I'm pretty sure many here can accept that it did happen, but not at such an exaggerated scale. There were many other factors that lead to so many Jews being killed, and even then 6 million is a bit much.
straight from the horses mouth: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4AFhwwgL-94
"During the time of my struggle for power it was in the first instance the Jewish race which only received my prophecies with laughter when I said that I would one day take over the leadership of the State, and with it that of the whole nation, and that I would then among many other things settle the Jewish problem. Their laughter was uproarious, but I think that for some time now they have been laughing on the other side of their face. Today I will once more be a prophet: If the international Jewish financiers in and outside Europe should succeed in plunging the nations once more into a world war, then the result will not be the Bolshevization of the earth, and thus the victory of Jewry, but the annihilation of the Jewish race in Europe! "
~ t. hitler January 30, 1939 Speech in front of the Reichstag
>>27301 Even so, you'll rarely if ever see anyone present information contrary to their understanding of the period, or attempt to debunk their ideas in a normal /pol/ thread. It might actually lead to some interesting discussion -if both sides acknowledge each other and don't resort to arrows to other boards and websites, that is.
>>27137 Okay, actual /his/coolers, if you want to keep this board up, I suggest one of you takes up the minorly monumental task of preparing an inforgraphic with actually verified historical sources and urls, that can shut down the vast majority of /pol/ bait and stormfront shitposting. Holocaust denialism will just keep coming up, and you're not going to stop it because /pol/fags will just spout muh freespeech despite not realizing it's not that we're offended, we just believe them to be historically wrong and harming discourse. Is anyone up for this?
Why did not a single nazi contest the charges brought against them in court? Every single instance that I know of they simply said they were following orders? Surely if they had not committed any crimes they would try to disprove the claims of the prosecutors, right?
8 million nazis were interviewed in a year after world war II, and thousands gave detailed accounts of their roles in the holocaust. If naziboos are to believed, EVERY SINGLE ONE of them were made under torture. If this is the case why has not a SINGLE nazi come out in the decades after world war II and recanted their testimony?
>>27137 You know, I think I'll repost my thoughts on this matter from the last thread, in response to this pic.
>1. Why would the Nazi's want to kill Jews? An excellent question, one that has been asked fore 70 years. While the decision to wipe the entire Jewish ethnic group from the face of the earth may never be fully answered, as many of the central figures of the Nazi heirarchy are dead, we do know that they did not begin their persecution with the intent to exterminate. When the Nazi's came to power they started to persecuting them in relatively small ways, such as IDing them and requiring them to wear the gold star. In the beginning it seemed they were more focused on disenfranchising them and excluding them from certain sectors of German society. At one point they attempted to exile them to nearby states, and later to Palestine when they had conquered said states. The exact reason the leaders of the Nazi Party abandoned this approach isn't fully clear, but could have been motivated by a desperation on their part, or the feeling they were sufficiently secure in their grip on power to pull it off without consequences, I'm not sure. In any case labor was hardly a resources Germany was severely lacking at that point. Their factories were getting bombed and they were scrambling for the resources to use in them, but they had enough workers for their needs, slave or otherwise.
>2. Why did they use such inefficient methods? Bullets are cheaper than gas. I actually stopped and laughed at this. Despite what impression you might get from hollywood or vidya, bullets are really fucking expensive. A single 5.56 round that is the default bullet of infantry throughout NATO costs something like $1.50 today, and Germans were using all kinds of specialty rounds that caused hell for their logistics. Poison gasses, pound for pound, are way way cheaper for an industrial killing machine, that's half the reason the Germans started using it.
It's like modern Britons who refuse to ever vote Conservative because of how the evil Thatcher destroyed their parents and grandparents, and to this day they get angry whenever Conservatives are mentioned
>thousands of testimonies from every side involved, including Germans involved >most researched subject in modern history >almost every historian who's not pressured by ideology (like in Iran) agrees Holocaust did happen and that millions were killed >most of dissidents simply disagree some minor issues, not that it happened >tens of thousands of works, shitload of primary sources >average /pol/tard refutes it all because he watched one YT video Now seriously, get a fucking grip.
>>27565 The other half of that reason was to dehumanize the experience for the men actually doing the killing. Ruthlessly gunning down entire villages of innocent women and children proved to be emotionally trying for many soldiers, some of whom knew their victims personally. I recall one report of a group of soldiers participating in such a massacre actually recognizing one of the corpses as a women who ran a cinema they liked to frequent. Having gas chambers only required one man to flip a switch without ever seeing the condemned, and killing so many of them he became jaded about what he was doing. Far more efficient, hence it's application to millions as an industry.
>3. How are we to believe such unreliable witness testimony? Well, firstly because there's such an extreme abundance of it. Corroboration is a thing, and there are so many innumberable, independently verified cases that have come forward that I can't even come up with a description of how idiotic and biased one would have to be to question it with a straight face. Seriously. Even if you discount the Nuremburg testimonies, the survivors with numbers on their wrists, and the soldiers who found the camps, there is still an overwhelming amount of evidence. Paton forced an entire town to march the camps and see what was done there just to stop this kind of delusion, you can take a goddamn TOUR of the gas chambers today, and still you claim there is a lack of evidence. How much do you fucking need?
>>27601 >4. Only Soviets found the death camps, are you really going to believe them? Blatantly false. Numerous Allied armies encountered death camps on their march East. As mentioned above Patton found and went through much effort to document the Ohrdruf camps. It is true that the retreating Nazis attempted to disassemble the most incriminating pieces of evidence in the Western camps, but not all to the same extent and the second hand evidence of their operation was prolific. Heaps of emaciated corpses, mass graves, etc, etc.
>5. Why are only the Jews remembered, and other supposed victims forgotten? Partly because no other ethnic groups were targeted so widely in the operation, but also because many Zionists have a vested interest in making sure everyone knows about what happened to them and have so many avenues in English speaking academia/media to do so. Yes, /pol/, you were right in part about this one, I'll give you that. The holocaust has become a core aspect of Israels founding story, and part of the justification they give for fighting so fiercely for it. Also many Jews high up in American media today. If there were a significant number of Gypsies or Slavs in the buisness I garuntee you we'd hear more of their story, they certainly talk about among themselves often enough.
>6. Why is the Holocaust so much more important than other genocides? Because it was an advanced, sophisticated culture at the heart of the Western world that perpetrated it. Nobody quite believed a Christian, western country could do something like that, and completely sank the prominent idea at the time that science and progress would inevitably improve humanity in every way. Progress alone did nothing to weed out humankinds bottomless capacity for cruelty, so instead western society took the holocaust as a lesson we could never, ever afford to forget. Hence the reason it comes up all the time.
>>24018 >>24296 You want the initial reason Nazi's went after the Jews? My bad, assumed it was common knowledge. Short of it they were used as a target for some of the hate that helped unify and rally Germany behind the Nazis. They were richer than average Germans in completely crashed economy, they were more educated and a many of the hated communists were Jews. It was and easy connection to make. Then things sort of snowballed from there.
>7. Why is it illegal to doubt the holocaust? All free thinking societies should be free to express anything! Didn't know this could land you in jail anywhere, but the reason everybody abhors the holocaust denialism is because of the statement above. I know it's legal to do where I live, but the reason it's taboo everywhere in the english speaking world is because people fear they could one day they could do something so appalling.
>>27621 Because you don't want to see it. Read fucking Wikipedia article, article on Holocaust is extremely well written and cited. Just Google it. But thing is, you DON'T WANT TO KNOW WHAT HAPPENED. You want to force people to adopt your insane view.
>9 leaders of the communist revolution were Jewish >Now you might, more or less, know why Jews were later on despised in Germany. >9 leaders >9 >Now you might, more or less, know why Jews were later on despised in Germany.
