>>28610 Somewhat. I just wish this fucker here hadn't been quite so disgustingly stringent about getting rid of it. It's complete and utter extermination has definitely meant the loss of something in our cultures.
The different and exotic will always appeal to people. It's human nature. This is partly why Christianity caught on so quickly in Europe. It was such a stark contrast to what was already canon that people were genuinely interested in it as a philosophy instead of simply adhering to the tradition of their forefathers.
You are probably interested in polytheism because you grew up in a monotheistic society. The grass is always greener on the other side.
>>29607 Are you the kind of person who can't like a show or movie because you hate the other fans who enjoy it? Do you think the Swastika is racist and anti-Semitic because the Nazis co-opted it?
Lots of dumbfucks wrap themselves in the American flag, that doesn't mean I can't still enjoy it and feel like it is part of my culture as an American. Something can still be part of your culture even though people you don't like also like it.
See, this is what I'm talking about. To put this thread back on topic please explain what traditional mythologies you are talking about.
I think that there is something of a tendency of people to hate the religion they are most familiar with and tolerate those that they are least familiar with. I dislike the Abrahamic religions, but I have no reason to believe that had polytheism survived it would be any better (or worse for that matter)
personally I wish that Buddhism, Taoism, even Hinduism were more widepsread than they are currently
>>29811 Expansion of religion is either by the sword or proselytizing. Neither are exactly inviting, hence why we're more likely to be open to an eastern religion on the other side of the planet or a long dead one, over the one down the street.
This is all out of my ass but I think I remember reading about the Romans being in the process of reforming their religion when some select emperors decided to convert and completely fuck up the project.
Would've been very interesting to see what that religion would look like if it were able to develop as rich a tradition as Christianity has. It's too bad because it killed any sort of variety that you for instance see in Asian religions.
There was no comradery, just political maneuvers. The Middle ages were plagued with endless disputes among the Christian kingdoms. If anything the Catholic Church managed to pull a brilliant political move that installed it as in-effect emperors of the continent.
I honestly think the world is a lot more boring from a monotheistic viewpoint. Back in the day, you could petition to all sorts of gods, but now you just have the one, and he's like a temperamental daddy figure.
That, and from my perspective, I don't think any one being, godly or otherwise, can or should have domain over all existence and eternity. It seems more like something for a pantheon or a parliament of deistic things to deal with.
I kinda wish Gnosticism spread a little more, because it wasn't afraid to call Christianity out on its bullshit.
On of my favorite books is Rise and Fall of the Third Reich. It details the history of individuals, the economic situation in Germany from beginning to end, the social aspects of life in Nazi Germany, and things I never thought would have such a big historic impact.
Anyone know if there's a book of the same style about the Soviet Union?
Also any good book recommendations about the Soviet Union?
>Tondrakians (Armenian: Թոնդրակեաններ) were members of an anti-feudal, heretical Christian sect that flourished in medieval Armenia between the early 9th century and 11th century and centered on the city of Tondrak, north of Lake Van in Western Armenia.
>The founder of the movement was Smbat Zarehavantsi, who advocated the abolishment of the Church along with all of its traditional rites. Tondrakians denied the immortality of the soul, the afterlife, the church and its feudal rights. They supported property rights for peasants, as well as equality between men and women
>The Tondrakian movement broke into three different directions during its last years, the most radical of which began advocating atheism as well as doubt in the afterlife and the immortality of the human soul.
>>32669 >Tenth century Armenian theologian and monk Gregory of Narek wrote a critical summary of Tondrakian doctrines in his Letter to the Abbot of Kchaw Concerning the Refutation of the Accursed Tondrakians. He lists the following among other accusations:
They deny our ordination, which the apostles received from Christ. They deny the Holy Communion as the true body and blood of Christ. They deny our Baptism as being mere bath water. They consider Sunday as on a level with other days. They refuse genuflection. They deny the veneration of the cross. They ordain each other and thus follow self-conferred priesthood. They do not accept marriage as a sacrament. They reject the matagh as being a Jewish practice. They are sexually promiscuous.
>>32736 See, Omniscience just doesn't sound plausible to me, because even the smartest mortal on the earth isn't able to recall everything at a whim. If he were really all-knowing and all-powerful, then for what purpose does he have to manipulate his followers to kill their own children or somesuch?
