>The Chinese Navy is preparing to commission three new, nuclear-powered attack submarines with a vertical launching system able to fire supersonic anti-ship missiles, a report from China Daily said.
>The China Central Television showed satellite pictures earlier this week of the three submarines anchored at an unidentified port claiming that the new submarines are China’s most advanced Type-093G attack submarines.
>“The Type-093G is reported to be an upgraded version of Type-093, China’s second-generation nuclear-powered attack submarine, which entered active service several years ago. With a teardrop hull, the submarine is longer than its predecessor and has a vertical launching system,” according to the China Daily report.
ITS OVER BURGERLAND IS FINISHED
>China announces they may, at some point -soon-, START to build ONLY THREE nuke attack subs
>that supposedly have roughly the same capabilities as our shelved Sea Wolves, which have been obsolete for 2 decades plus
>OMG ITS OVER GUISE, THOSE THREE SUBS THAT HAVEN'T EVEN BEEN BUILT YET WILL TOTALLY #REKT THE ENTIRETY OF THE US NAVY!
god, chinaboos are fucking worse than slavaboos.
The economy of China has always been fucked in the ass. As long as they can keep the peasants from starving and keep getting the cash rolling in to the centralized administration areas, they're fine. It's only when they fail to do this that there's issues. To do this, they need to assert political influence over overseas agricultural regions, ie Africa and have a fairly free rein in their dealings there. To do this, they need to deter other nations naval forces, in particular the US.
Yes, it's probably going to have a USN submarine up its ass its entire life but it's still a deployment system that will have a good chance of succeeding in delivering its payload even if its sunk. Remember, it's not about defeating the USN persay, it's making it too expensive for the US to counter them on the open field while having a believable way to strike at them. The USN will win, but look at the bootyblasting less than 10,000 casualties over a decade caused politically. Entire ships going down over China having a bit of control over Ugandan grain production? That'll end a presidency in this climate and may escalate into a war that while the US can win it, will leave it with massive casualties, stretched economy and having to now occupy at least the coastline of China. So no US government is going to openly perform such a move.
Bubblehead here, you are now aware that all three Seawolf class boats are still in operation, and are in some ways even more capable in blue water SSN ops than Virginia class boats.
They were, unfortunately, extremely expensive and have served as a technology development class for building the cheaper but still extremely capable Virginia boats; the Seawolves still serve (out of Bangor) and are still the most capable blue water SSNs in existence, at least until this latest block of Virginias.
Seawolves are every bit as quiet as Virginias, and the Jimmy Carter is still the most capable special operations/intelligence platform in the SSN fleet.
The subs in question.
Satellite pictures from 2014: 3rd 093G still in the dry-dock fitting out.
>Except for the Virginia class submarine that is probably shadowing it.
Nothing that keeps the Chinese submarine heading out into the open to just regularily and silently drop a wake homing mines behind herself.
Burger will get rekt by default.
earlier spy shots indicate a Virginia-styled sail with blended roots.
So, China's SSN count would be;
2x original Type 093 Shang-class SSN
3x improved Type 093G Shang-class SSGN
5x Type 094 Jin-class SSBN (3 of them being improved boats)
5x Type 091 Han-class SSN (soon to be retired)
1x Type 092 Xia-class SSBN (retired)
This from the only permanent member of the UN security council that as yet HASN'T MANAGED A SINGLE SSBN DEPLOYMENT CRUISE.
Think about that for a minute. In the 50+ years the US, Russia, France and GB have been operating SSBNs and running more or less constant patrols, China has yet to manage a single one.
Their sub ops fleet experience is so far behind the curve, they might as well be using early 1960's USN personnel.
Not a Chinese here, but I still disagree.
The 094 SSBNs are going out the Bashi-channel south of Taiwan for quite a while now.
The VP-5 Mad Foxes are usually successfully tracking them, expect for the last time when Chinese fighter jets buzzed them off with that barrel roll over them.
