>>27771211 >What kind of knife would /k/ recommend for self-defence?
Again, if you're asking 4chan what knife to use for self-defense then you're not capable of using a knife for self-defense. The knife in your pic is fine for an absolute last resort weapon, but do not plan on getting out of a knife fight without getting cut.
Get pepper spray, bear spray if you can.
>>27771232 Probably part of the commonwealth since he spelled defense with a c.
>>27771224 If you are considering defending yourself with a melee weapon, I want you to stop and assess yourself. Carrying a knife without knowing what you're doing or being introduces a lot of danger to you in self defense. Physically defending yourself starts with being physically strong, so hit the gym.
I'd almost prefer defending myself barehanded than introducing a knife into a hand-to-hand jump. A meaty, hard palm slap to somebody's jaw is going to ring their bell good. A bit or two like that and I'm running down the street and GTFO. Sticking around to fight to the death in most honorubu hand to hand is not something I'm down for. And I'm saying this as a strong, Big Guy.
I studied Krav Maga for about 6 years. I am by no means any sort of expert or even close. It's good to know self defense and all that, but today people seem to be disillusioned by movies and vidya when it comes to combat. The guy who trained me gave the best advice. Something along the lines of "no one wins in a knife fight." You will get cut, you may die, the other guy will get cut, he may die. Get a gun or run away. Don't get some crazy tacticool karambit, neck knife either. Just get something that can serve multiple purposes like a CRKT M-16, so you don't look silly when you pull out your super tiger arctic CSGO knife.
if katars and pata blades actually worked in combat, you'd have seen them used outside of india. the issue with having a blade on your fist is that you really reduce your range of motion, all you can do is punch and slash.
>Kinfe fight is hardly a win/lose situation. It is more likely to be a lose/lose situation.
And, if I recall what my master's master told us: if I had to defend barehanded from a knife, I will definitely expect to be cut at least once before getting within range and disarm the dude. That is, in the best possible scenario.
>>27771394 >defended themselves effectively with knives
No they haven't. Knife fights are awful, that's why swords were invented. Sword fights are awful too, that's why spears were invented. But then those were still bad, so bows were invented. People still didn't like those, so along came crossbows, then guns.
Gunfights are still nasty, but they're much better than a knife fight.
>>27771384 ^me. Incomplete thought there. When I said get a multi-purpose knife, I mean for everyday use like box cutting or whatever your field of work might require (usually boxes are everywhere). If you're into it, get something that'll do well innawoods too. Just don't look at the knife as a weapon with the primary purpose of self defense. Look at that as a secondary function if all other options are exhausted in a hostile situation.
>>27771424 >>27771426 >I'll just wrap and control the knife hand with my jacket >'just use your jacket to smother the knife OMG, that's the funniest thing I've ever seen. Do you have the source? I'd like to show my students that.
Knifes were born as tools to cut meat and nothing more.
Try to read some paleoanthropology shit... maybe even your kid's year 5 textbook will suffice.
Our ancestors caught preys with traps, bows and arrows or spears. They fought wars with spears, shields, clubs and club-sized boomerangs... and only later with swords and armour.
Knives were useful tools and helped knights to finish off injured enemies or served as essential camping cutlery or status symbol.
Even if occasionally they were used for lack of other weapons, they have always been considered improper.
...and don't quote to me current cultural fashions such as the Sikh tradition to carry a knife: that fucking thing is at peast 40-60 cm; more of a short sword than an actual knife.
Knifes best performance comes along with either planning and / or surprise: a murdering weapon. Self defense if you wanna keep something under your mattress for fear of people murdering you when you dream of your last whore, and self defense from *unarmed people*.
Best defense from unarmed people is a knife (though it will buy you a ticket to jail). However, if you are threatened with a knife it is wise not to challenge it with another knife. Either you raise your level of threat (i.e. with a sword or a gun) or you turn your heels and flight as fast as you can. Or you hand over your money.
