Christianity is a dirty foreign religion with no roots in Europe and that is why it loses its power each day.
The secualrs try to replace it with atheism or feminism or other modern isims but still people are lost.
The right thing to do would be for a person to return to their ancestors pagan roots.
>Replace it with feminist
That makes no sense, feminism isn't a religion, it's a political ideology. That would be like trying to replace democracy with paganism, one thing has nothing to do with the other.
>no roots in Europe
What does this meme even mean? That Jesus was crucified in Jerusalem and Jerusalem is not in Europe? Well no shit, what's you point? It spread to Rome pretty quickly, didn't it? It spread to Ireland by the early 4th century. It is a global religion in its roots. It went in every direction from the start. The fact that is was able to spread so fast, and not so violently like Islam did, is proof of the Gospel. Paul went to Athens and converted Greek philosophers to Christianity through his teachings. Compared to that, European paganism never had a chance. The good news is Christianity is backwards compatible, all the good things from pagan religions can be appropriated, because anything that is good is of God. So you can still read about your pagan gods and be fascinated by Norse mythology and all of that stuff, it's not a sin. But please, stop this edgy pagan crap.
>Giant semite in the sky makes some people out of clay or something and puts them in a garden then gets asshurt at them for eating an apple that gives them knowledge and then goes into a hissy fit and tries to flood the world,tells a dude to kill his son but pussies out and yells "JUST A PRANK BRO", commands some tribes to genocide some other tribes then sends down his jew son to turn into a zombie and absorb the sins of humanity (who is also god but isn't god)
Romans took over Christianity, the Vatican, and present day America, and the teachings of Jesus have been defiled.
It is what He taught not the religion itself, as Jesus also challenged the religious scholars of His time.
The Romans also persecuted Christians too, double edged sword.
If Jesus was in India or Tibet before He shows up in Nazareth, it explains His teaching of Oneness with God, the gospels record His infancy and Him when He is 30ish, before He dies and does not canonize anything else and labels it heretical.
Some hindus believe Jesus was God's avatar, who decends in time of need, hence why Jesus loved God enough to get nailed to a cross. Also, early Gnostic teachings would actually make the Genesis story a whole lot different and explain the imperfections of the material world.
Religion is hijacked in a way that people can't just figure it out right away, it takes a while to debunk. I love Jesus, but dislike the idea that a group is exclusive to holding the key to heaven, even though the hide the keys from everyone so they can rule in power on earth in some way shape and form
> no roots in Europe
It's basically a astroturfed Roman religion with a majority European membership throughout its history. It borrows a lot from previous pagan traditions like Druidism and Germanic religion. The so-called "Asians" in its book are displaced delta Egyptians living within the range of the Greek/Macedonian and Roman empires.
This is the shittiest bait thread I've seen in some time, so have a shitty bait image.
memeing or not? Keep this bullshit on /pol/, please. /his/ is a Christian board.
>paganism approves of homosexuality
>Paganism is feministic
>>The patriarchal Church sought to destroy paganism to break the power of its women.
>Pagans were sexually depraved
>Pagans did practice human sacrifice
>Pagans practiced Pederasty
>Pagans couldn't read or write. They had no real art, music or culture to speak of.
>>Everything you know about Paganism was written in the 11th century by Christians. Do you want to know why? Because they wanted people to act MORE Christian. You know about the "noble savage"? Yes, that's you.
Can this meme finally go away? It's perhaps the most cringeworthy of them all. All those morals you want? Yea, they're from the bible, chief.
>The fact that is was able to spread so fast, and not so violently like Islam did, is proof of the Gospel
Christianity, as with all religions, started in one tiny place, when the rest of the earth was populated by a wildly marvelous diversity of religious beliefs—and yet, curiously enough, the concept of warfare over religious differences was virtually nonexistent. Most people in ancient times believed it was proper to respect the gods of other peoples. This changed on a global scale when Christianity was spread, quite literally, by the sword. Those who attempted to assert their religious differences were harassed, tortured, robbed of their land and belongings, even killed. Before it achieved political power, Christianity was a small sect, a heresy against the Jewish faith, that had to accept equality among all the other religions of the Roman Empire. Yet it was the first religion to openly attack the religions of other people as false (the Jews, at least, were a little more tactful). Needless to say, Christianity only truly flourished when it had the ability to eliminate the competition—when it had the full support of Rome’s Emperors after 313 A.D., and when, in 395 A.D., every religion other than Christianity was actually outlawed. Through force and decree Christianity was immersed in the cultural surroundings of lands near and far, and in an environment where it was widely accepted, if not the only thing accepted, it spread and planted itself among subjugated peoples. As kids grew up taking Christian ideas for granted, they often did not realize that only a few generations ago those ideas were entirely alien.
