>>2225714 It was designed for young adults that were more mature during the time that it aired. Now a days it's more about appealing to teenager's and a generation of people that never want to grow up.that's why all the grit was taken out of it, for maximum escapism.
>>2225718 Anime still appeals to young adults. The difference is the quality/maturity of young adults these days are poor. Most young adults nowadays still act like outright children who aren't old enough to procreate and it shows with the direction the market has taken.
>>2225819 I've never seen that show in the op but the design looks more appealing to me than most current designs. Seriously Haruhi and Code Geass and all that stuff looks legit like garbage in comparison, at least when it comes to character art.
less blob. man was not made to love a marshmallow face.
>>2225832 i never understood that design choice for the haruhi series. the illustrations for the novel were animu-staple appealing and the studio turned them into a style that was just plain ugly. and yet people ate it up. it felt like i was in bizarro world.
>>2225856 >i never understood that design choice for the haruhi series. the illustrations for the novel were animu-staple appealing and the studio turned them into a style that was just plain ugly. and yet people ate it up. it felt like i was in bizarro world. This isn't directly related, but I've never understood how anyone could tolerate the art style they used for clannad. ugliest shit i've ever seen and a big reason i never touched it
>>2225876 same studio, i think. that makes sense, actually. i can totally see the last dregs of the clannad style in the haruhi style, which finally got dumped when they moved on to k-on. way too blobby for my tastes, but not actively ugly to look at.
but yeah, idgi. okay, so the original series had shit art because they couldn't budget good stuff. shouldn't the anime be used to improve on the visuals, rather than crystalize them?
I think most of it depends on the lead artist, a lot of the time the lead artists of the day might have some similar visual memes though.
One thing I've noticed is that a lot of the drawing "symbols" or memes were different. The noses were generally small but were actually features that took up a sizeable portion of the face in comparison to a lot of today's anime, some of them even having bottom planes!
>>2225714 Your goggles are just foggy. Anime today looks gorgeous and the colors are cheese cake tasty. My only gripe with present day anime is the 3DCG for the very simple things animators used to animate (smoke, fire, wind); it has that computer generated look instead of its old, slow timing look which made anime look past-time dreamy. Only 2 studios keep away from doing that I think.
>>2226233 yeah, we have the benefit of hindsight, the only 80's animes you hear about will either be really good or really bad because anything mediocre was forgotten
>>2226248 you gotta remember that anime budgets were higher back in the day, and they also HAD to use cel-sheets with acrylic paint. combined with the camera's they used, it led to even the most chaotic color schemes having some sense of harmony through desaturation and exposure styles. nowadays, most work is made on a shoestring budget in retas pro, and the anime industry has shifted towards making as many cheap shows as they can in the hopes that one of them will be a big hit (kinda like the japanese games industry's mobile focus as of late). also note that the anime demographic, while always being otaku and children, has shifted more towards the extremes because that's where the money is apparently
>>2226265 Interesting. Can you expand on the shifts in budgets and demographics more? How much cheaper are they being made? Are they really cutting more corners than before? If you watch old Gundam episodes you can see they reuse the same animations sequences a lot, and I don't see that in modern ones. I suspect that budget and time has always been an issue, no? Plus it seems modern anime (from what I've seen) has really focused on getting more crazy and dynamic and flashy action scenes than ever before, and I imagine these are rather expensive to animate.
>>2226328 >Blue skies, white clouds, Tokyo suburbs
It's pretty much the heart of Japan. What are you trying to get at?
>disgusting moeblob faces your mothers face is disgusting >unnatrual hair/eye colors everywhere Lets not turn this thread into yet another you know what thread that has been debated a bajillion times. If you've watched enough anime, hell even this seasons (see Gate for example), you would know why there is different hair/eye color. Do not try to derail talking about this.
I Iike the look of 90s and early to mid 00s anime. The 80s stuff looks, Idk muggy and old, while the stuff today looks too digital, stiff, and just soulless.The look Cowboy Bebop has is where anime peeked
>It's pretty much the heart of Japan. What are you trying to get at?
