So why do Airshit companies Make rifles like the Dragunov, but no one has tried to make a real one themselves? Why not buy an airshit dragunov, do the math, build them and sell them commerically??
I know that fella is trying to make the VSS, though he seems to be a little to busy to finish.
I think I recall only a few instances where an airsoft gun was so close to the real thing as to be able to swap out a few parts and have a fully functional real gun.
Think that happened with an STG-44 once, and it got discontinued rather quickly because of it.
You know that many of them are made of complete metal right?
market is probably a lot smaller than you think.
Price would have to be a lot higher than you think.
almost everything on an SVD would have to need all new tooling to create from furniture to receiver and everything in between.
AKs have a lot more market to pull parts from and assemble rather than in house manufacture.
If an SVD cost $2k I don't think they'd fly off the shelves nearly fast enough to be worth the money.
PSLs were pretty available at points in time and never seemed to sell especially well even at sub $1000 prices
Sure but it didn't sell well even at ~$600-700. Would a SVD suddenly sell well even though its double+ the price?
Sort of proves the point on why no one has done an SVD yet. Biggest appeal of a 54r for most people is cheap ammo. SVD in 308 would probably sell better but then mags and new bolt etc.
Second this. A lot of airshit guns are made with pot metal. Airshit is only good if you buy the top quality gas blowback guns that's mostly made for Japan and hardcore airshitters. Personally I own a KJW M9 Beretta gbb because it is fun to shoot in my really small ass backyard in Commiefornia.
>tfw there's a small push to ban airshit in Commiefornia because muh chullins
The problem is that everything has to be done from scratch. No surplus parts to be had to slash manufacturing costs. It would cost millions to tool up to build, and then you're competing with the authentic Russian ones already here that sell for 4-5k. How many knockoffs would you have to sell in order to recoup your expenses and maybe turn a profit? Let's say the market will only bear a price of $2500 for a US made SVD clone. After you've tooled up, went through all the R&D, QC, regulations, sunk costs, etc, let's say each rifle costs $1000 each in labor and materials costs. Maybe you could mass produce enough to bring your total cost per unit to 2k. Maybe.
Assuming you're a manufacturer who already has a forge and CNC centers, your make or break figure is 3.5 million. You're maybe making $350 per rifle. You would have to sell 10,000 rifles before you start actually making money.
Are there enough people out there to buy that many, given that it's a knockoff and internet commenters will probably shit all over it unless it is 100% identical to the Russian? Very likely not. Also, some of these numbers are probably wildly optimistic.
Better to just keep making 1911s and AR's. At least that's how a manufacturer is going to see it.
Hunk of metal =/= carefully calculated machining used to create a weapon that can withstand the abuse of thousands of rounds of explosive ammunition.
Like comparing a blob of paint to the mona fucking lisa.
>the authentic Russian ones already here that sell for 4-5k.
You're thinking of Norinco NDM-86's and Tigr's.
There are about 100 actual Russian SVD's in America. About 20 are Vietnam bring-backs with no import stamps. These sell for $30,000 on the extremely rare occasions where they trade hands. Then there are about 80 that were brought in by an importer in '87 or '88 or something like that by an importer who got his hands on a batch from one of the Warsaw pack states that was collapsing. These have import stamps and trade for at least $12,000.
>The AK market was ever original anyway.
>Parts from Europe.
>"Hey new [AK-47] rifle from [Unheard Armory] bro".
The SVD is not that complex to tool out. in fact it is simpler than the AR.
>Nobody would ever pay that much money for a gun and then put shitty 7.62x54r surplus through it.
A gun that is sold for under $1.5k. They wouldn't want to bother with surplus anyway.
Too much difference internally and usually he metal is not the type you'd need for anything more than a .22. Basically if you like your hand just don't.
That said you CAN use them as shells/stocks for .22lrs provided you're using the airsoft bit as a custom modified stock replacement. You will almost certainly have to modify the hell out of the few that can actually fit the .22. I'll be turning a defective POS UAR into a cool little .22 once the idiots stop buying it all.
I never got why /k/ hates airsoft so damn much. It literally makes more of us. I remember in the thread this grab came from a kid who played at some /k/ommando's field straight up asked his mom for a real gun afterwards which resulted in a contest vs the shit eating grin and the soccermom glare. Airsoft helps us grow the real guns community and gets people interested.
