I think they are fucking ignorant. It's great to love peace and hate violence. If you dont like what the military is doing take it out on your government, they are the ones that start the wars, not the soldiers who Are sent away to risk their lives.
>>27771530 I think it's the hipster thing to do right now. Lot of sensational words and phrases goin round right now. Bootlicker, babykiller, welfare queen, etc. Most of it is trolly, but there's legit people out there that assume the service is all just a scam because the military isn't used how they envision it should be.
>>27771530 >people are generally aware that politicians are mostly shit or puppets >politicians decide who are our allies and what wars we fight >but we must blindly support our troops because they must be "fighting for our country"
explain to me how they arent just fighting for a political agenda
also >destroy middle east >pissed off muslims flood into west >our countries everywhere slowly turning into islamic caliphates >"serving your country" kek
>>27771530 >What is /k/ opinion regarding people who does not support the military and veterans?
Speaking as an American, I can understand both sides.
Concerning the side that's either distrusting or hostile to the Mil/Vets Its easy to look at the shenanigans the US military has done and be either upset or disgusted at the lengths that were gone to achieve something that may or may not have been for the nations best interest, or what one may consider the waste of billions on the latest boondoggle at the time. When you look at the iron curtain of bureaucratic bullshit and red tape that prevents any kind of civilian direction or interaction without significant money or political clout, then you also have people that become disenfranchised with the whole process. You can make the argument that civilians really have no place when it comes to making decisions concerning military policy, and to an extent I agree, but people, naturally being people, aren't going to readily agree when it comes to "wasting" trillions of dollars with nothing to show for it, or commuting unethical acts that may or may not gain us anything tangible.
On the other hand, while the Military doesn't decide on it's own to go fuck up other countries, It is used as the long arm of political offices, and thus shoulders some up the blame with little is actually achieved and shit generally gets worse. It's unfortunate, but true. I would never fault most veterans for it, but at the same time, its what they agreed to do, for better or worse.
>>27771573 >Unattainable If we actually stuck to the COIN bible, we would only be a few years from having an peaceful Muslim democracy in iraq. What do we get instead? A premature pull out followed shortly by Isis
>>27771530 soldier worship is horseshit. >No ones fighting the nazi's >were occupying shitholes int he middle east for no gain Its not like the military or veterans deserve to have their ass kissed for all the pork barrel spending and war profiteering. >And dont forget that the only people from my hs who joined up really didnt have college prospects. They also tended to be int he bottom 20% of the class
>>27771938 >implying the shitstorm in Syria wouldn't still boil over the border >implying former Iraqi army soldiers wouldn't still defect to IS (retarded move on our part to disband the army) >implying the various other angry people wouldn't still return to arms after we left >implying the long arm of the Iranians wouldn't still reach into the country
>>27771989 What, about it being Hipster? It was, are you fuckin kiddin me? Even then it was way overblown, returning vets didnt get treated like garbage, the entire anti war movement was in support of the troops, trying to bring them home from a war the people stopped believing in.
>>27771530 I respect the military. But I don't respect politicians.
So sorry if I don't show up to say hello during the parade... but I do not want politicians to take credit for my presence and make themselves beautiful under they eyes of the mob just because the military has to march and salute them.
I approve of people voluntarily agreeing to defend the country. I have zero desire to be in the military and am glad there are people who do. so I don't have to. They have my gratitude, and support any initiative that helps them. A guy I used to work with as a teenager was a Vietnam conscript, it's nice to know I don;t have to worry about that shit.
>>27772125 even if the vet is an ignorant asshat? >what about the asshole vet who im helping sue the VA, he listed "tobacco use syndrone" in his suit. WTF Tobacco use? gimmie a break no one shoved that cigarrette into your mouth and no one made u chew dip like a redneck >Some vets aren't respectable. >the general public shouldnt be made to kiss ur ass because you killed a bunch of brown hillbillies
Yeah, but what about partisans and the so-called freedom fighters?