I'm saying that anime now is very creatively myopic; it doesn't really go beyond contemporary Japanese slice-of-life themes. And duh I understand that they're trying to appeal to Japan, but older anime branched out a bit more. I think one of the big reasons why something like Attack on Titan stands out is because no matter what you think of it, it's at least on the surface very different from the other options today. It's not blatantly shonen shit, has characters of different/established ethnicities, and has a story that has international appeal. It doesn't even do those elements that well but the fact that it attempts it is kind of refreshing. It also seems like something that would encourage more risky and less derivative work.
This is dead on. The 2010s version is just this crisp series of vectory art with a chipmunk nose, a mouth that can be drawn in one stroke, and eyes that don't even resemble real human eyes. Anime has become so stylized its now completely disconnected from its humanity, and without that it could barely be considered art.
>>2226427 > Anime has become so stylized its now completely disconnected from its humanity
You don't know what the fuck you're talking about. Late 90s / early 00s anime was WAY more heavily stylized than today's anime. The huge bug eyed monsters from the 90s luckily don't exist anymore.
I mean, how the fuck can you even quote >>2226351 and then go on about how anime is only NOW disconnected from humanitY? Do you honestly think any of those other versions look more based in reality than the 2010 one? Just look at the 2000 version and the 2010 version. The only major difference is that the 2000 version has even more ridiculously stylized and huge eyes. If anything, the 2010 version looks closest to the 80s version, whereis 90s and 00 clearly are by far aesthetically the ugliest.
>>2226427 >I'm saying that anime now is very creatively myopic; it doesn't really go beyond contemporary Japanese slice-of-life themes.
Do you even watch current anime? Granted the pic I posted is from a waste of time anime but
>and has a story that has international appeal
Nooooo. Otaku do not want international appeal. That's where you get SJWs to come in and kill the industry quickly. The reason why anime has lasted this long away from their grips is because it mostly appeals to men and children up to their mid 30s who shun reality. And thankfully it will stay that way for another decade or 2 thanks to the people who grew up with the medium in the 90s.
You can have international appeal without pandering to SJWs. Jesus Christ, why is there no middle ground anymore? Does this entire site think that Anita Sarkeesian rules the world?
> The reason why anime has lasted this long away from their grips is because it mostly appeals to men and children up to their mid 30s who shun reality. And thankfully it will stay that way for another decade or 2 thanks to the people who grew up with the medium in the 90s.
Yep, and it's also why it has a neckbeard stigma. We could have anime like Cowboy Bebop that touches all bases but instead we need fanservice that leads nowhere because otakus are such cuckphobes that they can't stand seeing their animu waifu with anyone other than generic brown-hair insert protagonist. The women are all boring and pure and almost by some kind of MPAA-like code they must have eyes only for the main guy. There hasn't been a Revy or a Ryoko or a Faye Valentine in the last 15 years. Just more cookie-cutter waifu templates.
I don't think you're entirely wrong because I think a lot of anime's audience wants it all to follow the same mold, but a little dose of variety would be nice. No one ever thought TV shows would gain the artistic legitimacy they have now; for the longest time it was seen as trash next to film. Anime could have a similar renaissance if it wanted to. It's a business and does fine playing it safe, but it would take the slightest bit of forward-thinking to make it not look like cynical commercial weeaboo trash.
>>2226490 Huurr we're trapped in a sand tomb for 9 episodes durr - the anime. Literally want my life back. The only redeeming quality that show had is the OST and of course whited haired waifu. I fucking hate when good OST is composed for shit shows.
I bet you're one of those people who think overlord is shit.
>>2226491 >why is there no middle ground anymore? Because you give an inch and they would take a mile. Never give an inch. >but a little dose of variety would be nice
I don't disagree with you there but limit it to 3 snowflake gems per year maximum. Any more than that and the Anita clones will get uppity. >>2226492 Yes it was trash. Which was a shame with all the aztec(?) influence.
