So, /k/, I just got my new knives in the mail. I got a Cold Steel Chaos (pictured) and their OSS for $122.59. MSRP for them is $99.99 and $114.99, respectively. How'd I do?
I was really impressed by how solid it is. I thought the aluminum handle on the Chaos was going to be two pieces bolted together, and was pleasantly surprised to discover that the handle is a single piece.
The blade is what they call "SK-5", which is really just a plain carbon steel in the neighborhood of 1085. The data I could find pegs SK-5 at being .84-.85 percent carbon.
Yesterday they delivered my Gerber auto tanto blade and G10 handles. I spent most of the afternoon sitting on the couch watching DVDs and pushing the button.
Good job Caedes! If you took advantage of the blackfriday deals you probably could have gotten both for less then 100$ on amazon. I own both of these, really nice blades. I think the oss for the price is one of the best fighters out there. It's also only about 8oz. The chaos is quite nice too but I feel it's a little bulky overall and the sheath could have more retention like the oss. Either one would be a nice defensive option or pigsticker.
I have a Cold Steel Chaos, and have for several years.
It's an excellent full sized carry knife; sturdy, large, providing excellent hand protection, and leaving you with some very viable non lethal options (the glass breaker/skull breaker and the knuckle guard). The sheathe also has break away snaps in case you're having a hard time drawing it under stress; you can just yank the whole assembly off your belt and the sheathed knife + guard makes a brutal baton, and if they grab it to try and stop you it becomes a very big knife.
CRKT, SOG, Cold Steel, and Browning Black Label are pretty much the best 'budget performance' knives that have a good variety of designs that maintain reasonable functionality.
A step up in QC from there always comes at a pretty big increment of price; Spyderco, Benchmade, Falkenkniven, etc. These knives will all out last and out perform the first company's offerings by 75% or so, but usually at 250% the cost.
That's exactly my point Bro.Not too sure about the outperform by 75%, I think that depends entirely on the individual knife in question and the steel and materials in said knife.For example, I don't think the tri-ad lock will be outperformed by any lock those companies use except perhaps the axis lock of the same dimensions. I don't think the average folder of those companies would outlast the spartan for another example.
Their machetes and throwing knives are OK, not much else.
Seen this picture, the guys in the picture were batoning the bowie through a log and were hammering on the handle itself. The natchez bowie is designed purely as a fighting knife and has a cable-tang(on purpose).I think they were trying to be innovative with that, I think they should have just went fulltang but I digress. Essentially this would be the same thing as batoning a log with a medieval dagger . If someone does want to baton through logs, there are plenty of other knives on Coldsteel's line up that are more appropriate for that like Chaos tanto in 5mm 3V steel.
Many knives have broken through batoning from different companies including ka-bar.
Batoning in general is a bad measure of the quality of a knife, but:
>The natchez bowie is designed purely as a fighting knife
Is a copout, especially for a knife that costs as much as a Junglas.
I know it may seem that way but look at the construction of the junglas. 3/16 1095, fulltang billed a survival knife. I don't really see it being a copout if it was design ON PURPOSE to have a construction that differs from the norm hard-use survival blade.Imo, you can't fault a knife designed for a certain purpose to fail at something it wasn't designed to do.Especially when it was being struck on the handle, where the cable is affixed.
I think they were just trying to be innovative in trying to bring something unique to it's construction. I have read it is to improve it's balance and to mitigate shock to the hand when the blade strikes something. Why would someone use something intended as a fighting knife (yes I know it's a not a realistic premise but people by swords,spears,etc too) as a bushcraft knife. Would you hold the same opinion if a sword were to have failed batoning through a massive log? How about a fancy japanese damascus butcher knife?
Brb using a giant bowie with a full flat grind with a very pronounced clip point for bush craft.
Any manufacturer could defend any knife's lack of durability with "it's just a fighting knife."
However, the Natchez bowie is thick and supposedly made of some super steel. Unless there's verifiable data that this cable tang provides real benefits it seems like it's just an excuse for CS to manufacture weaker products at higher prices.
Cutting through people puts more than a little stress on weaponry.
>Why would someone
Beats me, give me an axe if you want me to split firewood, but I'm more curios as to what fucking advantage a cable tang could possibly bring. Of course, fighting can put quite a bit of stress on somethign too, with severe consequences for any failure.
>I have read it is to improve it's balance
Just shave a bit of brass off of that pommel instead, it'll help bring in the mass towards the centre of gravity while you're at it.