Sucks to be Chinese. They are basically imprisoned within the 1st island chain, with only very few places to sail out into the west pacific undetected.
>This from the only permanent member of the UN security council that as yet HASN'T MANAGED A SINGLE SSBN DEPLOYMENT CRUISE.
Interesting, because it's wrong. But I guess whatever works for you.
>The VP-5 Mad Foxes are usually successfully tracking them
Maybe I'm overlooking it but what in the link confirms your statement?
>builds spy satellites to post spy pictures of their own manlet military
>see they do care the americans are spying on our high tech submarine
>err no we're not, we seriously don't give a fuck
lol somebody has small dick issues.
There's nothing retarded about it nigger. The Chinese are building subs that are literally decades behind. They even admit that they don't approach the levels of American, Russian, and British nuclear subs.
>“What they are doing with patrols is just the tip of the iceberg. It is not just the number of the ships, but within five to eight years they will have about 82 submarines in the Asia Pacific area and we will have about 32 to 34,” he told Military.com last summer.
I've seen the Muslim population of the US estimated from between 3 million to 10 million. The problem is that we don't know how many people are Muslim in the US because there's no accurate figures unlike the UK which counts religion on their census.
It's probably slightly higher in terms of percentage but in terms of numbers, the US is almost certainly higher aside from the most conservative estimates.
>It's only 3 decades late to the party.
That doesn't even make sense. Or are you implying that the first batch of F-16 had things like AESA radar, DSI intake, FLIR or electronic warning or countermeasures pod atop the vertical stabiliser. Stuff like FLIR is something that even the lastest F-16s are missing (or even AESA radar).
Please cite a single source claiming that the Chinese have successfully finished a deterrence patrol with either their old single Xia or their new Type 094s. The Xia was such a shit pile they never got the ship and indigenous SLBMs working together properly, and the Type 094s are to this day still testing the SLBMs slated for them.
China operated and produced Su-27 since the early 90s.
And the 27 years claim is nonsensical. The actual produced muh 4gen aircraft are light years ahead whatever was produced in the 70s.
You went full retard.
I like how they are installing a conformal sonar array. One of the first things the Russian navy did when they actually had resources beyond just maintaining their ships, was to develop spherical sonar arrays and they were ten years behind us.
The PLAAF still fields over 500 J-7s. For instance, the 15th Fighter Division, based in Beijing, is equipped exclusively with them.
>tfw the US had that tech back in the 90's
go back to /pol/ faggot
I'm sorry, are you suggesting that TWO out of THREE fighter divisions in the Beijing Military District are RESERVE DIVISIONS?
You do realize what a complete fucking moron you look like, right?
>Beijing Military Distric
>it's job protecting the Nothern part of China against the large and powerful Mongolia!
And you explain the operation of J-7s in TWO of FOUR fighter divisions in the Shenyang Military Region how?
Also, Beijing Military District is responsible for air cover over the capital and a share of the fucking coastline. You're a complete fucking idiot if you believe those divisions are focused on Mongolia.
Listen faggot. Everyone else is claiming that about 50% of the PLAAF's fighter fleet is comprised of J-7s and J-8s. That's objectively true and numerous citations have been provided.
Then you, being the nigger piece of autistic dog shit you are, starts talking about frontline and reserve status (which literally nobody else brought up) as if that at all changes the numbers in the PLAAF fleet. Spoiler: IT fucking doesn't motherfucker.
I hope you're sterile because you're too god damn retarded to be trusted to reproduce.
Address the damn point dude. Jesus tittyfucking christ. Provide some citation that the J-7 and J-8 do NOT make up a large percentage of the total Chinese air force fighter inventory. You haven't done that once yet.
Why do you think that region like Nanjing, Shenyang and Guangzhou have twice so many divisions than Beijing.
Only Chengdu and Lanzhou have less/same amount of divisions although both cover the largest districts in the Chinese Army.
The Beijing district basically only needs to cover the capital which is done by J-11 aircraft of the 7th division.
