Good afternoon /k/omrades,
without getting into details, i am legally barred from owning firearms by state and federal law. i am not a felon. i have never had any more trouble with the law than one speeding ticket 6 Years ago.
but nonetheless, i currently have my second amendment rights revoked. upon learning this, i immediately sold my rifles to my brother in law. while it makes me sick to be in this situation, i believe that following laws is a price we must pay for living in a civilized society. I'm working with an attorney to have this decision overturned.
so my dilemma is this. in the mean time, i feel like a sitting duck. i feel very vulnerable to home invasion. what would you guys use for home defense is you had no access to firearms? i thought of maybe getting some pepper spray, but i doubt the immediate effectiveness,and I'm sure using it inside would suck for me too.
I'm also a little bit of a prepper. currently in the process of making my bug out bag. i suppose if shit really hit thefan the laws wouldn't matter, but I'd still be behind the curve because i can't practice shooting currently.
anything i can do to protect myselfand my family without a gun?
tl;dr: protecting a house without firearms thread.
Misdemeanor domestic violence, OP beat up his boyfriend and is now barred from owning guns. Good thing too, if he can't control his temper then should be be allowed to have a gun.
My mother had me wrongly involuntarily committed to a psych ward. I knew the law, so when the police got there, i said i wanted to voluntarily "go get help". Despite my efforts and being completely voluntary and cooperative...they still recorded me as involuntary. I'm in the process of trying to get it expunged now.
And for those of you suggesting black powder, i thought of that too. So did the state. Black powder arms are considered firearms by my state. So no dice. Thanks for the idea though.
You can still own bp here, Pittsburgh bro here and afaik bp guns are weapons but only if you use them as weapons. As in ok to keep in your house but you're fucked if you use it. I'd still keep one around. Better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6. And if you aren't in a city I doubt you'd have trouble.
Alternately, build a spear gun. Pic related. Not.practical but hey not much is besides a gun.
A black powder revolver such as a Colt 1851 navy or 1860 army for home defense and an 1861 Springfield or 1853 Enfield for hunting. DO NOT keep them loaded. I'm sorry to say that leaving black powder pre-loaded in most BP firearms will eventually cause serious corrosion, especially in non-modern BP firearms.
These reproductions of BP firearms are actually not considered firearms under federal law and can be delivered directly to your door. Cabelas or Dixie gun works is usually the cheapest place to find them.
DO NOT use modern smokeless powder in these weapons unless you want to lose potentially everything below your elbow.
I appreciate the help but I've checked the laws. For the purposes of a 302 (involuntary commitment to a mental institution), black powder is considered a prohibited firearm.... crossbow move work though. I'll check into it. Thanks guys. Any more suggestions?
A bow maybe? In a home defense situation, getting acquainted with a sword or dagger might actually be useful. You know the layout of your house, so you might be able to get pretty close to an intruder.
But it's legal to get in the mail with 0 documentation dude, nobody can know unless you do something stupid. I know that may technically break the law, but if you care about that so much that you're willing to die then you're too much of a puss to have used a real gun anyway.
Pghfag again. We have person to person sales here and our laws against illegal search are legit. Just get a gun. The constitution trumps everything, especially nonsensical shit like you're trying to work around.
Or op IS really a felon.
On the chance you're not, portion: 7 years after a 302 you can get guns again. If it hasn't happened repeatedly.
I didn't want to be one of those tacticool mall ninja guys that keeps katanas hidden around the house. But if that's my only option, it is what it is. I have a machete by my bed because I'm just so uncomfortable with being completely unarmed. I don't know how much good it would be practically, but it's the best i can do i guess.
And definitely, my first priority is to get my rights back. But in the meantime i wanted something to hopefully partially compensate.
That's wrong. There are 40 year Olds getting denied by PICS because of a 302 20 years ago. There is no recourse for people in my situation besides getting it expunged on a paperwork technicality. Which is what i have a lawyer for.
Look, I know OP is supposed to be a faggot and all but you can't start this story and not give us more juicy details.
>Starship Troopers propaganda: Would you like to know more?
Well I didn't mean like...tacticool samurai swords. I meant more like...taking up lessons in sword techniques and keeping a gladius or something of that nature. Or maybe even a spear just for the sake of some more range.
