I don't know much about Rhodesia other than it was set up by white Brits, was sort of prosperous for a time, and is now Zimbabwe.
What was society like? What did they trade in, who held it all together, who was famous from there, what did that contribute? What were some of the nastier parts of the country, was it at all fair or equal? Was it libertarian or authoritarian? What cultures were dominant? How did it become Zimbabwe?
>>53294 Apartheid. That's all anyone knows. It had such apartheid that it would make South Africa go "oh my." Of course, they got rid of it in a few years to try and hold onto the blacks, but outside forces refused to give them a chance and invaded Rhodesia to "liberate" the Africans.
Robert Mugabe was a terrorist at the time who made a reputation and so was elected after the disenfranchisement of all whites by gaining a plurality of the vote. And thus Zimbabwe was born.
>>53294 Oh, and just like the United States, they declared independence from Great Britain while still a colony because they hated the interference coming from Attlee's government, specifically a plan to hand over the governance of Rhodesia to the native African rebels. The whites knew things would get bad for them if that happened and tried to cling to power as much as possible. This is in contrast to the Mandate of Paletine or the decolonization of India, where these nations were granted independence from British control by British decisions. Bascially, since they were going to be decolonized against their will, they decided to declare independence instead.
And what follows is the sad, sorry tale of just how Africans go ape.
>>53609 Urban black Africans, at least. Rural ones really hated the whites, especially since they didn't even have the sharecropping system that the US South had and were basically serfs for the great Rhodesian plantations.
Of course now nobody has jobs aside from being gangsters, being political operatives, or being soldiers.
>>53389 >It had such apartheid that it would make South Africa go "oh my." No, Rhodesia's political system was weighted heavily in White's favor, but did not bar blacks from participating in the government.
But in reality would you really want a bunch of uneducated, uncivilized, tribal people with no concept of Western values/democracy to have a majority in the voting system? That's why we have Mugabe.
>>53294 Rhodesia was a British colony whose British-sanctioned independence depended on allowing majority rule They said no and declared independence on their own Ian Smith, PM for Rhodesia's entire 14-year history, is probably the most famous
Society was culturally British. It's why Zimbabwe competes in rugby and cricket today for example. Elizabeth was the queen on paper, but she refused to accept the title
All I know about their economy is that agriculture was a big deal ("breadbasket of Africa"), and historically mining too (Cecil Rhodes)
Rhodesia never got recognized (only had informal relations with apartheid South Africa and Salazar's Portugal) and got sanctioned to hell. Doesn't help the place is landlocked.
I don't know much about how the state collapsed into Zimbabwe, except that there was a brief transition state (Zimbabwe-Rhodesia) that gave blacks rule and more rights
While I'm also ignorant about it, the Rhodesian military and their tactics is the stuff of much fascination I hope someone can drop knowledge on that
>>53806 Rhodesia's military was literally /k/ with a boatload of WWII surplus. A bunch of volunteer hunters, war vets, and gun nuts basically running around the northern jungles to hunt out the socialists and nationalist rebels *two different groups.
There's a reason why Rhodesians Never Die is the /k/ board anthem. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tBVDdr3wqm4
>>53319 Rhodesia actually isn't /pol/ material. Blacks and Whites lived together in Rhodesia in peace. The le blacks were opressed by a white minority is a meme backed by SJWs. to prove how whites are evil, and white supremacists (aka /pol/ and Stormfront) , to prove that segregating "niggers" is making a nation better.
>>54016 Nah, there are loads of zimbos in SA, australia, london - really anywhere that appreciates smart, hard-working, hard-drinking guys with big brass balls. I know a couple of zim pilots out in the middle east at the moment who did a lot of civilian flying in iraq, which should say plenty (although god knows how they keep up the hard-drinking now they're flying for the oil sheikdoms)
>>54756 Not even fiat currency terms. Zimbabwe still has some of the most-productive copper, aluminum, and salt mines in Africa. It's got huge amounts of farmland compared to urban and wild country, and it has a thriving export economy in basic foodstuffs. But all that money only goes to a few dozen people at the top.
>>54909 This is a little /pol/, but I don't believe anyone should be sent to the Hague. It lacks the mandate and authority to punish, and it's not like getting rid of Mugabe will fix Zimbabwe's problems. The entire leadership caste is corrupt.