Do you retards even read the shit you write? This is hilarious.
>>27530 There are many evidences that could fill entire books, but that seems to me quite striking is that Nazi criminals did not deny the crimes. Neither the great leaders who were risking their lives in the Nuremberg trials, and in more than 20 trials before and after Nuremberg, neither the witnesses nor the participants in this systematic genocide, and its defenders, dared to say that the crime was nonexistent or even exaggerated, let alone to try to prove that point.
In short, those who committed the Holocaust admitted it.
>but muh torture
They agreed that the extermination program had happened because there were proofs. Incontrovertible, strong and fresh, so that their warm defense was that "they weren't aware of what was happening" (words of Albert Speer, Alfred Rosenberg used the same defense), or it was not their responsibility (Hans Frank said all extermination camps under its responsibility in Poland was in charge of Himmler), or tried to avoid proposing "humanitarian" measures such as mass sterilization (Wilhelm Stuckart) or that did not learn until Posen speech of Himmler in 1943 (August Frank, economic administrator Reich until 1943), or were powerless over the situation despite being very powerful (Hermann Goering), and even that "any personal code of ethics must surrender to the total character of war "(Karl Brandt) http://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/nazi-germany/nazi-leaders/karl-brandt/ ... and some people like Irma Grese that after recognizing its role in selecting prisoners for the gas chambers, transferred the responsibility to Himmler.
Notable are the testimonies of those who were in charge of the camps, as Rudolph Hoess, commandant of Auschwitz from 1940 to 1943. In his statement, he detailed how he experimented with various poisons for killing more efficiently kill up to 2,000 people per hour (problem was what was burning, he said). http://mailstar.net/Hoss-Memoirs.html
>>27725 That's the thing, it's impossible to discuss with them, they have 1000 pictures saved, and all of them are full of bullshit. So he just posts picture, you try to disprove it, and then he posts another and you're too tired to respond to his idiocies so he ''wins''. And then he repeats this little game of his over and over. That's why Holocaust discussion should be fucking banned. It attracts retards who ruin discussion for everyone.
>>27217 You know what, fine: I'll go ahead and try and treat this as a matter of honest engagement. You have 21 Questions, that I'm going to treat as honest Questions. I'm sure you'll be happy to have these laid to rest.
1) A variety of factors, the most obvious of which is that the annihilation of a people is an extremely intensive task. While the prisoners were awaiting annihilation, there was an effort to extract as much labor as possible from the prisoners, both for the war effort and the officials own personal enrichment.
This also is based on misinformation. Elie Wiesel was not a prisoner for several years. He was deported from Hungary in 1944, and freed in early 1945.
2) The answer is simple, and one of the most important problems in Holocaust Denial: It simply wasn't regarded as important at the time. It wasn't until the 1960s, and the Eichmann trial that the Holocaust became paramount among the Nazis crimes.
3) The camps were massive, sprawling enterprises enclosing thousands of people, working countless tasks. An infirmary would be needed to keep things orderly. As for the Brothel, it was created as a reward for the kapos, prisoners who would perform security functions on the other prisoners.
4) The Germans certainly did a lot of that. The definitive and incredibly well documented example of that is Reserve Police Battallion 101.
The general reasons are this:
Shooting people in the field is actually a lot more complicated and messy than is thought.
Soldiers maintain discipline by creating strict parameters about when and how they can apply lethal violence. The act of genocide breaks down those parameters, and with it, discipline.
Units deployed for mass executions began suffering from PTSD and alcoholism in large numbers, as well as facing increased rates of general offenses such as thieving, fighting and disrespect for officers.
>>27772 >mfw naziboos have an incredible burden of proof but then freely use sources such as David Irving, and the IHR to support their claims when such sources and their research have been deemed in a court of law to be rubbish (see Irving v Penguin Books Ltd)
>>27604 This is something that needs to be said, actually machine gunning civilians en masse was pretty brutal on the troops doing so, suicides in those units were quite high. The Gas solution lessened the psychological burden on the murders.
>>27779 Yeah that was a mistake on my part, closer to 50 cents. Point being anytime you unload a full automatic weapon it's going to be costly. Lining people up in trenches and hosing them with lead simply isn't an economically efficient means of genocide, and we all know the Nazi's were sticklers for efficiency.
60,000,000 people died in world War 2. That was 2.5% of the population of the world. Encyclopedia Britannica estimated the world's jewish population at 6,200,000 in 1900. Next get a calculator and multiply 365 times 5. That gives us 1825 days in 5 yrs. Then we divide 6000000 by 1825. That gives us 3287 people to be exterminated every day without taking one day off. Today they say there were 6 death camps. Auschwitz had 15 cremation ovens. So we will use that number for ALL the camps. These ovens held one body at a time. 15 ovens times 6 camps is 90 ovens total. So 90 cremations could take place at once time in all. The top of the line crematorium today can cremate a body in 2 hours. Let's say that in the 1930s the Germans had it down and could duplicate todays best. So we multiply 90 times 12. That gives us 1080 possible cremations per day without wasting a second. When you subtract 1080 cremations from the mandatory 3287 deaths per day and we have 2207 bodies that didn't get cremated. If you multiply 2207 bodies times 1825 days in 5 years and you have 4,027,775 bodies that didn't get cremated. Where are the bodies?
>>27697 Who photoshopped these? Find some reference to all those images that suggests it was photoshopped by people intending to cover it up, rather than people producing those to push the narrative that all images are faked You can't just post shit like this, regardless about your beliefs, otherwise this place is going to turn to shit
>>27859 You can literally dispute anything with ''conspiracy'' theory. Like, Finland doesn't exist. It's just a Jewish conspiracy to make us think it exists. Did any of you every visit Finland? See, no such place. All information on internet and all ''Finns'' you see are simply fabrication. You can't prove to me this isn't Jewish conspiracy.
>>27859 >mfw naziboos think that all contrary opinions and all evidence against the nazis are part of some grand conspiracy pulled off by 0.12% of the world's population widely scattered throughout the world.
>>27340 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dtlPlZGvgY0 Most of them aren't lying, they were just told that when they got separated from their families that their families were gassed. The families were simply transported to other camps or parts of Europe. The camps were shitty, but the Germans made an attempt at making them humane, with orchestras, hospitals, plays, etc.
Proud was also Fritz Klein, a physician at Bergen-Belsen, who said "My Hippocratic Oath tells me extirpates the gangrenous appendix in the body. The Jews are the gangrenous appendix of mankind. Therefore the Excise". https://www.pinterest.com/pin/463589355363082978/ And there is the declaration of Alfred Trzebinski, supervisor of cruel medical experiments, that the children who were executed "Jews only" as if that would lower the atrocity.
In 1961, when the head of the deportation of Jews, Adolf Eichmann was captured in Argentina and brought to trial, he explicitly said he did not dispute the facts of the Holocaust, but he had acted simply "following orders". He also admitted after trying to deny it, that in 1945 he said: "I'll jump into my grave laughing because the feel that five million human beings in my consciousness, is for me a source of extraordinary satisfaction." http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/worldwars/genocide/eichmann_01.shtml Later, already condemned, in a private correspondence he regretted that they had not fulfilled the mission to kill Jews 10.3 million, the total number in occupied Europe. The same happened in other specific judgments as 1996 Erich Priebke, who accepted his crimes as captain of the SS in Rome, but shied away from the responsibility also saying that "he was following only orders" and just in 2012 with the Hungarian Nazi Laszlo Csatary occurred the same was not his defense "did not happen", but "following orders".
I always thought the whole "blame everything on jews" was just a stupid meme. But recently I've started reading about the immense constrol of central banks, and who is behind the banks. On top of them all is the Rothschild family.