Black Magic M-66 Cyber City Oedo 808 Robot Carnival Tatakae!! Iczer-1 Twilight of the Dark Masters Vampire Hunter D
If you're fond of weird artsy shit, Angel's Egg is worth a look. >>2226192 >Anime today looks gorgeous I don't agree. I guess if you watch Blu-Ray releases only, but even then they're not great. Sailor Moon Crystal is a good example, because it's not only inferior to the previous version, the fixes aren't even that good.
One of the big differences is that anime people remember from the late 80s/early 90s tend to be OAVs, which had higher production values than TV anime. A lot of TV anime from the 80s and 90s are completely forgotten.
Anime is a much larger industry these days compared to then, and things seem to have a shorter turnaround, and there seems to be a lot of studios going for "safe" series that have a good chance of making their money back, while the stuff remembered from the 80s/90s had more freedom and was more experimental. >>2226265 This guy gets it. >>2226271 Gundam was a TV anime, and there was actually more OVAs than TV anime back in the day, and now it's completely the other way around. In the late 80s there might be 12 anime over the entire year, and 30-40 OVAs, now there's like 30+ anime a season with 10+ OVA/films. >>2226448 >That's where you get SJWs to come in and kill the industry quickly. >implying Japanese execs will give even the merest bit of a fuck that middle-class american white girls whine about their product on tumblr
>>2226600 You are aware that they're made shitty on purpose then revamped for the blu-ray version because that's their main money-maker. One blu-ray set containing 4 episodes will typically sell for the equivalent of $50 in Japan. It's been done so much that it's expected, so companies will fix small things just to say they did it exclusively for the blu-ray version even if the fixes are unnecessary/worse.
>>2226600 Nobody wants nobody likes gaylor moon but the nostalgia weenies. Toei could have done a baggin' good job on it if they wanted to but did so on purpose because they don't want to take away from pretty cure (good on them too). Fuck sailor moon.
>>2226619 Yes, I know. Most anime these days bank on DVD sales and merch to make their money. >>2226625 So they wouldn't cannibalize their own sales? I don't really believe it. Sailor Moon has a fanbase far beyond Japan, far, far larger than Precure, and fucking it up was basically throwing money in the bin that could have gone in their pockets. The people who buy Precure would have bought it anyways, and way, way more people would(and probably did anyways) buy Sailor Moon.
>>2226639 Sailor moon has ran its course. The senshi designs are way outdated to appeal to younger girls these days (limited color pallet) and we all know there are barely any toy ideas they can bank off the franchise with that demographic. It relied on its filler episodes which the original did well in so a remake was bound to be shit 'staying truthful to the manga'.
It would have been a temporary win and franchise suicide for precure had they put it on a sunday slot and take away the talent pool from Gopri. They knew what they were doing. >>2226649
Yes yes we have the weirdo 28 year old salerymen buying the snacks and keychains but it's still supposed to be for girls. Imagine picking up a folder of sailormoon with washed out colors from the 90s for your daughter to take to school. It just looks ugly and outdated.
>>2226223 tbh the one on the right looks plastic and unnatural. Seriusly wtf, is her hair taken from a doll? Compare that to the natural looking hair on the left. The face on the right has random bits of modeling that make no sense, whereas the one on the left retains simplicity with a tasteful flat tone. Basically the new stuff looks artificial and overrendered, but that only happens in shit anime imo.
>>2226571 yep. Nowadays they make their bodies too slender. But plump thighs and calves are great, plus the navel line makes her look like she's fertile as fuck. It's obvious that the artist has done his figure drawing.
>>2226937 I enjoy Miyazaki's work but in the end he does so little of it that he's almost an irrelevant part of Studio Ghibli, yet his name carries so much weight that they won't be able to keep going without him.