>>54133 >>54016 >Blatant racism and trolling will not be tolerated, and a high level of discourse is expected. History can be examined from many different conflicting viewpoints; please treat other posters with respect and address the content of their post instead of attacking their character.
>>57841 I'm sure it's anti-idiot. Look at the list of supporters of anti-zionism.
>John Stewart - Kanye West of a Generation >Edward Snowden - Traitor >Jimmy Carter >Noam Chomsky - Communist >Patrice Cullors - "Black" Lives Matter founder >Jeremy Corbyn - Political Suicide Activist >Jon Mcintosh - The guy who writes Anita Sarkeesian's Youtube videos and noted gender traitor
It's a list of people /pol/ loves to mock and hate.
>>58071 I feel hard to believe that with Africa's history and the political climate at the time white folks were going to give black folks even the chance to get any kind of power, i just can't believe it.
>>58118 The entire point of Ian Smith forming Rhodesia was to ease the africans into being a modern democratic nation. While also keeping the fucking communists, warlords, and general anarchy away. All which happened to colonies that just handed everything over at once to the natives.
>>58156 Well, here is the problem; if apartheid was so god awful, which it was, but if it was so much worse than living outside of South Africa why was there so much illegal immigration.
Fact of the matter is apartheid was better than normal African conditions due to the wealth. Are you going to let a bunch of illegal immigrants, or uneducated people able to vote in massive numbers? Anyway, Rhodesia and SA are in no way comparable. 80% of the Rhodesian army was black, if they were being mistreated then they could have easily revolted. >>58164 Kekd
That webm is from Addio Africa. Those aren't Rhodesians or South African government armies. They're (mostly) white mercenaries fighting in the Congo in the 1960s. The mercenary's nationalities aren't specified.
>>58445 I'm serious. I come from such a family that I could maybe buy a reasonably large chunk, reserve size, and colonize it with like 500 people. And then buy up more land and see what happens. ITT we get raided by nignogs and sanctioned for no fucking reason
>>58710 It's a clever form of apartheid in which Palestine is allowed to have a "government" (the Palestinian Authority) in which they're quarantined in a continuously disappearing patch of semi-desert and rubble
I read Martin Loney's 'Rhodesia, White Racism and Imperial Response' recently, the name might put you off but it's a well-written and compiled source of information. It doesn't portray White Rhodesians as tyrannical overlords, but rather traces roots to the Zimbabwe-Rhodesia problem back to Colonial Britain.
Interestingly enough the book was written back in 1974, so I would like to see what Loney's later perspective would be.
>>60381 Also as a side note. Are there any that believed Joshua Nkomo would've made a better leader than Mugabe? Seeing as they were the only choices being endorsed by the West (Britain actually protected Nkomo from Rhodesian Special Force raids on numerous occasions).
>>60008 If you're still around, I'm interested in your reasons for thinking it's right. Both my parents were kicked out and I'm a little salty I never was able to get raised there, but yeah as I said I'm interested in your reasons behind that thought?
>>60500 Same anon here. Mainly because I think it's the only way for a post-colonial state to escape its colonial roots. Whilst many blacks and whites might get along, the difference between the majority and minority is too great to not have extreme social tensions. You can't really address the issues created by colonialism without heavily affecting white people in a negative way. Of course they would be very unhappy about this, the same way black people are unhappy. Basically I think it's impossible to keep both parties happy. USA and Australia pretty much wiped out the native population so that wasn't an issue. I was born and live in South Africa, and it's clear to me that the racial tensions are still huge, and the white elite has just included a few black people into the elite ruling class, who just exploit poor south africans, who are mostly black
>>60998 Rhodesia under white rule -paradise, named the breakbasket of africa. Rhodesia under black rule - zimbabwe, shithole of the world
South africa under white rule - low crime, good service delivery, good healthcare and education even for black south africans. South africa under black rule - top rape/murder stats worldwide, corruption, no service delivery.
More black south africans have been killed in protests since apartheid ended than in all the years under apartheid rule.
