>>80088 >Philosophy, mythology, and history go hand in hand. /his/ sits between the perfect balance of /lit/ and /pol/ and its this balance that makes the board neutral. If you removed one the board would lose its identity and swing into a specific field.
One of the main pillars of living the stoic life is recognizing that adversity could come from anywhere. It should be expected, prepared for, so that when it finally comes you have the discipline and strength to face it.
Take this anon for example >>80417 This is how you incorrectly deal with external forces. A virtuous man would never be so insecure. Rather than respond immaturely by demanding we leave, the proper response would be to accept our modest thread and try to enjoy the rest of the board.
>>80623 Tbh he was one of the most based emporors but sent his son away in his childhood so he could focus ln governing, he ended up barely knowing his son and letting his fatherly position cloud his judgement.
What's a good starting to point to learn more about Epictetus? Stoicism always feel like one of the few philosophies that if everyone followed the world would be a better place. I know that's what 90% of all philosophies say, but usually it's a bunch of hot air to make themselves look good. Stoicism is entirely dedicated to self improvement and the belief that the only true evil out there is accepting ignorance into your life.
>>81013 >>81030 Stoicism justifies itself by its cosmology. The cosmos is rational, orderly and the way it should be, therefore a person needs to conform to its ways in order to live virtuously. Turns out that the cosmos isn't stable and reasonable and orderly and that the notion that man should conform to nature is nonsensical since man is a part of nature and thereby per definition conforms to it.
Stoicism is an appeal to nature based on a flawed idea of nature.
>>80933 nah dude as much as you can try to draw on stoicism, all their dictums will melt away whenever you're faced with an actual tough decision cultural conditioning too stronk cannot be overcome also your claim kinda blankets the whole of virtue ethics in general (which you should check out) and not just stoicism there's been a recent revival in virtue ethics through figures like alasdair macintyre
>>80992 >>81221 >>81224 >>81459 As someone who follows the stoic lifestyle I have this to say. Stoic metaphysics and ethics have been mostly deconstructed and abandoned by philosophers. This would present a serious issue. However, no modern stoic claims to follow these ancient doctrines to the letter. This argument fails to account for the way our philosophy has evolved throughout the centuries. Nowadays stoicism is less mysticism and more of a lifestyle. Given the advances made in the fields of biology, psychology, physics, etc, I'd say the challenge for any aspiring stoic with a passion for philosophy is to find a more modern view of the universe from which to draw our view of the universe/ethics from. These criticisms are valid, and as an aspiring student of virtue, it would be arrogant of me to dismiss them. I thank you anon for your contributions.
>>80933 >there's been a recent revival in virtue ethics through figures like alasdair macintyre I'd recommend doing this either first or while viewing the older source materials. At the very least have the Stanford encyclopedia of philosophy open in a tab. This way you can separate the life advice from the more outdated ideas.
Epictetus really helped me get into Stoic thought. I wanted to like Marcus Aurelius and I even bought his book, but it just read to blandly for my taste. Epictetus read with seemingly more passion... From his discourses(technically the Manual):
>How much longer will you wait before you think yourself worthy of the best things?...You are no longer a boy, but a grown man! If now you are negligent or idle, and always making one delay after another, and setting one day after another as being the day when you will better yourself, then you will fail to realize you're making no progress, but will continue to be a layman, both in life and death. From this moment, consider yourself worthy of living as a man grown up and who is making progress... And if you meet with anything, burdensome or sweet... now is the time of contest, here is the Olympiad, and you cannot defer things any longer. It rests on a single action, in a single day whether progress is lost or maintained!
>>81619 The problem is that Marcus's book is a journal. Many people believe it was never meant to be read by anyone else but him in the first place. I'd say that the quotes definitely work as they sum up the ideas of stoicism in a very succulent manner, but yeah Meditations does lack the impact Epictetus had with his works.
>>81550 Seems reasonable, if you take the "this is just how I'd like to live my life" approach without making any claims regarding the validity of said lifestyle grounded in metaphysical claims then my objections wouldn't hold ground. But that would involve the rather arbitrary nature of adhering to stoicism, or any other ethical system for that matter, and a lot of people dislike admitting this about their preferred ideology.