They control every single Central Bank on the planet, except two: Cuba and North Korea. 2000 that number was 7: Cuba, NK, Afghanistan, Lybia, Sudan, Iraq and Iran. Is it really coincidence that exactly those countries have been in all Media for the past 15 years? The leaders of Iraq, Sudan, Afghanistan and Lybia were taken down by the West (America and Britain), the puppets of the Rothschild. Iran was bribed with the atomic deal and increasing tensions with the West scared them of opposing the Jew. Cuba is now entering deals with the US and NK has been in the news lately as well.
The Rothschilds fortune, estimated between 500 and 700 TRILLION dollars, comes primarely from plunging all nations into debt. They control the money, the control the gold, they control the governments. They control or have deals with almost all banks everywhere, which in turn have control over the media. The reason why you see so much leftist propaganda in the media is because they orchestrate it. Leftist politics lead to debt and money printing, the business of the Rothschild.
Is it coincidence that Isreal is strangely backed by the US, for seemingly no reason? Is it coincidence that Nazi Germany lost WW2? Is it coincidence that every politician who aims to reduces the national debt (Lincoln, Kennedy, ...) or challenges the banks (Haider in this country) is assasinated? Is it coincidence that every hot spot in the world right now is next to Europe? They want refugees to come here, to break Europe and the Euro. They want to create a single world currency. A drug on which everyone is dependant on.
>>27900 That's their sick logic, because they are mostly anti-social people who don't know how people interact and how world works. In their mind, Jews, a persecuted group of 16 million, still hated in many parts of world, manages to control every court, every academician, every government, every media. They seriously think this is possible. Though it's true Jews have disproportionate influence in media kek.
>>27932 We have the testimony of the perpetrators, the testimony of the victims (survivors, some prominent as Primo Levi and Elie Wiesel, but mostly of thousands more), the testimony of the soldiers who liberated the camps, the gas chambers, invoices industrial designs and crematoria of Topf and Sons to burn thousands of bodies a day, the disappearance of millions of Jews and Gypsies of Europe, the declared Nazi attitude towards those considered "inferior" ... data to bore. Conclusive data. In fact, the Nazi genocide is one of the best documented crimes in history, partly because of bureaucratic thoroughness of the Nazis, who recorded in documents carefully who entered the camps, who was destined to die as a slave worker and who was exterminated immediately, belongings, etc.
>The Holocaust: A History of the Jews of Europe During the Second World War Is probably the best one-volume history >The Destruction of the European Jews Is also good, but it's worth noting that it was published in the 60s and is missing on some recent historiography On that note, >Rethinking the Holocaust Is good if you're interested in the recent stuff, although it assumes a good general knowledge of the period already.
>>27933 >for seemingly no reason Only if you don't know shit about geopolitics. Also, Jewish lobby is strong in USA. But reasons are mostly American interest. Israel is/was American proxy in Middle East.
>>27946 You'd be surprised how much in common /pol/autists have in common with SJWs. For starters, both of them unironically believe in ridiculous conspiracy theories that the world is controlled by a small group of people (Jews/The Patriarchy) and how they are always the 'victims' of their trickery. It's quite sad.
Except there's no supporting evidence for this at all. The Rothschilds are just a get out of jail free card for whenever a stormfag is confronted with any of the countless non-Jews with huge amounts of power. They just scream MUH ROTHSCHILDS and any politician, banker, CEO, business owner, or other authority is now conveniently a Jewish puppet. Let's of course just ignore the fact that even if the Rothschild were the power behind everything, that would be the fucking Rothschilds, not "Jews."
I left 4chan for a while, came back, marvel at the new announcement about the creation of /his/, carefully read the rules about "no /pol/" on the sticky and this is literally the first thread I read. Good job, OP. The holocaust of my sides did happen at least.
Unless holocaust denialism is ban, this board will be over-run with it imo due to the demographics of certain parts of this site and their crank idea of history & them seeing this as a good place to "troll/convert/redpill" people
>>28139 Yes, but then they just reappear in the next thread about the Holocaust. It just keeps going around in circles. This topic has been discussed to hell and back on 4chan already and nothing has changed.
Lmao @ the weak arguments for banning holocaust denialism. "Only cuz we get over-run" etc. Yeah that's a factor, a significant one. The other factor is that it's bullshit. Conceding the former and not the latter is giving the stormfags a conciliatory handjob.
>>278005 5) This isn't all that surprising. The Third Reich was a a tangled, lawless mess that worked on the principle of 'working towards the fuhrer'. That is, rather than waiting for orders from above, officials should anticipate the fuhrer's desires and work towards those on their own initiative. As such, it would be unnecesary and uncharacteristic for the Fuhrer-State to produce a single document outlining their plans for European Jewry. I would go so far as to say the Fuhrer-State was incapable of producing such a thing.
Further tens of thousands of people would not be required for such a plan to unfold. The usual list of those involved in direct planning is reserved to a few figures within the RHSA.
6) Well, the reason is very simple: Treblinka was the 'flagship' of the murderous enterprise, but it was hardly the only part. Early estimates on the death toll in Treblinka were based on estimates of the total number of Jews killed. As per your question number 4, it became apparent as time went on that loads of people never even made it to Treblinka, they were shot on the spot.
7) The use of euphemisms is common practice in other crimes against humanity, including Soviet, Rwandan, Japanese, and Chinese crimes.
Consider for example, the use of the term 'logs' by members of Unit 731 to refer to prisoners.
It is difficult and unnerving for people, people who consider themselves civilized to talk about mass murder, especially the mass murder of old men, women, and children.
8) The bodies were not burned in pits. When they were burned, it was in the Crematorium. When the Crematoria were overfilled, these were supplemented by open air burnings.
9) This question is too vague to give a proper answer to. If you can source specific claims about Dachau and Bergen-Belsen, I can do some research and trace the pattern of those specific claims.
10) I will admit, I do not have the relevant technical expertise to answer this question.
>>28199 True but then you trigger them so they start spamming pictures from Stormfront. /pol/tards are same shit as SJW's, moronic people not interested in any discussion. They just want their worldview to become norm for everyone. If you disagree, you're a Jew shill kike. Of course, shitload of people simply troll. That's why Holocaust discussion should be banned, for both reasons.
>>27727 See >>27998 >I am now referring to the evacuation of the Jews, the extermination of the Jewish people. It's one of those things that is easily said: 'The Jewish people is to be exterminated', says every party member, 'this is very obvious, it's in our program, elimination of the Jews, extermination right, we'll do it'. And then they all come along 80 million good Germans, and each one has his decent Jew. Of course the others are all swines, but this particular one is a first-class Jew. Of all those who talk like this, not one has watched, not one has stood up to it. To have endured through this and yet, apart from a few exceptions, examples human weaknesses, to have remained decent, this has made us hard.This is a glorious chapter in our history that has never been written and shall never be written.....
>>27137 Even jews themselves have told me that none of them believe the official story, there is too much that doesn't add up and seems to be the biggest lie ever told. Pretty obvious that it was a way to demonise the german population so we don't feel bad about firebombing all their cities or possible nuking them.
>>28270 Jesus fuck I'm trying to refrain myself but I just can't because of the hypocrisy. I've seen shit-flinging from both sides, and NEITHER has refuted a single of the other side's arguments. /pol/ isn't refuting any arguments, and even their sourced macros aren''t being refuted.
>>28326 "Refuting arguments" >4chan There's a reason why it should be banned. It's bad for the kids who come here & read Neo-Nazi propaganda. Most of them are poorly socialised impressionable dweebs and the last thing their chances of getting laid needs is adoption of a Neo-Nazi ideology. /pol/ and /r9k/ are a homeostasis of celibacy and betadom.
