Theodore Roosevelt. His stance in the Mine Workers' Strike masterfully represents everything the government should strive for in its interations: it shouldn't pick a side, and should threaten to punish both sides unless they do what's necessary for the common good of the people. If Teddy had chosen the Corporations OR the workers, he would've destroyed the one at the expense of the other. But he had no obligation to either of them, his only obligation was to the people, and so he protected their interests instead.
Polk expanded America from sea to shining sea. The Mexicans attacked us in Texas north of the Rio Grande, and so the Jacksonian, Polk, wages war against the newly formed Mexican Republic. Zachary Taylor defeated the bloodthirsty general Santa Anna and the US territory was massively expanded. Polk never gets his due, but he was a great president, even if he wasn't the most likeable.
>>76026 Why is it that American conservatives never know what Liberalism is? Anything which isnt conservatism = liberal to you morons. What about Gladstone in England? He was a liberal, and yet his free market policies are clearly more favoured by conservatives. FDR held some socially liberal values, but I would not call him a liberal, more like a social democrat perhaps.
>>77485 Indeed but it is always Americans who fail to define it correctly - British people can distinguish liberalism and socialism, or liberalism and populism. So can French, German or Swedish people regardless of their political stance.
Once again, why is it always Americans who are wrong?
>>78054 The fact that no one ever talks about him yet he was a good president for one. >>77977 If you are too stupid to differentiate between a historical discussion and political debate than you belong on /pol/ or tumblr.
>>78290 - How was FDR and Lincoln shit? Please expand rather than make useless claims. - How was LBJ scum? I presume Vietnam, correct? Was that really his fauklt? - How was Hoover a scapegoat? He was an idiot who did the exact opposite of ehat to do to deal with a recession.
>>77347 I know its early and all, but Bush has to be in the list of worst. Even with terrible wars in the media and economy collapsing, his second term was so full of corruption it was like reading about Grant in a primer.
>>77336 What other examples (of American presidents specifically, but other statesmen are acceptable too) are there of a head-of-state acting so similarly to their mentor or predecessor (Jackson in this case)?
>>77887 because in america liberalism is applied as a blanket statement for the left. liberal vs. conservative has one connotation of change vs. status and people are obviously referring to the interpretation of a liberal as a leftist of the era advocating for change and not an advocate of freedom and equality. couple this with the fact that many people who act in this manner still refer to themselves as liberals and you have a funny little thing happen on account of political titles not requiring you to do anything past invoking their name to claim them as yours. if you must know people usually refer to this kind of stuff as neoliberalism as opposed to classical liberalism when you really press them on it.
>>77347 What about Wilson? I always thought that he was a shit president that only won because the republican vote was split..
>Ran on the slogan of keeping us out of the war knowing we were most likely going to get involved >His United Nations failed, and could be seen as a cause for WW2 >When it failed he became bitter until he died on his reelection trial >Re-segregated the military, and made it harder for blacks to get jobs, by undoing/changing laws that were previously made to help them. >Roosevelt, and him didn't get along at all, and hated each other so if based Teddy didn't like him he must of been a Kek
>>79435 Why do you put Harding under "Scum of the Earth"? He wasn't the best president but he wasn't involved in Teapot-Dome and pretty much stopped the Depression of 1920 (and pushed for racial desegregation and freeing political prisoners).
Honestly I think he's pretty underrated and one of the most fascinating guys to ever serve in the presidency.
>>79542 Because he's part of the reason the Depression lasted so long, not to mention he interned the Japanese and did lots of crooked shit while president that increased the powers of the federal government far beyond what the Founders envisioned.
>>79488 Agreed on Tyler, can't believe I missed that douchebag. Hoover is shit but I wouldn't call him scum, and Harrison wasn't really that bad. >>79555 Actually I think I might have conflated him with Wilson. My bad. >>79542 Japanese internments, massive federal government size increase. Like i said, not all bad though
>>79593 >>79793 You do know many of the high ranking Japanese studied in the USA, right? Pearl Harbor was on Sunday because the Japs knew Americans would either be passed out drunk from Saturday night or going to church. I don't blame him for taking chances. After all, the Europeans were dealing with their own civil war and internal uprisings. It's not too far'fetched for a person at the time to assume the Japanese could create their own "La Resistance" in the USA.
Jackson is an incredibly interesting historical figure, but he was a pretty bad president.