Look, we can all agree that theories about a magic Jew are unfounded, but this sort of blatant trolling is just sad.
You realize that your ancestors have believed in many different deities since the dawn of time. It's not like Norse paganism was the first European religion. What makes the one they worshipped a thousand years ago better and more European than the ones they worshipped say 5000 years ago?
> Not believing in the Allfather.
People like you are why our germanic nations suffer.
>approval of homosexuality
Good? That seems right to me.
Also good. It would be good if we could go back to passively approving things instead of actively and maliciously supporting them. Same with homosexuality
As long as everyone's safe
Oh no, we need to change something about the exact way things were done. I'd have to guess modern pagans have a better record than Catholic priests.
>couldn't read or write
That's not entirely true, but either way that's cultural and not religious. Plenty of pagans have been able to write and plenty of Christians haven't.
>Needless to say, Christianity only truly flourished when it had the ability to eliminate the competition—when it had the full support of Rome’s Emperors after 313 A.D.
Of course a religion is going to flourish more when it becomes accepted by the empire and it's no longer something only practiced out in the desert or in the catacombs. I don't think the lawful decree diminishes the power of the Gospel when it was in fact the power of the Gospel that led to Constantine embracing Christianity. Christianity was alien to Ethiopia too, that doesn't mean Ethiopia isn't better off for having an Ethiopian Orthodox Church. Bob Marley was Ethiopian Orthodox and he's maybe the most universally loved black guy ever. I think the level of violence by Christians converting European pagans is probably exaggerated or hard to quantify at any rate, especially given how a lot violent European pagans were. I think most of the violence perpetrated by Christians has actually been against other Christians(Catholics vs Protestants), sad but true.
Many cultures were won merely by converting their kings or chieftains, who, in return, required their subjects to adopt the new faith of their ruler. Still others mistook the numerical and technological superiority of their conquerors as evidence that they had the better god. Thus, the spread of Christianity was not due to its truth, God’s grace, or its unique attractiveness to foreign people. Simply imagine two competing religious points of view, one holding the idea that other religions are to be respected and that war is justified only in defense, the other holding that war is justified in converting infidels to the only true faith, and that this faith must by its very calling be spread across the world. Which religion will survive and grow, and which will be stamped out and forgotten? The answer is self-evident—and yet it has nothing to do with which religion is actually true.
Colonization of the world, more often than not by robbery and warfare, spread Christianity into the Americas and other corners of the earth, just as Islam was spread throughout Asia and Africa. It is not a coincidence that the two most widespread religions in the world today are the most warlike and intolerant religions in history. Before the rise of Christianity, religious tolerance, including a large degree of religious freedom, was not only custom but in many ways law under the Roman and Persian empires. They conquered for greed and power, rarely for any declared religious reasons, and actually sought to integrate foreign religions into their civilization, rather than seeking to destroy them. People were generally not killed because they practiced a different religion. Indeed, the Christians were persecuted for denying that the popular gods existed—not for following a different religion. In other words, Christians were persecuted for being intolerant.
Such absolute religious intolerance is an idea that found its earliest expression in the Old Testament, where the Hebrew tribe depicts itself waging a campaign of genocide on the Palestinian peoples to steal their land. They justified this heinous behavior on the grounds that people not chosen by their god were wicked and therefore did not deserve to live or keep their land. In effect, the wholesale slaughter of the Palestinian peoples, eradicating their race with the Jew’s own Final Solution, was the direct result of a policy of religious superiority and divine right. Joshua 6-11 tells the sad tale, and one need only read it and consider the point of view of the Palestinians who were simply defending their wives and children and the homes they had built and the fields they had labored for. The actions of the Hebrews can easily be compared with the American genocide of its native peoples—or even, ironically, the Nazi Holocaust
>Simply imagine two competing religious points of view, one holding the idea that other religions are to be respected and that war is justified only in defense
Yeah, because the pagans of Europe certainly believed that "all religions are to be respected and war is only justified in self defense" when they were burning monasteries down and raiding northern Europe right
yea , yea sure... and ISIS , buddishit , atheism is sooo much better
nice bait, btw
>It spread to Rome pretty quickly, didn't it?
