Yax K'uk Mo pretty cool. He started off as a warrior-noble from a foreign city-state (thought originally to be from far-away Teotihuacan but strontium isotope analysis on his tooth pulp seems to indicate he grew up in Tikal which is closer), founded a city-state and a long-lived dynasty. He styled himself after a god that the Aztecs knew as Tlaloc, and wore some sikk looking goggles. Had a pyramid built for himself and was buried under it, and his descendants kept building more and more pyramids over the old ones with a passageway allowing them to visit his tomb and make sacrifices to him (which involved lots of incense and stabbing their dicks with stingray spines).
Also he had jade grills and his wife's skeleton was painted red.
read more https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K'inich_Yax_K'uk'_Mo'
Supposedly mayan upper strata of society were either revered as living saints or at least had mutual no violence agreement. In such a way that, if some domains were warring each other, the leaders of the losing side weren't even touched.
Which of course in many cases led to them organising a rematch asap.
>>71426 Most Mexican historians have theorized that a really turbulent period of war between conflicting noble groups trying to dominate the region, all caused by the fall of Teotihuacan and the loss of their extensive trading networks, which included the Mayan zone obviously, and which provoked a power vacuum that led to the loss of many of the most powerful cities at the time (e.g. Dos Pilas), the fracture of the strict hierarchy system (since many nobles fled and abandoned their domains) and a decline of the Mayan region as a whole. But, as >>71502 pointed out, the mayans didn't really disappear as much as they dispersed and organized in less powerful and less concentrated groups and forms of organization, some of which weren't subdued until the end of the 19th century.
>>71470 This. Archaeology grad student here; I don't study the Maya, but I work with a professor that does. Most of the people studying the Maya are operating from theoretical frameworks that favor environmental causes heavily, so that's why you see so much emphasis on environmental causes. But, it's still somewhat open to debate.
I personally favor a more culture-based view of their "collapse." Basically, cultures in mesoamerica and south america seem to have mostly been driven by cultural cycles of expansion and conservatism. This is partially because their economies were based around intensive horticulture and they weren't really empires the way that western cultures were. Changing attitudes about the elites and how things should be done could just as easily account for the kinds of cycles that happened. In other words, it didn't need to be environmental, it could have just been people deciding that their practices were wasteful and deciding to stop.
When the Aztecs sacrificed people to Huitzilopochtli (the god with war like aspects) the victim would be placed on a sacrificial stone. Then the priest would cut through the abdomen with an obsidian or flint blade. The heart would be torn out still beating and held towards the sky in honor to the Sun-God; the body would be carried away and either cremated or given to the warrior responsible for the capture of the victim. He would either cut the body in pieces and send them to important people as an offering, or use the pieces for ritual cannibalism. The warrior would thus ascend one step in the hierarchy of the Aztec social classes, a system that rewarded successful warriors.
the people skinned for that ritual were dead. It would be almost impossible to pull the complete skin off a living person in that manner.
Also the ritual was for Xipe Totec, who flayed himself to give humans food. The skins the priests wore had a lot of symbolism, they'd wear them until they rotted off; symbolizing renewal by revealing their actual skin underneath and mimicking husk falling from ears of corn. It further symbolized the renewal of the earth's "skin," with vegetation dying in the winter and returning in the spring.
wont post it here cus this is a blue board, but some cartel guys know their history well-enough. Still waiting for the day they start throwing dismembered corpses down the steps of government buildings.
>>72250 I wish I had a time machine just to see these in their full splendor. Tribes that have managed to avoid contact with the modern world seem to just stick to huts and don't try to expand or build an empire. Kinda wish they would just to see if they'd attempt something to this scale.
Contrary to what you may have learned in Mel Gibson movies, the Mayan civilization had collapsed before the Spaniards ever arrived.
There were Mayans still around, of course. Indeed, there are still Mayans alive to this day. But there civilization was gone.
As for the Aztecs. They were a tribute Empire. They raped and pillaged all the neighboring civilized Empires. You can kind of think of them as VIkings or Mongols, except with one big capital they brought all their swag back too. The big reason the Spaniards were so successful in causing their collapse was because they had so many enemies to fight alongside the Spanish.
The Spaniards already treated natives poorly before meeting the Aztecs, but did the encounter and victory lead to increasing cruelty on other tribes, believing that each native was as fucked up as an Aztec?