>Directly caused one of the worst economic disasters in american history that was promptly blamed on his successor >Trail of tears >All those people he straight up murdered behind the fucking White House
>>80118 >involvement in WW1 >federal reserve >couldn't be avoided and needed We literally didn't enter until the last year of the war and ended our non-interventionalist foreign policy in favor of a foolish goal of effectively establishing a new world order (not to sound like a conspiracytard or anything).
>>80210 >foolish goal of effectively establishing a new world order That would be Teddy However, both Teddy and Wilson (and the millions of workers and scientist at the time) transformed America into the largest economy (pic related)
Guys, Wilson was LITERALLY the worst thing to happen to America! Pic related!
Fixed that for you. Fuck you, and stop trying to influence our voting age population with your shit european ideals that are always bound for failure.
>>79542 You fucking people talk about him like he can roll on water. Nobody likes talking about the Japanese internments, the bordering-on-tyrannical court packing scheme, the over reliance on flawed Keynesian Economics, and the MASSIVE increase in the federal government, huh?
>>80056 >>getting the US involved in WW1 I agree with everything else you said, but continuing a policy of non involvement with an entire hemisphere would have been impossible at that point and we would have hurt ourselves much more in the long run if we tried to remain neutral.
The reason Wilson is referred to as the first modern president is because he understood this. I don't like it any better than you, but in order for America to thrive there needs to be other countries with people alive in them with which to do business. We simply weren't afforded the option of not participating.
>>80318 >social security >entitlements >high taxes >black violence >immigration whatever you say Jamal
>>80412 >kept America in a depression for over a decade until a war came up >established numerous programs that continue to keep people in the lower class and are bankrupting us today >le trickle down meme term that isn't even recognized as a real thing by any economists Reddit please go
>>80412 >Kept America from truly getting itself out of the Depression, instead keeping it in a state of perpetual "It's getting better, just bear with me here!". He's fucking lucky WWII came around when it did, his charisma couldn't last forever.
>Established flawed Keynesian economics programs that could not have lasted in the long run (and have not lasted. See: Social Security). Pic related, Keynesian economics.gif
>implying the only decent democrat since Wilson wasn't Kennedy
Reddit is a horrible place where you should go back to and never return from.
>>80199 >Shortened the war He extended it by propping up the failing economies of France and Britain. If he stayed out of it completely the war would have ended likely in late 1917 because both sides were grinding each other to death. France was about to lose parts of her army to mutiny, Brits were having serious doubts, Germany was as badly beaten as France, Italy was bored, AH might as well have been a rump state, and the Ottomans might have well have been dead.
>>77336 >The Mexicans attacked us in Texas north of the Rio Grande
He moved US troops into disputed territory which by all rights belonged to Mexico, the Rio Grande boundary of Texas was extorted from Santa Anna in the Treaties of Velasco while he was held as a prisoner of war and was never ratified by the Mexican government. For good reason too, no 'Texans' lived there and the southernmost 'Texan' settlement was Corpus Criste on the Nueces river. The Mexicans reasonably believed they were defending their territory from a belligerent American military intervention (which would not be the first time, Texas Rangers had a habit of riding into Mexican territory and killing civilians for little reason).
The War was thrust upon the country by Polk's unwarranted aggression and thirst for territorial expansion and it would end up being a giant can of worms for the future republic when the newly acquired territory would apply for statehood.
More congressmen voted against the declaration of war against Mexico than any vote for war in US history.
>He extended it by propping up the failing economies of France and Britain
Yes, the US sold to both sides but a blind eye was turned to the fact that the Allies were getting 5 to 6 times as much as the Central Powers. I honestly don't know how much WIlson was involved in this but he did have pro-British sympathies.
>If he stayed out of it completely the war would have ended likely in late 1917
Britain was getting 60% of it's munitions from the US by 1916. The war would've ended much earlier, and it would've been a German victory.
And honestly, I'm not sympathetic towards them or their war aims. I can't believe it would be a good thing to have an autocratic militarist nation in charge of Europe.