>and to mitigate shock to the hand when the blade strikes something
Looks like it manages that quite well, thanks to the the grip acting like a sacrificial buffer and disintegrating.
Or it could just have been that they found a guy selling wire cheaper than threaded rods.
>using tools for the actual purpose that they were designed for
>not being the retarded equivalent to a caveman using a rock as an IUD
I seriously hope you guys do do this
lol except the fact that it would be a lot easier and cheaper to just stick some micarta slabs and pins through a fulltang then it would be to use a cable tang.
Batoning imparts force in a different way then actual chopping or slashing would. Many knives even with different types of tangs have failed during the act.
The natchez is 5/16" thick yes but that is not as thick as most katanas are and some medieval swords as well.But you wouldn't ask that they baton right? It's not made of super steel, It's sk5(now o1) and san mai 3 (laminated vg1) neither of these supersteels like 3V.
Slashing and stabbing through people is a lot easier on any knife then almost any other wood's chore. Ya know those videos where they chop through pigs and giant pieces of rope? That isn't smoke and mirrors.
Grinds and geometry also play a big part in how a knife performs in different tasks.The natchez bowie is designed for pure cutting and stabbing. Not as much material behind the edge as the junglas as previously mentioned.
They probably wont out last it, but they'll probably hold their edge better, or chip less, or not bend as easily or whatever.
I just buy the 'cheaper' knifes in multiples and replace them when there are issues. I own lots of SOG, CRKT, Cold Steel, and Black labels.
>lol except the fact that it would be a lot easier and cheaper to just stick some micarta slabs and pins through a fulltang then it would be to use a cable tang.
It'd be better too.
>Batoning imparts force in a different way then actual chopping or slashing would. Many knives even with different types of tangs have failed during the act.
I've already said that batoning is generally a bad measure of a blade's quality.
>The natchez is 5/16" thick yes but that is not as thick as most katanas are and some medieval swords as well.But you wouldn't ask that they baton right?
Why would you baton with something you can chop with?
>Slashing and stabbing through people is a lot easier on any knife then almost any other wood's chore. Ya know those videos where they chop through pigs and giant pieces of rope? That isn't smoke and mirrors.
Your defense of CS is that the videos that show that their blades are capable of handling blade-related tasks isn't smoke and mirrors? Also, staged videos generally aren't a good measure of durability.
>Grinds and geometry also play a big part in how a knife performs in different tasks.The natchez bowie is designed for pure cutting and stabbing. Not as much material behind the edge as the junglas as previously mentioned.
That doesn't mean much when routinely use similar designs for hard tasks.
For everything you've said in defense of this knife I can say this:
People have been abusing the fuck out of the Ontario marine raider bowie for a long time. It's a similar blade shape and is also not full tang. It's 1/3 the price of the Natchez bowie.
CS apparently has to get up to $150 with a snowflake tang design to make a balanced knife and it can't handle the abuse that cheaper knives can.
Good Points and I never said it was a good idea to try out this different tang construction. But I'd rather not keep repeating myself as to the other points.
What I will say is that some random picture of a failure of a knife when being used to baton through a giant log improperly doesn't mean all that much. Who knows if that knife was defective? How many other natchez bowies have survived it without breaking? Who knows what exactly those dudes were doing with it? All I know is that I own both the natchez in san mai 3 and the laredo in sk5. The laredo has the same construction and I have chopped through a lot of wood with it with no problem.
>it would be a lot easier and cheaper to just stick some micarta slabs and pins through a full tang then it would be to use a cable tang
While it would lead to a vastly superior knife it would be harder to grind the tang and make sure scales are shaped well and fit well than it would be to grind a stub tang and weld something on then use a simple wood handle to hide it
>Not as much material behind the edge as the junglas as previously mentioned.
The Natchez bowie is like 3mm thicker, and the Junglas doesn't reach max thickness until near the spine.
So by the logic of the comparison to the Ontario sp10. It is also superior to most any katana or medieval sword because it can be bought for a fraction of the price and abused in a way they can't. That's essentially the argument.
In regards to the "Staged" videos, It's actually not only their videos. Plenty of videos up of normal people using the coldsteel bowies to chop through wood(and bamboo) and performing tameshigiri, and not to mention the people that have used them to dispatch hogs.
It's a knife designed for a specific purpose, regardless of how fantasy the situation may be.Or how unlikely.Like a sword or other period weapon in modern times.
I've seen broken spydercos,benchmades,kabars,etc.Not really sure why that picture is given so much credence.