I've compared Airsoft and real-deal parts before; in full metal guns, some of the parts are identical in machining/manufacturing despite lots of them being aluminum alloy instead of steel.
To be completely honest, I've considered contacting some airshit companies to send me some individual parts to supplement the lacking of real-deal parts in the US.
PSLs didn't sell because they were very finicky with ammo and no one wanted a knockoff Dragunov. It's like people saying "waah we don't want to make a repro MP-40 or MP-44 because all the .22LR versions don't sell."
>There are about 100 actual Russian SVD's in America.
>mfw I had a guy claim up and down he had a Russian SVD
>he goes to community college and had to get rid of his "mac-10" because his "class 3" expired
If I had it my way....
>It's even California Compliant tier.
Or just put "OP" in the Name section and not be a tripcode faggot
Some accessories are actually pretty nice and work for much less than the cost of the name brand real deals stuff.
Sure it's buying a knock off, but if it works it works.
I'll be testing one of these on an AK friday.
>A gun that is sold for under $1.5k. They wouldn't want to bother with surplus anyway
You know, I was going to buy pic related and run a hole shit load of surplus through it. but gud damn obummer and his import restrictions
Tigrs don't have adjustable gas system. Old first gens anyway.
Want to hear something sad?
I've seen quite a few airshits where the manufacturer will actually make a BETTER piece of hardware than the real-deal manufacturer.
Pic related; the chinese copy has an aluminum heat-shield where the real Galil wood handguards did not
Machining is only touching the tip of the iceberg when it comes down to it.
I bet there aren't many machine operators, machinists, CNC operators or gunsmiths on this board. That would be /DIY/.
Take a class and learn how to use micrometers, calipers, blueprints as well as how to draft them, a few magical calculations, and wallah you've made it 1/3 the way there. Gunsmithing is still a whole sector of Machining and Drafting. Good luck
...Just why, why the fuck would it have a heat shield?
It's not even something that's visible from the outside, you would have to disassemble the airshit to even know it's there, and it does NOTHING for the airshit.
I am 100% confused now.
Seriously Got some chinkshit carbon metal screw stripping bullshit bolt rifle. Broke it and gave it to bro to scrap. It came with a decent 3x-9x scope and weaver rail mount with built in illumination light and transparent lens covers. The whole thing was on sale for less than $100 as scope can hold zero with enough force that the lens cover would slide off. If the gun wasn't included, I would say that the scope would have been less than $40.
Wal-mart specials are toys. Quality airsoft guns are somewhere in the middle, not really full on weapons, but not really toys either. Toys generally don't do this to people.
There really needs to be some sort of distinction when you get to stuff that's actually worth using for serious play that actually has power behind it. I'd hesitantly call them non-lethal sporting weapons, but not toys. I figure a good rule of thumb is if the recommended BBs are .12g it's absolutely a toy, especially if it's only rated for 200 fps max with those .12 bbs.
Yeah yeah, you hate airsoft so it's a toy, good for you, ask an airsofter about the "Green Mountain Rangers" and you'll realize that we hate try-hard borderline stolen valor ultra SEAL recon ranger hypermilsim faggots too.
Yeah... I'm going to need a youtube link to that episode. I remember that was a good one.
Anybody got blueprints/dimensions? I only have CAD/CAM shit for the basic ak platforms.
Yup. The one on top is the Tigr version but I can confirm that the SVD regulator is a replacement.
Nobody here has SVD blueprints? Come on /k/, don't let me down.
If you don't have SVD stuff then post specs of specific types of trunnions you want made.
Downloading now. Don't worry about the language, what else do you have?
This doesn't make any sense. There is no operational characteristic of an airshit gun that would lend itself to working like a real gun.
I guess you could put a firing pin on the air piston, but.... I don't think it has enough power in most cases.
Got to check out the NRA museum in VA this last week, probably one of the few times if ever again I'll see a real SVD in the flesh even if it's behind glass
>we hate try-hard borderline stolen valor ultra SEAL recon ranger hypermilsim faggots too.
This. When I was an airshitter I did my best to distance myself from such faglords.
>I was the guy always looking like a ragtag STALKER anyway
No. It's "Lego" for plural.
I don't hate airsoft, but it's not "somewhere in the middle" it's not a weapon at all.
It's as much as a weapon as a steel chair, but I bet the steel chair is more lethal.d
I'd call airsoft guns sports equipment.
