Let's talk about planes. Talk about cool planes. Talk about your favorite planes. Talk about funny looking planes. Talk about important planes. Talk about pilots. Talk about air force commanders.
Just read this shit, absolutely zero fucks given by this madman
>Marseille demonstrated his lack of respect for the Nazi elite during his visit to Germany in June–August 1942. Marseille was a gifted pianist and was invited to play a piece at the home of Willy Messerschmitt, an industrialist and designer of the Messerschmitt Bf 109 fighter Marseille had achieved so much success in. Guests at the party included Adolf Hitler, party chairman Martin Borman, Hitler's deputy and Commander-in-Chief of the Luftwaffe, Hermann Göring, head of the SS, Heinrich Himmler and Reich Minister of Propaganda Joseph Goebbels. After impressing with a display of piano play for over an hour, including Ludwig van Beethoven's Für Elise, Marseille proceeded to play American Jazz, which was considered degenerate in Nazi ideology. Hitler stood, raised his hand, and said "I think we've heard enough" and left the room. Magda Goebbels found the prank amusing and Artur Axmann recalled how his "blood froze" when he heard this "Ragtime" music being played in front of the Führer.
it might be overpriced as fuck and a perfect example of how the MID is a colossal failure, but show me a pilot of any other plane who would like to square off against it
ehh this might belong more on /k/ but I'll bite.
Anyone got any requests?
There's planethreads all the time on /k/, you'd probably love them.
I've always been fond of biplanes.
The Phantom is still used today. The F-4E is one of the most produced fighters ever. With modern missiles and upgraded radar, it can still be very effective. I feel inclined to note that the F-4E Phantoms all feature internal cannons, something that earlier models infamously lacked.
Revolutionary design but so, so horrible at what it was meant for.
Pic related was arguably the ultimate biplane fighter - effectively an I-153 with a modern two-row radial engine. Fortunately, it never entered production.
This image demonstrates the difference in turning radius between the Phantom and a more modern fighter. As you can plainly see, the F-4 wasn't a very good turner. It was, however, really fast. The Phantom set tons of records for both speed and altitude that didn't get broken until the MiG-25 came into being.
To be fair, the lack of a gun wasn't as big of a deal as they made it out to be.
The Navy never got guns on their Phantoms, but they still managed a superior kill ratio to USAF phantoms in Vietnam.
>M-88 on a chaika airframe
Why doe slavistan
>The Navy never got guns on their Phantoms, but they still managed a superior kill ratio to USAF phantoms in Vietnam.
What is the official Phantom Vs MiG k/d ratio? I've heard that it was ultimately 2.5 to 1. As in, 2.5 dead MiGs for every dead phantom, only counting air-to-air losses.
Yak-3s were great. So good the Luftwaffe ordered pilots not to engage them.
I'll switch over to Phantoms now.
The F-4X was a joint US/Israeli project to create a Mach 3 Phantom for reconnaissance. It featured new intakes and a water injection system (hence the bulges on the fuselage), but it would ultimately be cancelled for a variety of political reasons.
From a quick search:
>USN - 40 kills to 7 losses
>USAF - 107.5 kills, can't find losses
However, the majority of USAF Phantom kills occurred with the infamous AIM-7 Sparrow. The guns on the Phantoms were actually the least useful weapons.
Can someone explain to me how machine guns mounted directly behind the props on a plane never hit the props themselves? I never understood how that works, is it just fine tuned timing?
There's this thing called an interrupter gear.
Pretty much you've got the prop synchronized to hold back the firing pin on the machineguns while the prop is in the line of fire.
>The guns on the Phantoms were actually the least useful weapons.
That should be obvious since they usually didn't have guns at all. It may have been insignificant on a strategic level, but individual pilots definitely got into situations where they wished they had a gun. Now, these situations usually weren't fatal because the Phantom was fast enough that it could escape from an unfavorable situation pretty easily. But there was a least one instance where a phantom completely ran out of missiles and was completely hounded by MiGs all the way home. He had to use his afterburner so much to escape he very nearly didn't have enough gas to get back to the ocean. And he was absolutely terrified of ejecting over land, given how the Vietcong treated POWs.
Interrupter gear. The machine gun's trigger is synced to the plane's engine. The gun will not fire unless the propellor is out of the way. The Interrupter gear is what started fighter planes. Before that, pilots could only take pot shots at each other with rifles, pistols, and shotguns. The interrupter gear turner planes into killing machines.
Even in the variants with guns, the Sparrow did the bulk of the work.