Are people seriously considering Kennedy as based? Is this real life?? >Bay of Pigs Completely ruined our relationship or at least a decent chance at one with Cuba >Cuban missile crisis The closest the world had ever gotten to being a nuclear wasteland all because he wasn't pleased about the idea of having enemy nukes within such close range, despite the fact that his administration had forced the Soviets' hands first by putting missiles in Turkey to antagonise the USSR. >Vietnam Getting involved in that was one of the worst military and political decisions the US had made during the 20th century
We can also throw in some more menial shit like the whole cheating on his wife thing, (which doesn't bother me but many others will find it morally destestable), and lest we forget how he had dealings with the Mafia. The man was corrupt. Lastly I'd just like to throw in there the whole 'ich bin ein berliner' bullshit which means I am a donut, if you're going to say something in another language at least don't be so much of a cvck as to not get the right translation of what you are intending to say.
>>74699 J U M B O >"He early became fabled for a Rabelaisian earthiness, urinating in the parking lot of the House Office Building as the urge took him; if a colleague came into a Capitol bathroom as he was finishing at the urinal there, he would sometimes swing around still holding his member, which he liked to call "Jumbo," hooting once, "Have you ever seen anything as big as this?," and shaking it in almost a brandishing manner as he began discoursing about some pending legislation." >"The 36th president of the United States reportedly refused to accept staff arguments that outfitting the shower with the demanded features—including one nozzle aimed "directly at the president's penis"—would require a great deal of plumbing work. "If I can move 10,000 troops in a day, you can certainly fix the bathroom any way I want it," Johnson told the staff, according to the book"
>>81150 Bay of Pigs was an operational failure but obviously the best course of action was to overthrow the communist government. They woulda buddied up with the USSR anyway senpai. And the cuban missile crisis ain't that bad; shit happens, Kennedy properly projects US power and de-escelates. And at that point Vietnam was France's shit-show. The reason East Asia didn't pan out was because we didn't listen to MacArthur
>>80225 >>80259 carter had a ton of groundbreaking ideas, but he couldn't pass shit due to a republican majority congress everyone who says that he was a poor president because he wasn't "strong" enough needs a good long kick in the urethra
>>81357 Your view on the bay of pigs is agreeable, however your perception of the missile crisis seems a bit too retrospective to me, yes nothing happened but at the time it was far morw risky than calculated. It's like stepping on a mousetrap only to find that the spring is broken and it's ineffective. You obviously didn't know it was like that before but having come out of it unscathed doesn't make it any less of a stupid thing to do.
>>78290 >Carter >Underrated Truly based my nigga I can only think of 2 presidents that didnt massively expand their power or abuse their power as presidents The original GW and based Jimmy Carter the peanut farmer
MacArthur was a nut who wanted to throw a nuke at anything he disagreed with. If people had kept listening to him we'd be having this argument via telegraph cable leading between bunkers as we wait for the sun to pierce through the toxic haze for a blessed hour of foraging.
>>78514 Hoover was a scapegoat He believed that the economic crisis was something that should be handled by the economy and he hoped that corporations would take a hit in their profits or maybe have to eat losing money and hire more people and try to get the economy going themselves but they were to greedy to do that So after shit was actively buying the fan he then decided to start public works programs but it was too little too late
>>81552 I'm sure you won't be sayinf the same when your based trump fails to pass legislation allowing him to erect that monstrosity of wall he's cumming buckets over nor when congress refuses to go to war with china because they made fun of trumps hair peice. The American system is broken. Only 2 parties hold legitimate power and no matter who holds the executive branch they'll be Stonewall Jackson'd faster than you can say 'muh constitutionz' when trying to get anything passed
>>81565 Universal Healthcare and other anti-capitalist measures, for starters. I will agree that he gets alot of flak for things that weren't his fault, but he was a naive, if well intentioned, relative outsider to politics when we needed someone who could take charge (Or at least try to work with congress and not try to institute his feel-good liberal programs which effectively antagonized the more conservative elements of congress to the point where they considered him their enemy)
Furthermore, people talk about Carter's presidency like his problems were in motion already, and unavoidable. I propose that if we had a stronger president who could work with congress, those problems would've been tackled, instead of pouted at.
Carter was a decent man, a good Christian man who tried to live by his ideals. But presidential material, he was not. I honestly think Ben Carson is his contemporary analogue
>Both incredibly intelligent in their fields (Carson in brain surgery, Carter in the Nuclear field) >Both very Christian, almost to a fault >Both campaigned as political outsiders (Carson moreso than Carter, but the comparison still stands) >Both probably don't really have what it takes to lead, due to a stubborn pursuance of their own interests and ideologies instead of leading the nation)
>>81712 >Make the wrong choice >Try to solve it after its already too late >Anybodys fault but his own
I won't villify him for making a mistake but you are white washing a little here. If an economy could solve it's own crisis, there likely wouldn't be a crisis to begin with. The shit happens because people will always look to break the system.
