>>69863 At some level everything is determined by the laws of physics, but given the practically infinite number of interactions between particles, atoms, molecules, and complex combinations of molecules (read: living things), treating human behavior as free will is the only practical way to understand the nature of existence.
Maybe with a quantum computer you could predict human behavior exactly and demonstrate that there is no such thing as free-will, but until the day comes the question is too hypothetical to be worth worrying about.
>>69863 There is no free will, depending on how you define it.
It's clear that humans have the ability to make choices, as in, a man can make a conscious choice to lift his arm, and it would be his own action.
However, one cannot explain where the ability to actually make that choice comes from, hence there is nothing "free" about it, because we don't even understand the nature of consciousness and it's agency.
Like Arthur Schopenhauer said: "Man can do what he wills, but he cannot will what he wills".
Everything you do is guided by a Higher Self, or soul, whatever you want to call it, it is timeless and is your peak self, with all knowledge from birth to death. In this way, you are predestined because of this guide's influence (aka in heathen antiGod speak "gut instinct", "going with the flow", "luck" whatever)
But.... The guide is pushing you to learn certain lessons. Moral/ethical/sexual things.
If you fail you have to keep trying. If you pass, you get to goof around between classes. Karma, enlightenment.
Bruh you've been smoking, clearly, because you've got it backwards. Abrahamic religions like Islam and Christianity are always the ones stressing infinity when it comes to things like God, how Allah is eternal and formless and perfect and infinite and all that.
Pagan religions have always had a much more confined sense of the world, even the fact that the world will eventually end - hence why so many pagan religions had mythologies wherein all died in some cataclysm and the Earth would be laid to rest or other.
>>70481 >But it also requires that an infinite multitude of possibilities for ones own action must take place, regardless of the path that you perceive.
How so? I think it only requires a recognition that in the sphere of human social organization, we need some kind of system that makes people accountable for their actions, and free will is simply the illusion that we are, as individuals, always responsible for our own actions, for the purposes of a legal system and so on, even though we know that's not completely true.
Ted Bundy murdered several women throughout his life, and for all intents and purposes, he is solely responsible for those actions, and was punished for them. However, given what we now know of how the mind functions(which is very little), how responsible is a person really for being born a psychopath? It's not like it's their fault, in some cosmic sense.
It's not that we don't know where the ability to make choices comes from, it's that we know where it comes from and it's the stimulus-response machine of the brain, something beyond our actual conscious control. Choice is made before we consciously notice that we have made the choice (Libet experiment); there is something inside each of our heads making choices for us and it is simply not the same as the things that we each recognize as our "selves". We own those choices in that we are seen to perform them, they are "our" choices, but we can't say that they are free in any way, rather they are constrained by causal factors. You don't flinch away from a hot stove because you freely willed to, you do it because you are a neurochemical machine which has developed to recoil from extreme heat. And the same principle can be applied to every single thing we do whether we understand WHY we have developed to do X thing in Y situation or not.
>>69863 >How can there be free will and choice when there's causality? Well, there can't be, actually. However, I do believe in Free Will. Newtonian physics doesn't allow for Free Will, but it's also insufficient, in explaining the universe. Quantum Mechanics allows for Free Will, and the existence of the Universe. Read up on it.
>>70604 To better express what I'm describing. Given the Ted Bundy example... Accountable, as he was in this facet of time, in another facet of time he may have a completely different life and pursue completely different actions.
That different (infinite) lines of time exist simultaneously is supported by modern physics. So to give another example, a paradox where you go back in time to kill your parents and therefore kill you to prevent you from killing your parents wouldn't exist because by going back in time to your parents you have immediately created or moved to a new branch in time where you aren't required to be born in the future of the possibilities available in that new time line in order to exist in it.
As someone who's a determinist, you'd do well not to mistake the existence of causality for the absence of free will. Most serious defenders of free will don't believe we operate completely free, but that even under certain duress there is still choice
>>70787 I'm not really well versed in quantum mechanics, but as far as I know, the many-worlds interpretation of it, is simply one among a series of theories about how physics at that microscopic scale functions.
And even if what you say is true, it would still lend no credence to the idea of free will, at least not as I understand it.
>>70745 >this quantum mechanics meme The conclusion of quantum bullshit is that reality only exists in the present conscious observation. Being unable to be predicted does not mean it could have been otherwise.
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