To expand on this, Manga Studio basically feels like Photoshop and Sai's lovechild. It's missing a little of the utility of photoshop but personally I find it's a lot easier to actually utilize for digital art. I often hear about people doing their drawing/inking and whatever in Manga Studio or SAI and then doing the details in photoshop.
>>2237270 Manga Studio 5 is the best art program that exists if you're only counting features for artists. PS might beat it on the absolute number of features because that total is inflated by photo features for graphics guys.
Personally, I would take MS's ruler toys over PS's photomanipulation tool #413.
I cannot for the life of me enjoy photoshop. I don't know if it's my pressure sensitivity on Ps or something, but everything feels cluncky, lines and brushes. Everything is so fucking smooth on manga studio, that photoshop feels just bad when you try it.
>>2237369 I would argue that photo manipulation can help set up a canvas to paint over. It's just another kind of short-cut, as in, if you suck as an artist it will look like shit, if you know what you're doing you can make it work for you, and it can save you time.
Like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OAfTQ3Wv49E&t=8m49s
>>2237382 Would you not consider tracing to be cheating? I see it very much the same.. using someone else's work.. not their method, but their work to further your own career, or just make cool looking shit. It's not a bad thing when done for fun, it's more often then not, pretty damn cool. In itself though, it feels cheap. You're not furthering your talent, or really creating something yourself. It's a lazy shortcut. References are one thing, but to copy and edit a backdrop... that's something else.
Back to the original point though.. graphic designers and... painters? Artists?- (what word would be appropriate there?) -are not mutually exclusive.. If you're someone who takes a backdrop, adds some blur, maybe clips in some space ships they found on deviant art, then pastes a video game character on top of it.. that's not yours, you're not creating art.. you're rebranding it under your name.
>>2237387 I'm not really sure where to start. Not the same anon, and I think I'll just start with this. It's all just tools. Are you 'cheating' when you start a fire with a lighter instead of sticks? The problem with tracing is one of two things. You're using it to look like you can draw when you can't (bad form, usually pretty damn obvious, lazy, reliance on it limits your ability to improve etc), or you're infringing on copyrights/ip/whatever (bad form, unprofessional, and basically illegal).
What the guy in the video is doing is NOT tracing (and tracing can teach you a lot if you treat it like a learning tool, btw, I'm not railing on it). Manipulating photos to build up a comp/set up color pallet is a great way to help you quickly visualize what the piece will look like when it's finished. Taking colors from a picture to build your color pallet is not 'cheating'. You still have to know how to USE those colors, how to paint, how to draw. Tracing means 'drawing over lines to copy'. He is not doing that in any sense of the definition.
Also if you're going to say what is and isn't art, you're gonna have to define art. Which is a hotmess, not gonna touch it. But in the art world, what you describe as 'not creating art', actually IS creating art. Collages are considered art, and that's just cut/pasting pics.
If you don't want to watch the whole thing, skip over to 9min in the vid. Watch a bit. Skip over to 15 min. Watch a bit. Skip to 30min in. Tell me how that's tracing. Look at what he's actually doing. If you can 'trace' from that kind of maniping and make it look good, you have the skill to do it from scratch. Doing it this way helps speed up the process (for some people at least), esp when you have to pump out tons of pics. You should try it, actually, it'll help you push past your comfort zone a bit (even if you still prefer not to do it in the future!)
Apologies for the little rant, misunderstanding basic art tools is a peeve of mine lol
>>2237485 I can see how manipulating photos can help to better visualize a scene, but isn`t it better to develop your mind`s eye without these kind of crutches? I think it limits the artist development somehow.
>>2237321 >>2237323 >>2237334 As someone who uses krita and has a tight budget, is Manga Studio good enough to spend $50 on? For me, krita's drawing feels just as clunky and disconnected as photoshop's.
>>2237319 >>2237314 Gimp isn't great for drawing, it's built for photo manipulation, i like krita more than photoshop because it gets out of the way, feels a lot more natural, I use mypaint for sketches and export to krita for finalizing.
>>2237671 >krita's drawing feels just as clunky and disconnected as photoshop's It's the first time that I hear such a thing about that software. As a matter of fact everyone says Krita is on top of the game in the drawing/painting department. Maybe your skills are still in baby-tier stage? Because if you suck it doesn't exist yet any magic brush or software to solve lack of skills and talent.
>>2237703 I guess I'm asking if Manga Studio handles drawing in a way that feels closer to traditional drawing, because with a wacom I find it incredibly difficult to get attractive lines when I don't have that problem traditionally.
But what you're saying is to just get used to the tablet then, right?