From an engineering standpoint, it's really hard to justify internal guns in fighters these days. It's a ton of extra weight for a negligible benefit in the vast majority of engagements. Hell, that's why the F-35B and -C don't have an internal gun.
>Hey guys I got the best idea!
>Let's use B-52s for CAS!
>From an engineering standpoint, it's really hard to justify internal guns in fighters these days. It's a ton of extra weight for a negligible benefit in the vast majority of engagements.
I pretty much agree with that. It's not like much air-to-air combat really happens nowadays, anyway. The extra fuel that the and B/C models get by sacrificing is worth it because in practice they are going to be used almost exclusively as strike aircraft, with the added bonus that they can launch AMRAAMs if somebody tries to bother them.
>because in practice they are going to be used almost exclusively as strike aircraft
Do you guys thing SDBs will eventually phase out onboard cannons for ground strike aircraft completely?
Such a beautiful plane in my mind. f4f Hellcat, errbody.
That and the newest generation of short-ranged AAMs (AIM-9X, IRIS-T, SRAAM) are literally magic. If you put the newest generation of missiles in a movie or videogame, people would think it's too unbelievable.
what kind of aircraft exactly?
The bear becomes very impressive once you realize it has been around for about 60 years and it still has the power to inspire thoughts of doomsday. The Tu-95 is arguable THE official cold war aircraft. Its propellers are so loud, they can be heard in sonar.
I think the He 162 is very cute, and if they had made it with proper construction it would've been a deadly opponent to fight in the air.
I just love how the Russians use them nowadays.
Shiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiit. I know they liked to push it, but that's just being a dick. How does Japan even threaten them?
Anyway, just looking through pictures of Tu-95 intercepts is like looking through a time capsule of military aviation. From the Delta Dart, all the way to the F-22. That's a big leap.
>Only 29 days later, Marseille was killed in a flying accident, when he was forced to abandon his fighter due to engine failure. After he exited the smoke-filled cockpit, Marseille's chest struck the vertical stabiliser of his aircraft. The blow either killed him instantly or incapacitated him so that he was unable to open his parachute.
>mfw imagining hitting the stabilizer at high speed, surviving, and then falling all the way to the ground
>Soon after, during a cross-country flight, he landed on a quiet stretch of Autobahn (between Magdeburg and Braunschweig) and ran behind a tree to relieve himself. Some farmers came to enquire if he needed assistance, but by the time they arrived Marseille was on his way, and they were blown back by his slipstream. Infuriated, the farmers reported the matter and Marseille was again suspended from flying.
This fucking guy
It's funny isn't it? Iran and the US were once considered allies. The CIA fucked everything up, forever.
Thing is, without the Iran-Iraq War, the Tomcat would have never gotten any actual combat. The war gave the F-14 a chance to slaughter MiGs the way it was made to. The kill counts may be slightly exaggerated, but the Tomcats killed at least 100 planes, mostly fighters, while taking almost no hits themselves. Most Iranian Tomcat losses were do to accidents rather than enemy action. Those planes were good at what they were supposed to do.
>F-35 first flight
>15 December 2006
>Nearly 9 years and not a single one is combat operational
The UK needs to reboot our aero industry, we go from producing revolutionary aircraft like the Harrier to shelling out money for a failed and hopeless project. Fuck I miss the Harrier.
You really need to emphasise the history of planes far more than you are. Airline economics. Strategy and operations. Design bureau politics.
This is just /k/ as it stands, and your contribution to the thread is appallingly weak.
For example, you should read Bugos "Engineering the F-4 Phantom II"
Say /his/, what do you think about asymmetry?
Also, what the fuck was going on at Blohm & Voss during WWII
I agree with this. Without any context or discussion, plane threads amount to "wow" look at the pretty planes! When every aircraft has the potential to be a window into the time and place it was made.
For example, what the fuck was this person thinking? The longer I look, the more horrified I become.
I'm not the guy you originally replied with lad. I don't care about the F-22, my government isn't paying for them, the Royal Navy has a new aircraft carrier coming into service soon and it won't have any aircraft to operate off of it because we were assured the F-35 would be ready for service by now.
American aviation manufacturing has really gone down the shitter since the Cold War ended.
From what I understand, the 141's shape was due, in part, to an effort to counteract the tremendous torque of some engines of the time. Normally they'd be so powerful that they'd actually twist the plane in the direction of the propeller's spin, but the 141 tried to deal with that by making the side counter to the spin heavier.