In Italy, they have created the myth of being all anti-fascist freedom-fighters and are celebrated on 25th April every year.
Among them, there are many legit ones who had to go innawoods in the 40s to avoid persecution and gathered together in bands that kicked in the 1943 Italian civil war through guerrilla warfare --both against fascist troops (civil war) and against the Nazis (liberation war).
However, many others were just rascals or were too politicized to share a common view. Many exploited guerrilla to settle old grudges and slaughtered people at will. Others were just disbanded army units: when civil war started, the U.S. got support from the army generals in the South, so that fascist militia found themselves retreating northwards and had to call for Nazi support because the army had rebuked Mussolini. However -- surprise! -- army generals didn't bother telling Italian troopers that they had switched sides. So these troopers disbanded and those who were not killed became part of warbands roaming the country.
Again: many legit freedom fighters, but at least as many rascals who had just found themselves on the wrong side of the conflict... or even motherfuckers who thought of war as an excuse for marauding and settling accounts. Proof of this is they kept fighting each other over political issues (army vs. communists vs. christian democrats).
These are my "war veterans".
I am sort of left-wing (though no hipster) and yet I wonder whether or not I should follow the leftist tradition of yore and hail these freedom-fighters as my heroes.
As a vet i dont want my ass kissed just because i took somebodies spot in the military. Fuck i find it awkward when someone thanks me for my service. The hell am i supposed to say "you're welcome even though i could give a shit less if you dropped dead right now"?
Thanks to my service i have a short fuse, shitty health, and a general distain for groups of people. Thats about it. My knees hurt every god damn day but i know better than to stand in line at the VA and expect someone to do something about it cause they won't. So then what, get angry about it and vent on facebook about how i should be pandered to? No, im not stupid, i knew the lies, the recruiting bullshit posters didnt fool me, i had no illusions about fighting for freedom and i wasnt spreading democracy i was getting shit faced when i could back in the rear when my friends would sneakmail me booze hidden in Listerine bottles that were emptied and filled with jack. the choices i made were mine and so the the consequences.
The small small take away i have being a vet is very simple. I done my time for the government and the nation, whether it be bad or good i spent my time in the machine and i feel i have earned my right to my freedoms such as mouthing off to whatever authority or higher up that may be.
The second would be that i have earned my place among men of the same ilk whose love is beyond that which the word brother can describe. I served with men and women who i know deserve to be lifted up on shoulder due to their personal strength and conviction to bring me home again, the "cause" of why we fought were of no choosing of our own, but it showed no matter what the fight, these select few people i know that are alive is the reason why i did my job and didnt bitch. These people i will fight for, everyone else can get fucked.
If you really want to "respect" vets or show gratitude, just leave them the fuck alone.
>>27771530 Pretty much every member of the family has served in the military in one form or another. My opinion is pretty simple. Pay them the pay they deserve and give them benefits we promised, but short of that that's pretty much it. You don't have to thank anyone for serving in our armed forces. It's all volunteer and they are given fair compensation. Doesn't mean you need to be a dick either. Help those who need help in general.
>>27771530 >>27771573 well a soldier is supposed to enact the will of the people in a democratic country. if a war is unjust it is the fault of the people and politician not the soldier. if someone doesn't at least respect the people who are carrying out their elected representatives martial policies they are either brain dead or need to vote for someone else and if no one else is available to support your view then you should put your opinion forward, that's just basic democracy; it is your inaction which allows your soldiers to be misused by unjust politicians or the misguided masses; and if you believe joining in peacetime is bad then you don't understand the value of maintaining a peacetime military.
Supporting the military/veterans is largely a meme aimed at quashing dissent and the questioning of the merits of the state's foreign policy. , I pity the fuckers. Growing up in a military town interacting with soldiers everyday does an excellent job at inoculating one against the widespread cultural romanticization of the US military. It's a shit tier job and career; the pay and benefits are in no way worth the damages and opportunity costs. Seen way to many friends and relatives get chewed up and spit out by Uncle Sam; at a minimum you're losing your knees and hearing and it seems to be absolute kryptonite to the development of healthy relationships. Only know one vet who isn't divorced yet, and he's a math-prodigy West Point grad who looks like a male model.