>be regular on /int/ because i enjoy other cultures and history >see there's a new history and humanities board >wew lad, perfect >look at most active thread >did le holocaust really happen?????? :oooo You fucking niggers, you ruin everything
>>28273 >Pretty obvious that it was a way to demonise the german population so we don't feel bad about firebombing all their cities or possible nuking them. That's so fucking retarded, they didn't give a fuck about firebombing the Germans for one thing, the logic was "They bombed us, so fuck those guys". Secondly the bulk of the Revelations above the Holocaust only surfaced after the war, where is the good in justifying something years after it happened?
>>27159 It's this shit that puts a lot of doubt into my mind about a lot of info I hear.
The other big problem is how much of it is "eye witness" stuff but it's often contradictory. Instead of getting to the truth it seems like a lot of historians (or the public at least) has just taken the most common shit as fact.
I know the holocaust happened, I just want to know to what scale it was really at, and how many of those Jewish deaths were systematic executions rather than due to sickness.
What most of this thread is is just each side posting stuff that supports their opinion. What I'd love to see is explanations for why the opposing sides materials exists besides "theyre crazy"
>>27434 It's not, there's a fuck load of arguing and even discussion there. Infact it's often better than here because you don't have people constantly whining about /pol/ over there or shitposting like you, which just ruins debate
>>28366 Actually I said there isn't overwhelming proof and muh holocaust denialism has no defence. I wouldn't even bother to posit it as a hypothetical because of >>28381 It's about us grown ups being responsible internet users for kids who are probably going to shoot up their schools if we don't set responsible guidelines
>>28311 >If you studied history at a university I bet they were very careful to keep you sucking on their kool aid. You fucking moron, if you had ever studies history past fucking primary school you'd know that that most of what they teach you is HOW TO STUDY history, how to do research, how to look up primary sources, how to vett those sources. What do you think a degree in history is? Some guy lecturing about established doctrine for 8 semesters? Are you fucking stupid?
>>28423 >contradictory >people who went through fucking hellish conditions don't recall what happened with 100% accuracy >it's Jewish conspiracy! >shitload of German officials admit it >they were forced! >material evidence >falsified by Jews! >historians working with primary sources >forced by Jews! What kind of argument do you want? Do you want us to invent a time travel machine so you can go to Auschwitz to see what happened, or to Babi Yar so you can see Einsatzgruppen shooting tens of thousands of people? You know what the dumbest thing is, Holocaust doesn't even fucking matter. More Slavs were killed by Nazis than Jews. 1/4 of Belarus was extinguished by Germans. Hundreds of villages torched to the ground, some with inhabitants. In Yugoslavia, in one day 3000 people were shot because some German soldiers were killed by partisans. Even if everything about Holocaust is false, Nazis committed shitload of other crimes. You simply can't whitewash them.
>>28533 As a marxist academic I can authentically refute that "marxist graduate students" are a lilliputian minority. The mainstream ideological current in academia is a kind of vague and diffuse liberal progressivism. Marxists and conservatives are both thought of as "to the right" of the mainstream institutionalised French brainrot (Foucauldian, Postcolonial, Deconstructionist).
>>28536 you know, why not refute their pics instead of just arguing around it?
I'm not a /pol/ user and I believe the holocaust happened, but rather than posting ad-hominens and argumentative fallacies, I think you should actually just point out why the holohoax shit is fake.
For example if someone insisted the world was flat, the easier way of refuting him would be to say 'well look at these evidences'. Simplying calling him autistic and saying 'hurr your argument is presented throuh a picture', doesn't really take away his credence. (it takes away yours)
>>28555 >it doesn't really matter because it's been so engrained into history over the past century There is a reason for that. There are still a marginalized group of faggots trying to say nazis dindu nuffin. Also fuck off tripfag.
>>28517 Why won't you any of you ever acknowledge the crimes done to the german people by the soviets and Americans after the war? Oh yes that right doesn't fit in with the WE GOOD GUYS THEY BAD GUYS narrative.
>>28489 Why fucking bother arguing with holocaust deniers always falls back to "That's just Jew propaganda". You can bring up the literally hundreds of thousands of survivors, the photographs, the psychical evidence, the perpetrators who confessed, the German records that record it, the fucking mass graves it doesn't matter the response is always the same. >>28533 Confirmed for never having set foot inside inside a University, or probably even a high school
>>28470 Check this out >>27217 >>27800 Literally someone trying to refute someone else but it gets ignored, no one even tries to refute him everyone just keeps posting macros, complaining or telling people to go back to /pol/ There is no discussion, just circlejerk, the reason why no one tries to uphold a discussion is because no one will participate
>>28510 That was not OP. The 2nd and 3rd responses were the same person sockpuppeting to derail the thread into equating the notion of banning holocaust denialism with dismissal of all evidence. In all likelihood, you are the very same sockpuppet.
>>28605 Those crimes did happen. No one denies them. You dumb fucking retard. However, people didn't suddenly start killing Germans. Germans did suddenly start invading lands and claiming their ''living space'' left and right. Do you understand? Germans started the chain of violence, not Slavs, or French, or British.
>>28558 >>28589 >I'm so smart look at me dont question anything that I say oy vey To >>28619 I graduated university it was awful, if you do not agree with everything they say you are basically ostracised, I was a good goy at the time though but I knew something wasn't right. I think you boys need to think carefully about why you believe what you do.
In the eyes of a retard maybe. If you don't know how to think critically at a basic level then that's your problem. In reality, addressing them would be like acknowledging that they're human at all, which is already lending too much credibility to a /pol/ shill.
There is no evidence for holocaust denial. All of it will be emitting a minute detail or ignoring something important. That's how 9/11 Truthers works. That's how Holocaust deniers work. /his/ does not deserve to become a second fucking /pol/. If you want to talk about your lunatic conspiracy theories, go circlejerk with the rest of the Nazis on /pol/.
>West did not long for war https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saar_Offensive >assist poles who were both hunting jews and etnic germans. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloody_Sunday_(1939) http://www.thefuhrerbunker.com/WWII.htm
Some random shit to consider with "top notch" sources.
Anti-semitism/anti-bankerism/anti-finance capital is just the retarded, uneducated version of anti-capitalism, that is common on both the left (Occupy Wall Street) and the right (Holocaust Denial).
Please read some economic history (history rather than graphs and theories, and the mainstream stuff preferably). You'll quickly see how the world economy works and that there is no "Jew" hidden in the process of the accumulation and extraction of profit, just rational choices made by rational agents in a system of maximising profit that doesn't have some utopian setting that automatically makes everyone happy, but leaves a lot of people miserably well off and well miserable, so they invent or embrace ideologies that distort this reality and lay the blame on fantastic creatures or illusions.
>be on /tv/ for 8 year or so >working on phd >getting bored with all the /pol/ bullshit these days >discover there is /his/ >same holocaust denial crap Why guys? Why can't you read a book written by a proper historian instead of posting bullshit images you found on the internet.
>>27434 Here's a selection of things I see on /pol/ almost every single day:
Bernie threads Trump threads (less often) Hillary threads Assad/Putin supporters Syrian rebel/ISIS supporters >Libertarians are retards >Statists are retards Atheism general Christian general
and this is just a small sampling. 4Chan isn't a reddit-tier hugbox where you're only exposed to opinions you're comfortable with - unpopular and controversial opinions actually get BUMPED. You should spend a bit of time on /pol/, ask some questions, see what it's all about. You might just find that the reason particular opinions are so popular there is that they're correct.
>>28642 >>28655 >>28677 Look at these fucking dorks proving the point entirely, after all the falsified 'evidence' presented like zyklon b and fucking skin lampshades and shit American and soviet troops had no qualms whatsoever about treating the German civilians like animals, they became the monster they invented.