> As long as they can keep the peasants from starving and keep getting the cash rolling in to the centralized administration areas, they're fine. It's only when they fail to do this that there's issues. To do this, they need to assert political influence over overseas agricultural regions, ie Africa and have a fairly free rein in their dealings there. To do this, they need to deter other nations naval forces, in particular the US.
they can't even do that properly though, you know the huge Drought in California and South Africa? China is directly effected by it, because they're a huge food importer
their activities in Africa don't amount to much, especially when obongo put 25k troops in US-backed countries there
Except that half the divisions in Shenyang also field J-7s to one extent or another, and if we looked I'm sure the other division breakdowns would reveal similar levels.
China built the last J-7s in 2013, and are STILL BUILDING J-8s. you're a fucking retard if you think they don't fly them.
> I suppose this is the end of an era -- the J-7 production line at Chengdu is now being decommissioned after the last 12 F-7BGI for the BAF is handed over. That is an incredible 40-year production run.
Reserve or active, it's still pretty sad. The USAF retired its last operational F-4 from ANG (air national guard) units (Idaho, I believe) in 1996.
Even if the J-7 was "withdrawn from frontline service", it's hilarious that it still serves in active reserve squadrons, considering the NATO equivalent jet left USAF/ANG service completely 19 years ago.
Just did a quick headcount to realize that in addition to the 254 F-15C/Ds and 983 F-16C/Ds the USAF operates, the Air National Guard has an ADDITIONAL 20 F-16C/D squadrons and 7 F-15C squadrons. That's fucking nuts. The US ANG might be in the top ten largest air forces in the world, and that's with the USAF, USN and USMC in the 1st, 2nd and 5-8th spots.
China is always GOING TO have xyz scary new weapon or vehicle that will assure parity with the US.
Not once have they ever delivered even that new hot shit plane they are chest beating over has shit engines and will continue to have shit engines forever!
Even if the Russians sell them an engine(which they won't because they don't have the next gen ready and won't sell the chicoms their best tech) they will still be decades behind a P&W 135 and by then we'll be on to the next.
I swear these articles are just to keep up out appetite for huge defense budgets.
Yeah, but what engines are in them? What electronic packages? Are they 4th gen or do they only LOOK 4th gen. I've lived over in the PRC for a few years and they are masters of appearance and novices of substance.
The problem is at some point you don't gain anything from a higher budget.
Having hundreds of F-16 and F-15 somewhere in your backyard doesn't add any tactical and strategical value with dealing with countries like China.
Because the effective amount of aircraft you could use in a conflict is highly limited by avaiable pilots, logistics or the amount of air bases in the region.
It's a nonsensical discussion.
If you say the AESA radar doesn't count because [random reason] then we don't need to discuss about the topic. Because whatever source I will provide about the amount of modules or used material would be ignored.
It's like discussing with people who are against vaccinations.
>tfw F-15Cs will disappear in your lifetime
Western monitors of China tech can't agree on where they are with AESA. Any info on it released by the PRC can't be verified. With the US having it deployed since 2000 and the euros now deploying it why would China be so secret about it? It's 15 years old in the US. If anything they'd want to prove they've caught up.
And what plane will it be on? Some snowflake plane that doesn't even have the engines it needs yet? Lmao. Post any sources you like. I'm sure they are Beijing Post Gazzet tier.
god, that's horrible data.
every single analyst who is doing serial number counting can put out far better numbers.
And this is from 2011.
9th Division (Naval Aviation), 26th Regiment (J-8FH) has been converted to J-11BHs in 2014.
A few J.7 regiments have been converted to J-10A's as well, bringing the number up to about 300 J-10s.
Serial Number is 83480
>having to now occupy at least the coastline of China
Don't see that happening. Open season in the PLAN, sure. They'll have a brief and exciting lifespan.
As far as the political climate, if China takes the first shot... Remember how we were after 9/11? That wouldn't even begin to describe how we'd be, especially if it was a nuclear strike on a CBG.