>mfw imagining someone spearing a home invader with a hoplite spear
>yo tyrese lets fuck this cracka up
>oh fuck nigga he's got a fucking spear!
>Come around the corner in full centurion gear, complete with a level IV ballistic shield made to look like a tower shield and start screaming in Latin.
I would pay a large amount of money to see this on a security camera
I was under an incredible amount of stress. We got in an argument, and i snapped. I said i was going to kill myself. I didn't mean it, and i regretted it immediately after.
But she had what she needed to fuck me over. She played the concerned parent card and called the cops.
When the cop got there i was calmed down. He gave me the option to go voluntarily, and i did. Because i feared this would happen.
I made a bad mistake. I admit it. But i don't really think this justifies taking away a god given right permanently. I got mad, said something i didn't mean to the wrong person, and now I'm a second class citizen.
Theta your back story.
>I said i was going to kill myself. I didn't mean it, and i regretted it immediately after.
OP, do you know what the best predictor of whether or not someone is going to kill themselves is?
They'll fucking tell you they're going to kill themselves.
She doesn't need one. In PA all you need to 302 someone is your word.
I have the best lawyer in this state for this type of stuff. He's expensive, and i can't really afford it. ..but I'll make it work. I want my rights back.
How much is he charging? To expunge my misdemeanor to get my cc permit it looked like about 10k. And I have what that anon said op had, a retarded DV charge my ex wife hit me with 2 months after I left her.
I have a schizophrenic friend, curious for him...
PA law considers antiques (and modern percussion cap revolvers based on pre-1898 designs are "antiques" in PA) separate from other firearms, but not with regards to prohibited persons, so you're right, you're technically not allowed to have one.
However, since when you buy one you're not subject to a background check or have to go through an FFL dealer and all that, you should be able to buy one easily enough. If I were in your situation, I'd mail order one from Cabela's and keep my mouth shut about it until your attorney gets things straightened out with your status. Far from ideal, but a black powder .44 is a helluva lot better than a baseball bat and a lot of yelling.
How about a BB gun then? Not one of those 6mm plastic ball pieces of shit but something that spits copper balls? Preferably something pump action or a larger lever action with a scope. Maybe even duck tape a blade to the end to act as a bayonet?
It's not much but you can take an eye out with something like that and since most copper BB guns don't have orange tips, you might be able to scare anyone who breaks into your home if they don't have a firearm of their own.
This is of course assuming they don't consider those firearms as well for whatever reason.
Or if you want to be tacticool for some reason there's always the Crosman MK-177.
>She doesn't need one. In PA all you need to 302 someone is your word.
>Officer, I'm sorry my mother has dragged you into this, My mother has been a bit unstable recently and has recently told me she has started seeing our dead (Insert dead family member here)
>I told her she needed to get help because I care for her, and if she didn't do it herself, I would do it for her.
>I guess this is her trying to discredit me because she REALLY doesn't want to get help.
>Who do I need to talk to in order to get her the help she obviously needs?
You could move. If you were caught using something like a knife or sword or something that could be spun as "crazy", you definitely will never be able to ever have a gun again. So just move to a state where you can have a gun, and don't be so stupid next time.
>why do we even believe in anything everything's stupid
>we should just have, like, nothing y'know
>my generation just gets it
I don't think I'm being irrational. I acknowledge that i fucked up. Bad. I'm just trying to legally restore my rights. I don't think that one mistake should bar a person from exercising their second amendment rights.
I'm not paranoid, i just believe in a social contract. I live in this society,so it's my duty to obey the laws even if i disagree with then.
And I'm not sure why you think I'm retarded. I'm going about this in the most professional legal way i can think of.
But by all means, flame on.
>Please, what is the difference in a god given right and a government sanctioned privilege?
A God-given right is inalienable
A government sanctioned privilege is what the government will allow you to do
You have a God-given right to life
If you are homosexual and I pick you up in place you in Saudi Arabia you do not lose this God-given right to life simply because the government does not permit you to live
When you get banned from firearms in PA, you are banned federally as well. There is literally no state when i can legally possess a firearm.
That's the problem with PA legislation add it stands. There is an Avenue to restore state rights, but no federal one.