>>27771171 Knives are pretty shitty in general. Just get yourself a fast and some-what weighty blunt weapon (say for an instance, a ball-peen hammer) because at most with any legal knife (that isn't considered a dagger or sword) you aren't really going to do more than cut an important vein or put a mean nick in a bone (meaning who-ever's attacking you, if they have the will-power, will still continue attacking you until they bleed out -if- you did hit an important vein). With that said the reason you are going to want a weighty blunt weapon is because not only can it break bone easier but more often then not it can penetrate skulls and other important bones, unlike knives (unless your are a "trained professional" which, come on- we all know you aren't). So all-in-all invest in something like a steel baton or a ball-peen hammer for self defense.
>tl;dr get a blunt weapon it does much more damage than a cutting weapon like a knife
>>27771457 >They fought wars with spears, shields, clubs and club-sized boomerangs >26 August 1346, Crecy, Northern France >Wounded, Arrows spent, lance imbedded in some guys horse >Some peasant coming to kick my shit in >Wait, still have dagger! >Oh, shit, /k/ says I can't use a knife to defend myself! It won't work! >curl into a ball, /k/ style LOL :D
>>27771497 Also those are duelists. Notice the fighting with one arm behind their back? A real knife fight is like wrestling but with a knife involved.
Here's a video I love to show people who think they'd want to get into a knife fight. Pepper spray + sprinting away is infinitely more effective than getting into a knife fight. http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=d9e_1426420761
>>27771534 Yeah, but what's the point in arguing against an idiot troll who posts the pic of an Egyptian god-dog holding a knife and claims it's proof knives were first-choice self-defense weapons and wars were fought with them since the dawn of time?
>>27771457 >Knifes were born as tools to cut meat and nothing more. Dagger defense Illustration from Fillipo Vadi's fine arms manual, "Book on the Art of Fighting with Swords" You know, just because you can't do something, doesn't mean it can't be done :D
OP said he has no training and wanted a knife for self-defence.
I have already admitted in all of my posts that self-defence with a knife is an extrema ratio possibility.
As such, you find it in handbooks and the shit you are googling right now to annoy me.
I am not saying it's impossible. I said it should never be your 1st choice weapon and that, by defending with it against anything (included a knife) is taking chances.
So, basically, you keep quoting cherry-picked parts of my discourse and post a pic saying: "it happened once! Look at this erection!"
***Unfortunately, my point is that it is just extrema ratio ( = last resort) and not commonplace. That is, not a 1st choice weapon for self-defence until you are 100% sure to be able to use it in a sneaky way or by exploiting surprise.***
Now I put my point wihin asterisks. Don't be the Gio Pa of the situation and get your fucking argument right.
>>27771457 >Get attacked by asshole with a spear while sitting in hut >Shit, spear's outside, all I have is this knife >"But that sword is for monsters.wav" >Sit and get speared because nobody ever thought of using a sharp object to stab another person for another 10,000 years Give a 2-year-old toddler a plastic knife and see if he starts slashing up "bad guys" with it or if he sits down to make you a fake pie.
>>27771592 >Aristocratic upper-class fops 500 years ago could use a knife, /k/. Why can't you?
...and suffered, on the average, more stabbing injuries than average Joe who works the land and defends the modesty of his daughter with hammers and pitchforks (unless, of course, he is drafted to die in the name of the Emperor).
>aristocrats did it >so it must be a conceivable option
Thanks for this thought, anon... but I'll.wipe my ass with it.
I value aristocrats' opinion to be less than zero in terms of warfare. Unless, of course, they served in the army as fighting officers rather than playing kill-or-be-killed with their wive's lover from the inn at the corner of main st.
>>27771581 >who takes a ball peen hammer with them on a date? Hopefully nobody- but if you really had to carry something to defend yourself with and didn't have the choice to carry a gun it wouldn't be a bad option.
>>27771694 It's a safe bet that they'd all think it nonsense.
Depends on what you mean by serious, though. Plenty of otherwise reputable trainers don't teach defense against a knife.