For a reason, the importance of christ (messiah) for the jews was necessary tool for the emperor of rome, the worship or veneration of christ was the power tool an emperor or king of those times needed to establish "divine authority"
it is actually the opposite. The spread of Christianity undermined the "divine authority" of the emperor, because christians didn't recognize his divinity, contrary to the attitude of pagans. Since the authority of the emperor was crucial to social peace, it created a big problem.
What the Roman Empire did, once they realised they couldn't stop the spread of christianity, was try to find legitimacy in it. They basically proposed the idea that their existence as a wide and powerful entity was its destiny to help spread the true religion of Christ. In this way they tried to convince Christians that they had divine legitimacy, and that they should abide to the roman way of life. It didn't quite work though.
Christianity is a dirty foreign religion with no roots in the Americas and that is why it loses its power each day.
The secualrs try to replace it with atheism or feminism or other modern isims but still people are lost.
The right thing to do would be for a person to return to their ancestoral brutal gods.
because we weren't ready, as simple as that. After the Fall from Grace we were too attached to the flesh to understand the divine. For example, would it have made sense if Jesus appeared without the events of the Old Testament having happened first?
If I recall correctly God chose Abraham because of his righteousness. Considering this, it makes a lot of sense that he chose him rather than a chinese intellectual. Hichtens just looks at things under the lenses of materialism and utilitarianism, and expects God to abide to his human philosophy; seems rather illogical to me.
Futhermore, we don't really know when humanity started. There are lots of fully human bodies that date back millions of years and that we can't explain with our current dating of events. It might be that the events described in Genesis happened so long ago that we'll never exactly know how they played out, how much of it is allegorical and how much of it is literal.
Here a "let's get started" video about human antiquity: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DKfGC3P9KoQ
I would like to cite G.K. Chesterton here: "Now if we were to dip below the surface of history, as it is not in the scope of this argument to do, I suspect that we should find several occasions when Christendom was thus to all appearance hollowed out from within by doubt and indifference, so that only the old Christian shell stood as the pagan shell had stood so long. But the difference is that in every such case, the sons were fanatical for the faith where the fathers had been slack about it. This is obvious in the case of the transition from the Renaissance to the CounterReformation. It is obvious in the case of a transition from the eighteenth century to the many Catholic revivals of our own time. But I suspect many other examples which would be worthy of separate studies."
>Futhermore, we don't really know when humanity started. There are lots of fully human bodies that date back millions of years and that we can't explain with our current dating of events
What the fuck are you on about? Civilization started tens of thousands of years ago, humanity started at least hundreds of thousands of years ago. Why'd it take Jews so long to invent their god? Why did they invent so many other gods along with him?
watch the video and you will get my point. Also think about how many supposedly "lost civilizations" are rumoured to have existed throughout the world, and of which we have no physical evidence left. If you don't have your head in the sand you will find out that our past is more misterious than ever.
>Why'd it take Jews so long to invent their god?
nice fallacy, Jews as a kind of people didn't exist 100.000 years ago
So God interacted with humanity for 100,000 years then mysteriously stopped? Huh. How convenient. I'm sure you have tons of evidence to support that claim
Paganism acheived absolutely nothing.
Europe under paganism was a bunch of filthy nomads in raw furs.
Christianity sewed the seeds of civilization, promoting literacy and the retention of knowledge, and from that soil sprouted Rationalism, which made Europe into the great power of the world.
>So God interacted with humanity for 100,000 years then mysteriously stopped?
>"le god lmao XDDD" *tips fedora*
Are you literally retarded or only illiterate? That is not what I said at all.
>Christianity is a dirty foreign religion with no roots in Europe and that is why it loses its power each day.
Christian-descended attitudes are far from losing power in Europe, the discredited theology is neither here nor there.