>>60381 It's interesting to note a lot of the scholarly criticisms of the Rhodesian regime are usually efforts to compare it to South Africa's apartheid regime. Loney's especially used the wage gap of black africans as compared to white africans as an example of this. And yes, it is true that the Rhodesian government kept white wages and lifestyle at a great benefit (minimum wage being better than Britain and the US, along with grants and cheaper land/housing for white immigrants), the reason was so that the skilled white immigrants could boost the economy, of which they further planned to develop into more industrial and education sectors, to help the majority black population catch up to western standards. Many of the critics like Loney began to realize this long after 80s, when Mugabe was tearing everything apart.
>>61446 It's basically the same situation as Singapore on the outset. Multiculturalism, of the kind where the different 'minorities' literally make up 10s of percentages of the population each, needs very strict rules and very strict rule to keep any kind of social cohesion going.
That's why in Singapore the People's Action Party has such a monopoly on power and why the ethnicities there are split up into basically their own neighbourhoods. It's also not a coincidence that the PAP's party logo is almost exactly that of the British Union of Fascists.
>>61731 While I agree with you, there is one thing that should be remembered, by detractors and the more /pol/-oriented Rhodieboos alike.
>the skilled white immigrants They weren't just white, and even the ones who were weren't necessarily of Anglo-Saxon stock. There were significant Indian and Chinese communities, as well as Jews of all colours. Furthermore, at a time when Australians were referring to Italians and Greeks as wogs and complaining that they didn't fit the White Australia policy, the Greek community in Rhodesia was one of the most robust. They even get a mention in the lyrics of John Edwards' 'Salisbury Town', when listing the drinks troopies can enjoy. I doubt you could get proper Ouzo anywhere outside the Mediterranean in the 60s.
>>61830 Oh definitely, the place was being snapped up by many communities just because it was seen a promising place for development. It's almost typical to note that many American and European industrialist groups were still operating and turning a profit in the region, despite the fact every country bar South Africa and Portugal had officially placed trade sanctions on them.
>>61446 So far from accurate desu. Zim currently isn't that bad apart from currency issues. At least they have racial unity, something barely any countries have these days, regardless of how strong their economies are (USA).
South Africa is really shit now, but we equally shit under apartheid. There was good healthcare and service delivery for whites, and education was a joke, sadly it still is. Not sure how you think everyone having to learn in Afrikaans was good, blacks and english whites struggled hugely to learn
>>61910 That's how sanctions usually work. The most kekworthy aspect though was how Zambia ignored them as well, since thanks to the Federation their economy was at least somewhat still tied to Southern Rhodesia.
>>62043 A lot were the usual soldier of fortune types who knew nothing else but war. The world was full of them from the 50s to the 80s, participating as old school mercenaries in any number of brush fire wars around the world.
Some were more idealistic though. One of the funniest books I've read call 'A Martyr Speaks', is basically a /pol/tard going there to fight after he missed Vietnam, only to be sorely disappointed that it wasn't some white Christian utopia. His only real friend in the region was an Afrikaner in South Africa who was too radical for the Nationalist Party.
>>62043 My great-uncle served for like 2 months with the foreign volunteer battalion, he got in because he had like a years experience from touring in Vietnam with the NZ Army Corps soldiers in the UN Peacekeeping force. He said he mostly did patrols. And the the one time he there was action, his squad got send to a village to check for any guerrillas taking refuge. He caught some kid sneaking off into someone's house, and when he went to go after him he got jumped by some other people, the others heard though and arrested them. He was put in hospital with a broken leg and ribs. When he finally got out he found out one of his cousins died, so he requested leave. He never went back after coming home.
>>62047 Afrikaans is piss easy to learn, I speak it pretty much fluently. It's so similar to Dutch, I have spoken to Dutch people in Europe and had a decent conversation. It's much easier than other South African Languages like Xhosa or Zulu. Really simple grammar and that. Apart from that it is pretty much useless and doesn't sound very nice cause its so guttural
>>62398 I can tell you're American, because the colour of your skin means fuck-all if you're not of the same tribe as your neighbour. There's a reason Yugoslavia collapsed, despite them all being 'white'.
>>62915 >>62455 Ethnicity in Europe is very different to Africa. In Europe the groups are much smaller and have a much longer history, which is why so many European countries dislike others. Many African ethnicities share a common history of oppression, which leads to the idea of Pan Africanism and the struggle of the black man.
