>>57835 The Sahara desert is a great, inhospitable expanse with few oasis’s. To conceive that north Africans were black, when the region was originally colonised by Phoenicians, Syrians, Greeks and Egyptians simply because it happens to be on the same continent as sub-Sahara Africa is ludicrous.
The we wuz kings shit is literally the worst attempt at historical revisionism I've ever heard of.
>>57909 I agree fully with this statement and don't mean to seem like a troll or OP but being Berber does not exclude black ancestry, but rather is the basis of SOME north african Berber communities. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21082907
Yes. All the early major Berber tribes including the Masmuda, Sanhaja, Ketama Zenata and Nafusa are described as dark reddish brown like the “Indi’ or as “blacks” or Ethiopians in early documents. The notion of the early Berbers as being “whites” or Caucasoid is a new and racist one related to the concept of the African “Hamite”. Certainly the original Berber-speakers were never referred to as anything but “black” or something near it until the 12th century and were otherwise considered the color of Abyssinians and other so called “Indi”.
>1st century A.D.– Marcus Valerian Martial was one of the earliest Europeans to use the phrase “woolly hair like a Moor” in one of his Satires, and the phrase was commonly used up until the Middle Ages.
>1st century Silius Italicus also describes the Moors with the term ‘Nigra’ meaning black. In the 3rd century Roman dramatist Platus or Plautus maintained the name Maure was a synonym for “Niger” which was a common term for the word black.
>6th A.D.- Corippus uses the phrase “facies nigroque colorus” meaning faces or appearance of black color to describe the North African Berbers. In his book Johannis, I/ 245.
>6th A.D. – Procopius in his History of the Wars book IV contrasting the Germanic Vandals who had settled in North Africa with the Maures claimed the Vandals were not “black skinned like the Maurusioi” . The tribes he classified as Maurusioi are those now classified as ancient Berbers, the Numidians, Masaesyle, Gaitules, Massyles and Mezikes several other “Berber” tribes then settled between Tunisia and Morocco.
>After the 8th century the term Moor came to be used for the many Arabian clans who had invaded the Mediterranean and Africa because of their complexions which were the same dark brown or near black to absolutely black color of the Berbers.
>>58052 The drying of the Sahara from a savannah to a true desert was much, much earlier, thinking around 10,000 years before present. There are some decent theories to suggest civilisation didn't even exist at this stage until the drying forced a wide range of tribes to cohabit a tiny area in Egypt and the fertile crescent.
North Africa was colonised at least 3000 years later.
>>57835 No, the Moors were Arabs and Berbers from North Africa. The English just usually depicted them as black because they were so far from there. And they are usually cast as black like the Numidians are, so that English and American media can fill their stupid token quotas.
In Spain and Portugal that wasn't the case. And Moro doesn't mean black or have an connotations to black in those languages.
Google the images of Morocco, Libya, Tunisia, and Algeria, the cities the presidents, tell me how many blacks you see?
People need to understand North and Subsaharan Africa are about as similar as West and East Asia.
Pic is the Moorish ambassador to queen Elizabeth who inspired Shakespeare's Othello
>>58287 >and Subsaharan Africa are about as similar as West and East Asia
This is an incorrect assessment, there has been migrations from the forest regions of Africa to further north for over 100,000 years.
The only issue was that you had massive gaps of time when no subpluvial occured but as we have seen genetically over 20K years ago L had a presence in Tunisia http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/09/130911184712.htm >>58342 Stop trolling
Hodges, Tony. Western Sahara: The Roots of a Desert War. Westport, CT: Lawrence Hill, 1983. >A good portion of this book deals with Spain’s political rule and economic involvement in the area.
Mercer, John. Spanish Sahara. London: George Allen and Unwin, 1976. >Deals in part with the Spanish invasion, colonization, and administration of the territory that became known as the Western Sahara in 1976, when Spain withdrew as Morocco (and for a time Mauritania) occupied the phosphate-rich territory.
Watson, William E. Tricolor and Crescent: France and the Islamic World. Westport, CT: Praeger, 2003. >Aside from one introductory chapter focusing on early encounters, this book deals with French imperialism and diplomatic relations in Africa and the Levant during the 19th and 20th centuries. The last chapter covers developments in the early 21st century.
Hoisington, William A., Jr. Lyautey and the French Conquest of Morocco. New York: St. Martin’s, 1995. >A study of the methods of Marshal Louis-Hubert Lyautey in conquest and rule in administering the protectorate.