So you think the crackhead that you wish to defend against is restrained by that social contract? Just saying, social contract or your life and you'd rather maintain the status quo. Tell me that's not irrational and retarded. I assumed paranoia because I assumed it was because you're afraid of the law.
You're right. And i completely understand and agree with you. But if i shot an intruder with my right revoked like this, i would be charged with a felony. I don't know that life in prison is any better than death.
But thinking about it, I'd rather go to jail then have a loved one hurt or killed. I'll consider it. Thanks bud
Sucks for you, I got a DV conviction and I can still own a gun here. Can't get my cc permit but apparently that's not too bad. My wife got 302ed and she has some of my guns, and the cops have even inspected them to make sure they were safe and let her keep them. So apparently my ex is a wizard.
there have been cases where a loaded 100+ year old black powder revolver was found in a barn and it was able to fire. You can store a black powder revolver loaded...if it's for home defense, you're not going to be wanting to fuck around with a powder flask and patches and putting the right cap on the right nipple and shit.
>manipulative psychopath scary
No, it's just run of the mill deflection/redirection.
Throw some confusion into the works and the cops simply can't do anything either way and then nothing happens.
I'm sorry you're just too stupid to think of something so simple.
Yeah. It's kinda fucked up. If i had a felony instead of a 302 it would be possible to get my rights restored. I guess this situation had been overlooked by lawmakers.
Good for your wife though, glad to hear it.
Charged is not convicted bro. You may spend a day or 2 in jail before you can post bond or bail out but if it's justifiable you wouldn't even get justifiable hom in PA just manslaughter. I wouldn't trust me because 4chan but I've had a lot of experience with the legal system. And this is urban, if outside heavily populated areas I wouldn't even give a fuck.
>If i had a felony instead of a 302 it would be possible to get my rights restored. I guess this situation had been overlooked by lawmakers.
No, felons have some hope of someday being normal. People who are mentally unstable are dangerous forever.
yeah, you could go that route...and then the cop would take you in involuntarily because he doesn't know who's telling the truth and it's his ass if he leaves and an hour later you murder your family and an hero.
Hydraulic jack handle.
Any knife of legal length.
Large bore airgun.
Taser (Not a purse stun gun you faggot, an actual taser.)
Black powder firearms possibly, but note that third word in the sentence. How bad a day does some jewsecutor think you should have?
Good luck getting this overturned, and then suing and disowning your mother.
Not really. Google 3 felonies a day, somebody wrote a book about how the average person is a criminal many times over without noticing.
Really if you think getting caught with a.couple of joints or something means you should have your rights taken away, you're part of the problem. If someone can get multiple duis and keep their guns (routine in PA) IDK why you have an issue with ex.cons who have served their punishments owning guns.
I'd rather keep them away from the mentally ill. But in the case of crazies I think you should be able to get q clearance from mental health professional instead of having to shell out thousands to a kike lawyer.
Jesus christ another freaky post, and the whole mother angle too.
Stay away from guns you fucking maniac. Better yet just kill yourself, you're going to end up killing so many people.
You should kill yourself though. Imagine the relief your mother would feel, knowing she can finally sleep soundly not having to wonder if you're going to burst into her bedroom and pump her full of lead.
Nah. I've been clinically depressed before, but i still never understood how people could kill themselves. Through cognitive behavioral therapy i gave learned how i was depressing myself though my tainted thought processes. I was never a danger to myself or others, i just got overwhelmed and said something i didn't mean.
I just want to clarify, i don't blame my mom. If i hadn't said that, i wouldn't be in this position. I acknowledge that this is my fault. I'm just trying to fix it now.
Anyone else have any suggestions?
If this is OP or even If not, this is correct. Pittsburgh tag reporting again with my misdemeanors for DV and carrying without a permit. I have friends who are felons (drugs) and who have been 302ed and I can honestly say as an nra member and life long responsible gun owner that at least 50 percent of those I know who can't buy guns with a background check should be able to and the rest could get them anyway.
>Throw some confusion into the works and the cops simply can't do anything either way and then nothing happens.
That's not even close to being true. Throw a lot of confusion around, and they'll take you AND your mom in and let the shrinks sort it out.
>Black powder becomes unstable with age.
We're talking about a few months, maybe a couple of years. And we're also talking about modern black powder substitute, not black powder itself.
