>>84233 Lack of willingness of the dominant ethnicity to participate in state affairs, large exchanges of population (typically through colonization or migration), refusal to innovate, inability of successors to hold up the standards of predecessors.
Here's the universal one: Erosion of the main competitive advantages that enabled the Empire to spring up in the first place, like with all the colonial peoples getting guns or the Germanics figuring out how to agriculture
>>84422 The Ottomans and Romans both relied too heavily on foreign armies which empowered them into a state of being able to fight back against them. With Rome it was the Germanic federates, and for the Ottomans it was Janissaries and people like Muhammad Ali.
Open borders and/or cultural disintegration through other means such as the death of a lynchpin ruler Civic non-participation (linked to #1) Becoming a rentier-warfare state Poor succession practices (whether this is "the Khan died, time to go home" or whatever else) Ideological shifts removing the underpinning of the empire (whether through violent revolution or voluntary withdrawal) Unsustainable level of material disparity Things you have no chance of stopping (muh babby ice age)
tl;dr shit changes, empires fall, it's inevitable. You can tell when they're in their death throes, though, like the US.
>>84538 The Jannissaries were disbanded a century before the Ottoman empire was dismantled.
Also, Rome didn't just choose to use federates. They had a demographic crisis insofar as they could no longer pump out fucktons of Romans to fill the army, so they had no choice but to leverage their wealth to maintain their holdings.
It's fun to see "demographic crisis" and point to modern europe, but OTOH, other empires have collapsed without any such demographic crisis so I wouldn't call it a trend.
>>84589 A century before its official collapse, they were definitely their way into the grave. As for having a 'choice' or not, that's fair enough, but they chose to try and maintain their all-too-extensive borders rather than recede and centralize.
Ecological collapse & population overshoot, which tend to go hand in hand. Everything else is basically cultural window dressing, conveniently covering eroded mountainsides & deforested river valleys until they can't be ignored any longer.
>>84233 How about we agree on this, /his/? Let's avoid all words that are political charged in modern times when describing the fall of empires. Immigrants, degeneracy, etc. As a lot of these just are political views projected onto ancient countries, when really, modern countries are pretty different from ancient empires. "history never changes" and all that, but I'm pretty sure we don't have some peculiarities of history, like having a single ruling ethnic group over other ethnic groups, and other purely historical governments. As such, I'm not sure this /pol/ lingo is even applicable.
the size where a group of people can do things together without damage is actually pretty small. the lifetime of a nation or citystate can be extended far with good management but empires have no natural lifetime at all. they're held together by a couple of people making everything else their bitch, and when those people are gone the empire disintegrates at the speed it takes for the news to travel.
>>87096 No, I think we're special because we don't have a feudal system, there's only a handful of countries that rule even 2 ethnic groups outside the ethnic clusterfuck of subsaharan africa. That's a huge fucking difference from a lot of history. Call me crazy, but I don't think any modern factor of downfall for current nations, would apply to places like the Holy Roman Empire. The systems are too radically different to just put a blanket statement over it.
>>84362 >If the masses had proportional power all along If by that you meant if the power gap between middle class and rich stayed the same, you would probably be correct. If you meant that everyone should have equal power to each other, then you wrong. The average person wouldn't be able to make adequate decisions.
>>84233 There is a trend and it goes like this mostly >small kingdom through the efforts of a wise leaders becomes bigger >the big kingdom gets several more good leaders who expand its borders >a golden age of culture and economy happens as the empire is militarily economicall and culturally at its peak >decline happen whichs is followed by a dissolution
Thread replies: 45 Thread images: 10
Thread DB ID: 69628
All trademarks and copyrights on this page are owned by their respective parties. Images uploaded are the responsibility of the Poster. Comments are owned by the Poster.
This is a 4chan archive - all of the content originated from them. If you need IP information for a Poster - you need to contact them. This website shows only archived content.
If a post contains personal/copyrighted/illegal content you can contact me at email@example.com with that post and thread number and it will be removed as soon as possible.