Dude, the pieces of shit you get at wal-mart are toys. Double eagle guns are toys. Worthless stuff that can only shoot .12s are toys.
Quality guns like KWAs, Echo 1s, and VFCs don't really fit in that category. Just sporting equipment would be the best way to describe it. They're a bit too nice and powerful to be called toys.
>we hate tryhard milsim
This, 1000x this. There is literally nothing worse than the fucktards that sap the fun from the rest of everyone playing.
I find airsoft is best played with friends and only friends. Mainly cause it's based on the honor system and the milsim douche bags like the ones mentioned above don't always like leaving the field after being shot by someone in a t-shirt and cargo pants.
It's not the fact that it's airshit, the reason it's so shitty just has to do with who made it.
As >>22477219 points out, it's a cyma.
Cyma=chinese airshit that can take a beating but aren't high quality, shit still works fine though. I will agree with you, I was unsatisfied with the quality when I got it and did my best to sand it down a bit.
What about a different approach, there's a guy in Poland that made his airshit cheytac shoot approx. 1000 FPS with 0.40g bbs.
It can handle much more, so what would be the point where airshit could become lethal? (using metal bbs of course).
>It's not the fact that it's airshit, the reason it's so shitty just has to do with who made it.
I was gonna say.. the wood on my airshit AK didn't look THAT fucking bad. The ends were sealed and looked nice.
I am OP, I never intended to "convert" or implied converting a shitty metal airshit gun into a real gun.
What i was saying is why not get the demensions and all the other math, than make your own dragunov from scratch.
Mother fuck, if that dude could make an AK out of a shovel, I sure as shit can make a Dragunov from scratch.
If someone can post some Blueprints, I will do it, no bullshit.
Someone help a brother out
Do you have $795? This one is as close as you will ever get to airshit that mimics a real one.
Real Sword is a chink company that makes these, Type 56 AK's and a few other guns. The tagline with this company is that their factory is in/next-to a former state-run weapons factory that made AK's and SVD's for the Chinese army.
Some guys on Red Alliance have the T56 model and a couple have this SVD. They claim the T56 is as close to 1:1 with a real AK as you can get in the airsoft market.
>TFW Izhmash was going to into airshit
>Their initial announcement claimed they would make the most durable airshit AK's ever
>I think Obamba killed it with import bans.
>>tfw SVD-owning poorfag
Don't let her go. Don't ever let her go.
>>tfw have to buy airshit bipods and other accessories because too poor to buy real ones
I don't really see the problem. It's a fucking bipod.
If you were using airshit glass, then I would laugh. You can get a romanian PSO-1 copy for around $100
I'm not an american though. SVDs are pretty much poorfag DMRs here.
The glass on it is 6x24 POSP because poor. The bipod is every bit as good as the real one, very solid steel construction and actually the finish is even better but it still bugs me. Also I'll have to get an airshit cheek piece because I can't find a real one at a sane price anywhere.
Hell, when I tacticool the rifle I'll probably slap on airshit stock/handguard on it too, just because they are cheap and pretty good.
Well I'll get airshit handguards at least. There is a possibility that I make the stock myself if I have the time. Skeletonized and adjustable. Or if I have the money I'll make an adapter and put a collapsible AR-stock (the M4 style with a proper cheek rest) on it. Just have to make the pistol grip myself I gather.
I am so jelly. How did you get it?
I'm seriously considering blowing $5K or so on a Tigr once I've settled down and have a solid job and a good chunk of my student loans paid off.
I've said it in SVD threads before. There is nothing illegal about having someone in some ex-soviet satellite state buy SVDs, strip them, make part kits, and ship them to the US. They could make some nice profit, too. If people will pat $5K or more for a Tigr, I'd imagine that plenty of people would pay a ton for a SVD parts kit and then find someone to make the receiver.
Oh my god I can't even imagine what a shitfest that will create
>tacticool the shit out of it
>putting airsoft hand guards on it
>putting an collapsible AR stock on it
Please do this.
All right. Let's work this out, /k/.
Finlandbro here can get genuine SVDs for $1400.
SVD imports are banned from Russia because of Clinton's retarded legislation that Russia agreed to. It lays out exactly what firearms can be imported from Russia. The SVD is not one of them.
So why aren't we trying to import from other countries? What would prevent us from importing from Finland? Finbro, do you know what your laws are on exporting firearms?