Self-defense trainers that try to teach complex knife disarms are sadly pretty common. Everyone who's serious about self-defense here will either be too busy teaching you how to properly draw your pistol or how to properly kick someone in the balls while shouting "I DON'T KNOW YOU".
>>27771691 His point is that he's a retarded idiot that thinks that people wouldn't use a sharp stone because he's so fucking high on shit-gas and bull-history, he doesn't realize that people beat and murder each other with whatever the fuck they have in close proximity.
>Ooga booga that stick is pointy, I'll throw it at jaguars and other people so I can take their women >Ooga booga, that obsidian is sharp, I'll use it to scrape hides and chop up anyone that gets close to my family
Like the ultra-dumb-fucks that put out those "huhhhr swords were never used in combat!!!!!!!!!" videos and then completely fucking ignore historical records like the ones we have of Battle of Cannae. "In the first 2 seconds of battle, everyone had thrown their javelins, so we hacked each other to pieces with swords for the rest of the day, and seriously, all the Romans died."
>>27771720 >Self-defense trainers that try to teach complex knife disarms are sadly pretty common. That is sad. In the blade-based arts they generally teach to pass and run. Open hand defense against someone that know how to use a blade is almost always suicidal.
>>27771735 >A stab battle is not something you want to get into It's better than a "just sit here and get stabbed" battle because you think that using a knife is stupid.
Fuck, even Sikhs are required by their law to carry knives because they're so effective at defense. Someone over 400 years ago, that actually had to use that shit in defense, was a fuckload smarter than you, you fucking "I learned from the internuts!" dumbass.
>>27771761 Again, nobody is arguing that a knife shouldn't be used as a last resort.
They're just saying that having a knife as your primary weapon is beyond retarded. "Stab and get stabbed, first person to lose enough blood to pass out or gets covered in enough blood to lose control of their knife loses!" is only so much better than "sit there and get stabbed"
>>27771761 >It's better than a "just sit here and get stabbed" battle because you think that using a knife is stupid. LOL, this isn't even the dumbest shit that /k/ spouts. There was another thread on here that advocated, if you had a knife, to leave it in its sheath and defend against a knife attack open-hand. That's so counter-intuitive that I don't think your evolutionary instinct would allow you to do it!
>>27771694 Most serious martial artists practice just for practice's sake or for the thrill of there fight (I.e. self preservation isn't their top priority) and recognize what they do is pretty shitty for self defense. This goes double for people whose lives don't revolve around martial arts.
Even Bruce Lee said the best course of action is just gtfo. Can't lose a fight you don't fight.
>>27771757 I took issue with one thing you said, you stupid fucknugget. You were wrong about the thing that I took issue with. I do not disagree that knives are not ideal weapons, that's why I didn't address anything else.
>>27771796 Yeah, with knives in particular, I think people get the wrong idea about martial arts. They will see FMA people doing lengthy checking drills and think, "look at those dumbasses thinking they will fight with a knife for more than ten seconds!" All that Jason Bourne stuff is just to learn flow and elastico. I don't know of one serious FMA practitioner, in my whole country, that doesn't teach knife as a last resort, and running away as your first, best option.
>Completely missed my point. >Takes historical quotes as a personal ad hominem offense. >Thinks knife developed immediately as a war tool. (No you idiot. Stick and stones first. And fangs. And when knives were available to prepare meats, for both big hunt and small game it is other tools, weapons and traps that are preferred) >Posts middle age and Renaissance pics whereas I am quoting 40,000 BCE. >Focusses on my mistaken remark about knife sizes in some Indian people, but fails to acknowledge that such knives were rituals >Takes kids' reactions to knives as proof knives are optimal fighting tools.
My point is not that nobody would ever fight with a knife. As I said: extrema ratio.
My point is that knife is a loser in many contexts... and especially when the other party has a knife or better weapon.
Knife fight is likely to be a lose/lose situation even when it is facing another knife. And this is the point of some other 2-3 posters.
I am not advocating that knives are completely useless.
I am just advocating that, in order for them to work, you need: >Appropriate context
I am advocating thet should not be your first choice if other weapons are available.