We don't have a real strong genocide reflex, so there would probably still be a China left when we were done. Probably.
And all of this booraw about our economy- ours is a lot more resilient than China's. Plus, we're not dependent on food imports to keep our populace from starving.
Their policy may be based on credible threat, their problem lies in how they present that threat. They need to work on understanding the cultures they're rubbing up against. Failure to do so is what'll get them into a war they can't win.
Similiarily with the previously J-7EH equipped 24th Regiment of the PLANAF 8th Division
received 24x J-11BH as of Aug 2014
So, at least two new J-11BHs, making the PLANAF completely modernized with either J-10AH or J-11BH or JH-7/A.
Flankers of al variants should be at least counting 460 as of 2015.
There are more modernizations since 2011.
J-8 isnt related with any Russian plane.
Also it is still fairly useful for delivering satellite guided PGMs, SEAD and carrying BVR missiles.
It is rather comparable with a modernized F-4 enabled for AIM-120.
It's still a gen3 airframe in a gen4+ - gen5 world. Shit, the only arguably gen3 aircraft even the Russians still operate are MiG-25s and Su-27s, and both of those have to be counted as gen3++ if not gen4.
I've seen a pretty good argument that the Su-27 family didn't hit 4th gen until the Su-30, but I don't really buy it. All the Su-27 family is 4th gen by my lights and most others.
15th Div, 43rd Rgt has been modernized with J-10As as of 2013.
About as quiet as a 688 class boat. Some sources suggest 688I level noise radiation above 10 knots, but below 10 knots it radiates about as much as a Sturgeon class boat, due to not having the ability to go natural circulation on the reactor at low load levels. Possibly a little less due to not dealing with the electrical systems noise some Sturgeon boats dealt with.
As far as passive reduction, there's not much info on the effectiveness of the anechoic tiling, but there's heavy skepticism that the Chinese accomplished in 5 years what it took the USN 30 years to develop, i.e. tiling that is as effective being compressed at 900ft as it is at periscope depth.
>Anything over 5% is unsustainable long term.
Funny, because our Cold War average was right around 7%.
I agree that about half that is a good ass-covering sustainable minimum.
Not sure where we stand on pilots, doubt it's a problem. We have a deep pool to draw from, and aviation jobs are highly sought after by recruits and applicants in all branches of the military.
Logistics is right in our wheelhouse. We're good at it. Really, really good at it.
Availability of airbases goes hand in hand with our monstrous logistics capability. If there's nothing available where we need it, we'll build it. We have a long record of doing just that. It won't be pretty, but it'll be operational in 30 days.
>never heard of dash and drift
>never heard of transit to patrol area
>knows jack shit about USN submarine noise radiation performance requirements (they do escort fucking carriers, after all, and carriers have to maintain 18+ knots for flight ops)
>generally fucking potato
Why replying to my post if you don't provide any arguments outside of "because we can!".
The logistic capacities were pushed to it's limits in Afghanistan and Iraq and that weren't enemies which were capable of shooting back.
And any conflict with a larger more powerful nation like China would be short but intense - there would be no time of improving military infrastructure.
USN subs operate into the 30 knot range all the time.
While escorting carrier groups, USN subs use dash and drift regimes, ringing for 5 knots to listen ahead as the carrier group catches up at 18-25 knots, then dashing ahead again at full or flank turns (30-35+knots) to achieve space to slow down and listen again.
USN SSNs and SSBNs generally transit to patrol routes at 20+ knots (20-22 knots being USN standard for maximum low noise radiation speed).
While you get partial credit for the idea that increased speed degrades sonar performance, I have no idea where you got your numbers. Seawolf and Virginia boats do not begin to experience significant sonar dropoff (range drops below the first convergence point in nominal conditions) until 14-15 knots. The idea that a submarine doesn't need to worry about noise radiation over 10 knots is pants on head retarded.
