Is someone else here studying/interested in it?
I'm the middle of studying it actually (casually studying it I should add). My main focus at the moment is the Cuban Revolution. I'm reading a book on modern revolutions, and one thing that is sticking out to me is how prevalent communism and socialism is in unifying the revolutionaries, and to be quite honest, I really don't understand what those words mean.
Barely knowing shit about Latin America I'm going to guess the short version is:
>Get mistreated by colonial policy
>Overthrow colonial rule
>Fail to contest economically
>Fall into irrelevance
>Get exploited and manipulated by United States dominance in hemisphere
>Remain irrelevant exploited sphere of influence full of cartels and mestizos
How close am I?
pretty much, but It's way more complicated than that tbqhwu. There are plenty of madmen, bastards and doomed idealists to make things interesting along the way. The chaos that defines Latin America is a fertile breeding ground for eccentrics and bizarre events which blur the line between magical realism and black farce.
Or were you asking about what country my thesis is? Because I am writing about Bolivar. Extremelly saturated subject, sure, but my uni teacher had a PhD about it and I jumped on the chance to get orientation once he offered.
Our current situation is just many circumstances happening in the past and wherther we had Chavez or not it was going to be this way.
americans still want our oil after all these years
>Our current situation is just many circumstances happening in the past and wherther we had Chavez or not it was going to be this way.
Nah mate, if history teaches anything is that shit could always be worse.
>tfw Artigas was backstabbed by the Argentinians and exiled to Paraguay
What it could have been...
call me a deluded commie shithead but Venezuela under Chavez's rule was actually a fucking heaven for the majority of the population, unlike nowadays. CIA is still searching for a way to fuck us over to keep the oil, but the Chinese are not better at all.
Not exactly. They didn't kill indians as they did in Anglo American colonies. Indians basically became slaves in everything but name.
Also you forgot the rampant corruption. At every single level of our governments.
Definitely interested in it and started with Meade's A History of Modern Latin America: 1800 to Present as my first read, which I've only just begun.
Any recommended reads for a person with no prior knowledge? I'm fine with reading dense stuff.
Oh boy. You know a region sucks when even its founding father gives up on it.
Then again, he was a racist white supremacist bastard terrified at the idea that mestizos would gain power, so he might not be the best judge.
Latin America is fucking boring
>Banana republics everywhere
>Right coup d'etats
>Left coup d'etats
>Almost no wars, specially south america
>Political inefficiency and corruption
Chilean here, on a related note, it's funny as fuck how they teach us history about mapuches and spaniards, a lot of people end up thinking spaniards were the good guys and mapuches were mean fuckfaces for not going down without a fight
>Almost no wars
>United South America
This isn't a thing
And I don't see this being a thing in the foreseeable future (around 50 years of so)
>Colombia and Venezuela dislike eachother
>Bolivia and Paraguay are so economically backwards that they would just drag anything they get in down, not to mention that Chile keked Bolivia out of the pacific ocean
>Uruguay is 420 SMOKE WEED ERRYDAY and don't cares about what goes around them
>Argentina got shit up to their necks, they are like a worse 1980 Brazil
>Brazil with its cyclical crisis and infinite politcal corruption and system bureacracy/corruption that will never ever get fixed
Chile is the only country in south america doing alright
Bolivia literally because Indians
Paraguay was nearly a powerhouse until the Paraguayan War Genocide brought upon by the Baring Brothers Bankers, Argentina, Brazil and Uruguay under Venancio Flores and his colorados
i don't know about paraguay but Bolivia is pretty much still indian.
so don't expect much HDI or urbanizations or western culture in it.
Doesn't qualify for shithole though, it's like Mongolia or Kazakhstan
We had some cool natives like the 1.80cm tall Selk'Nam and the beasts that were the Querandi.
Unfortunately we sort of... uh, put them to sleep. And very little of their culture and mythology remains. Ethnically they might as well be extinct.
>be liberated by a bunch of masons led by a nutcase
>have a small economic bubble when the yurops are busy killing each other
And in my countries case
>accidentally all our natives
I'm interested in the colonization of Mesoamerica, I think what interests me the most is how both conquistadors and natives perceived one another over the course of it, starting with the very first contact.