Okay, I've been talking in the context of self defense. Do I know how to cut some fucking wheat with that? Yes, it's self explanatory. Do westerners have an entire art focused on using it as a defensive weapon? No.
It makes an awkward as fuck stabbing weapon compared to a straight knife, using it as a slashing weapon is a good way to get jabbed in the face with a pitchfork, and I don't think the average farmhand is too concerned about hook control and hand trapping techniques.
>>27771880 >Knifes were born as tools to cut meat and nothing more. >nothing more.
You start with stones with sharp edges.
As soon as you get the hang of it, you match a sharp stone with a stick and boom: here's an axe.
Very soon, even if some dumb ape kept smashing heads with stones because they loved gore above anything else... all the other dudes switched to spears, bows, axes, clubs, and swords (much much later).
The hunter gatherer always has a knife with him and... guess what? 99.999999% of the time it is used for tool making, meat cutting and other practical purposes.
For war and self defence, he already has better weapons: staves, spears, axes, etc.
99% of the time, his knife is just an everyday tool.
Jump on your time machine and gather some 250 mumbo-jumbo H. Sapiens.
They can all throw javelins at olympic distances and can smash logs and shit with axes and clubs like pro.
In a knife fight they will survive because they are fucking storng and determined, and because they do not shy off using teeth and tricks.
But the sample you gathered will never be that of expert knife fighters.
Take Argulf, for example. We interviewed this dude teleported from 20,000 BCE (quite recent a time, I reckon). An anon asked Argulf if he carries his knife for self-defence. Argulf laughs with guttural sounds: "yeah, once I killed a man with this. He tried to stab me in the back but I was quicker. Those motherfuckers tried to take our tribe by surprise. But, frankly, when my opponent is in front of me I will use my spear and charge with my axe. Only an idiot would choose a knife if better options are available." Seriously? "Yeah. Once I heard of a tribe in Turkey that used to have knife fights on a regular basis. But that was for sport, a ritual to celebrate the god of water. Not an actual thing. Knives are for skinning game and cutting stuff." Thank you for your testimony, Argulf. Your contribution to history is priceless.
>>27771952 Some 13 people have pointed out the problem is not that knife is completely useless as a weapon.
The majority of people her, however, do agree knife is a poor choice if other options are available.
ESPECIALLY, in OP's scenario.
OP is defending from armed robberies and thieves... not from assassins or angry lovers or random people who grab his arse from behind and try to rape him.
Moreover, OP is untrained. Do you follow me, anon?
So, the options are: OP/Jigaboo Barehanded/barehanded=OP wins Knife/barehanded=OP wins Barehanded/knife=Jigaboo wins, but given what he said, we consider OP is more skilled with his bare hands than anything else Knife/knife=both are gonna get seriously hurt Etc.
Should OP get into knife fights with a knife? Answer: he should avoid this at all costs!
Aww shucks, I'll bet you say that to everyone who calls you a dumbass.
You sound like the fags who think katanas are something special in the sword world. 95% of the shit that people do with karambits could be done with a paring knife. It's just another knife.
Also, how are you going to pull muh FMA out of your ass when you said that average laymen stuff earlier? I don't think the average layman is concerned about hook control and hand trapping techniques, Western or otherwise.
Also, using anything short enough to qualify as a knife vs. a pitchfork is a good way to get jabbed in the face with a pitchfork. Polearm beats every knife every time, I don't even know why you brought that up.
>>27771965 You've never done anything outside of eating your own shit on your computer, have you? Seriously, stop eating your own shit for like... 5 seconds and do some actual fucking research.
Pic related is around 4,500 years old. It is a COMBAT knife. A Beaker Blade.
Before beaker blades, there were flint/obsidian knives. Fuckers didn't have flint/obsidian swords because flint/obsidian is fucking brittle and you'd have to be the world's biggest dumbfuck to think that hauling around a giant, brittle blade that will smash itself to pieces the first time you set it down or hit something with it, is more effective to use than a knife for combat.