Actually, I was doing the mandatory jingoism/dickwaving in the first part of my post. The part about China's moribund economy is almost copypasta at this point. The clash of cultures part is what I think will kick off some kind of conflict. Everybody else in the world at least tries to understand who they're dealing with. China doesn't appear to even make a pretext of doing that. They just keep doing whatever they're doing, no matter how disturbing it is. Kind of like the retarded kid who keeps rubbing his dick on the tile walls in the locker room shower. You can't stop him, because he likes it. Best you can do is try to get him to keep it to one area so the regular folk can use the showers, too.
I'm sorry, are you suggesting that SSNs are not attached to carrier strike group escort as a matter of USN policy? Or are you saying that carrier groups do not travel at 18+ knots almost constantly? I'm confused as to what you could possibly suggest is made up in that post.
OH NO NOT 3 SUBMARINES WHATEVER WILL WE DO?????????
Not really. You're just incapable of understanding a basic argument.
If Canada is going to come out with its own brand of pickups and start manufacturing them at home, they aren't going to start with a 1950s type truck with no power steering. They are going to start with something relatively modern and roughly on par with other contemporary offerings. That doesn't change the fact that their industry started up decades later.
is that american pizza even supposed to look tasty? I don't think it's possible to get such poorfag pizzas anywhere in Europe...
So what you're saying is that, even though I've posted several easily verifiable reasons for why what you said is completely stupid, I now have to spoon feed you sources for facts that anyone remotely acquainted with USN SSN ops would know off the top of their head?
We can start here:
>The LOS ANGELES class SSN was designed almost exclusively for Carrier Battlegroup escort;
>The new submarines showed another step improvement in quieting and an increase in operating speed to allow them to support the CVBG. Escort duties included conducting ASW sweeps hundreds of miles ahead of the CVBG and conducting attacks against the SAG.
>hundreds of miles of the carrier group
Pretty much the opposite of dashing ahead all handfull kilometers. It doesn't make sense to send your submarine close to your carrier group but dealing with any threats long before the carrier group is close to the area of interest.
>A bunch of guys trapped in a metal can several miles beneath the waves
Dude, they're fucking insane. They have no idea what they're talking about because dolphins whisper conspiracies to them 24/7 and shit.
Holy shit. Are you just being intentionally dense or are you really this stupid? Each carrier group has 1-2 SSN escorts. One is always on station several miles ahead of the carrier group providing dash and drift ASW coverage on the CSG course. If another is present, it is either leapfrogging the first in dash and drift or scouting several dozen miles ahead.
Why are you even commenting on SSN ops if you don't know something this basic about one of the three primary USN SSN jobs for the last 60 years?
You're willfully ignoring the point that was made. You know it and instead of responding to the actual point, you just greentext. You haven't stated anything relevant to the point that was made.
It isn't robust *now.* Our entire society is just kind of coasting along on its own momentum. Growth is zero for this quarter, worker participation is more in the shitter than during the 1970's, and we're in debt past our eyeballs at 107% of our GDP.
Still, 1941 was the last time we'll ever be able to play catch-up ball. We have to keep our dukes up. 3% or better, in spite of everything.
what is sprint and drift you fucking retard?
>implying the Soviets built the Alpha only for it to crawl along at <10 knots
Because your post provided no concrete information to refute. You posted an opinion. I responded with and opinion. If it turns into a moral imperative, I'll do the research to provide the data to verify that my opinion is somewhat accurate.
And now you're posting more opinions that I disagree with.
Do you have any basis for your opinion that we were logistically stretched to the limit in Afghanistan and Iraq? We had Starbucks and Burger King over there, that's not indicative of logistical difficulties.
Yes, it would take a month or so to destroy the PLAN. However, there would still be issues to be decided with the PLAAF. That might require that we build forward airbases. Like I said, it takes us about a month. As far as the PLA itself, I don't see why we would be engaging them. It would be amazingly stupid of us to try putting forces into mainland China, that's the only way I could envision PLA units becoming significantly involved.
Of course, none of this comes to pass unless China fires the first shot. Their expansionism and military adventurism can be just as easily curtailed with sanctions.