Picking up a rifle and putting on a uniform does not make you a hero, better than others, or somehow imbue one with great value and worth. It's entirely what you personally do.
>>27773078 This absolves members of the military of all responsibility, which goes too far.
Anyone who participates in voting legitimizes that process politically -- even if you vote against something, your participation signals acceptance in the process where results counter to your goals are still legitimate from your point of view; after all, you participated knowing it could happen.
There are multiple levels of responsibility at play. Persons who vote and provide political legitimacy to the government. Government workers for their respective roles. And of course, even the lowest military man who accepts and supports the system's edicts.
Rejection and abstention from the entire governmental process, avoiding giving it any legitimacy at all is one of the few ways to rinse one's hands of the issue. To give it no support, outside of ways individuals must support government through coercive means.
I could care less about their opinion. Just like how I could care less about some young conservatives pro military bullshit even though they never joined to contribute their cause.
What's especially annoying are vets and military members who act like they're entitled and demand respect like they're a God send. Anyone who joins the military or any other volunteer job isn't entitled to any thing. It's a job you signed up for fully aware of what it entails
You'll find it's mostly the POGs and people who haven't achieved anything that always demand it. If you go to my old battalion you'll find that none of the 0321's seek respect and attention like the majority of the support assholes.
>>27773818 I agree with the politics you gave, however I'm not suggesting that military personnel are absolved from war crimes or the like, just that there duty is to carry out the will of their country, but to be morally in the right would it be a soldiers duty to then mutiny against his government and people if the democratic decision is immoral by your reasoning? if you are suggesting that every soldier must question the morality and geopolitical impact of their orders then I'm not sure how a practically cohesive military could work with grunts constantly questioning orders, or am I way of base with what you were saying?
>>27771649 We'll send even more billions of dollars worth of wheat and cash to "enemy" countries before we lower taxes.
Hell, our (any, really) government would rather spend hundreds of millions of dollars to build a facility whose sole purpose is burning money. Literally setting it on fire. Before they give it back to the people.
>>27771729 >still have to have a standing army just in case >bitch that the standing army is used for dumb shit >MUST BE THE INDIVIDUAL SOLDIER'S FAULT OUR ELECTED POLITICIANS STUCK THEIR DICK WHERE IT DIDN'T BELONG GUISE REALLY!
What are the alternatives? Have absolutely zero standing military until we've already got enemy soldiers on US soil? That'll go well.
How about just not elect retarded politicians and actually enforce the law on when and where we can send soldiers without an official declaration of war? >yes I'm implying the War Powers Act needs to be completely scrapped and rewritten
>>27774483 >posting on an American-hosted imageboard where the overwhelming majority of posts are in English >all administrative posts and instructions are in English >can't type coherently in English He is "here" with "here" being 4chan, an English-speaking imageboard hosted in an English-speaking country where almost all content is in English.
It'd be like me going to France and being pissed nobody spoke my language.
>>27774625 Firefighters and cops take calculated risks, much like plumbers who have to go wading through your shit, construction workers in dangerous sites, or factory drones working with heavy machinery. They all take some risk, they all contribute something, and they all get paid for it.
Soldiers, in most countries at present, are in the same boat. There's a slight prospect of risk in the indeterminate future, but mostly they just go to work like anyone else.
At actual, not-just-stomping-on-sandniggers wartime, it's a different story. But when was the last time that happened to your or my country?
>>27771530 Supporting what military, what veterans, what wars, and for what cause?
Untold millions of people have worn military uniforms and fought under banners, ranging from the lowest thieving and raping dregs of the human race to men of impeccable nobility and virtue. It's entirely situational in nature; being in the military does not make you worthy of respect and support. It's the personal behaviour and character of the man that matters.