Yeah, i think this is the most likely outcome.
This is OP, i have a question. I'm right in thinking that mace/pepper spray would be a bad home defense option, right?
I seem to remember a comedy where someone uses pepper spray in an elevator and everyone feels it, comes out coughing and stuff. That's be the case is i used in my house, right?
Pghfag once again op and yes this is true for the most part. But the last OC spray I had was that orange police shit and it was more like a gel. I always test shit on myself and when I tried this there were 2 other people in the room and they were ok. I spent 25 minutes puking and crying and coughing but the 110lb girl that was in the room was ok. As long as you make sure your OC is nice and thick (buy a couple and spray some melons if you're a bitch, but don't be a bitch, feel it if you're going to use it on someone) you'll be good if you stay out of really close quarters.
A lot of the older stuff is thinner and DOES aerosolise but it's weaker than the thick, sticky stuff with orange dye.
I AM trying to be helpful even if I have contempt for your attitude. It's probably because I DID get judged by 12 instead of carried by 6 and it wasn't worth it..
I'm sorry if i made you mad, i didn't mean to. Im not trying to have an attitude. It's just frightening that my right got taken away so easily. Where do they draw the line then with who "shouldn't own guns"?i feel like this is a slippery slope, and people in my situation are just the first to be raped like this.
But by all means, please tell me, what do i have an attitude about? I want to fix that ASAP. Because with the legal fight in front of me, i can't afford an attitude.
Thanks in advance.
And thanks to everyone who replied
I didn't mean a cocky attitude, I meant your submissive attitude. You just demonstrated it again with that post. If you need lessons let me know, I've been through a divorce, kicked a 12 year heroin addiction, beat all charges during 4 trials (none drug related) and rebuilt my body to be a boss. And just started classes to weld high pressure gas line on oil rigs and in nuclear power plant cooling systems. Also an amateur gun Smith and fucking awesome in general. Fuck the police, it's only illegal if you get caught. Heroin 12 years and never got arrested til I got clean, that was all for trumped up violence which was not true and concealed carry.so license which was true.
And I guess the 2 assaults were true as well but I was goaded and provoked.
Bottom line come at me bro. Or learn from me bro. Resilience.
You have no idea how much this pisses me off. Big brother taking my inalienable rights with no due process. It infuriates me. I was made a second class citizen because I made one mistake.
But that being said, being labeled as a hot head would only be a disservice to my cause. Getting this expunged will require me to be civil and level headed.
I can't afford for it to look like i shouldn't be trusted with guns. Because even though it's my human right, the government apparently has the ability to take it from me.
You have no idea how upset i am. How violated i feel. How much i want to march on Washington right now and sit in front of the white house with a sign until I'm heard. But none of those things would help my case right now. So i must remain level headed.
But that all being said, I'm always open to suggestions. That's why i posted this thread. So please, give me any insight you can.
>all this irrelevant shit
>look at me i might as well be a tripfaggot
>4chan is my journal
>i have feelings
fuck you, try not being a fucking bitch to start, that's a good into defense
No you're obviously a giant pussy still. Who gets outsmarted/BTFO'd by their mom. Jesus man up. Do you still live with her or something? Why are you so afraid of just buying a new gun FTF or mail order black powder.
"Social contract arguments typically posit that individuals have consented, either explicitly or tacitly, to surrender some of their freedoms and submit to the authority of the ruler or magistrate"
Well OP, since you're so submissive, to your mom, the police, the goverment. It's time for you to put your full faith in this social contract you love so much. Why use anything to defend yourself since you lost your right to defend yourself, the only thing you need is "911." Now is truly the time to test your faith and the other parties commitment to this contract you love so much.
So let me get this straight. You consider yourself involved in a contract with a party who refuses to keep their end of the deal. What do you get out of this contract that you are so eager to point to?
Also, never ever ever ever ever trust a cop. Why didn't you just lie and say your mom was a little unstable but you are concerned about her and dont want her taken away. The cop would have either left or stayed there and watched you two argue until someone blew their lid, and he would have taken them.
Because it's not my mom's fault i made a mistake. Lying to the cop would have led themto pressing charges against her for misuse of public law enforcement.