>>32717 Islam is only a thing because of Christianity. If Christianity wasn't alive and well in Europe in the 600's Mohammad probably wouldn't had gotten around to start Islam as his way of fixing Christianity.
>>34266 You mean play dress-up with edgy neo-pagans? Nope, I don't like this watered-down, likely ahistorical version. I prefer nothing when the second option is this travesty. >>34299 Well, I'm an atheist, so in a way, I am saved from Jesus.
>>34507 What did you mean, then? There are no teachings, no temples, only vague old legends. >>34509 >Not if your culture stems from his worship. Top kek, all the "Christian" traditions we have actually stem from pagan traditions. They couldn't totally eliminate them, so they embraced them.
>>28610 Mostly in the sense that I'm sad so much culture gets lost whenever a people convert from one religion to the next. You see pieces of it, like Christmas trees and Easter eggs and such, but I've always been curious about the pagan traditions of Europe. Of course, this is countered by my distaste for most modern interpretations of paganism; Wicca and the assorted "neopagan" riff-raff irritate me, with all their twee talk of faeries and moon-blessings and so on.
Personally, the idea of a more naturalistic religion/belief system appeals to me. I've visited some standing stones, and they're pretty rad. I like monolithic sites of worship, though.
>>35035 I give offerings to the gods. Apollo is my guardian god. They guide us with an invisible hand. I believe some of the myths but a lot like the god rape and incest I think is just the greeks being creative.
>>35176 If there was an american pantheon i'd worship that. But there isn't, and I love roman/greek history so I went to the Theoi. I don't believe i'm worshiping a dead religion because there are many pagans, norse/asatru, kemetic, druid, roman, whose pantheons are ultimately the same gods. Jupiter is Thor and Thor is Zeus, etc. Maybe it's wrong. Who knows. I do it because it makes me feel comfortable.
>>35268 >If there was an american pantheon i'd worship that. you're just admitting now that the only reason you do it is because of identity politics and a feeling of patriotism how can you feel any connection to a religion if this is your way of thinking?
>>35438 you said you'd worship an american pantheon if it existed which implies that the main reason you'd do it is because you yourself are an american and therefore should worship the gods of your country, ie. patriotism
>>35082 >completely missing the point you're supposed to appease and respect all the major gods homie. and if you're really special, one of them might favor you, but you still gotta do your part for everyone. stuff like this is why i really can't take neopagan types seriously.
>>35583 "the quality of being patriotic; vigorous support for one's country." worshipping something not based on merit but because it corresponds to your current geographical location or citizenship in one nation IS patriotism because you're essentially worshipping your country, not the god or gods you claim to
>implying religion "is" or "isn't" intellectual >implying absolute faith isn't intellectually shaky >not remembering intellectual = person who engages in critical study, thought, and reflection about the reality of society, and proposes solutions for the normative problems of that society >wants people to take these arguments seriously
i'm all for having reasonable discussions, but when people talk shit without evidence to support said shit, we should just ignore them. i mean you can argue anything with cherry picked examples, but how little it really means in the end.
>>35720 >>35768 gdi i meant *aren't. to each their own anon, i'm glad you found your peace though! >tfw not religious but still celebrates roman festivals
>>29354 Monotheism ravaged Europe and the Middle East. The fall of this world's greatest empires is directly related to the spread of Monotheism. It was a religion of slaves until Constantine in Rome. Prove me wrong.
>>36004 only bait here is yours are you honestly going to deny centuries of theological debate and introspection on the nature of God or the reality of the divine just because your deep south pastor touched your willy?
Christianity being the intelectual sucsessor to Helelnic thought means it inherited the philosophy and practices of the Romans/Greek thinkers, then expanded upon them. scoff all you like but modern science and philosophy grew out of the Christian scholastic tradition, until the enlightenment era proddies chose to deny this fact.
>>36339 Rome was in slow decline following Augustus, its peak was the late Republic and Julio-Claudian era, everything after was stagnation. Christianity broke those ties and broke the oppression of the empire allowing new growth to happen and ultimately far greater advancement.
>mfw utter mongs try and pretend as if the Empire wasn't a repressive mess because it was "ebin"
>>36992 Actually the 4th century AD was a more advanced time than the Julio-Claudian dynasty period. And the mid-2nd century under the Five Good Emperors was far better than life under the late Republic which was filled with gang warfare, proscriptions, riots and civil war.