>>2226947 dog, he storyboarded the entirety of every film he made (or do you mean that proportionately he does only a small amount of the total output of studio ghibli, in which case i still wouldn't call him irrelevant, but it is true that it's kinna unfair how much people focus on his work as opposed to the other directors like takahata, but he's still directed, written and boarded the majority of their films)
>>2225740 >80's-90's anime is deep into sci-fi/fantasy stuff, looks more "adult" than cartoons and isn't afraid to deal with deep shit >Current anime is moeblob harem hikkikomori fantasies >80's-90's cartoons a children's entertainment with plenty of adult themes, jokes, puns and themes for the parents/big bros who happen to be watching >Current cartoons are randumb over-infantilized safe spaces with shallow bits of mature themes to pretend they're profound and trigger tumblr's kindergarten-level feels. >80's-90's comics are... literally everything, you can find anything from comedy serials to grittydark edgelord "graphic novels". >Current comics are diversity pandering to weirdos who like to buy merchandise to feel like they belong in the "nerd culture" bandwagon but don't actually read comics. >80's-90's music is again literally everything, wether you're in the mood for pretentios "intellectual" prog-rock, whiny nu-metal or bubblegum pop, you got it. >Current music is afraid to use words longer than 2 syllables in it's lyrics, if it even has lyrics in the first place and isn't all marbles on an old blender sounds.
They said globalization would make the world a better place with more cultured and informed people producing more creative and deep artworks.
It's funny how /ic/ adores normie anime, anything that was on Toonami/Ghibli that they watched in their childhoods. As soon as they get out of their teens they turn militantly autistic over anything that isn't 2deep4u muh symbolism anime.
>>2226677 I watched that show when I was 7, and loved it.
I'm not really sure what age group it was originally meant for, if younger teen, then you are probably right, but younger girls, the ones who run around with frozen stuff now a days, probably wouldn't mind the classic design, just as they don't mind the Disney princesses dresses.
>>2226940 >He's not talking about visuals He was specifically referring to animation and saying that most animators no longer go out and observe the subtleties of human movement and interaction. It was from some behind-the-scenes clip for whatever film I can't remember.
>>2228054 anime in the 80-90's was during a bubble where they could produce almost anything and proffit.
current anime... i dont want to call moeblob, there are some but god damn if those are on your radar somethings wrong with you, there may be 1-4 a season that are worth paying attention to, not watching, just paying attention.
old cartoons... yea, lets make cartoons to drive toy sales... never understood what people love and fetishize about older cartoons, new cartoons... i honestly think there are some gems in there right now that will pass the test of time... if you go ever older back to tom and jerry or wb in its prime... there are some cartoons that are ageless, but its all slapstick
music in the 80's... major players were more open to metal and non formula music,
the 90's came and they were less open to it and emo slipped in hardcore.
today almost no major player will take a chance on non formula music, that's why you have to go more for an indie scene,
and as for globalization, no, it will in time make a homogenized product that lacks any appeal for being different and from an area in specific... its partially what makes anime and manga good, japan doesn't give one fuck about other regions.
>>2225728 used actual cels, not digital, there is a charm to this that just isn't there in full digital.
>>2225863 took a random space dandy still... nope, these guns have far more detail, and the hair has actual shades to it and isnt just black. SD may be smoother, and possibly have better animation over all, but this is still more detailed, and note that im only talking about the moving parts, not the still background things.
>>2226271 i imagine the budgets have state relatively the same, the issue is 20000000 yen in the day got you a fuck load more than than it does now. also, new gundam if i'm not mistaken the robots are cg, so its easier to animate a new pose and looks better than if they if they did not.
>>2225722 slayers, the oav's the movies tenchi muyo maybe rune soldier el hazard, i prefer the tv over the oav's but thats because of that fucking lesbian that makes me hate lesbians. hard to go wrong with the first few seasons of ranma half god, i fucking blank when i have to think of 80's and 90's only gokuto there are alot more than i just cant think of, i may look through a list of what i have seen some time later and add.
>>2225714 I'd say the aethstetics of anime were good up until 2000. After that, less and less was hand drawn, and the demographic started to change drastically.