>>28858 Anyone who believes that 6 million died in the Holocaust is an obvious Jewish shill. The real number is closer to 12 million, when you account for Slavs, gypsies, homosexuals etc who were also killed.
>>28858 Actually I haven't seen much refuted, One guy went after the list of questions and I appreciate him actually tackling the them.
The rest of this thread is basically people just complaining about /pol/
I'm not a /pol/-tard, and I'd welcome some refutations of what the /pol/ people are posting, but all that is happening is the following
>/pol/ posts inforaph >someone replies hurr durr fuck off /pol/ >someone says well refute it >some says hurr durr /pol/ will call me a jew and then goes on to say how there is no space for discussion here
>>28754 >>28755 Literally proving my point. You're nothing more than retards who think they're among good company. Probably haven't even been here for more than a year with this much of a tumblr mentality.
Here's some fun quotes: Holocaust survivor Vera Alexander on Dr Mengele >I remember one set of twins in particular: Guido and Ina, aged about four. One day, Mengele took them away. When they returned, they were in a terrible state: they had been sewn together, back to back, like Siamese twins. Their wounds were infected and oozing pus. They screamed day and night. Then their parents—I remember the mother's name was Stella—managed to get some morphine and they killed the children in order to end their suffering. Hitler in 1922 >Once I really am in power, my first and foremost task will be the annihilation of the Jews. As soon as I have the power to do so, I will have gallows built in rows—at the Marienplatz in Munich, for example—as many as traffic allows. Then the Jews will be hanged indiscriminately, and they will remain hanging until they stink; they will hang there as long as the principles of hygiene permit. As soon as they have been untied, the next batch will be strung up, and so on down the line, until the last Jew in Munich has been exterminated. Other cities will follow suit, precisely in this fashion, until all Germany has been completely cleansed of Jews. Hans Frank, governor of occupied Poland >I ask nothing of the Jews except that they should disappear.
>>28971 Nazi offical Victor Brack, in a letter to Hitler >Dear Reichsführer, among tens of millions of Jews in Europe, there are, I figure, at least two to three millions of men and women who are fit enough to work. Considering the extraordinary difficulties the labour problem presents us with, I hold the view that those two to three millions should be specially selected and preserved. This can, however, only be done if at the same time they are rendered incapable to propagate. About a year ago I reported to you that agents of mine had completed the experiments necessary for this purpose. I would like to recall these facts once more. Sterilization, as normally performed on persons with hereditary diseases, is here out of the question, because it takes too long and is too expensive. Castration by X-ray however is not only relatively cheap, but can also be performed on many thousands in the shortest time. I think that at this time it is already irrelevant whether the people in question become aware of having been castrated after some weeks or months, once they feel the effects. Should you, Reichsführer, decide to choose this way in the interest of the preservation of labor, then Reichsleiter Bouhler would be prepared to place all physicians and other personnel needed for this work at your disposal. Likewise he requested me to inform you that then I would have to order the apparatus so urgently needed with the greatest speed. Heil Hitler! Yours, VIKTOR BRACK.
Please fuck off and die you ignorant morons. Go browse a similar thread on /pol/ to understand why the people who actually know what they're talking about don't waste their time refuting /pol/ "info"graphs. Most of them aren't even arguments to begin with, which just proves how stupid the person who saved them is.
>hurr durr look at this crazy claim someone made about the holocaust! too ridiculous to be true!
How are you supposed to refute that? Sit the /pol/ drone down like he's in second grade and explain to him how critical thinking works at the most basic level?
>>28988 Nazi official Rudolf Brant, in a report to Himmler >We have a nearly complete collection of skulls of all races and peoples at our disposal. Only very few specimens of skulls of the Jewish race, however, are available with the result that it is impossible to arrive at precise conclusions from examining them. The war in the East now presents us with the opportunity to overcome this deficiency. By procuring the skulls of the Jewish-Bolshevik Commissars, who represent the prototype of the repulsive, but characteristic subhuman, we have the chance now to obtain a palpable, scientific document.
>>28971 Well that speech (by Hitler) was simply political inflammatory bullshit. Decision to exterminate Jews was made much later. Before that, they toyed with various ideas. Like often mentioned expulsion to Madagascar.
>>28901 Yeah, meta posting is such a joy and I think it will be in the end the death of this board. Then again, if it's moderated well this board could be the crossroads between /pol/ and the rest of the site.
To kickstart the (meta) discussion on your question, here's an infographic. There's also >>27888 (hitler trips coincidentally) and my own query regarding the forensic details.
11) Because that was an urban legend. As early as 1950 the lamphsades from human skin was denied in court. If the claim is dying out, that's a good thing. This also shows the narrative plausibility of the holocaust. If the whole thing was a fabrication, why would they create fabrications in some cases, but not the other?
12) This is untrue. There is a single reference to steam chambers, and electrical grids in the Nuremberg trials, in a single document offered by the Polish Government in exile, mentions them in passing. No evidence was presented for them, no one was questioned, sentenced or executed for operating them.
14) Not particularly, unless symbolic equivalence means literal equivalence. Auschwitz was a sprawling complex holding thousands of people, and Wiesel never went near the gas chambers. There was no reason for him to mention a thing he did not see.
15) As an oral historian, this doesn't surprise me. Almost every soldier I've talk to personally had Winston Churchill salute them. They were examined by a doctor, Doctor Mengele entered their mind at a later time, and the symbols became conjoined. Human memory is not a video recording, but symbol based.
16) I would guess because of inaccurate use of the equipment, or inaccurate reading of documents (which is very, very common with holocaust deniers).
I would also suspect that because sonar is a method for penetrating water. You'd have more luck with radar, which HAS been used to find mass graves.
17) It depends on how you're defining 'hard evidence.' You've brought a direct comparison to the OJ Simpson trial. The physical evidence consisted of hair and blood samples, along with shoe and glove prints, that indicate he was at the scene of the crime.
I can point you towards countless pieces of evidence that the Germans were there at Treblinka, not the least of which is the physical structure of Treblinka itself.
>>29005 Rudlof Hoss on Auschwitz >Another improvement we made over Treblinka was that we built our gas chambers to accommodate 2,000 people at one time, whereas at Treblinka their 10 gas chambers only accommodated 200 people each. The way we selected our victims was as follows: we had two SS doctors on duty at Auschwitz to examine the incoming transports of prisoners. The prisoners would be marched by one of the doctors who would make spot decisions as they walked by. Those who were fit for work were sent into the Camp. Others were sent immediately to the extermination plants. Children of tender years were invariably exterminated, since by reason of their youth they were unable to work. Still another improvement we made over Treblinka was that at Treblinka the victims almost always knew that they were to be exterminated and at Auschwitz we endeavored to fool the victims into thinking that they were to go through a delousing process. Of course, frequently they realized our true intentions and we sometimes had riots and difficulties due to that fact. Very frequently women would hide their children under the clothes but of course when we found them we would send the children in to be exterminated. We were required to carry out these exterminations in secrecy but of course the foul and nauseating stench from the continuous burning of bodies permeated the entire area and all of the people living in the surrounding communities knew that exterminations were going on at Auschwitz.
>>27888 >where are the boddies First, you're mistaking commercial cremation with cremation for purposes of hiding your crimes. Latter is much faster, and you can literally do whatever you want, like cremate three bodies in one oven at once. They also burned bodies in big piles, and then buried the bones. But crematoria was cleaner. About the rest, not every Jew was exterminated in extermination camps. Many were simply shot in mass executions, or hanged, or whatever. Read Einsatzgruppen. No one claims 6 million Jews were gassed and then put into oven. You just heard that from popular talk and now you disprove argument which was never made.