>Join the army because I come from a poor family and I want to go to college ( and be the first person in my family to do so) >A bunch of my friends turn on me >Rich liberals who had their family pay there way through college >Poor minorities with full rides who vote socialist >don't take pride in my service, feel somewhat ashamed for having to join >Family is extremely proud of me >yet so many people at my college look down on me >Even professors
>>27771530 i dont support ALL veterans, cops, firemen, teachers, republicans, democrats, blacks, whites,waitresses, ect.
I respect individuals, judging someones character by a uniform is dumb. i know lots of great guys who are vets, I know even more shitbags.
I don't mind paying for their GI bills and think they should get better VA benefits but respecting someone just cause they have authority or a uniform leads to abuse of power especially when the inevitable dickheads join up.
>>27777326 >signed a contract that included tuition payments, then utilized said benefits >completed contractual obligation by following orders of polititians that other Americans elected. Ftfy You mad that you went 30k in debt for your useless sociology degree while anon got to have fun for 4 years and then get school paid for?
I've been a military contractor for the last 5 years. Before I started working with the Military I had a lot of respect for the actual people who made up the military and a distrust of the people who led it.
Now I find that with the exception of special warfare and a few niche roles the vast majority of the military is a bunch of dummies.
I'm talking dip spitting college football enjoying F250 whipping dummies. These people are not the best and brightest,they joined because they had no other option. So much domestic violence comes from these dummies and their female dummies at home are equally trashy and dumb..
>>27775819 Im in a similar boat anonymous. I have yuppie- im sorry. HAD yuppie friends that all turned on me when they found out I was i joined the military. Im poor wtf did they expect? They didn't have much of a future after highschool like they did, and joining the military was my best option at having a productive life.
>>27777757 I've been a soldier for the last 5 years. Before I started working with military contractors I had a lot of respect for the actual people who made up military contractors and a distrust of the people who awarded them contracts.
Now I find that with the exception of food service and a few niche roles the vast majority of military contractors are a bunch of dummies.
I'm talking shit posting AR thread enjoying Condor wearing dummies. These people are not the best and brightest,they became military contractors because they had no other option. So much thread shitting comes from these dummies and their waifus online are equally trashy and dumb..
Luckily military contracting doesnt require too many smart people.
>>27771530 As a vet I honestly find it annoying when people convulsively blurt out that they support our troops. Thank you for your service (probably gonna get that spammed at me now) is equally annoying. I dont even have a reason why, i just find the whole thing irritating. Also war hawks. Some fat dumpy middle aged kook "WE SHOULD JUST GO TO WAR WITH _______ RIGHT NOW, SUPPORT OUR TROOPS! KILL EM ALL" Its always easy to send somebody else to go deal with some bullshit I guess. When I was in afganistan I used to fantasize about making such people go on a patrol or abandoning them in downtown sangin.
I dont mind people who dont like war or question the government, the government is up to shady shit. But I kinda feel like people who feel compelled to call me baby killer or welfare queen are short sighted or narrow minded and just using me as a proxy to criticize a system that they dont agree with but also dont understaalsoIts thier right to say such things but they are wasting thier effort taking it out on me. Also i think a lot of them have resentment or regrets that they never joined coupled with envy over the inordinate amount of respect that being a vet brings.
>>27779669 Word. For me it was go to the lumber mill and sweep sawdust for $7.50 an hour for the rest of my life, or join up so I could pay for college. I didnt join out of any great sense of patriotism or duty, i did it because college has essentially become an extortionate "career tax" and aside from the GI bill my only other option was to get 6 digits in debt and spend the rest of my life enslaved by a bank. Then some kid with a college trust fund and a $500 a month allowance from daddy who knows as long as he scrapes by with C's and D's his daddy's Legal firm will hire him for 80K a year right out of college is acting like its a political choice on my part. Every yuppie conversation I have had on the subject essentially boils down to "well howcome you werent born into a 100+k a year income family like me? That was stupid. Shame on you"
>>27779918 > did it because college has essentially become an extortionate "career tax" and aside from the GI bill my only other option was to get 6 digits in debt and spend the rest of my life enslaved by a bank.