>>2237714 Well yeah, then I guess I was right. Getting used to the tablet is very hard, it takes at least a year, or even more. Krita gave me the best results, after Corel Painter. Try the Sketch - Sketch_Chrome and Sketch_Shade, pencils from the krita default brushes. Those are the most close to traditional pencil and ink that I've seen yet in any software.
what if you're halfway through the first step of the sticky?
traditional drawing is the way to go, right? I feel like I'd have to acquire the coordination to draw with a pencil first then delve into digital painting. I'll buy a tablet and other material when I have a better grasp at the drawing techniques.
>>2237751 If you want to go digital I would almost just say to get the cheap $100 tablet from wacom if you have the money. It's going to require a lot of time to get used to anyways its not like I can draw on paper so I can do digital they're different mediums you still do need to know how to draw so if you want to do traditional before going over the skills will still carry
>>2237767 You don't need to buy wacom, there are plenty of cheaper comparable off brand devices if you don't have a lot of money to shell out. You miss out on some of the nice reputable brand benefits though. If you have the money, do whatever.
>>2237279 I had photoshop but it wouldn't work with my touch screen for some reason, so I got Manga Studio 5 (mostly because I wanted to play around with the reference manikin feature, which I recently decided was not worth the time it takes to use. Touchscreen works though!)
Well Paint Tool Sai can use Photoshop files so I swap between the that and Photoshop. Photoshop has some really neat and useful features for cutting down on time needed but Paint Tool Sai is just clutter free and easy to work with.
Photoshop suffers from the paradox of choice. It's comparable to having too many channels on a T.V you spend more time looking for something to watch than you would with a simpler setup.
>>2237683 How optimized is mypaint? I mean, my PC is horrible. Intel core 2 duo, 2gb ram, no graphics card horrible, but I use manga studio and photoshop no problem, and for some reason I can barely open krita. Any chance mypaint would run on my computer?
>>2246053 Every professional digital artist worth a damn uses photoshop, deal with it. Feel free to post something done in Manga Studio of the same quality as pic related to prove me wrong, otherwise don't bother replying.
I'm not saying there aren't some exceptions of good artists that use other programs, but it's nothing that can't be done in Photoshop. Yet Photoshop apparently can do things that these other programs can't do, because I have yet to see a truly impressive digital painting done in Manga Studio or Gimp or some shit.
>>2247544 Photoshop can do it as well AND you get to pay more money for it lol. When it comes to painting, krita and manga studio have as much power as photoshop, maybe not for photomanipulation but we are talking paintinghere. What are these special "things" as you call them, photoshop can do that can't be done in other programs and that are especially usefull to painters?
Photoshop can do the things others can, but it just takes more effort for a lot of things. Photoshop isn't really the most accessible program, it has a pretty decent learning curve and most photoshop artists seem to either avoid any detailed linework or need to spend ages gitting gud at it because linework in photoshop is just a fucking nuisance.
>>2246651 >Every professional digital artist worth a damn uses photoshop, deal with it. Do you really think it makes a difference for drawing? Actually, Manga studio at least (didn't tried the others aside Krita which is cool but too slow when using big brushes) is obviously better for painting/drawing. Get rid of your habits and try to explain why PS would be better at painting and drawing. And what difference it makes if you draw in MS or Krita since they can export and read .psd.
>>2237368 Graphic design is qualified as a discipline, not an art. Because it actually has a purpose. As such a lot of Adobe's tools are designed with that in mind and feel extremely clunky when you try to use them for art.
>>2241708 Gorgeous, perfect linework. Pigment color theory bending. An actually useful vector feature that doesn't require you boot AI and deal with PS insisting on turning your vector lines into bitmap every 5 seconds. And it can run on a 15yo computer softly.
>>2245935 You mean Creative Cloud, right? It's just them realizing Apple's business style of selling you the same shit every year with a minor aesthetic paintover doesn't work with a software as powerful as PS and going the Skynet way instead.
You can download CS3 and use it freely because the key authentification servers are down. And sincerely, InDesign, Illustrator, Photoshop and Dreamweaver haven't gotten any better since CS3, hell ID hasn't gotten anything worth updating since CS2. The only software they kept on tweaking meaningfully was Flash and that shit's getting obsoleted soon anyway.
>>2237270 SAI+Photoshop is the holy marriage of digital art. People just don't say it out loud because unless you're japanese, having SAI most likely means you pirated it and people are still cunts about just taking what software you need when buying it isn't an option.
SAI is the best lineart software and while PS is not the best painting program (Painter is), it is the most customizable, the most useful at streamlining your work process through actions, filters, brushes and layer styles, and allows for near-infinite solutions to the same problem.
>>2247544 >because I have yet to see a truly impressive digital painting done in Manga Studio or Gimp or some shit.
Fallacy. You don't know what most of the things you see were done in.
Also Photoshop is older. Almost all expirienced artists grew with it, so leaving it so they have to relearn the UI of another program is pointless if they earn so much they can buy ps 100 times over, get it?
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