But yeah, his voice is so soothing, he could tell me I had cancer and I'd pretend I didn't hear him so I could hear him tell it to me a couple more times.
But that voice can hide some surprising venom, especially when it comes to the politically correct. Shit, that's how he got widely known, his B'ingTFO of Obama at that prayer breakfast or whatever the fuck it was.
>>82295 yup. >"I had real anger issues. I would just fly off the handle and really become quite irrational and try to hurt people with baseball bats, hammers, whatever. In this particular case, I happened to have a large camping knife. And, you know, one of my friends angered me. And I just lunged at his abdomen with the knife. Probably would have seriously injured or killed him, but he happened to have on a large metal belt buckle under his clothing, upon which the blade broke"
>>83101 Fucking Keynes, fucking all the Austrian economists up. Seriously, our models are so much better. I'm at one of the last institutions that teaches it in the US. We pissed off Obangy so much he didn't list us on his list of colleges
>>80873 >>>80873 Nice revisionist history asshole. After Sam Houston kicked Santa Anna's ass in 13 minutes at the battle of San Jacinto, Santa Anna signed the Treaty of Velasco. It declared the Rio Grande as the border. The Mexicans did not respect the peace treaty, so of course the US was going to retaliate. The Mexicans dragged out the war way longer than it needed to be, knowing they never stood a chance.
You can't sign a peace treaty and then say, "Oh, but it didn't count".
>>80873 Also >which by all rights belonged to Mexico So because Hernan Cortes plopped his flag down in 1522, Mexico has rightful claim to the whole North American continent, huh? Get the fuck outta here.
Mexico has just as much right to the land as the US did, and when Antonio Lopez de Santa Anna signed that Peace Treaty with the injured Sam Houston under the mesquite tree with the Texian Army, Mexico forfeited their claim to everything north of the Rio Grande.
>>82800 The ATC Strikebreaking was against the American way. The president shouldn't do things like that. He really didn't do anything to harm the Soviet Union. He didn't really do anything at all, really. Except Iran Contra.
What good did Kennedy do? He was just a great speaker, that's it.
Thanks for mentioning Taft, I forgot to list him. But Teddy didn't want another term anyway, and Taft didn't really want to take office.
>>84059 Santa Anna acted without the consent of his government.
You may not know this, but Mexico had a constitutional government with a legislative branch that held the authority to ratify treaties much like our own because it was modeled after the US's own constitution.
The new Mexican government rightfully protested that the treaty first off was never ratified and secondly was negotiated by a prisoner under duress who (reasonable) had the impression that his life depended on the terms of the 'treaty'.
It would be as if Britain had apprehended James Madison in the War of 1812 and forced him to sign a treaty that granted everything west of the Appalachians back to Britain. Of course Congress as well as the Americans living there for generations would protest.
Again, no "Texans" lived in the territory south of the Neuces. The only people who lived there were Mexican Citizens, so it wasn't as if they were protecting settlers from Mexican rule, it was a blatant land grab from a man held at gunpoint and was backed up with the force of the US army, don't mistake the treaty for having any legal legitimacy. The whigs (Including a young Abraham Lincoln) would protest the conduct of Polk for what they saw as a completely unwarranted act of aggression.
George Washington was the first, you see He once chopped down a cherry tree President number two would be John Adams and then Number three Tom Jefferson stayed up to write The declaration late at night So he and his wife had a great big fight And she made him sleep on the couch all night James Madison never had a son then he fought the War of 1812 James Monroe's colossal nose Was bigger than Pinnochio's John Quincy Adams was number six And it's Andrew Jackson's butt he kicked So Jackson learns to play politics Next time he's the one that the country picks Martin Van Buren number eight For a one-term shot as chief of state William Harrisson, how do you praise That guy was dead in thirty days! John Tyler he liked country folk And after him came President Polk Zachary Taylor liked to smoke His breath killed friends whenever he spoke 1850, really nifty Millard Fillmore's in Young and fierce was Franklin Pierce The man without a chin Follows next a period spannin' Four long years with James Buchanan Then the South start shootin' cannon And we've got a civil war A war! A war down south in Dixie!
