>>66652 There is a reason the Romans didn't institutionalised the phalanx. When you are not on a battlefield, they sux. When the battlefield is shitty, they sux. When you fall into an ambush, they sux. Any guerilla movement will defeat an entire army of pikeman.
>>67261 Polish hussars used lances much longer than pikes. They are remembered because they won almost every engagement.
The point of longbows was to decimate infantry from a range, and I promise you can't name a single example of infantry alone even reaching a mass of longbowmen without suffering 3 casualties for every bow.
>>67506 >>67552 Worked well on the field. not so much for sieges, so the mongols had experts from lands they conquered build siege weapons. They are credited(?) with inventing biological warfare by flinging plague-ridden corpses from trebuchets into the confines of a walled city.
Another weakness could be the aforementioned longbowmen, whose bows had a far greater range than those fired from horseback.
While we're talking about types of troops, it's worth mentioning the field is more important. The high ground, the weather, a river - those can all be the deciding factor.
>>67672 Remember here. Im talking about a theorical society who respects more their.horses than their slaves. Who trains the man for war from a very young age and thrives when confronted to new challenges ready to die in glory.
Longbowmen are only a problem for some time. long range also mean huge compensation when aiming, easily disturbed if your enemy moves in an unpredicted way. Once close enough, i'd say...4-6 salves MAX. Your archers wont do much damage. Recuved bows have pretty good range too.
Also, if the mongols had srsly attacked europe the only problem they could've had would've been heavy armors. Something i'm fairly sure would've been solved by making heavier arrowhead and more powerful bows. Which just seems like a logucal outcome.
>>67616 I can see dense forests being a problem. But coastline? fields? Even mountains seems to be ok since the mongols are rhe only obe who managed to beat the afgans on their own terrain.
>>67552 The french grand cavalry managed. Same thing but without the big armor, and bows instead of spears and shields.
>>67144 >Read the filename It's a screenshot from a fucking movie about the spanish tercio. Like taking an anime picture, naming it "swiss pikemen" and being surprised nobody talks about swiss pikemen.
>>67506 >Would've workes with any civilisation doing the same thing. Only the mongols, actually, and that was because they a) were willing to culturally appropriate styles of warfare they weren't used to and b) had a great spy network so they knew exactly what to fuck up. Take those away and horse archers are no different from the Tartars, Huns or Xiongnu. The Han and Ming had long since figured out how to wipe the floor with steppe horse archers, and the Romans could do the same with the parthians when led competently.
>>70410 Medieval pike formations, at least with the Swiss and Scots, were aggressive and functioned something like a slower, cheaper heavy cavalry lance charge without horses. But other long spear formations were generally defensive so you're not entirely wrong.
>>70485 >>70465 The Landsknecht used literally the same tactics as the swiss except with more guns, so no. The swiss employed halberdiers as well. The tercio, which are actually in the photo, used even more guns.
>>66588 There are three different zones of warfare - highly contested economic zones, its peripheries, and the rest. What works in one doesn't necessarily work in another because of logistics and geographically situational tactics.
So veteran pike blocks can dominate the Low Countries or Lombardy, but they become less capable when taken to North Africa for example.
>>70939 Like the Americans in Iraq. It's one thing to bowl over the periphery in a momentary show of force. It's another to then try to control that territory outside of a few miles of the outpost using that same force built around battlefield domination.
>>71096 Like I said, logistics doesn't survive too far outside of regions where it specialized. It's not a question of landsknechts armed with utensils, but about lansknechts unable to defend territory beyond a mile or so from their outpost because of the speed of a light horse raider that doesn't have the same issues.
Even if the Ottomans never came into the picture, German Tunis would have turned out like Spanish North Africa - a poor collection of coastal forts no one wanted to for a post.
>>71330 Ah I see, well I suppose they could use halberds for those jobs. Another thing to remember is that the early renaissance or late medieval pikes were only around 10 feet tall and supposedly usable in small scale conflicts too.
>>66588 they're still vulnerable to ranged weapons like bows. crossbows, slings, and javelins pikemen weren't fully armored since it was the transitional period when guns were being integrated into armies, armor wasn't as necessary as it had been they'd also be vulnerable to cavalry archers, and fully armored men in plate could probably break the formation with things like pollaxes and spadones
>>71554 Without guns at play the effectiveness of ranged weapons is determined by the armor the pikemen wear. At Flodden the Scottish nobles formed the front rank(s) which according to eye witnesses resulted in scarcely any deaths due to longbow arrows. The problem was bad terrain and mediocre training which caused the formations to collapse and the Scottish were then beaten in melee combat.
>>66588 If you're talking about Swiss pikemen, then the aura of invincibility around them is more the result of their enemies underestimating them than any particular prowess. If the Germans really wanted Switzerland, they could have taken it.
>>66588 Densely packed formations of spearmen are always vulnerable to range weaponry like bows and catapults, this was common knowledge back then. Also if you hit them behind when you are also fighting them in the front, there's nothing they can really do and inevitably die.
>>74261 >I wish all spaianrds and faggots h who participated in this pike and shot warfare deserve the slowest death and their souls to be wandering around the site of their death for ALL eternity. Still beats serving in a tercio m8.
Slings were some of the first weapons invented. They were extremely effective at plinking people off. The projectiles from them could dent iron, which made slingers extremely strong. Slingers were often mounted on chariots, which allowed them mobility and range. Of course, the chariots were eventually defeated by the Sea People and their spear tactics, because slings are hard to aim when moving, and the only ones with archer-mounted chariots were the Egyptians, IE the only ones to survive Sea People onslaught.
English longbow men were some of the most ridiculously OP medieval-renaissance era units. They would cull regiments down to less than half their original size before they even got close to the opposing army. No amount of armor accurately protects you from getting one-shot by the rain of arrows. Your only hope was to move out of the way, since longbows weren't notoriously fast. That is why mounted units became the answer to the longbow men
Longbow men > Pikemen > mounted units > Longbow men
The Polish Hussars would've throttled the English, had the English not developed muskets by the 1500-1600's. If the Hussars were around in the 1300's, the Poles probably would've pushed everyone's arsehole in in the Balkan and Baltic area. Swords, which were the primary weapons used in the Balkans, are shit weapons when you involve range. Either you get defeated by a slower, more heavily armed swordsman, or you get shot dead because lolnomobility.
Tercio was OP because they had the power of ranged combat, while also having good defenses due to the rest of the Tercio. Had guns not gotten any better, the Tercio would've been the strongest unit ever.
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