I'm also interested in history of Chile.
I'd be very thankful if /his/ could recommend any good books on those topics I mentioned above.
>how both conquistadors and natives perceived one another
i don't know any book names bro but in reality the indian "elites" sold the rest out.
many chiefs and kings allied with the spaniards and fought other tribes.
It was so popular in the new granada territory that spaniards almost never fought. it was the indians doing all the work
>Can't even defend your own territory lmao
In 'Uruguay's defense (it was called the Banda Oriental then and was only part of Artigas federation) we were fighting a two front war, on the one side against Buenos Aires, and THEN you faggots HAD to invade our fucking CLAY
>new Constitution just because Pinochet did it
>garbage reforms and shit reforms
>protests every week
Chile is a good country just because our neighbors are worse, for now
I didn't mean the conflicts per se or rather, not just conflicts. I am interested in the first impressions they've had and what both sides felt when they've encountered those strange civilizations. I'm not sure about native sources, but I'd definitely like to read a history book sourced by journal of someone who has experienced it, if one was even made.
When you get Argentinian, Brazilian and Uruguayan folk talking history its obviously going to lead to banter
Here we consider it a very close tie and a shameful one because Posomby completely disregarded our independence struggle and made us a rump state instead of joining us with Argentina or some shit like that.
Although, I suppose we should thank him? Cos Argentina is kinda shit?
idk; if Macri wins this next 22, I might regret the independence part
Shut up. To talk about history you have to talk about race and geography. If you want to discuss the history of a region with such a rich diversity as South America, even more, Latin America, you have to talk about race.
Wait for tomorrow when the Balkan countries wake up
Matthew Restall - Seven Myths of the Spanish Conquest
Inga Clendinnen - Ambivalent Conquests: Maya and the Spaniard in Yucatan, 1517-1520
Miguel Leon-Portilla - The Broken Spears: The Aztec Account of the Conquest of Mexico
plus the accounts of Bernal Diaz, Bernardino de Sahagun. Eduardo Galeano's Genesis is a compilation of anecdotes from the conquest, it's entertaining but not authoritative history.
Because everyone wants to be a special little democracy.
The only Reason Brazil stuck together was because His Imperial Majesty Dom Pedro I fought tooth and nail against separatists bastards.
You have to realize that the Independence Wars began with at least 2 major uprisings
When the moment came that Bolivar and San Martin met somewhere I forgot near Perú, they couldn't agree with each other, and everything went downhill from there
And all Slavs can pretty much understand each other, so what. Look at any country, you'll see differences in cuisines, dialects or even cultures between regions in even the smallest of them.
>We had Chavez or not
Except Chavez was the main reason this is happening. Now with Maduro it's worse.
If there wasn't a coup that removed Marco Perez Jimenez, we would have been ok.
Bolivia is full of Bolivianos/indians. At least Peru had a good amount of immigrants (particularly Japanese).
Brasil stuck together because the emperors of Brasil, like Pedro I and Pedro II. If it wasn't for them, it would have balkanized.
That would be Guayaquil in Ecuador. They even have a nice statue of Bolivar grabbing San Martin's ass.
I kinda get it now.
It seems that the care the portuguese had for their colony (it was a portuguese prince that gave them independence) was what meant unity in the end.
Treat something well enough and it'll produce good offspring.
It was also more centralized and stuff
The Portuguese even escaped to Brazil at some point during the Napoleonic wars and all
It was when they went back to Portugal that the Prince stayed behind and crowned himself Emperor of Brazil
>the king escaped to Brazil
Yes I know that, that's what I meant about the care they had for you.
Not much related, but I'm curious anyway so I'll ask: how were and are the relations between Brazil and Portugal?
>The Portuguese even escaped to Brazil at some point during the Napoleonic wars and all
That is the funniest thing in all of Brazillian history.
No royal family in Europe had even set foot in colonies in the new world.
But the portuguese not only came to visit, but came to live here, all because Napolean was about to wreck some portuguese ass.