>>84372 Up to bat comes old Abe Lincoln There's a guy who's really thinkin' Kept the United States from shrinking Saved the ship of state from sinking Andrew Johnson's next He had some slight defects Congress each Would impeach And so the country now elects Ulysses Simpson Grant Who would scream and rave and rant While drinking whiskey Although risky Cause he'd spill it on his pants It's 1877 and the democrats would gloat But they're all amazed when Rutherford Hayes Wins by just one vote James Garfield, someone really hated Cause he was assasinated Chester Arthur gets instated Four years later he was traded For Grover Cleveland, really fat Elected twice as a democrat Then Benjamin Harrisson after that It's William McKinley up to bat Teddy Roosevelt charged up San Juan Hill And President Taft he got the bill In 1913 Woodrow Wiiilllllllson Takes us into World War One Warren Harding next in line It's Calvin Coolidge he does fine And then in 1929 The market crashes and we find It's Herbert Hoover's big debut He gets the blame and loses to Franklin Roosevelt, President who Helped us win in World War Two Harry Truman, weird little human Serves two terms and when he's done It's Eisenhower who's got the power From '53 to '61 John Kennedy had camelot Then Lyndon Johnson took his spot Richard Nixon he gets caught And Gerald Ford fell down a lot Jimmy Carter liked campaign trips And Ronald Regan's speeches scripts All came from famous movie clips And President Bush said "read my lips"
>>84359 Remind me again how many regime changes Mexico went through before the Mexican American war? The Mexicans suck. Santa Anna was a bloodthirsty killer who held no quarter, le Napoleon of the West amirite guise? Santa Anna killed a surrendering David Crockett!
America took that land and cultivated it for the better. Right of conquest. Polk summoned the spirit of Andrew Jackson and aggressively expanded America, and it was great for America's future prosperity.
>>84605 Those sure are some hot opinions you have.
It was a sectarian war that was deliberated provoked by Polk for the sole purpose of taking clay from another sovereign nation and fulfilling "Manifest Destiny". Thousands of Americans as well as Mexicans and Native Americans would needlessly lose their lives in a totally unnecessary conflict, the nascent Mexican republic would be thrown into the hands of their foreign creditors and wouldn't recover their 1830 levels of GDP until the turn of the 20th century. The additional territory would ultimately aggravate the sectarian differences between free and slave states and lead the country on the path to civil war.
Contrary to what you might think, Polk was not an overwhelming popular executive even with the new territory he added to the US, northern Democrats felt he had ignored their interests in the north east by granting Britain a generous Compromise of the Oregon territory in order to wage his war against Mexico without their interference. The whigs, under Zachary Taylor would win the subsequent election.
Whatever. Polk's not god or anything, but fuck Santa Anna, and Texas is American as fuck. I don't give a shit about some crying Mexicans lost their land. They lost it fair and square as far as I'm concerned.
Yeah, so when Polk got all that land, it was one of the things that set the stage for the Civil War, but that kind of beside the point if we look at the Mexican American war in the contingency of the times.
Polk didn't even seek re-election so it's a moot point, anyway.
Texas, New Mexico, Arizona, California, Colorado are all rightfully American and have been ever seen the Mexican American war.
Build a wall you fucking spic. Go worship your Aztec cannibal Moctezuma.
>>85016 Lt. Col. Ethan Allen Hitchcock would write in his Diary after being sent to the disputed territory by Polk's orders
>"We have not one particle of right to be here. It looks as if the government sent a small force on purpose to bring on a war, so as to have a pretext for taking California and as much of this country as it chooses"
Whig congressman Garrett Davis began the debate on the vote to war by saying
>It is our President who began this war. He has been carrying it on for months.
John Quincy Adams as a New England congressman would say
>It is on Mexican soil that blood has been shed
Luther Severance of Maine praised the Mexicans for their "many resistance" to the US invasion, the should be "honored and applauded".
Abraham Lincoln as a congressmen would denounce the war as
>A war of conquest fought to catch votes
Horace Greeley's New York Tribune had this to say of the war
>Shut your eyes to the whole course of events through the last twelve years and it will become easy to prove that we are a meek, unoffending, ill used people, and that MExico has kicked, cuffed, and grossly imposed upon us. Only assume premises enough as Poke does, and you may prove that it is New Orleans which has been threatened by cannonade instead of Matamoras [sic], and that it is the Mississippi which has been formally blockaded by a stranger fleet and army instead of the Rio Grande.
Source: What Hath God Wrought: The Transformation of America 1815-1848
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