Just look up what Gish Galloping is and you'll never make a moronic post like this again. You'll never wonder why educated, intelligent people tend to ignore /pol/ rather than address their endless torrent of bullshit. Fuck off.
I don't know if it happened or not, and I don't give a shit, but researching this topic is illegal in my country. There is one historian (Faurisson) who studied the question and he has been arrested and sued his whole life.
You see, even if I don't give a shit, I don't understand why studying (or discussing) the topic is illegal in many countries and can get you punished by law.
Are there other historical topics that can lead you to jail or have you fined ?
>>29018 Himmler in 1943 >I am now referring to the evacuation of the Jews, the extermination of the Jewish people. It's one of those things that is easily said: 'The Jewish people are being exterminated', says every party member, 'this is very obvious, it's in our program, elimination of the Jews, extermination, we're doing it, hah, a small matter.' And then they turn up, the upstanding 80 million Germans, and each one has his decent Jew. They say the others are all swines, but this particular one is a splendid Jew. But none has observed it, endured it. Most of you here know what it means when 100 corpses lie next to each other, when there are 500 or when there are 1,000. To have endured this and at the same time to have remained a decent person — with exceptions due to human weaknesses — has made us tough, and is a glorious chapter that has not and will not be spoken of. Because we know how difficult it would be for us if we still had Jews as secret saboteurs, agitators and rabble-rousers in every city, what with the bombings, with the burden and with the hardships of the war. If the Jews were still part of the German nation, we would most likely arrive now at the state we were at in 1916/17.
>The hard decision had to be made that this people should be caused to disappear from earth…Perhaps, at a much later time, we can consider whether we should say something more about this to the German people. I myself believe that it is better for us – us together – to have borne this for our people, that we have taken the responsibility for it on ourselves (the responsibility for an act, not just for an idea), and that we should now take this secret with us to the grave.
/his/ is not /pol/, and Global Rule #3 is in effect. Do not try to treat this board as /pol/ with dates. Blatant racism and trolling will not be tolerated, and a high level of discourse is expected. History can be examined from many different conflicting viewpoints; please treat other posters with respect and address the content of their post instead of attacking their character.
When discussing history, please reference credible source material, and provide as much supporting information as possible in your posts.
So far most posters are completely dropping the ball when it comes to addressing the content of each other's posts and providing credible sources. If you cannot source something you shouldn't post it, and if you can't refute a point you should stay silent instead of insulting the other poster. We expect a higher level of discourse on this board, and if you cannot meet that standard, you should post elsewhere.
>>29120 The BBC's Richard Dimbleby at Belsen >Here over an acre of ground lay dead and dying people. You could not see which was which . . . The living lay with their heads against the corpses and around them moved the awful, ghostly procession of emaciated, aimless people, with nothing to do and with no hope of life, unable to move out of your way, unable to look at the terrible sights around them . . . Babies had been born here, tiny wizened things that could not live . . . A mother, driven mad, screamed at a British sentry to give her milk for her child, and thrust the tiny mite into his arms . . . He opened the bundle and found the baby had been dead for days. This day at Belsen was the most horrible of my life.
>>29106 >educated, intelligent people tend to ignore /pol/ rather than address their endless torrent of bullshit. translations: people who agree with my propaganda are smart people who don't lap it up like good white guilt are dem evil stormfags!!
>>29247 > History can be examined from many different conflicting viewpoints; please treat other posters with respect and address the content of their post instead of attacking their character. leftists confirmed for illiterate
>>29128 Define "credible source material". Because you can probably always question historical sources. History isn't exact science like physics and it has a lot of ideological silver lining and biases.
Good luck sorting all of this out without falling into censorship or bias. I really don't want "/pol/" to be the main counterargument/retort in discussions.
>>29174 Rudolf Hoss, commander of Auschwitz in 1946 >I commanded Auschwitz until 1 December 1943, and estimate that at least 2,500,000 victims were executed and exterminated there by gassing and burning, and at least another half million succumbed to starvation and disease, making a total of about 3,000,000 dead. This figure represents about 70% or 80% of all persons sent to Auschwitz as prisoners, the remainder having been selected and used for slave labor in the concentration camp industries. Included among the executed and burnt were approximately 20,000 Russian prisoners of war (previously screened out of Prisoner of War cages by the Gestapo) who were delivered at Auschwitz in Wehrmacht transports operated by regular Wehrmacht officers and men. The remainder of the total number of victims included about 100,000 German Jews, and great numbers of citizens (mostly Jewish) from Holland, France, Belgium, Poland, Hungary, Czechoslovakia, Greece, or other countries. We executed about 400,000 Hungarian Jews alone at Auschwitz in the summer of 1944
>>29107 Yes it's very fishy that in many countries in Europe you can go to jail for just discussing it. It's part of what fuels the skeptics and gives more credence to the fact that 6 million jews didn't actually die in the Holocaust.
>>29012 >>28218 >>27800 >>27217 18) Of the ones, off the top of my head the biggest historical truth that people had to be imprisoned (and worse!) to enforce was the notion that North Korea invaded the South.
Strangely, despite having slightly more plausibility, I've never met a holocaust denier who was eager to jump on THAT serious historical discussion.
19) No they're not. The Single serious academic holocaust denier was David Irving. I say was because David Irving is no longer a first rate scholar, even with the issue of Holocaust Denial aside.
Second, don't fucking use the term "holocaust revisionist" to refer to Holocaust Deniers. It steals credibility from good scholars, and slanders them. You sir, are no Christopher Browning.
I notice you use the weasel words "advanced degrees from the world's leading universities," avoiding the issue of what those degrees are in, and whether they are relevent. I'm getting tired, and not going to dig it up, but yes, people with advanced degrees have believed in flat earth theory before.
And either way, it's irrelevant. A plainly wrong claim that is held by people with advanced degrees is still plainly wrong. Otherwise you'd have to acknowldge that any claim I make cannot be plainly wrong.
20) This may surprise you, but some historical events are largely forgotten. I'm a specialist in the Nine-Years-War. Not that Nine-Years-War. The less well known Nine-Years-War. You remember that, don't you?
As for the question of why Civil War Historians haven't expressed similar concerns...
HAHAHA, are you not familiar with the huge shitstorm in Civil War journals these days?
21) Once again, making claims without making reference to sources. "Survivors", "Some eyewitnesses" Which eyewitnesses, and where? I've stayed up long enough on this. If there was an interest in legitimate historical inquiry, rather than obfuscation, it wouldn't constantly make me do the work to find what source it's decided to deliberately misrepresent.
>>27660 Shit you are a fucking giant retard. The problem with non airtight doors is the seepage of nerve gas killing everyone else at the camps. Meaning there likely wasn't any zyklon B used on people other than for delousing.
>>29384 Hoss again, shorty before his execution >My conscience compels me to make the following declaration. In the solitude of my prison cell I have come to the bitter recognition that I have sinned gravely against humanity. As Commandant of Auschwitz I was responsible for carrying out part of the cruel plans of the 'Third Reich' for human destruction. In so doing I have inflicted terrible wounds on humanity. I caused unspeakable suffering for the Polish people in particular. I am to pay for this with my life. May the Lord God forgive one day what I have done.
>>29409 >Look Ma, I can image macro too Hoss again, his confession >I declare herewith under oath that in the years 1941 to 1943, during my tenure in office as commandant of Auschwitz Concentration Camp, 2 million Jews were put to death by gassing and a ½ million by other means. >May 14, 1946 [signed] Rudolf Höss
>>29128 This single website contains every single argument made by Holocaust deniers. /pol/tards insist that this is not a credible source, but they have never said why besides "it is biased". If this is regarded as a credible source, it can pretty much shut down all threads about this topic.