Very chill, couple of skirmishes when Indepence hit, but no famous battles, the portuguese left comparatively peacefully compared to North america or spanish america
Very chill, we banter with each other and apart from euro pride the portuguese are just like us
>how were and are the relations between Brazil and Portugal?
Brazillians were exploited, Portuguese didn't gave a shit, just wanted that mad new world money.
Pretty ok, we let our past behind.
>It's like the British queen actually living in Canada.
Brazillian-Portuguese relations were NOTHING like Canadian-British relations anon.
Canada was "population" colony while Brazil was an exploitation colony.
I guess that is not even a distinction I could find in english texts about this.
But other Latin Americans will understand what I am talking about here.
Brief Argie history
>1806: Brits try to take Buenos Aires but fail
>This plus Spain's situation encouraged La Plata to declare independence in 1810, formally in 1816
>San Martin defeats spaniards in Argentina, then follows in Chile and Peru
>Civil war between Buenos Aires province and the rest until 1880
>Conservative presidents creat an oligarchy
>Bring European ideas that reflects in today's argentine eurobooism
>European inmigrants start coming in masses, specially Italians and Spaniards, until 1930s
>Economic prosperity, european tier life quality
>Conquest of eastern Patagonia exterminating all the amerinidans
>Oligarchy keeps strong until 1914 when the first democratic elections are celebrated
>1914-1930 UCR party governments
>Thing still great
>1929 global crisis fucks our export based economy
>The military makes a coup d'etat
>A guy from the government starts giving the low working classes economic favours
>This guy was Peron
>Elected president in 1946-1952
>Economy's fine at first but starts going downhill
>1952 another coup d'etat
From this point the country starts going downhill with a sucession of democratic governments and coup d'etats until 1983. The last one is the most infamous one (muh desaparecidos and Falklands)
>Democratic government again 1983
>The country is merely a shadow of what it was back in the early 1900s, completely fucked economy
>Neoliberal policies contribute to screw up more until the 2001 crisis
>Chaos until Kirchner's ascencion in 2003
>Things start to get not great, but better than before
>The country grows until 2007
>Economy's stuck until now
And that's how you fuck up a country. We might be good compared to other latino countries but we're still shit, even worse when you realize Argentina was europa tier in early 1900s.
>If there wasn't a coup that removed Marco Perez Jimenez, we would have been ok.
this is the most retarded thing someone said ever.
i love how you qualify chavez as dictator but want perez jimenez back
fucking sifrino scum. i wont lose my time arguing with people like you desu. it's like a parrot.
repeating something over and over again..
the las one died in my lifetime, don't know when
Taking a class on colonial times. Luckily I have a professor who deals with race and religion in the class in an evenhanded way.
While this did happen a lot, I'd be bold enough to say that most was indirect via overworking and disease epidemics.
Spain wanted Indians to convert to Catholicism, to get them luxury goods, and to function as part of the military in the war against the Muslims.
Yes. And those who survived were turned into slaves.
>Get mistreated by colonial policy
Not really, but I'm talking about the Spanish empire. The places that prospered because of the Crown's policies were the first to raise against it.
If it's because of the 1969 war, relations weren't really tarnished after the war. The average honduran does not care (or does not know) about the war, nor does he hate salvadorans.
There's actually quite a lot of "propaganda" (if I may call it like that), that says that all of Central America SHOULD be united; there's almost a sense of brotherhood that hondurans have with the rest of Central Americans. I don't know if it's the same case for the rest.
Has anyone read "The True History of the Conquest of Mexico" it was written by Bernal Diaz del Castillo who was one of the soldiers under Hernan Cortez in his campaign. I got started but didn't finish due to life.
The North of the country avoided many of the problems that traditionally plagued Latin American countries; they had a diversified economy dominated by small holders and educated merchants.
But the South, dominated by ranching barons, used policies to fuck over the north like messing around with currency and refusing to establish a national bank.
Then there's the impossibility of having stable government up until the Trujillo Era. Leaders who marched into the capital were content with exiling their enemies, leaving them to return with mercenary armies and continue the civil war a few years later. Other leaders would have just killed them and cemented control
And of course, the insane amount of isolationism.
It could have been the Prussia of the Caribbean, dominating Central America and punching way above its weight, but it didn't happen.