How would we go about getting a bunch of SVDs imported? Resell for maybe $2000-$2500? Do we have to make them 922r compliant?
I actually did some research on the matter and it ain't too easy. We can export them around EU no problem and I kind of gave a tip to a Belgium-bro who is now waiting for his SVD. The problem is exporting this shit out of EU and into the US would cost a lot.
Btw. we have this conversation every single time I mention how "little" the guns actually cost here.
Why would it cost a lot, and how would the export process go?
I'm not surprised we have this conversation a lot, because they sell in the US for an entire 10 times what you paid for yours.
What about part kits? How hard would those be to export, or at least to send as "gifts" to your many friends in the US?
>and into the US would cost a lot.
Fucking gay. Seriously fucking gay. I am tired of reading shit like this.
I did my part. I have a US-made Mossberg 500, and I want an Garand There are no other US-made guns that interest me.
>50000 different types of AR
>If you want anything else you must be a fucking commie or something
Freedomland does have its drawbacks
because you don't into economics
>take stamped steel rifle pattern made by drunk russians/chinese serfs in an old tractor factory with a 50 ton press and hand tools
>"lol we kuld make that in murrika" -you
>source the materials; stock blanks, steel, barrels, etc.
>realize that the production cost per rifle is several hundred dollars for materials alone
>lol it'll still be less than a vepr/saiga... right?
>realize you have to pay machinists, engineers, technicians, etc. a living wage
median salary for beginning engineers is $60-80,000
machinists are $20-30 an hour or more
>realize that having a unionized worker operate a manual rivet press and use a manual lathe means production is near nonexistant vs constant costs
>look up the cost of industrial level CNC mills, lathes, water jet printers, etc.
>penis goes up inside you at the thought of spending MILLIONS of dollars to make a production line capable of shitting out dragunovs
>realize if you sold the rifle for $2000, which means a wholesale price of 1000-1500, that you would be making less than $500 per unit after production costs, with the sword of damocles of all the leases and loans for your production base and building sucking up ALL your profit for years.
look at the business model of a machine shop turned small scale firearm manufacturer; it ain't ^.
and for any big company, they know the couple thousand people who want dragunovs in the USA may buy their rifle for more money than a commieblok "sporting rifle" like a vepr, but everyone else goes to what shoots better for less money. Doesn't make business sense to tool up for a gun that most people don't care about.
Well the main problem is getting the guns. They come directly from the Russian government via Tula AFAIK and if they got a wiff that we're selling that shit forward to pale American pigs they'd shut off the SVD-valves.
Also the market here is rather small, this being a small country and all, so there isn't too many SVD going around compared to what the demand in the US would be.
Also making the parts kits can be a hassle as some of the parts that would be in the kits require a gun permit here so you can't just bag em' and send em'. The amount of paperwork you have to go through to export this shit out of the EU is pretty insane so no one individual or a small company cares to do it.
Sure it has its drawbacks and I actually think that here in Europe there are much more "rare" guns in common circulation. The only problem is you have to fill jew-paperwork to get them.
Really gun-wise the only thing we have better than you other than the readily available rare slavshit is the free-for-all suppressors thing. They sell those things like candy here.
So what parts besides the receiver does Finland consider to be restricted?
Also, you guys have got freeroam laws. Makes me pretty jelly. Maine is nice for massive wooded areas, but your terrain looks prettier, and you can go wherever you want.
I see Famases around all the time. But that's normal because I live near Paris. The soldiers patrolling public places and malls carry them. Also, I've shot one (plus an AR and assorted guns) at a gun range. Here in France. The owner was a bro, he's some kind of retired military now instructing French LEOs and SFs.
There are probably more than a few thousand slavaboos in the US. Add to this the collectors, and the people who would buy it for the novelty, and the people who think it's cool because of <insert vidya here>, you'd have a solid market. Not enough to set up a shop, no. But I'm sure there's a way to make some money here - and more importantly, get an SVD or three for yourself.
Not him, but they're pretty much unrestricted because they cut down on noise pollution so much. It's not like they make a gun more dangerous. Americans, naturally, will see them in Generic Action Movie 47: Even Bigger Explosions, directed by Michael Bay, and will scream about banning assault silencers.