So, please based Mod, all I'm asking is for you to answer this; Is this a credible source by YOUR standards? http://www.nizkor.org/
>>29418 >You told me that it is illegal in France to study or discuss the holocaust. I meant it's only legal to discuss it through one "perspective". And you should reread my wiki links, the guy was fined and had probationary sentences for denying holocaust.
That's not fishy at all. In fact, if you think it's fishy you're probably retarded, because the implication there is that you think somehow le spooky holocaust fakers randomly infiltrated the lawmaking process in each of those countries, most of which are irrelevant. Furthermore, the more plausible explanation is that governments simply didn't want to allow the possibility of a spark reigniting support Nazism. If this explanation wasn't the very first one you considered then you need to return to preschool. Your mind is literally broken if you jump over that and conclude the magical Jewish hivemind used their magical powers to create laws.
You're also just flat out ignorant as fuck because holocaust denial isn't unique. Most of those countries have generalized laws that only include holocaust denial as a component of broad categories like genocide denial. Communist crimes are specifically mentioned in literature as illegal to deny. Isn't communism a Jewish conspiracy according to you subhuman failures? Weird.
>>29328 I'm tired of being used in these threads as the example of people stormfaggots can reasonably discuss with for "making a convincing case for his opinions."
You admit yourself that it won't stop the infograph from being posted. It takes two second to spam these things, and it took me hours to point out everything wrong, not to mentions the hours beforehand reading and doing actual research to have the relevant fields of knowledge.
The infograph was deliberately misleading and obfuscating, and contrary to any spirit of historical inquiry.
The people here don't owe you anything. Least of all to jump through hoops to demonstrate to you, specifically, how you are wrong.
Because you don't care that you're wrong. The purpose is not to be right, it's to tarnish, and frustrate and obscure historical truth until it stops being an issue for you at all.
You people are barbarians, who are seeking to plunge us into a new dark age. You don't have a place in this thread, on this board, or in civilized society.
>>29489 >but they have never said why besides "it is biased". because YOU never bother to read their arguments because you are so obsessed with "muh evil white people" >it can pretty much shut down all threads about this topic. another sjw trying to shut down discussion they do not agree with
>>29537 >>29453 Abraham Bomba, German Jew >We had scissors. From them we took bunches of hair. Cut off. Threw on the floor to the side, and about two minute has to be finished. Not even two minute be...because there was a line waiting to come up the next to it. And that's how we worked. Inside it was very painful. Most painful was because some of the barbers, they recognized their dear ones, like wives, mothers, even grandmothers. Can you imagine that you have to cut their hair and not to tell them a word because you were not allowed? If you say a word that they going to...uh...be gassed in five or seven minutes later, there would be a panic over there and they would be killed too. Alice Lok Cahana, Hungarian >Several days later we arrived to Bergen-Belsen. And Bergen-Belsen was hell on earth. Nothing ever in literature could compare to anything what Bergen-Belsen was. When we arrived, the dead were not carried away any more, you stepped over them, you fell over them if you couldn't walk. There were agonizing...people begging for water. They were felling...falling into planks that they were not pulled together in the barracks. They were crying, they were begging. It was, it was hell. It was hell. Day and night. You couldn't escape the crying, you couldn't have escaped the praying, you couldn't escape the [cries of] "Mercy," the, it was a chant, the chant of the dead. It was hell.
Assuming the highly unlikely claim that all holocoast documentation and survivor testimonies are part of a conspiracy holds any truth, it´s kinda hard to imagine the actual children and grandchildren of Nazi leaders, some who actually grew up in houses neighbouring concentration camps, are dragging their families through the mud as part of a fabricated lie
>>29507 That's because jews have been involved in those countries and have high positions I'm power even before the first world war. You really are a brainwashed pea brain aren't you? Don't you question anything?
>>29573 >because YOU never bother to read their arguments because you are so obsessed with "muh evil white people" Have you ever seen me arguing? Do you have any evidence of your claims. I posted that link on a previous thread and all I got was: >it's Nizkor, JIDS used to spam this on /pol/ it is biased. Without any actual source on those claims. Yet, I am expected to back up my claims (which I try to do).
Please mods, you need to do something about this or else you will end up with /pol/2.0
>>29595 Edward R. Murrow, at Buchenwald >I asked to see one of the barracks. It happened to be occupied by Czechoslovaks. When I entered, men crowded around, tried to lift me to their shoulders. They were too weak. Many of them could not get out of bed. I was told that this building had once stabled 80 horses. There were 1,200 men in it, five to a bunk. The stink was beyond all description. >They called the doctor. We inspected his records. There were only names in the little black book, nothing more. Nothing about who these men were, what they had done, or hoped. Behind the names of those who had died, there was a cross. I counted them. They totalled 242. 242 out of 1,200, in one month. >As we walked out into the courtyard, a man fell dead. Two others, they must have been over 60, were crawling toward the latrine. I saw it, but will not describe it.
>>29339 Really, it should be up to anons to determine what is and isn't credible. Present a quality argument backed up with solid evidence and then other posters evaluate the quality of your sources and the overall weight of the points made and posit a riposte. It would be much better for this fledgling community if there was an expectation that baseless opinions would be ignored/refuted and sources would be peer reviewed by anons. It's all about quality posting fostering intelligent discussion.
>>29750 The problem is no matter what, people will just shout "/po/" or "SJW". /pol/ /leftypol/ SJW stormfront Reddit, etc... should be wordfiltered and resulting on a temporary ban from this board. I mean, no matter what side, this board won't survive long if it's just a long ad hominem from retards of all sides.
>>29661 I'm going to bed. Here are like 500 testimonials if you're interested. http://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/media_list.php?MediaType=oh&page=1 Full Testimony of Rudolf Hoss http://law2.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/nuremberg/hoesstest.html Full proceedings of the Nuremberg trials http://avalon.law.yale.edu/subject_menus/imt.asp If you're into less primary sources "Holocaust denial on trial" is a good FAQ resource http://www.hdot.org/ But you're not going to read any of that are you? You don't like being challenged.
>>29829 >This is exactly why all /pol/ posters should be permanently banned on sight. so you want /his/ to be a "safe space" devoid of any "triggering opinions" >>29850 20 million apparently http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/germany/9906771/Nazis-may-have-killed-up-to-20m-claims-shocking-new-Holocaust-study.html http://www.businessinsider.com/shocking-new-holocaust-study-claims-nazis-killed-up-to-20-million-people-2013-3?IR=T http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/has-holocaust-history-just-been-rewritten-astonishing-new-research-shows-nazi-camp-network-targeting-8518407.html
>>29850 Depends if you use the term "Holocaust" to refer to the genocide committed against Jews or Nazi crimes in a more general sense. In the first case it's 6 million, in the second case the figure goes to 17 million
>>29850 How many Jews were murdered in the Holocaust? How do we know? Do we have their names? There is no precise figure for the number of Jews killed in the Holocaust. The figure commonly used is the six million quoted by Adolf Eichmann, a senior SS official. All the serious research confirms that the number of victims was between five and six million. Early calculations range from 5.1 million (Professor Raul Hilberg) to 5.95 million (Jacob Leschinsky). More recent research, by Professor Yisrael Gutman and Dr. Robert Rozett in the Encyclopedia of the Holocaust, estimates the Jewish losses at 5.59–5.86 million, and a study headed by Dr. Wolfgang Benz presents a range from 5.29 million to six million.
