>>34148 Well then, staying out of the war obviously is an imperative, but Italy's position makes it harder and there he will need to curb his irredentism.
But I think finding the Lybian oil fields would had been a huge boon for Italy. IIRC they fored pretty close but were unlucky. Though I guess they would have been forced to take a side in the war if they had found them since oil was such a precious ressource for Germany.
>>34054 Germany might not have lost the war Remember Operation Barbarossa started about 2 months later because ArmIR was late and shit in general Hitler might not have faced general Winter And losing in Russia was Hitler's downfall
Unlike Franco, he had overwhelming support and didn't need a Civil War to get into power. He was respected by Churchill and Hitler both, at least initially, and successes in Albania and Ethiopia really made Italy seem like it was capable of kicking ass.
The same thing that destroyed his armies in 1940 would've made him not very useful as an Ally though, since a march through the Alps into southern Germany could be stopped by a small contingent of Germans. But if Italy was not in the Axis, Yugoslavia probably wouldn't have been invaded, or Greece. If they were, you would have Italian soldiers fighting alongside them, and given that Italy's best troops would not be busy in East Africa, it'd be a tough fight, and if everything else went as it did historically, I think the war could be over a year early.
That type of prestige would probably mean fascism still being credible today. The country'd still probably be a bit backwards, but he was definitely a hero Italy could've used. But he fucked up.
>>34054 Hitler looked down on the Italians. He would most likely have invaded them. Whether the invasion would have bee successful or not is up in the air, especially if the English came to help. I think they would survived the war and continued along similar to Franco Spain.
>>34618 Tripartite Pact was the back of the Axis. Without Italy in it, I'm sure that a lot of the associated states (Hungary, Romania, Yugoslavia, etc) would prefer to try and keep neutral. Besides, a large part of the post-invasion administration were either Italian or Italian puppets.
>>34539 Look starting the operation 2 months before and razing the soviets before winter hit was supposed to be the no. 1 priority Sending volunteers later on to keep the territory under control is different Besides Hitler had almost 4 million soldiers, Italy's support was useless considering how poorly equipped they were >>34561 Not exactly Burn and retreat doesn't work forever Give the germans 2 more months and they could have won
>>34054 if my /gsg/ games are anything to go by. he could have tried to defend the Alpine border and small strip of marshlands towards Yugoslavia. Hitler couldn't possibly hope to fight France, BeNeLux, Italy and UK all at once.
>>34054 Probably not. If Mussolini hadn't allied with Nazi Germany, Hitler would have definitely invaded Italy to cover their southern flank from the Allies. I'm not sure how easily this would have been though for Hitler, seeing as he'd need his army to fight through the Alps; something that would have been of great difficulty. But it doesn't make much logic to see a Mussolini and Hitler fighting each other, being ideologically similar in a war of ideologies. I don't see anything happening other than keeping control of East Africa and North Africa until the 1960's until decolonization occurred. After that, Mussolini would probably continue to be supported by the U.S. against communism until his death, subsequently being replaced with a new constitution and liberal democracy that we see today.
>>34711 But you're forgetting the further in the Germans go, the longer the supply lines get. Keeping conquered land is very difficult and expensive, regardless where it is. Operation Barbarosa was the biggest blunder Hitler made militarily, because there was literally zero way he was taking the Soviet Union.
>>34711 At best they would be fighting another Stalingrad in Moscow when winter finally came. Because the autumn rains will still turn the road into muddy fields and slow their advance and they will still be limited by their logistical train being fucking long and under constant attacks by Soviet partisans AND the Soviet Union will not let its capital fall before giving a hard and long battle.
Saying "2 month earlier they win lol" is ignoring the constraints they had to work with, or that Barbarossa was pretty much a pipe dream despite Stalin being retarded.
>>34860 this. also Moscow was much better defended than Stalingrad and rivers and terrain favoured the defenders unlike Stalingrad where Soviets basically had to attack enemy forces just to enter the city.
ffs Germans couldn't even capture Leningrad which was much closer and it took them months to capture places like Sevastopol despite having number superiority.
The bottom line is, wherever there was a strong and determined defense force Axis war machine faltered
>>34961 >He thought Mussolini was an idiot. Biographies from what time? Hitler and Mussolini used to hate eachother prior to 1936/37 because of the stresa front, his opinion of Mussolini was better after Mussolini signed the pact of steel.
>>35080 Yugoslavia didn't leave the pact, instead Germans declared war because they felt that pro-pact government couldn't be entrusted with keeping its population under control and they'd always risk Allied invasion taking place there
>>34961 Thing is, if Germans are fighting is Moscow when winter is coming then it could end worse for them than it did IRL. I can't see Hitler ordering them to retreat and set up a defensive lines and chances are they will be vulnerable to a Soviet counter offensive, like they were at Stalingrad. I can very well see the Army fighting there being encercled and destroyed. On the upside, diverted Soviet forces could mean that Stalingrad could be won but I don't see that changing the war. The oil fields in the Caucasus are still out of their reach.
IRL Barbarossa went up nearly perfectly for them as it is and they still lost. I don't think two months are going to change that.
>>34054 If the society of nations hadn't penalized him after the ethiopian campaigns he wouldn't have had to align with Hitler and would have probably kept on modernizing the industry and the state. He probably would have lasted till the 50s or even 60s before dying or being taken down. Italy would have developed more or less the same as now economically, but more gradually instead of all in a decade. Probably be better off if Mussolini decided to be an ally and still received the Marshall plan afterwards. If Mussolini tried to keep his distances from Hitler after the penalties, he would have had no resources to develop our industry and military, so Hitler would have just steamrolled him like France at the beginning of the war and the RSI would have happened in 1940.
All trademarks and copyrights on this page are owned by their respective parties. Images uploaded are the responsibility of the Poster. Comments are owned by the Poster.
This is a 4chan archive - all of the content originated from them. If you need IP information for a Poster - you need to contact them. This website shows only archived content.
If a post contains personal/copyrighted/illegal content you can contact me at email@example.com with that post and thread number and it will be removed as soon as possible.