviet Union
You wouldn't be "minimizing" the lives of those who were deliberately genocided in the Ukraine would you Anon? Apparently that's a crime that some believe should carry a lengthy prison sentence and according to you, should not be allowed on 4chan.
>the mods have signaled their intent to make this a progressive/liberal safe space
That's not the only alternative to the shit-flinging garbage heap that is /pol/. There's a world of difference between examining a part of history from different angles, and claiming that all Jews/black people are bad and should be exterminated in a race war.
If you think the mods believe I shouldn't be allowed to discuss the work of certain historians on the history board then report me (if you haven't already), and we'll see if I get banned.
We are taught about expulsion of Germans because we kicked 3 millions of Germans from here.
It was no genocide. There were few cases of vigilante justice but it was not organised and did not happen very often.
also drawing swastikas on them must have been fun desu
>It was no genocide. There were few cases of vigilante justice but it was not organised and did not happen very often.
>some 3 million died
>it did not happen very often
you should stop posting any time
nice meme /pol/.
You need to learn what genocide was.
We kicked 3 millions of Germans traitors from here and only 20-30k died. If our goverment wanted to genocide them we would have killed much,much more.
genocide is when you systematically try to exterminate an ethnic group. the expulsion of the germans was did not involve extermination, and germans aren't an ethnic group.
how hard is this to understand?
How the fuck is this true.... You're talking about how the best men died and the ones that were left over were in some sense inadequate...
That's simply not how evolution worked. The people that survive wars in most cases are the most mentally and sometimes physically fit. At worst they are average enough to slip away unnoticed by the winners. Going down in a hail of bullets isn't noble. It's stupid.
My grandfather surrendered when Berlin fell. The guy was 16, he escaped from the Russians twice after and made his way into north america. Tbh I think that's a better story than getting killed for some beurocrats war.
What do you want to discuss?
Genocide (in real sense of the word) of Germans never happened (as in intentional destruction of Germans), but mass expulsions did happen, which could probably qualify as genocide withing modern legal standards.
This is fact and no one is really disputing it, it's just that people aren't very interested in the subject.
I don't mean to say it was a positive event, but I don't like what you people want to accomplish with pushing this story.
You try to equate guilt and you try to make Hitler's ideas valid, namely ''he was just protecting ethnic Germans outside of Germany''.
However, hatred and expulsions only happened because of what Nazis did in WW2. Also, plenty of those ethnic Germans collaborated with Nazis, in various degrees.
For example, in Czechoslovakia they played a major part in fall of that state.
Hitler and Nazis didn't care much about ethnic Germans, they were simply a tool they used in their propaganda.
When Germans in Yugoslavia responded weakly to SS and Wehrmacht recruitment, Himmler remarked ''no one cares what we do with Germans in south'' and instituted conscription.
Before the war, while Germans did suffer SOME repression, it was nothing major as Nazi propaganda wanted to show.
In fact, in Yugoslavia, Czechoslovakia, Hungary, Romania, Soviet Union and elsewhere they lived in peace with their neighbors.
In Poland there were some problems, but no real oppression. Those same Poles suffered decades of Germans trying to destroy their nation and slowly cleanse them.
So yeah, it's inhumane to say ''they deserved it'', but it's easy for anyone unbiased to see why it happened. And since the world doesn't think in a strict legal and humanitarian way, most people don't care what happened to ethnic Germans after WW2.
>Those same Poles suffered decades of Germans trying to destroy their nation
The Germans literally built Poland. Why would they then destroy it?
Poland is a meme country that should have never come back after 1795.
See, this is why we don't want /pol/ here.
You people can't discuss for shit, you just spam memes and propaganda until everyone is too tired to respond, because normal people don't have such crippling autism.
>Poland is a meme country
Poland is older than fucking Germany. Those lands were never German before 18th century.
Poles are distinct ethnic group and Germans (well, Prussians) occupied Polish lands in late 18th century.
Then they settled en masse there and slowly tried to displace or assimilate Poles.