>>37141 it was tranquil because there was peace, but it was far more stagnant. from the Republic and early empire we get the majority of our great Roman literàries, plays, speakers, art, cultural production of all sorts as well as technological/social development.
the Augustine peace saw a far Richer and vibrant Rome than Hadrian did.
>>37258 >from the Republic and early empire we get the majority of our great Roman literàries, plays, speakers, art, cultural production of all sorts as well as technological/social development.
Things from that period are only regarded as great "classics" because people have deemed them so, following Roman thinking that the good old ways were best and so the later period was a time of degeneracy and creative bankruptcy.
Go and read some Ammianus and Claudian then get back to me. None of the people that we have designated the greats were any better than later writers. Plus, a shit load of later stuff just straight up didn't survive.
Monotheism is a natural societal evolution of beliefs. Religion was originally partly about keeping order in society. In tribal life, you have very weak or nonexistent gods, because everyone in the tribe knows each other. If you do bad things, everyone will know you did it and punish you for it.
In city life, this becomes impossible to enforce. It's easy for criminals to stay anonymous overall even if recognized by a few, and you can easily move to a new city. Thus the concept of god evolved to be more singular, more powerful, and more righteous. The social fabric of a society can be better held together if everyone believes in an all powerful God that always knows when you have sinned and will punish you for it. Societies that held this belief could more easily stay together than polytheistic societies.
>>42326 The popular Christian interpretation is that man made his tower to try to reach heaven. But this is not supported by the actual text. In the textual version God is jealous.
Originally all the people were one culture working togeather, so God divided them into nations and invented war to weaken them.
God actually evolves a lot in the bible. Early on he is Man's enemy. To give you an idea the oldest story in the bible is not genesis but Job. And in the earliest versions the devil tormenting Job is not a fallen angel but God's trusted agent.
Catholicism is pretty similar to our old Slavic beliefs: the God is composed of three parts, like our old god Triglav; we celebrate the birth of the son of god on the 25th of December (although originally, it was the son of the main god); we still celebrate the arrival of spring; other gods of our panthenon are now saints.
>>43153 This is true. Also back when they had multiple Gods the gods were not supposed to represent absolute good or evil. They were like other Gods where they represented aspects of nature and were ruled by great passions.
The Jews started turning their religion into Monothestic moral-faggotry after encountering the Zoroastrians. The War God Yawheh slowly started absorbing all the positive traits of other Gods until the other Gods existence was denied. Negative divine traits had to be explained as just punishments or trials by God. Later on the Christians would also emphasis Satan as another source of evil. It's not until we get to the New Testament that he is described in terrifying words like "The God of this World" or "Ruler of all Demons" and he is identified as being the serpent in Eden (with a very loose reading).
>>31345 Catholicism actually took a decline, the pope was sure as hell not seen as big of a figure compared to the Byzantine Emperor for a long time. It was only when the popes started declaring crusades that he started getting powerful, and by that time they were already wrestling with the authority of the Holy Roman Emperor.
Arguably Charlemagne was the one who actually created a cultural identity within Europe.
I feel like polytheism is like giving faces to actually occuring phenomena and explaining the world in that way, thus satisfying human curiosity. Rather than declaring one omnipotent lord who can make anything possible, I think polytheism is better than at least the Abrahamic religions. I'm sure an example of a good monotheistic religion can be found, that is not inherently oppressive as hell, but certainly the European polytheistic religions were much better than what came to us later.
>>44111 The best monotheistic religion was the first, Zoroastrianism because it was highly dualestic. The Abrahamic God cannot reconcile negative or bad traits in the world properly. We live in a world with equal opposites so the idea of the divine world being purely good doesn't reflect reality. The Devil of Zorastrianism takes on the role of all negative traits providing a counter-balance in the universe.
In general though monothesism represents the lowest form of divine structure. It's the least complicated, it's a casual approach to religion: polytheism and pantheism are far more complix. They also have the advantage of making each divine aspect something special, with it's own hidden wisdom. For instance Nature Goddesses are often also death Goddesses. This represents your circle of life and an acceptance that mortality is part of the grand design. For a farming community that has to slaughter it's animals for food by hand, they would be very aware that nature and death are linked.
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