>I see Famases around all the time. But that's normal because I live near Paris. The soldiers patrolling public places and malls carry them. Also, I've shot one (plus an AR and assorted guns) at a gun range. Here in France. The owner was a bro, he's some kind of retired military now instructing French LEOs and SFs.
>Not him, but they're pretty much unrestricted because they cut down on noise pollution so much. It's not like they make a gun more dangerous. Americans, naturally, will see them in Generic Action Movie 47: Even Bigger Explosions, directed by Michael Bay, and will scream about banning assault silencers.
GOD DAMN IT I HATE ALL THE FUCKING MORONS THAT I SHARE THIS COUNTRY WITH
>Right now I am sad to be an american
Certain restrictions apply to both ammunition and firearms (other than sporting shotguns) which are located or manufactured in Georgia, Kazakhstan, Kyrgystan, Moldova, Russian Federation, Turkmenistan, Ukraine or Uzbekistan and any firearm or ammunition manufactured in the former Soviet Union located anywhere in the world. Only the following stipulated firearm models or parts for these models are importable under the present agreement. 27 CFR § 447.52.
RIP, any and all hopes of a cheap SVD. Looks like shelling out thousands for a Tigr is my only hope. At least the Tigr is more accurate, by all accounts.
>barrel with a chamber
>everything that holds pressure
Those are all considered "gun parts" and require a gun permit
Yeah, the freeroam laws are awesome and I really like it here. The gun laws are a bitch but at least we can own the same stuff you guys can with the right paperwork. But still, I don't think I could live anywhere else.
Have some Finnish redneck feels
>-35deg F outside
>go shoot rabbits with SVD and laugh
>get high on Russian energy drinks and drive a snowmobile into a tree
>tfw bloody after the accident and naked in 245deg F sauna beating each other with branches with bros/gf/family/neighbors
>take a dip in an icy lake / in the snow naked afterwards
>vodka, sisu and perkele heals my wounds
Random Finnish girl in pic. Also fun fact: despite what you'd think and what even most Finns think, we are a pretty SHTF-oriented country. Like to the point where 80% of men are military trained, every bridge has built in holes for TNT, every apartment complex is required by law to have a bunker/bomb shelter with gasmasks and survival gear etc.
>go to gun store
>buy as many suppressors as I need
All you need is to prove that you own a gun of some sort. The cans aren't registered either.
>>go to gun store
>>buy as many suppressors as I need
>All you need is to prove that you own a gun of some sort. The cans aren't registered either.
Why the fuck do I keep living in Minnesota? God damn it.
22 if I'm not correct. Though I think she wouldn't like random /k/ommandos sending her stuff. As it turns out some anons from a Finnish message board already stalker her big time and she had to involve police and all.
Slight off topic, but this right here makes no sense:
For about the price of a 10/22 and some aftermarket parts, you can buy an airsoft 10/22. The fuck is this nonsense? Who the hell thinks, "hmm, I want to play pretend but instead of pretending I'm a badass operator I'll pretend I'm a first time gun owner by buying a airsoft version of a rimfire rifle"?
tfw you will never survive the apocalypse with Tania
because stalker IRL with high powered air guns would be kind of fun
the russians do airsoft larp all the time.
>just a bunch of russians in milsurp drinking vodka and fucking prostitutes
>IE what we all wish we were doing this weekend
>the russians do airsoft larp all the time.
>>just a bunch of russians in milsurp drinking vodka and fucking prostitutes
>>IE what we all wish we were doing this weekend
They have some fucking fun-looking games too. I watched some videos of some STALKER larp-style games.
>You, Freedom squad #1. Take this card. This is objective.
>You. Freedom squad #2. This is yours
>You. Duty Squad. This is your goal.
And so on. So not only are you just getting into firefights, you are having to recover certain items, find people or specifically kill someone else.
>LARP will never lose its stigma of being an activity for creepy overweight autists in the US
>you will never participate in actual buhurt like https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3WEFeQimmvk
>you will never be in an airsoft S.T.A.L.K.E.R. LARP in an abandoned industrial complex
>you will never participate in actual buhurt
my full harness of 15th century plate begs to differ anon.
That would get you kicked out of most games in the US. Around the time I graduated high school, I became obsessed with LARP, and did a lot of research on US-based games. Even fiberglass and PVC seem to be frowned upon, because of the tendency to pop out while stabbing.
It's really a pity, because I annihilated niggaz when we had swordfights with branches and sticks in the boy scouts.