There are 2 prerequisites to understanding what I said
1) Being able to speak English
2) Having enough background knowledge and IQ to discern the implications of my posts and the various topics/concepts I refer to
Now, if you lack any of these prerequisites, it is useless to further debate about things, because any further reply on my part would include and necessitate of the very two prerequisites that you are unable to grasp, in order to be understood.
you treat Hitchen's words and arguments the same way a religious zealot treats scripture and tries to apply its literal meaning to things and events out of its context.
I have no interest in arguing with someone of such intellectual poverty.
I will answer in a way your fedora-incapsulated nut-sized brain can understand
1. Retarded argument that does not prove anything even if it were true
2. it's not valid at all
lol wut. You just went from butt frustrated to butt fukushima in 12 seconds flat.
Sorry your belief system is tied so closely to your identity. You should probably go to a safe place like r/christianity where you won't have to face such criticisms.
Mate youre on a fucking history board.
Look at a list of empire pre-300ad and theres your list of Pagan empires. Writing, metal work, philosophy, architecture pretty much all of it was originated with pagans.
>says others are mad
It's you who can only use strawman and fedoratippism as a mean of discussion, thus leading me to simply wave goodbye and move on.
>>You should probably go to a safe place like r/christianity
What argument? You refuse to choose one of the two options. Here, let me summarize for you.
>Hitchens criticizes Christianity because it came so late after humans showed up
>I ask you if this criticism is valid
>You deny that god interacted with humanity for the last 100,000 years
>Therefore the criticism is valid
Seriously, if you can't even follow that then religion does more brain damage than I had previously thought.
I already answered all of that in my first post >>74360
if you don't see how that answers your question then you are simply uncapable of reason at a level higher than fanboysm and fedoratoppism.
The criticism isn't valid because it ignores everything we know about God, and everything God told us about our nature. In light of that knowledge, Hitchen's argument itself fall apart.
>it ignores everything we know about God
Hmm... What do we know about god?
>kills for fun
>considers murderers holy
>rape = marriage
>foreskin = gotta go
>society working together is bad
>washing your hands before meals in just useless tradition
>drinking poison won't harm you if you have faith
>calling prophets "baldie" warrants your immediate death, even if you're a child
One God at the beginning. The one god creates many Gods. Sophia creates Yahweh, who creates Earth. Sophia puts the moon in place to hide Earth from the One True God; gnosticism and the writings of Lewis etc. God, with the help of the Holy Spirit discoverers the Earth and seeks to free us, reincarnating in this cesspit first as David and then as Jesus; an incredibly compassionate and loving thing to do. The problem now is that many are still blind to the Teachings and the Word of God, and Yahweh still holds sway over much of the Earth and its peoples. But the barriers are coming down, and the chessgame is coming to an end. There are perhaps a handful of moves left, but inevitable victory is inevitable.
You can't return to your pagan roots since they have been so badly documented and died so long ago that the most people manage is some sort of awkward pseudo-Wiccan LARPing.
Besides, po-mo nihilism is top tier ideology.
>people talk about how unaesthetic christianity is
>pagan religions made little stick figures in the mud sometimes and gathered around rocks occasionally
It'll never cease to amaze me that shit bait OPs can morph into interesting threads.
If the best revenge is to live a good life, then maybe the best revenge for shitty bait is good discussion.
All the festivals and deities of the Ancients are preserved within the noted feasts and ranks of heavenly angels in any case. Celtic Druidism (for example) like most of these early pagan religions were not spiritual in any real sense, they worshipped Nature and the Sun. They were materialists in that sense, but they believed in an afterlife. Death was an important aspect of their religion and that is why they took so readily to Christianity.
Bottomline, if you wish to know the faith of your pagan ancestors and their beliefs then look no further than you local church and the teachings of the Bible.>>64557
>Also think about how many supposedly "lost civilizations" are rumoured to have existed throughout the world, and of which we have no physical evidence left.
Until there is evidence of them they do not exist and they belong to /x/ and not /his/
I was merely implying that the tales of such mythical civilizations are witness to something akin to the fall from grace passed down as common knowledge all around the world. For instance, that is also true of the flood. I am aware it is not properly "history" because we are far from having conclusive evidence of it. My mention of it was related to the stories of the OT.