The main sources for these statistics are comparisons of prewar censuses with postwar censuses and population estimates. Nazi documentation containing partial data on various deportations and murders is also used. We estimate that Yad Vashem currently has somewhat more than 4.2 million names of victims that are accessible. This figure is based primarily on some two millionand a half Pages of Testimony, which often contain information about more than one Jew who perished in the Holocaust. As of early June 1999, more than 1.6 million Pages of Testimony had been computerized. In addition, we have thousands of documents containing names from the Holocaust era, many of which are those of victims. This body of documentation has yet to be fully researched and added to our computerized database. Eventually we hope, through our computerization project, to provide as much information as possible about each victim.
>>29551 For the record I haven't posted any /pol/ infographs.
My concern comes more like this: >Some people have made a claim >I would like to see the historians tackle that claim, since they are experts in this field.
To simply say 'I refuse to address this claim', is a cop out and it allows falsehoods to fester. I applaud you for tackling the questions on that infograph. I did not post it, but I can imagine a casual observer being convinced by it.
It is good that you took the time to refute each and every point on there, hopefully your correct response can now be used as a 2 second infograph in turn to refute it?
My qualm is that, if there are people making false claims it is simply the job of those in the field to provide the public proepr clarity as to why those claims are false.
His images are labeled jew_degen5.jpg, jew_degen1.jpg, jew_degen2.jpg. His grammatical and communication skills are akin to that of the average 8 year old. If he's not a shill, it's only because he's doing it for free. If you do actually open the images, you'll notice that they aren't even slightly related to history.
By actually opening and reading the nonsense posted by people who are clearly mentally retarded propagandists, you're dignifying them as human beings. They aren't human beings. No one should ever "refute" /pol/.
>>30158 >500 biased eyewitness testimonies >Biased That's retarded, that's like a guy getting mugged, taking the mugger to courts, standing up ans saying "Your Honour, that's the guy who mugged me" and then have the judge say. "Actually your testimony is biased he gets off scot free" >A Testimony by Rudolf Hoss obtained by torture Proofs? >Unfair Nuremberg trials What makes them unfair, if anything only a small portion of the defendants were executed
>>30118 >A. genetic fallacy >B. The allure I guess comes from the fact that we're not allowed to refute it. Then when someone comes along with "facts" that don't seem plausible to the accepted narrative, it is the job for those well versed in the history of it to clear up what's going on.
Conversely we're freely allowed to discuss whether the earth is round or not, so the shock value of contrary ""evidence"" has already been doused with enough factual water.
>>30247 >that's like a guy getting mugged, taking the mugger to courts, standing up ans saying "Your Honour, that's the guy who mugged me" and then have the judge say. "Actually your testimony is biased he gets off scot free" But it is exactly what would happen, and that's why you need proofs to condemn somebody.
>>30283 >I am now referring to the evacuation of the Jews, the extermination of the Jewish people. It's one of those things that is easily said: 'The Jewish people are being exterminated', says every party member, 'this is very obvious, it's in our program, elimination of the Jews, extermination, we're doing it, hah, a small matter.' And then they turn up, the upstanding 80 million Germans, and each one has his decent Jew. They say the others are all swines, but this particular one is a splendid Jew. But none has observed it, endured it. Most of you here know what it means when 100 corpses lie next to each other, when there are 500 or when there are 1,000. To have endured this and at the same time to have remained a decent person — with exceptions due to human weaknesses — has made us tough, and is a glorious chapter that has not and will not be spoken of. Because we know how difficult it would be for us if we still had Jews as secret saboteurs, agitators and rabble-rousers in every city, what with the bombings, with the burden and with the hardships of the war. If the Jews were still part of the German nation, we would most likely arrive now at the state we were at in 1916/17. Here is a FUCKING RECORDING https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Himmler_Posen_Speech_-_Extermination_of_the_Jews_excerpt,_Oct_4,_1943.ogg
>>30362 Because people fucking lie, are partial or just even unconsciously change the truth (or remember poorly).
>>30370 >and the the cops have the weapon used with his prints all over it as well Yeah, that's the big fucking difference. Now, you get it, you can bring all those lampshades, soaps and shrunken heads as proofs of nazi atrocities, like in Nuremberg trials.
>If I can't refute their arguments I'll just shame them out
This post is another example of why actually refuting /pol/ trash is counterproductive. Think about it for a moment.
Let's say he consumed 20 seconds per saved photo, which accounts for the single finger pecking style of typing he used for renaming, as well as cursory glances at the titles or first few words to ensure he saved neo-nazi shit. He then grabs his box of krispy kreme donuts and 2 liter of mountain dew and sits down for an entire day of peddling stormfront bullshit on 4chan, consuming another 20 seconds for each image that he posts on the new board /his/. He then occasionally makes a post pointing out that no one is spending the time to read through his bullshit, research the claims made in it if necessary, and then posting a detailed reply that would satisfy onlookers.
By the time all is said and done, you've spent significantly more time refuting a single infograph in meticulous fashion than the stormfag did posting all his infographs in total.
I really can't make it any more clear why responding to gish gallops is not the way to go about it. They need to be banned... it's as simple as that. Do you argue with obvious marketers? Are you a "triggered SJW" if you prefer to ban people selling shit on your forum instead of just banning them?
>>30419 >ihr.org >Mark Edward Weber (born October 9, 1951) is the director of the Institute for Historical Review, an American Holocaust denial organization based in Newport Beach, California. > Beginning in 1978 Weber became involved with the National Alliance, a far-right white supremacist organization. In 1979 Weber served as the editor of the group's magazine, the National Vanguard. Throughout the 1980s Weber functioned as the treasurer of the National Alliance's Cosmotheist Community Church, a pseudoreligious entity founded by William Luther Pierce. During this period Weber became more heavily involved with the IHR as well as collaborating with Bradley Smith and the Committee for Open Debate on the Holocaust (CODOH). >The Institute for Historical Review (IHR), founded in 1978, is an organization primarily devoted to publishing and promoting pseudo-historical books and essays that deny established facts concerning the Nazi genocide of Jews. It is considered by many scholars as the center of the international Holocaust denial movement. IHR is widely regarded as antisemitic and as having links to neo-Nazi organizations. The Institute published the non-peer-reviewed Journal of Historical Review until 2002, but now disseminates its materials through its website and via email. The Institute is affiliated with the Legion for the Survival of Freedom and Noontide Press. Hahahaha
I'll ask again: would the actual report the International Committee of the Red Cross prepared regarding the Concentration Camps be considered authoritative enough by this thread, to silence some of this argument?
>>30610 >>30538 Jesus I really wonder, do you even know you're lying? Like are you just grabbing all this from a storefront "holocaust denial" page without checking it yourself. Or do you know you're lying? Like are you saying "Yeah, he won't be bothered to check this" I can get away with this bullshit
>>30610 First, the word does appear here is the transcript of the speech : http://www.holocaust-history.org/himmler-poznan/speech-text.shtml
Second, I made a mistake, the biased translation is about ausrottung. Here is a link explaining the biased translation and why this can't be a valid basis to pretend it's a claim of a jewish murdering policy https://holocausthistorychannel.wordpress.com/2015/06/16/a-little-more-on-ausrottung/
>>30806 >Second, I made a mistake, the biased translation is about ausrottung. Here is a link explaining the biased translation and why this can't be a valid basis to pretend it's a claim of a jewish murdering policy Are German to English translators in on the conspiracy? Secondly there are other references to murdering jews throughout the speech, even if that were true. >," every Party member will tell you, "perfectly clear, it's part of our plans, we're eliminating the Jews, exterminating them, ha!, a small matter." >That we do not have. Because at the end of this, we don't want, because we exterminated the bacillus, to become sick and die from the same bacillus.
>>31000 >And why is it that this speech was "discovered" about half a century after it was (allegedly) made? They weren't, they were used as evidence at Nuremberg, there was a later speech discovered in 1970, because they had shitloads of documents and never went through them all.
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