>>63259 Shit like that happens when you randomly draw lines and decide which ethnicities live in a country. Ethnic homogeneity is better than racial unity, but practically almost impossible to achieve nowadays. Also you conveniently forget the standard colonial practice of divide and rule, where they would create class differences along ethnic lines, like in Rwanda. The main reasons those countries are shit is because they haven't done nearly enough to overcome being a bitch colonies and exploited, and their economies are still shit. The ethnic differences are not the cause of crime and violence and corruption, it's because they're all poor as fuck or rich and greedy
>>62017 Well if you consider economic ruin, starvation and mass exodus across the border not that bad then i guess it's a fair statement.
Half of zim has already fled across borders to work illegally in south africa and anywhere else they can. Sure education was hard during apartheid but that just made certain people work harder. The black doctors who qualified during that time were brilliant and still are today, unfortunately they are old and close to retiring.
Maybe you should speak to people who actually lived under apartheid, 1 on 1, not in the public sphere. They will tell you that things were actually better, at least they felt safe wherever they were.
>>63358 Well, this goes into the failure of decolonisation. The Europeans, wanting to be done with the whole ordeal just released the states under their control and called them nations. Had they been granted independence along ethnic lines, a lot of strife would've been prevented. Sure they would've been poor, but they would not have internal conflict in the way. Case in point, Botswana.
Of course, espouse any of these views and the feel-good liberals in the West will think you're a Nazi.
>>63361 Realistically not much has changed for white people, they won't complain about life under apartheid but won't agree with it unless they're Afrikaans. I've had enough shit about how bad Apartheid was for blacks shoved down my throat, I don't need to go ask them for a second opinion.
>>63496 I very much agree with you, but sadly I think the Western countries granting independence didn't give a fuck about what happened to the countries, I think they wanted them to remain the natural resource mines for Europe.
It definitely would have solved a lot of issues although there would be a lot more African countries. The size, both population and area, of countries like Nigeria and the Congo are insane, Nigeria should be two or three countries and the Congo should be about 5, with some territory going to bordering countries.
>>63580 >I think they wanted them to remain the natural resource mines for Europe. While this was obviously the case for Francafrique and Belgium (although they failed even at that), I've always gotten a vibe of indifference and embarrassment from British decolonisation.
>>63771 I think it was cause they took such pride in their empire, and rightly so. They were extremely good at the game of colonisation, what they did in India was pretty unreal. Or the Indians are pathetic. But Britain used very different approaches based on where they were colonising. Think it depended on how well a settler population could survive. So in Africa they didn't settle as heavily as in America or Australia
>>53903 >I hate that idea but people keep saying that you have to give "a voice" and "the vote" to everyone, even if they're completely unqualified. The idea behind universal suffrage is that anyone whom a decision will affect should have some say in the decision-making process, and that this is a universal human right. Actual individual qualification to make national decisions is irrelevant; it's about the right of the individual to make their own decisions.
>>72333 One of the risks, I suppose. IMO, universal suffrage is based on the idea that a person cannot be free unless they have some control over the society in which they live. That they will then fuck it up is an acceptable risk in exchange for this freedom. Besides, I believe that mass decision-making is less likely to dramatically fuck up than any single decision-maker, although also less likely to dramatically succeed. Democracy is a system that attempts to achieve perpetual mediocrity.
>>73036 How does discussion about Rhodesia not belong on a history board? The last time I checked that country doesn't even exist anymore, so every discussion about it is history related by definition.
>>73039 Haha, anyway; nice to see another alt right here who knows his positions and readers. It's funny telling leftists that the alt right is a bigger threat to the establishment then they have ever been.
Bro's a jeweller and has this idea that Zimbabwe has these huge vaults full of diamond from their mining days as Rhodesia. According to him they corruoted the diamond market and they just trickle their supply out slowly so that their value is increased. Anyone know if there's any truth to that? I can't decide if it's plausible or tinfoil conspiracy.
>>74515 True but company is called De Beers and they started in south africa. They also invented the diamond engagement ring idea through the most successful ad campaign in history - a diamond is forever.
Millions of stupid fucks around the world are shelling out thousands to purchase a stone with no intrinsic value, no resale value and a totally inflated price tag.
Also, most diamonds are blood diamonds even today.