>ask a question about the behaviour and motivations of God
>Literally a theological question
>give a theological answer
>"hurr durr that's not fair"
>"hurr durr you cannot do that"
kill yourself desu senpai
I'm not anyone in this thread, and i'm not new to 4chan, but I only found out about /his/ yesterday so I have to ask: What's with all this "desu, senpai, senpai" shit. I know what it means but why the fuck is it on a history board? I go on /fit/ /wg/ /out/ /sci/ and I don't hear this stuff. It sounds dumb, but more importantly don't feel like it belongs on this board. So what's it doing here?
You're correct. When we worshipped Wōden and Thunor we were strong warriors. Now we are peace loving, limp wrist, skinny, short, tolerant bois. We need to return to the old way and expel the Christian, Jew, Mohammedan, and all non-pure Aryans from our European homeland.
If a hypothetically extant deity interacted with certain members of a species of hominid at several points over the course of a hundred-thousand year period, without a specified or predictable interval between interactions, it would stand to reason that there would be no cause to declare that this deity had ceased interactions with the hominids with only a 2000-year silence.
Wasn't Stoicism a major influence on European Christianity? Also wasn't the vast majority of Christian philosophy and theology European?
I'm certainly not against neopaganism (though I think at this point, so much has been lost that whatever it turns into wont be much like the paganism of old), but Christianity is at this point pretty extensively European.
In a few centuries someone will make a post about how Islam is foreign to Europe and that they should return to Christianity, and that too will face resistance and be mocked...and rightly so. Change is constant when you look at history.
Well...belief in a religion is usually kinda required. I don't think many Greeks would start believing in a literal Zeus just because their ancestors did. It would all be a farce. A blatant parody of a religion that they know little about and have no hope of ever having it honestly shape their worldview.
>I don't think many Greeks would start believing in a literal Zeus just because their ancestors did
But isn't that how most religious people operate most of the time? They take on their parent's religion and follow it the way their ancestors did.
>read Aristotle and learn about Greek tragedy
>come across a book on Old Norse and read about the "heroic worldview"
>read the Poetic Edda
>find beautiful philosophy which places man before death and emphasizes honor, family, heritage, and a tragic view of life
>also synthesizes a lot of what i liked from Nietzsche and Heidegger's philosophies
>learn that there are people who follow the "old ways" and they call their faith "Asatru"
>think to myself "wow this is really cool, I could see myself following this faith in a philosophical way"
>go online to learn about asatru
>full of fucking retards
>"how do i cast magic spells with the runes???"
>"what sacrifice should i make if i want to thank the moon?"
>"i saw ravens today, WHAT IS ODIN TRYING TO TELL ME?"
>"Can I also pray to Greek gods?"
ᛁ ᚹᚨᛋ ᚨᚲᛏᚢᚨᛚᛚᛇ ᛟᚲ ᚹᛁᚦ ᚢᛋᛁᛜ ᚦᛖ ᛖᛚᛞᛖᚱ ᚨᛋ ᛟᚢᚱ ᛞᛁᚨᛚᛖᚲᛏ ᚠᛟᚱ ᛋᚺᛁᛏ ᛈᛟᛋᛏᛁᚾᛜ, ᚨᚾᛞ ᚢᛋᛁᚾᚷ ᛇᛟᚢᛜᛖᚱ ᚠᛟᚱ ᚲᚨᛋᛏᛁᛜ ᛗᚨᚷᛁᚲ ᚨᚾᛞ ᛁᚾᛏᛖᚾᛏ ᛏᛟᚹᚨᚱᛞᛋ ᚹᛁᚾᛏᛖᚱ-ᚲᚺᚨᚾᛋ ᚠᚨᚹᛟᚢᚱ.
It kinda is and isn't. In a big part of the Muslim religion at the very least, feminism that is going on is the U.S. and Europe is not even a part of their culture at all. We should go back to ancient pagan religions. Some of those were all about worshiping women.
The irony is that the greatest students and scholars of ancient Pagan customs were totally banal Christians. Tolkien came closer to truly crystallizing the pagan moral sensibility at Pelennor Fields with the Rohirrim than that fag Vikernes has come in his entire life of frantic , impotent grasping.