Now think about this, for one second, if you can, you idiot-sucking retard: Why in the fuck would anyone put in the extreme effort with such primitive tools to cobble together a combat knife if it was the last fucking thing anyone wanted to use in a combat scenario? That knife was probably worth more than the village that the dude lived in.
>>27772174 Thank you Anon. /k/ always starts these threads with "hurr,durr, impossible to use knife, no one ever did" Than once that is disproved: "hurr, durrr, that's not what I said! I meant to say knives were a last resort, after your bow, spear, mounted knight, etc." They always refuse to accept the simple truth that knives have been used defensively since the dawn of time. If /k/'s favorite internet neckbeard has convinced them that they should curl up in a ball and get kicked to death before using their knife, that's fine, but don't try to revise history.
>>27772043 The original point was that a curved blade leaves your John Doe with no FMA experience less options than a chef's knife. And also that shitskin-asians are the only ones that have a subset in their mystical ooga booga voodoo to use it as an effective combat implement.
>>27772198 LOL, I would rather not get sent to prison, anon, it is far worse in my country than those summer camp prisons in the US. Besides, you can carry a knife legally here, and in a last resort, you can actually defend yourself! I know this is hard for Americans to beleive :D
>>27772245 >subset in their mystical ooga booga voodoo Actually, FMA has no ooga-booga. No chi or ki, no philosophical crap. It's all body mechanics. Fun fact: my maestro knows the maestro that did that chicken blood thing to Jason Chambers in "Human Weapon". It's something he made up to do to westerners that want to learn FMA, because he wanted to see if they would actually do it. He laughed his ass of when they did.
>>27772286 >but nobody ever said that >>27771252 >A knife will do you no good in a fight >>27771384 >You'll always lose in a knife fight >>27771457 >Knifes were born as tools to cut meat and nothing more. >>27771522 >BUT a knife is Never a first choice war or self-defense weapon. >>27771691 >His point isn't that you shouldn't even reach for the knife >>27771702 >if you win a knife fight, you die in the ambulance >>27771830 >when knives were available to prepare meats, for both big hunt and small game it is other tools, weapons and traps that are preferred
>>27772444 >saying knife fights have no victors. That's not true. I know men that have survived knife encounters. They usually have a good scar to remember it by, but it's better than standing their holding your jacket :D
>>27772380 >were obsidian knives used for self defence? >Prove it. http://www.researchgate.net/publication/222158187_Surface_marks_on_bones_from_a_Neolithic_collective_grave_(Odagsen._Lower_Saxony)._A_study_on_differential_diagnosis
Now eat a full bucket of cold, wet dog shit, because you fucking deserve it, you ass-blasted retard.
There's a difference between the type of wound that a knife fight creates vs. butchering or ritual slaying.
But you are the biggest fucking faggot on /k/ right now.
>>27771254 >Probably part of the commonwealth since he spelled defense with a c You mean he spelt it properly. >>27771171 Banned in UK. Doubly illegal if it's one of the 'stealth' plastic ones. >>27771307 The knife in your pic is a hell of a lot bigger than the one in OP's.
In archaeology there are examples of actual beaker daggers... but Beaker culture is more prominent and famous for having mounted knives on sticks for warring purposes. Actually, archaelogists are careful to call "knife" something that may have been the tip of a longer weapon.
So, it's basically as I said: as long as they could use a stick to extend the weapon's range... they did it.
They tried not to use knives by themselves as much as they could... to the point of inventing halberds before it was mainstream.
Source (for you illiterate amerifags): https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beaker_culture
Pros: + Compact + Light + Fast + Secure grip + Quick & easy deployment even in the most high stress situations + Fairly unnoticeable + Not going to break in its intended use + Stabs are generally more deadly than slashes and this baby specializes in stabs
Cons: - Reach is slightly inferior to some other options - Fucks you up more than your average knife in legal cases - Might be lacking in utility uses compared to more common knives - Your hand might be more vulnerable to injury than with other knives
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