I knew then, and i know now, that i caused this. But i am also trying to restore my rights that were illegally taken from me.
It's not like the movies. You're sleeping in your bed, snoring, your family is across the house in their room. BOOM. You wake up. Look around. What was thBOOM. Shits real now. Three million things are going on in your head. Who's home, which rooms are they in, where's my glasses.BOOM. third strike the door isn't gonna hold much more. You flip the light on back against a wall and take aim right at the door.
Nothing. Those dumb niggers ran away. The light scared them away.
They don't have to, but most often they will. And i don't blame them. If they give everyone in the house the a OK, and something happens, they are legally liable. It's easier and safer for them to 302 someone even if they don't need it.
That's the thing. This happened years ago. I didn't receive anytreatment while i was there, and there was no plan for treatment afterwards. They gave me a paper with some therapists in it and said "call if you want". So i guess yes. Why?
I don't believe so. I saw a doctor for maybe 5-10 minutes in the whole time i was there. I came in on a Friday, and was released on Monday. They said that the reason i had to stay until Monday wad "they don't do discharges on weekends". They gave me one antidepressant pill during my stay. Why do you ask?
Because it sounds like a case of 18 Pa.C.S. § 6105 (c) (4) -
A person who has been adjudicated as an incompetent or who has been involuntarily committed to a mental institution for inpatient care and treatment under section 302, 303 or 304 of the provisions of the act of July 9, 1976 (P.L. 817, No. 143), [FN2] known as the Mental Health Procedures Act. This paragraph shall not apply to any proceeding under section 302 of the Mental Health Procedures Act unless the examining physician has issued a certification that inpatient care was necessary or that the person was committable.
In other words, you were held for an involuntary evaluation, not an involuntary commitment. This would not disqualify you from owning firearms.
Continue on your course with a lawyer, but he will probably tell you the same thing. Get the medical records of the "treating" physician and if need be, your lawyer can have the psychologist/psychiatrist write you a letter of clearance considering you are not, nor were ever, under a course of treatment or had any mandatory monitoring by the metal facility.
I really hope that's the case, but the lady at the medical records department said that the 302 paper was signed "in need of medical treatment". I don't understand how they could sign that and then just release me without treatment though. I'm currently waiting for my records in the mail so i can take a closer look at then and then take them up to my lawyer.
I really hope you're right though. Any other thoughts?
so let me get this straight
>argue with mom
>threaten to kill self in your anger
> mom sends you to psych ward, you go voluntary but odds are they would send you there anyway at your moms command
my mom used to be a paranoid bitch, she threatened to call the cops on me saying i was using drugs
she kicked me out of the house and blamed me making no effort to help me, she spread stories of my father that turned out not true (divorce said no trash talking anyway) and any time i walked outside she wanted every detail of what i was doing
so if its your mom being paranoid i feel ya, if you have a record of threatening though then well....
Nah, like i said before, i always used to be a pretty sad guy. But i never understood why people would kill themselves. It definitely can't get better if you're dead. That was the first and only time i threatened it. I just got too angry/stressed i guess
Thanks for the advice
I mean like i said, it was my fault. I shouldn't have said that. But i hope i can clear it up easily enough. Hell, maybe I'll get the paperwork and there won't be any problem at all!
so, pretty much isolated incident? then yeah talk with lawyer, get yer rights back. Normally i wouldnt support you getting your guns, but I've recently met a fellow who was suicidal till he actually attempted it. he went to the hospital and came out a changed man. met him at a range using a borrowed gun. turned out to be a great gun very optimistic and happy now but he cannot own guns since he attempted suicide when he was 17, just a hard time in his life and fucked it up for the rest of his life
Thanks bud, definitely appreciate the good will. Yeah, it being that bad was definitely am isolated incident.
It's kinda good in a way. I was depressed for so long, but then i got help. Everything now just seems so amazing. I know it sounds Gay but i wake up every day excited to be here. Even if I'm just going to work or something. Because a lot of people don't even get that.
I really hope i can get my gun rights back. I always loved shooting.
No, you shouldn't have, but it also sounds like your mother overreacted as well.
Hopefully there is no need for a lawyer, however, even if you do need one it sounds like it is going to be an easy case for expungement considering the lack of ongoing problems and no supervision and treatment of any kind.