The truth is this: Rushing to a "scene" because you think its sensibilities are cool is a modern mirror of Victorian Dilettantism, the most disgusting attitude imaginable, one absolutely contrary to moral growth and spiritual depth, which are the very point of religious or spiritual investigation, regardless of the truth of the supernatural.. And modern kids, they're a hundred times worse than the Victorians ever were. People pronouncing themselves "Roman Pagans" or some such nonsense when they are neither Roman, nor speak Latin, nor have ever been to Rome, nor have grown up in a culture with pagan sensibilities, nor even understand what those sensibilities are beyond what they have seen in popular media.
You like the Romans as a faction in Total War, so you want to model your religious life after them? What!? Imagine explaining that to a Roman, and how swiftly the back of his hand would find your mouth.
God, I am glad to have been raised Catholic. I cannot imagine what it must be like to have some wishy-washy first church of smileyface bullshit upbringing.
Yhea it's not like a shitload of Ancient European cultures were completely cvcked by Christianity or anything. No pagan religions were ever stamped out and demonized by Christians ever! Neither would one be a heretic for proposing new scientific theory's, never happened.
A man of pride with the Hammer told new God
To build his house on own
And spoke loud of the Gods of their fathers
Not too long time gone
The rumours said the man with a beard like fire
And the Hammer in chain
By men in armour silenced was and by
Their swords was slain
This. So much this. And then:
> realize the nazis were reviving the heathen ideology and rituals.
> although a bit tainted with racism, it was still fucking bad ass.
mfw I could've been following the old ways and visit epic heathen castles if the nazis were less extreme and didn't fuck up.
>Comparing citing the words of a man of logic similar to worshiping a deity.
And though he did know already
Though he turned face towards sky
And whispered silent words forgotten
Spoken only way up high
Now this house of a foreign God does stand
Now must they leave us alone
Still he heard from somewhere in the woods
Old crow of wisdom say
...people of Asa land, it's only just begun..
I'm not sure what you're criticizing the guy for. The guy was into philosophy and read the chief religious text of a faith and found that it meshed with his already existing beliefs. That seems like a pretty sound basis for conversion to me. Would it be different were he into different philosophers and did the same with the bible?
Oh yhea i've listened to theam lol, i prefer less thrashy european metal though.
Have you seen the interview with the lead singer of gorgoroth? guys based.
Oh no, I don't necessarily criticize him, I am talking about the same people he is talking about.
I very much approve of people who, coming form a diverse and well-read background, come to admire and appreciate a spiritual system for its merits. He may be like Tolkien who, though obviously not committing to the belief in Pagan gods, understood the beauty of that pagan perspective. I myself had a similar experience with Crowley when I was younger.
What I disapprove of is a naive fixation with the aesthetics of a religion or spiritual system without any appreciation for its philosophy. I also despise this about people who share my religion superficially but have no appreciation for what it MEANS to be Catholic. But, you know, that's a dead horse.
>He thinks Christianity killed the European warrior spirit
>Not their obsession with the old ways they do not understand nor know
>Not knowing the different interpretations of metaphors
>Not knowing Jesus preached non-violence ways but never to be weak against your enemies
>Love them but never submit to them
"Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword.
Better argument can be made considering lithuania. The only records that we have concerning the christainisation of europe are written by other christians and tend to tell stories like "Saint X went there and performed miracle Y and everyone converted on the spot". Historically speaking this is biased as fuck and provides nothing useful.
The best example we have is in lituania which didnt convert till 600 years after most of the rest of europe. In lithuania you get a bunch of neighbouring christian states (looking at you there sweden and rus) constantly declaring wars and fucking shit up until the king of Lithuania agreed to convert to end the wars. At this point the catholic church happily sent priests in, trashed the pagan holy sites and did some nasty things to the pagan religious leaders.
While this is not necessarily representative of what happened in every place in europe by a long shot, it's probably more accurate than the fairytale of "everyone immediately recognised our superior religion, hear us roar" that was written down by the same authors who felt the need to rewrite a bunch of pagan myths to feature catholic figures.
That said there were other events with other factors such as Odoacer, and the exact circumstances varied from place to place. However the main point is that while the notion that the pagans were always violently coerced is incorrect, the notion that they all joined peacefully is also incorrect.
I say we follow the Aztec gods in the Americas. Had they been left alone for a few hundred years it's likely they would have conquered much of North America. Plus it's cool shit. The aztecs were arguably some of the most thorough when it comes to philosophy.