Many modern anime styles have morphed into something that quite literally makes no sense, and couldn't exist in a three dimensional space. The sense of form is gone, and I think it's a result of people actually adopting the mistakes and flaws of popular artists, and mistaking it as style. Look at something like Code Geass. Everything is just a broken, unappealing mess, where the faces look weird because the artist doesn't seem to understand form, and can't draw anything at an unusual angle.
>>2226351 The 90s picture is way off and looks more like early 2000s, with the exception of a tiny handful of shows. It's not like Slayers was the norm back then.
>>2230207 all i remember is there was a chick with a dick in the japanese version could be transgendered, i dont know, all i know is she had a dick and because its not a porn, we probably never good a good look under the balls.
>>2230268 It was a character. I probably blowing smoke up your ass but i think it was the one they based elsa from frozen on. I'm sure im wrong. I think she was in part 2 or 3 with the clown tent that magically appears in the city. She's (he) was a circus performer.
>>2225714 it's old enough to be cool again instead of just outdating. fashion, music, aesthetic, all these things run in 30 year cycles. stop making up this nostalgic shit about animu ever being good enough to have declined in quality.
>>2226937 >>2226940 >>2226948 So basically that confirms what I've been thinking myself too. Almost all of the characters in anime seem off and all the parts with socialization are fake as fuck. As if portrayed by someone who hasn't really socialized with anyone but has an impression of how he thinks it looks like. It's mostly extremely simplistic and nearly childish.
>hey, friend, want to hear a joke? >sure bro, tell me the joke! >JOKE >hahahah man that was a good joke, you always tell good jokes and make me laugh
>>2232511 To add I always thought wapanese in general were autistic as fuck and most of their social interactions were merely imitations and simulations of what they've observed from TV or some other media. The limited personal experience with them confirms it, too.
But maybe it's just the spergs. Anyone else noticed something similar?
>>2230357 this image suggests that noses and faces really do lose definition, overall. of course, we don't know how hard the creator of this image decided to cherry pick distinctive-looking old shows.
>>2226265 >and they also HAD to use cel-sheets with acrylic paint. combined with the camera's they used, it led to even the most chaotic color schemes having some sense of harmony through desaturation and exposure styles.
this also makes sense. it's easier to forgive flaws when they're somewhat covered up this way.
this thread made me remember how much I actually appreciate elaborate fantasy/sci-fi visuals. anime and anime-art games were always fighting to get your attention no matter what, coating their unapologetic escapism with as much sex and violence and flashiness as can be crammed into your eyes without exceeding their budget. fuck, I miss being young and naive.
>>2225718 anime was always kind of ridiculous and focused on maximum escapism for teenagers - it's probably just worse today because the studios are aware of how pathetic their most hardcore customers are yet they have to pander to these fans specifically for merch bux.
>>2232096 Ping pong the animation, honestly one of my favs to date, both story and animation wise. Gets me hard every time I watch it. If you like it watch tekkonkinkreet and mind game as well. Classics like ghost in the shell, akira, paprika and cowboy bebop you've probably seen but all really good watches if you haven't. A newer one but with pretty solid animation was sword of the stranger. Redline you've probably seen.
The reason for my fascination is that 80s manner of drawing and animating gives an illusion of being less manafactured and artificial. The style reflects the environment of small studios with passionate people who were often improvising and trying things out. You can feel the people behind them and their choices in design
Modern style reflects more standardized approach. On the board meetings spontaneous, risky ideas are avoided like fire. It's because if you release something that deviates from the established cliche and 6,672% of viewerbase will not get it, it will have detrimental effect on the sales
I don't wish for 80s aeshtetic to come back or anything because I don't watch anime, but I'm pleased by the spontaneous spirit and genuine passion that it expresses
>>2236079 In manga, maybe, but the limitations of animation and the influence of leiji matsumoto and a few others kept 80s anime to a general aesthetic. Most of it was based on what was selling and some top quality shit was selling in the 80s bubble economy.
What we should really be discussing is how 80s manga was the point when everything blew up and diversified from the initial "schools" of tezuka and others. You saw a massive jump in quality and improved printing methods that fostered the manga that were made into 80s anime.
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