All utility knife steels. Will stab, but nothing beats the cost/benefit analysis of AUS8
sharpens in seconds
hold an edge good enough
can be sharpened fine enough to split atoms
amazing rust resistance
None of the others fit the criteria.
Buy a real fighting dagger. Choose AUS8 steel.
This is a quote from a CS representative in regards to this style of tang.Of course make of it what you will.
"The cable tang in our Laredo and Natchez Bowie knives is used primarily as a shock distributor. The cable acts almost like a guitar string and sends shock out the end of the pommel, rather than into the handle and subsequintly the hand. This promotes longer life in the handle, and makes it less likely that the user will take shock directly into his hand, allowing him to maintain a more secure grip. Since these are primarily designed as fighting bowies, a secure grip is extrelemy important. If you have watched Lynn's video on using the bowie's handguard for defense, then you can see how much shock this knife may take in a combat situation.
It also makes the knife a little blade heavy, which moves the "sweet spot" of the knife further fvorward and gives it greater impact.
Manufacturing the knife with the cable tang is a more expensive process than simply making the knife with a full tang, so this is done with intent and design. It is definately not a cost-saving effort. We have never seen a cable tang break under normal usage. "
Are you sure that a "katana or mediaval sword" wouldn't hold up to that?
Are you sure that me comparing 2 bowies is comparable to me comparing a bowie and some swords?
>In regards to the "Staged" videos, It's actually not only their videos. Plenty of videos up of normal people using the coldsteel bowies to chop through wood(and bamboo) and performing tameshigiri, and not to mention the people that have used them to dispatch hogs.
None of which is remarkable.
>I've seen broken spydercos,benchmades,kabars,etc.Not really sure why that picture is given so much credence.
Because when you see pics from those other companies you're not seeing pics of triple-digit purchases being marketed as "the world's strongest, sharpest knives."
If CS makes a knife and you can get a similar knife from Ontario for 1/3 the price then:
>They make some neat budget shit, all stigma aside. It's their pricy stuff that's not worth it.
>The cable acts almost like a guitar string and sends shock out the end of the pommel, rather than into the handle and subsequintly the hand.
You could fertilize a field with this.
To actually reduce felt shock, you fix the vibrational nodes so that the one corresponding to your hand is where the knife will experience the greatest impacts.
>It also makes the knife a little blade heavy, which moves the "sweet spot" of the knife further fvorward and gives it greater impact.
If they wanted less mass in the ass, just carve off a bit of that pommel.
They could have done a good job on balance and vibrations just by designing the blade properly. But that would probably have required them to use thicker and/or wider bar stock and more machining, so fuck that, welding on a bit of cable means better profit margins, and while everyone knows a welded on threaded rod is shit, we can bullshit some gullible fucks into thinking the cable is a good thing.
Imo, in this case, yes, you are making a comparison like that. Those are blades designed for a specific purpose of cutting flesh and bone as is the natchez. Am I sure they wouldn't stand up to be batoned? That shouldn't be the question. The question should be IF they were to fail at that, would you hold that failure to the same regard.
I would say that many modern made swords probably would but I wouldn't know as I haven't batoned my swords and I doubt many people do. They aren't designed for it, just like the natchez isn't.
I never said those videos are remarkable, I'm saying that they are analogues for human flesh and bone though. The samurai used tatami mats and bamboo to simulate human bodies.I'm just saying that the CS videos aren't smoke and mirrors.
Plenty of triple digit knives with serious marketing behind them can't take the same abuse look up the whole chris reeve green beret fiasco. In that case it might be even worse as it was actually meant to be a hard-use knife, It even had the full tang,micarta pin handle set up you like.
Look, if you don't like CS that's all good. But using random isolated incidents and pictures of vague circumstances to trash things you have no experience with is ignorant.
Keep an open mind about this stuff.
Brb this katana can't chop down a tree without the handle failing and coming apart, bad design.( In before it's only made of 2 panels of wood, 2 bamboo pegs, rayskin and cotton)
Brb this 1500's period warhammer can't hammer nails very well(rivited langets,small head, spike on the top and back, not flat-faced)
I bought it largely because I have a weakness for goofy knives. I've got a bunch of SOGs and a few of the better Gerbers for practicality. My new knives look goofy next to things like my Opinel No. 8 and Higonokami.
Also, this is me: >>24178255
I'll second this. SOG is my go-to brand for EDC, with other higher-end brands being purchased if I don't have something dumb I'm lusting after. Cold Steel. for me, is like a good, but really dumb friend. Dumber than a box of rocks, but fun as shit.