The thing is, while Rhodesia was only slightly more racist than the US at the time, I don't believe they did enough to integrate blacks into Rhodesian society before it was too late. Of course a lot of this had to do with the prevailing racist attitudes that existed throughout the west anyway, but Ian Smith should have realised that delaying the integration process of blacks would only lead to disaster. You just can't have a country where a substantial majority of the population is subjugated by a tiny minority, especially when you're divided along racial/ethnic lines. It never ever works in the long term. After all, it's when you leave a population uneducated and disenfranchised that they're likely to back any opposition to the establishment, no matter how batshit crazy they are.
>>75114 >Rhodesia was only slightly more racist Do you always pull shit out your ass? Before Rhodesia the blacks HAD NO ORGANIZED GOVERNANCE. "Integration" destroyed rhodesia. >>75400 >Muh stormweenies Into the trash it goes
>>75559 So you don't know shit? My Dad was born in Ireland but that doesn't mean I'm an authority on Irish history. For God's sake man read some history books, journals, watch some documentaries, gather some good sources. Don't rely on your Mum's stories.
>>75682 I have, and you're attempting to compare apples and oranges; "racism" has no context in history, it doesn't fucking matter and it doesn't apply. Rhodesians were in NO way more racist than SA or US. 80% of their military was black, they had black leaders, black police men, people shopped, danced, lived, side by side. Blacks got free health care, housing, water, and electricity.
Will you fuck off? Rhodesia gave some semblance of a proper functioning society to those Africans in Rhodesia(who considered themselves rhodesians) and they viciously defended it from the hoards of uneducated savages from Mozambique.
>>54756 Yeah, but listen, this is Rhodesia, a former Colony IN AFRICA, mind you. Rhodesian blacks in 1960 were arguably better off than American blacks in 1960. If left to their own devices, they would've established full equality between races by the 90's or even before. I say this because blacks and whites lived amongst eachother, whereas in countries like the USA, they are arguably still majorly separated even today.
>>53119 Oh boy here we go, yet another super obvious racebait thread. Why am i replying? I am replying because every /pol/tard here is really uninformed on one critical point. Rhodesia was doomed from the day the British empire started to collapse. There was no "stabbed in the back" the whole concept was totally unsustainable from day one.
The Britsh Empire was falling apart so they offered African nations independence one by one. however they had one simple prerequisite, that the country have black majority rule. Why? Because they feared that the Soviets would stir up revolutions in their ex-colonies if they left them to repressive white-supremacist regimes. This would be a nightmare for NATO if all of Africa joined the Warsaw Pact, therefore they wanted to make sure that nothing would foster Marxist elements. Thus when Ian Smith requested independence it was denied by the Colonial Office. Smith decided to straight up rebel and declare independence anyway. Britain toyed with sending in troops, but they didn't have the means to fight a war with a developed nation in the heart of Africa. Instead they sanctioned the hell out of Southern Rhodesia and ensured they were an international paraiah. As predicted, Marxist elements started springing up. However they did have one ally in Portugal who controlled nearby Mozambique and Angola and were dealing with the exact same thing. Northern Rhodesia (Zambia) had already gone Marxist and Southern Rhodesia was having serious problems with border raiders, therefore when Portuguese Angola and Mozambique collapsed to Marxists Rhodesia was fucked on three fronts. Guys like Mugabe (pbuh) only had to filter between borders to be a never-ending pain. Eventually they just had to throw in the towel and talk with ZANU-PF who were initially reasonable but after a while Mugabe (pbuh) got too bitter and cut all ties with Smith and the whites. bad idea because they had all the wealth which is why Zimbabwe is in a parlous state today.
>>85562 funny enough a lot of white rhodesians have come back to their former farms to advise and help run them, but the senile rat fuck still tries to alienate and kick them out. I hate mugabe, literally and figuratively a total shitter.
>>85612 mugabe good boy but seriously i respect him for putting his life on the line to fight for freedom for his people. jungle guerilla wars aint easy. however yes he has gotten twisted with the white man hate, but hey he must have seen some shit in the jungle when he was fighting. not everyoen can put the past behind them like mandela did. in fact most people cant. if blacks threw you in prison for 30 years and you got out to become president would you shake their hand now that you ahve the power to have them killed?
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