Just out of curiosity, what has drawn you to Stoicism over other philosophies?
>>81799 >>81870 Epicureanism is just forward-thinking hedonism, and it has no solution to the Hedonistic Treadmill. Saying that Stoicism is full of holes and that Epicureanism has held up better is not an argument.
Is Stoicism basically just Cynicism-lite? It's like Zeno wanted to have his cake and eat it too, and decided that society being retarded is fine and that you should conform to whatever roles you're born into.
>tfw want to be a Cynic but there's virtually no writings left >tfw have to read Stoic texts and just try to figure out Cynicism from that
>>82033 >it has no solution to the Hedonistic Treadmill. I'd say it is an answer to the hedonistic treadmill since it does not seek out positive pleasure but realises a stable tranquillity is the best you can hope for.
Seeking out ataraxia is something wholly different than folk hedonism.
>>82127 Yes, Stoicism is Cynicism with a lot of hard work and dedication removed and replaced by the kind of idle theorising that Diogenes disliked. The reason it was founded was because Zeno literally didn't have what it take to be a Cynic.
If you're interested in Cynicism there luckily is a handful of good academic works on them:
>>81742 It keeps with my military training, but goes a step forward, particularly in regards to ethics. To put it succinctly; being in the army taught me discipline and strength, stoicism opened my eyes to the other virtues. I acknowledge that it no longer works as a system of ethics, which is why my current goal is to educate myself on more contemporary interpretations of virtue ethics so I can re-phrase the stoic lifestyle to make sense within a modern context.
>>82166 It doesn't solve the Treadmill because instead of positive hedonism it replaces with with negative hedonism, instead of running to pleasures it runs away from displeasures. There's no actual end goal to Epicureanism, unlike being a Stoic Sage or reaching Nirvana.
Although non fui, fui, non sum, non curo is a pretty badass epitaph. >>82409 Why does it no longer work as a system of ethics? Do ethnics stop being meaningful when they become inconvenient in a modern lifestyle?
Ya, Zeno was pretty radical. It's a shame his Republic didn't survive, it sounds pretty neat. By the way, what do you make of Diogenes? On one hand his actions had a lot of sense and wisdom to them, but on the other hand it seems like he did a lot of stuff just to piss people off for no reason, like constantly fucking with Plato and insulting him.
>>82609 >It doesn't solve the Treadmill because instead of positive hedonism it replaces with with negative hedonism, instead of running to pleasures it runs away from displeasures. It advices to stay away from avoidable suffering and accept the suffering that can't be helped. It's a very practical practise that works well.
>There's no actual end goal to Epicureanism, unlike being a Stoic Sage or reaching Nirvana. Ataraxia is the end goal.
>>82680 I wouldn't call Diogenes' zany antics transgressive for their own sake but rather a sort of continuous performance art in service of his philosophy.
That said, I do think he legitimately enjoyed being an contrarian cunt in itself.
Fucking with Plato would have a function though, since Plato embodied the kind of philosophy that Diogenes detested (elitist, opportunist, abstract, sophistic, impractical, esoteric word games and naval gazing and excessive theorising and such). The Greeks were a competitive lot in general and philosophers were no different, rivalry between schools was a constant game of one-upmanship and they all trashed each other whenever possible.
>>82609 I'm no philosophy expert but if my understanding of the older stoic doctrines and history is correct, the ethical basis for stoicism is influenced heavily by Natural Law theory, which has been endlessly deconstructed for a couple of centuries. It'd be unreasonable to adopt the views of Zeno and Epictetus verbatim. My conclusion (and justification for following the stoic lifestyle beyond personal choice) is this: The ideals and goals of stoicism remain valid, but they require modernization to remain existentially viable.
>>82609 >There's no actual end goal to Epicureanism, unlike being a Stoic Sage There is no end goal but to be well throughout life. Despite the misery and dangers of the world (Which I take a rather large interest in) I am a pretty calm and happy person. What's a "stoic sage"? Ataraxia is real my friend.
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