It apparently flew quite well, after test pilots got over their initial "what the fuck is this" reactions.
war winner or not, I want a merlin-powered elliptic-winged qt gf
>How does Japan even threaten them?
By claiming Russia's only relevant source of income that's supposedly around those islands, how else?
you mean the plane with the sensory and networking capability superior to anything but AWACS? (don't take it literally)
If you fail to see the place JSF is supposed to take, you don't get to judge it.
>The UK needs to reboot our aero industry
this is absolutely spot on though. Either this or cooperate with German and French industries again.
>Say /his/, what do you think about asymmetry?
not for us autists
you two are absolutely right and I'd love to have a serious discussion on a narrow related topic (although I'm more of a rotary man myself), but that doesn't mean a casual "my planefu is better than yours" thread is bad. Not worse than many threads on /his/ so far.
>You're getting 5th Gen V/STOL fighters without having to pay the development costs yourself.
>For some reason, you're complaining about this.
Anyway, the F-35 is less than 25 years old and should not be the subject of discussion here.
>For example, you should read Bugos "Engineering the F-4 Phantom II"
Okay. I'm ordering it now. It's only $11 so I don't see why not.
happens to everyone now and then
>merlin-powered elliptic-winged qt gf
In that case, get a Tempest. Go Hawker or go home.
>You're getting 5th Gen V/STOL fighters without having to pay the development costs yourself.
Shame we're not getting a very good one for our money. But you're right it's too modern to be discussed here.
so what exactly is your beef with Spitfires? Is it the fame? Do you think fame somehow degrades the actual plane?
also Tempests aren't really qt
>you're right it's too modern to be discussed here.
I don't really want to feed the improperly placed discussion, but that comparison is so wrong in its very essence..
>Heinkel He 100 by Hans-Peter Dabrowski
It's worth mentioning that the version I'm talking about also featured a conventional radiator, a key difference between the earlier versions which used complex, vulnerable evaporation cooling system
I just like to bust the Spitfires balls every now and again, mostly because of the fact that it gets put on a pedestal over planes that had more impact on the war.
And the fact everybody forgets the Hurricane and Mosquito really grips my shit. It's like Burma and North Africa, everybody remembers Normandy but not them because people made such a huge deal about it.
this is my favorite plane
it is a good plane
the nazis were going to use it but enough werent made
>In 1902 Pearse built and patented a bicycle with vertical crank gears and self-inflating tyres. He then designed and built a two-cylinder "oil engine"—which he mounted on a tricycle undercarriage surmounted by a linen-covered bamboo wing structure and rudimentary controls. Though it lacked an aerofoil section wing, his flying machine resembled modern aircraft design much more than did the Wright brothers' machine: monoplane rather than biplane; tractor rather than pusher propeller; stabiliser and elevators at the back rather than the front; and ailerons rather than wing-warping for controlling banking. It bore a remarkable resemblance to modern microlight aircraft.
Many people believe that he was the first man to fly a heavier than air aircraft, beating the Wrights by several months.
However, most eye-witness accounts were hazy, and lacking any solid primary evidence for the feat. It is most likely that he flew in 1904, and his flights ended with his plane crashing into a hedge.
Considering he built the whole thing, including the engine in a shed in a remote part of New Zealand is pretty impressive.
I beilieve they wanted to build the G56, but I don't understand why they were so fucking retarded and try to tool up for that when they could a) make the Me 309 work, or b) just retool the old Me 109's for the Fw 190 instead of a new fighter
>not merlin powered
>only semi-elliptical wings
>One of the best fighters of all time
>Most widely produced jet
MiG-15 has the same god-tier status of the AK-47, it should also be in a country's flag imo
>not posting an infinitely better plane made entirely out of wood
It seems like you posted the wrong Mosquito! No worries, many people have been confused by the better wooden plane. Here's the one you meant to post!
That's what happens when a ship building company decides to try their hand at planes.
Favorite pilot is probably Henri Guillaumet
>Guillaumet carried the mail between Argentina and Chile. On Friday 13 June 1930, while crossing the Andes for the 92nd time, he crashed his Potez 25 at Laguna del Diamante in Mendoza, Argentina, because of bad weather. He walked for a week over three mountain passes. Though tempted to give up, he persisted while thinking of his wife, Noëlle, until June 19 at dawn when he was rescued by a 14-year-old boy named Juan García.
Best part is that he already thought he was going to die, he was just trying to get to a location where his body could be found so that his family could be paid the life insurance.