I'm actually a fan of their Kraton handles. I've re handled a Kobun or two, and seen the tangs on most of the Kraton'd knives, and they are all much more substantial than what is shown in your pic.
My peace on Cold Steel: Buy on Amazon or some other big-box site. Their awesome if you can get them cheap, definitely not worth MSRP, but the best budget knife you can get if you shop around.
I got them both as fuck around knives, but also to carry when I go onnatrail, as the Asheville hippies get nervous when they see a gun. Knives on the trail are always fun for conversation, and I like meeting other forest-folk.
have you sharpened/attempted to sharpen it yet.
how is the edge retention and sharpness. every cold steel knife I own (a few good and expensive, a few budget) have shit/10 edge retention.
the only CS knife I've considered buying in a long time is the OSS asa beater belt knife.
>unique in it's ability to allow CS to use a much shorter billet of their magic steel to save money on a $300msrp knife.
only reason is to save money on production costs, hoping that it is never put through it's paces (like 99.99% of CS products.)
I've cut down a fucking tree with my buck 119. stick tang master race.
This is what CS Kraton handled tangs look like.
My OSS, Chaos, Kobun, and Kukri machete all came shaving sharp from the factory, and I've only had the OSS for a day. The AUS-8A they use is nice. The diff between AUS-8 and AUS-8A is actually pretty big. 8A has .5% less chromium, .5% more carbon, plus the added bonus of .4% tungsten and .1-.3% molybdenum.
I also love all my Bucks. The knives are alright, but the warranty makes them god-tier.
>My OSS, Chaos, Kobun, and Kukri machete all came shaving sharp from the factory
>and then became butter knife dull after cutting up their own box and a few sheets of printer paper
>and was for the most part unsharpenable back to factory sharp/beyond and dulled quickly yet again
I know how CS knives behave in the field. I'm hoping the only one I may still be interested in isn't cut from the same cloth.
the machetes are shipped dull as fuck and painted, but with a few passes of a file are passable machetes. they are also outsourced and made in south africa by another company and sold under the cold steel name.
It keeps an edge longer and is more resistant to wear. It is also slightly harder to sharpen, but that's really the only downside. It's not a super-steel by any stretch, but the addition of tungsten, in my experience with both steels, makes a world of difference in terms of edge retention and wear-and-tear.
That said, you are kinda right. They are otherwise rather similar, but 8A BTFOs baseline 8 with a good heat treat.
My machete did dull quickly, but it was the only one I've had trouble with in terms of the edge. That's 1055 carbon for you, though. I was actually bummed that my particular machete was as sharp as it was. I got some minor edge rolling, but I took my files to it for a bit, convexed the edge, and never had another problem with it.
CS could use better QC though. People either love their shit or hate it, and most of the complaints I've seen revolve around spotty QC. I think I've been lucky so far, but I'm sure I'll get a lemon at some point.
What knife are you interested in? I may have experience with it.
The newer machetes seem to be shipped with a better edge now. I don't know if this extends to their older line though I remember a couple years back needing to do some serious edge work on the magnum kukri machete.
The buck110 is not a fighting knife and is not marketed that way.It has a rat tail tang and a substantial one at that. It's grind and overall geometry is probably geared that way. I found a picture of another buck broken, the 124 which has an even more substantial tang then the 110.
This one was broken just by trying to hammer the pins out.
Point is any knife can break, especially if it's tang and/or geometry is not geared toward certain tasks.
For all we know that buck maybe was a lemon, maybe the CS bowie in that picture was a lemon too but meh.
Even the bk9 is not safe from breaking
Broken trying to baton a piece of kindling!
Lol naw there is examples coldsteel Aus8's breaking bro. Check the kobun.
With a bad temper. High carbon steels can be very tough, if hardened and tempered properly, and AUS-8/8A can be brittle as fuck if done poorly.
See my pic.
Like I've been saying, AUS-8 and AUS-8A are not super-steels by any stretch. Temper is king.
ABS Master Smiths: http://www.americanbladesmith.com/index.php?section=users&subsection=list_user&fk_group_id=5
ABS Journeymen: http://www.americanbladesmith.com/index.php?section=users&subsection=list_user&fk_group_id=6
Imo, I don't think any of the big brands really have inconsistent heat treatment(aside from mtech and shit like that). I just think that these random,rare isolated incidents of breaking are given more credence then they should. Then people use it to push something else or push against something else.
Poople have used all these brands for a long time and have been successful with them.