It's worth nothing same happened to Slavs in East Germany, who were once majority but were then slowly assimilated into Germans.
This is the problem with you people, you adopt ''Germans are masterrace'' idea, so if a German kills and rapes a baby, it's masterrace action, but if a Slav does it, it's subhuman.
Fuck. Off. To. /pol/.
The area of modern-day Poland is the German homeland.
The area of modern day Germany is celtic homeland.
your point ?
Germans vacated their ''homeland'' and that void was filled with Slavs. And Germans didn't exist back than, Germanic is not the same as German. Just like Polish is not same as Russian, even though both are Slavic people.
People moved a lot in European history.
You're literally crying about expulsion of Germans, but you support expulsion of Slavs because some Germanic tribe lived in general area 1000 years before.
You can circlejerk with your historically illiterate buddies there.
This isn't /pol/. Just some butthurt German or self-hating polak. There is plenty of good threads on /pol/ about Poland. Until the Wehrboos show up and start crying about Danzig, Dresden or OPs pathetic attempt at a thread. They will demonize everyone in the process, no matter how much you might hate liberalism, calling you a Jew in the progress.
This isn't /pol/, but his methods of discussion are /pol/.
Problem with these people is that even if you explain to them in depth why they are wrong, they'll just leave thread and repeat same shit over and over.
They don't want to discuss, they want to push their view. Because Germans are masterrace and Slavs are not worthy of living and blablabla.
>they'll just leave thread and repeat same shit over and over.
Yes indeed. I just hope it doesn't seep into this board. /k/ and /int/ have relatively healthy discussions. Coming from /pol/ I just hope that same sort of shit-posting doesn't come onto this board.
Maybe we're just experiencing some sort of memeing until the board truly settles in. Or not...
>Cause 2 world wars
When will this meme die? Its so tiring
>Hitler riles up ethnic Germans to separate from Czechoslovakia
>Czechs are betrayed by their allies and forced to surrender Sudety
>Hitler agrees that no more expansion will happen
>in early 1939, he proceeds to occupy remnant of Czechoslovakia, where no German even lives
Why the fuck would anyone trust this man?
>atttack sovereign nation
Ignoring the fact that the clay was rightfully german and that the german minority was being discriminated against and even killed.
Lots and lots of diplomatic solutions were proposed by Germany and all of them either turned down or completely ignored.
How about you learn history?
>On September 30, 1938, Adolf Hitler, Benito Mussolini, French Premier Edouard Daladier, and British Prime Minister Neville Chamberlain signed the Munich Pact, which sealed the fate of Czechoslovakia, virtually handing it over to Germany in the name of peace.
I dont know much about Czechoslovakia other than it was split between Germany and Hungary. I do seem to remember reading newsreadings from the time warning about Poland wanting to annex the southern parts of Czechoslovakia however, so it could have been to stop that from happening? I will have to read further in to the subject.
Feel free to to ask your question and try and search through just in case someone already asked your question :^)
The IMT in Nuremberg was tight as shit considering how it worked with no fucking precedent. The IMTFE was a fucking shambles though, if you'd given that one shit then I'd agree with you.
>it was split between Germany and Hungary
>Poland wanting to annex the southern parts of Czechoslovakia
You seem kinda confused
That's the czech's fault for not granting autonomy to the sudeten germans. Payback's a bitch
>Among the demands, Henlein demanded autonomy for Germans living in Czechoslovakia. The Czechoslovakian government responded by saying that it was willing to provide more minority rights to the German minority but it refused to grant them autonomy.
What the fuck are you talking about?
German troops occupied Bohemia and Moravia, or modern Czech Republic.
Slovakia was separated and parts of Slovakia were occupied by Hungarians.
Are you a troll or something? I refuse to believe someone is this dumb an persistent at posting shit.
So? Either be with the imperial might of germany or be against. I mean, no one talked bad about america when bush said before the Iraq invasion "either you're with us or against us".
Where are the sanctions against America?
>you retarded fuck
You know you lost the argument when you start insulting people.