>>76528 after tenochtitlan was defeated the spaniards and many leaders of the remaining señorios allied (tlaxcala particularly). it was an advantageous move for both, as those nobles got to maintain control of both their lands and their social organization while the spaniards didn't have to reorganize everything from the scratch, which would have been an enormous task considering the limited amount of men, how poorly they knew the territory and the existing settlements, the numerous quantity of existing languages with no available translators, etc. basically a logistic nightmare. the spaniards eventually gained control on those territories but it was the result of several different processes: evangelization, the start of the encomienda system (which allowed new conquistadores to explore and claim lands in exchange of payments to the spanish crown), new forms organization like cabeceras, miscegenation and the loss of power for the nobles and the start of overseas trading between new spain, spain and, eventually, asia.
Couldn't it be argued that the Guatemalan Civil War was by and large a conflict between the west and various Mayan societies? At least the parts of the conflict that took place in the mountains. I don't know as much about the urban theatre of that war.
>>77298 >hundreds of Maya books and manuscripts burned in a great pile to prevent 'idolatry' >burning books >ever Literally the worst thing anyone can ever do. I'm positive somebody cured cancer at a point and we'll never know.
>>74211 Have you seen the places they grew food? It just isn't realistic with so much rocky mountainous terrain. Traveling distances for trade would also involve paths that would not accept wheels readily. Lamas and alpacas do a better job, or you know, straight up carrying things.
>>77844 Love it. I live near the Art Institute of Chicago and my favorite section will always be the native American area. There's a pot decorated with bean soldiers. Little bean people with little spears waging little bean war. It's spectacular.
>>77931 I didn't know that. Very chill setting to grow food. I was more referring to the Mayans and to trade. You're right about wheel barrows being good for construction, but that's not what came to mind when thinking of wheels.
I'm pretty ignorant when it comes to south American culture. That's part of what makes it so interesting. It's a shame some people belittle them as savages and focus on the human sacrifice element. It's like they have forgotten that human sacrifice was one of the major reasons religions started calling for animal sacrifice in Eurasia. Of course much of the history of human sacrifice outside of America was destroyed due to new religions displacing old ones.
It would be so interesting to see how the southern/central Americans would evolve their culture given the same amount of time European and Asian cultures had.
>>77987 >used to go to school where I could get free access to AI >never go because terrible weather/no time I went to the Native American area too, once. Fun time. Though I simply felt weak in the knees when I got to that area with Hindu sculptures. It was like being a kid at a candy store, only I had no one to share my excitement with.
that's probably a Moche vase depicting a theme known as the "revolt of the objects," a sort of anarchic scenario where the sun dies and common household items anthropomorphize and take up arms against humankind.
I read in there was a custom of two warring tribes, where in captured prisoners of the battlefield were kept as guests for something like a year, and treated basically like royalty and allowed to fuck mad bitches and get decorated, but then they would just murder them after whatever time period had elapsed
Aztecs where a mongoloid tier culture, too into war and slavery while the Mayans where more into medicine and astrology, not much of a war civ, thats also why they got rekt even faster than any other prehispanic culture.
>>78360 Holy shit that's amazing. It's similar to Japanese objects coming to life after 100 years to terrorize people but more adorable. Little beans coming to life to attack people is just to cute an idea.
I'm going to visit the museum this weekend and see if you're right.
>>78360 Which is probably related to the myth of the destruction of the wooden-men described in the popol vuh "We were ground upon by you. Every day, every day, in the evening and at dawn, always you did holi, holi, huki, huki on our faces. This was our service for you who were the first people. But this day you shall feel our strength. We shall grind you like maize. We shall grind up your flesh,” said their grinding stones to them. hen spoke also their griddles and their pots to them: “Pain you have caused us. Our mouths and our faces are sooty. You were forever throwing us upon the fire and burning us. Although we felt no pain, you now shall try it. We shall burn you,” said all of their pots. Thus their faces were all crushed
>>71163 Aztecs thought the Spanish were the fabled representatives of Quetzalcoatl, said to return when the Aztecs were ready or some shit like that. Too bad Cortés decided to burn their stuff, leaving us only 3 books I believe
>>81194 Just coincidence or not every Spanish expedition was related to a special religious date and many omen took place shortly before the Cortez arrival, being they great astronomers appeared a completely unexpected comet for example. More precisely 14 pre-hispanic codices are what still left.
>>81370 They did thought the Spanish were Quetzalcoatl's representatives, until they met them at Tenochtitlan.
>>81397 Its funny, because the wooden-people were destroyed because they couldn't remember and thus worship the creator gods, then the gods would make the first four men out of maize and the first four women out of maize and cattatil.
P.D: the wooden men descendants are now spider monkeys
>>81760 They didn't thought they were gods, but representatives. Montezuma's ambassadors noticed that in their first reunion in Veracruz when they offered a headdress to Cortez and incense offerings and he didn't knew what to do with them. Montezuma still invited them to enter in Tenochtitlan because he wanted to know exactly who they were.
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