Robinson, David. Muslim Societies in African History. New York: Cambridge University Press, 2004. >A thematic treatment of Muslim Africa discussing both the Islamization of Africa and the Africanization of Islam, followed by case studies on Ethiopia, Ghana, Morocco, Nigeria, Senegal, the Sudan, and Uganda. http://bookzz.org/book/908046/fcd2bc
>>58639 No. Arab is a cultural group it isn't an ethnicity unless talking about people from Arabia. To think the small band of Arabs wiped out the native peoples of North Africa is retarded. It only worked like that in the Americas because of disease and and steady stream of migration.
That wasn't true of the Arab conquests. It's just that to be Arab all you really need to do is speak Arabic. If you spoke Arabic you were/are an Arab. "Arabs" in Egypt, Tunisia, Lebanon, Sudan and Saudi Arabia don't have all that much in common. The Arabs added about as much to the North African gene pool as did the Germans, Romans and Greeks. Before the Moors were even a thing.
>>58683 The conquered, they didn't kill 50-80% of the population. Nor was North Africa a sparsely populated backwater. Also the archaeology doesn't show a rapid change in skull shape.
People need to understand not all conquest is like that of the Americas or Australia. Black Africans today speak English and French, but its not like the British or French killed all the natives and replaced them, just because they now are Christian and speak the conquerors language.
Nigger that picture doesn't fucking mean anything. I'm not saying your wrong, I'm saying you're retarded if you think anyone can look at some random unlabeled charts and pictures and understand what it means.
>>58889 It's autosomal dna, utilizing all known genetic groups. You can ignore the bottom half of you want, it's only meant to clarify obsolete notions that east Africans are merely Nilo Saharan and Arab by showing that Ethiopic and Ethio-somali are legitimate genetic groups formed in East Africa, same with the basis of modern North Africans with their group.
>>59401 In Spanish and Portuguese it basically just meant Muslim. When the Spanish came to the Philippians they named the Muslims in the South Moro, not because they were black but because they were Muslim.
In English Moor meant black because the English assumed everyone in Africa was black. And because they never had any direct contact with Africa.
>>60850 But that proves my point, north Morocco for example has 20% European DNA And remember that those stats take into account entire countries so for example north Tunisians and Algerians will also have more European ancestry than their southern counterparts
>>60791 I'm not saying he was racist. He liked how the blacks were really hospitable and honest people. But according to him they literally showered themselves with soil whenever the king spoke in royal court or something, which, along with their apparently primitive cuisine, somewhat put him off and made him think they were savages. Nice savages, but still primitive.
I can't remember the details much but he speaks of the pros and cons of the Africans for a short part of his memoirs.
>>58390 While your article does support the migration of Sub-Saharan Africans northward, it doesn't specify in what quantities. North Africans are probably a mix of a multitude of peoples, but would you say they are 'black'?
>>63005 'Real Africans' see race differently than most of us here would.
There are videos of African-American and African-European people going over there, and being asked why their skin is so light in comparison, if it's chocolate or cold weather for example. I imagine they would be pretty against the idea of their ancestors coming from the other side of the continent.
>>63013 >>63071 But does anyone actually say that? The only time I see this kind of discussion on /pol/ or elsewhere it's always afrocentrists claiming north africans were dindus and the "opposition" claiming north africans were (and still are) mediterraneans.
>>63005 >It seems that only African Americans are afrocentrists. It's a mix of American education and general racist treatment. In school, children are basically taught the white man is hitler all the time. I didn't even know Africans had their own slaves until high school outside of school. Granted their practices were different, but I found out at a later age. African masters sold their slaves, something teachers tended to fail to mention.
But not every kid growing up learns this, so their "muh heritage" parents raise them like they're lazy versions of the Black Panther party. Cue someone online saying something racist and they get extra defensive. Ignorance is bliss I guess.
>>63221 So much this. Today's history classes are basically lying by omission. Ask the average young person today about the Arab slave trade, or slavery in general, even shit like the Armenian genocide and they just stare blankly. Lots of people now think whites started slavery, as if it hadn't existed in every civilization ever.
>>63314 The British referred to dark-haired Irishman as "black", and they're a hell of a lot lighter than any Africans today. It's a relative term. No one is literally black, even the darkest negro, it's just a really dark brown. Vikings used to call dark people "blue", as did the Arabs I believe.
>>63777 >I think that's just American history classes bro. Yeah that was my point. American education is really wonky. There is no set standard across the states. Some teachers will just show videos for an hour, some will lecture the entire time, others shove 100 years worth of info on you in a week and expect 5 essays. And with all these styles, the level of information varies all the time.
Doesn't help that there are a lot of teachers who are college students who are deep in debt and teach in poor neighborhoods to pay it off. They're still young and dumb as well.
>>63233 No I start a thread with >we waz kings n sheiit To bait an autistic Canadian into spam posting to death. It's funny as fuck to watch him post decade old information that isn't even fucking relevant since Nubians are not Negroids and only had 1-3 significant rules and we're ultimately short lived.
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