>Rest of Czech lands didn't have any Germans
Shouldn't have oppressed the german minority in the first place to begin with.
And how was German minority oppressed exactly?
By your logic, expulsion of Germans post-war is fine too, right?
Shouldn't have oppressed or murdered tens of millions of people.
And while it's true I'm insulting you, this insult isn't false, you are retarded.
>Shouldn't have oppressed the german minority in the first place to begin with.
>German is an official language
>German parties are in the parliament
>Not only that, they have the highest or second highest number of seats
>By your logic, expulsion of Germans post-war is fine too, right?
According to the winner of the war (the allies), that was completely fine. No one cares about morals as long as you win the war.
You don't understand the simple principle how empires act. Here's a recent example:
The empire has always the moral high-ground, no matter what it does. And during the 1939 time, germany was rising as the hegemon in europe and dictacting the moral highground. What's there not to understand?
Dude, I swear, you're the dumbest person I encountered in 4chan long ago.
>cries about ''genocide'' of Germans
>people don't even deny crimes happened but explain why they happened
>then tries to whitewash Nazis
>gets told that Nazis actually occupied lands not inhabited by Germans
>gets told ''German'' lands in Poland were actually Polish for centuries before Germans occupied them
>uses the ''Germanic tribe lived in that general area 1000 years ago, so it's German'' argument
>BUT IT'S COOL, MUH EMPIRE, GERMANS CAN DO WHATEVER THEY WANT BUT IF YOU DO SOMETHING TO GERMANS IT'S CRIME
Do you have diagnosed autism or something?
>>BUT IT'S COOL, MUH EMPIRE, GERMANS CAN DO WHATEVER THEY WANT BUT IF YOU DO SOMETHING TO GERMANS IT'S CRIME
thats literally how /pol/tards and stormfags think. They are doing some serious mental gymnastics.
Yep. That's why I said earlier this shit should be banned.
These people aren't interested in discussing history. They want to push their propaganda, which at it's basis is simply ''my group or group I like is above any morals or laws''.
We're talking about Germans in WW2.
As much as I disagree with American policies, comparing them with Nazis can only be done by a lunatic like you.
If you want to talk about Americans, open a thread on /pol/ or /int/.
another example of mental gymnastics.
>Start topic about ww2
>proves that he knows nothing about the events except his neo nazi propaganda
>tries to drag modern times USA into it because there is clearly a link between today USA and events that happened 70 years ago.
I fucking hate you autistic /pol/ tards.
Wherever you post, you will always ruin everythign with your unrelated charts and bragging about a few cherrypicked events.
We do not want you here, fuck off.
I understand that perfectly.
However, you're trying to defend that. At the same time you cry about expulsion of Germans.
So according to your ill logic, when Germans do crimes it's natural and cool, but when crimes are committed against Germans it's the greatest crime ever.
You have a cognitive dissonance.
People tend to forget that Western Germany by no means always was the leftist shithole it is today. Postwar they had a golden generation of politicians. Adenauer! Brandt! Schmidt! Strauß! Barzel! Wehner!
With the advent of the modern left, the CDU liberalising and the FDP's downfall however it all went to shit.
It is hard to estimate. It was probably not to the extent of the mass extermination suffered at the hands of Nazi Germany, nor whatever the far-right historians claim it to be (history has always been politically motivated, so it is hard not to show a bias), but given the numbers of people that crossed into Germany, and after the partition, into Western/Eastern Germany, it is probably a fairly short number of victims and hardly surpassing the 1000-3000 deaths, mostly of those who were sickly already or young children dying of innanition.
im from eastern europe and everione here knows it happened, it dont have to be taught in schools, also it makes sense and no one sees a problem with it, action-reaction and all that
also, there was so much killing and torture AFTER WW2 no one realy even had time to notice a few tens of thousands volksdojčers removed here or there, it was a continent-vide carnival of retributional carnage, mostly by people from the same ethnic group, same place of birth, same family even, taking care of their own, as well as comunists getting rid of any possible future political opposition while they still could