God forbid you pay for an education. Maybe you should ask for a free house too so you don't get enslaved with a mortgage.
You're no different from the douchebags who deliberately default on their student loans because they believe education should be free. But at least they didn't murder anyone for Bushbama.
>>27779995 His issue is that anything other than poverty slave wage jobs "require" a college degree, and that everyone thinks the same fucking thing. You know where all the people I graduated with high school are in terms of employment right now, after 4 years and tens of thousand in debt? The same fucking place I was 4 years ago straight out of high school. Shitty entry level jobs paying minimum wage or barely above it. In part it's their problem because they made shitty decisions, but they didn't need a fucking degree to figure it out.
I'll die or kill for you if required. Doesn't even have to be sand-niggers; could just be normal niggers. Doesn't matter who you are; you could be the most Clinton-supporting liberal shitfuck in the entire country, and I'll still take a bullet for you if necessary.
>>27771530 I feel it's their right to do so if they do believe. Ironically, without those soldiers fighting and dying for that freedom, those smug edgy cunts wouldn't have the freedom to do so, but freedom is absolute.
You can't love freedom only when it coincides with your beliefs
>>27780238 >fighting and dying for that freedom Dear god, do people actually believe this unironically? Please, tell me you're joking. I bet you also think that the brown people on the other side of the world "hate us for our freedoms."
>>27771530 Depends. Of course you should support and assist your nation and army when they are in need. But sometimes your nation and army did some fucked up shit that shouldn't be supported by anyone.
However, I don't think anyone should take it out on the vets (enlisted ones) because they just did what they were told and looked out for their friends. They are the ones who pay the biggest price, because they have to live with what they did.
>>27771530 Children born in a time of peace who are spoiled and know nothing about the hardship men that fought to defend their freedom to live peaceful. It always happens to a nation that has gained peace for a while and entitled children are born who think people in the military are below them.
We really need another world war at this point or else these degenerates are going to destroy society.
I appreciate having a strong military, but it has only been used to further Israel's interest and create future enemies to fight in my lifetime. Literally only dumb ass goat fuckers mess with us, but it's because we piss them off thanks to greedy politicians. They are pawns and welfare queens and poor kids who get inflated egos because of it. Before I joined I actually had a dumb ass waiter tell me to thank him for my freedom. But I respect them for joining the military and trying to better themselves. A lot of them are stupid people who need to be told not to shove things up their asses and can't manage their money and the command is turning into a bunch of SJW faggots at the expense of a functioning fighting force.
Instead of expanding your intellect, you choose to fight and die for people who don't give a shit about you. You die for people who don't give a shit about morals and ethics. Instead of developing yourself as a person, you carry out exactly what someone else tells you to do or you'll get punished. If that doesn't make you a kek, I don't know what does.
>>27772465 > I done my time for the government and the nation, whether it be bad or good i spent my time in the machine and i feel i have earned my right to my freedoms such as mouthing off to whatever authority or higher up that may be.
This is bullshit, c'mon. You always had that right, this is what makes us "free". You don't have to serve in the army to question authority. And no, I'm not some kind of anarchist. I just think all authority should be evaluated. If you think you have more right than others to question authority because you server, then you are wrong
>>27772465 >whether it be bad or good i spent my time in the machine and i feel i have earned my right to my freedoms such as mouthing off to whatever authority or higher up that may be. >free speech is conditional upon service to the state
since 911 the us military is regarded as something special. before it was very different. people saw it as necessary but the whole hero bullshit is just a clever pr thing nowadays and people fall for it. most human beings are not very intelligent and easily fooled by pr and marketing. the military industrial complex did a good job fooling our nation into this military hero worshiping bullshit. being in the military is just a job as any other job, somebody has to do it.
When I was younger, I was a, "THANK YOU FOR YOU SERVICE" type, but that's changed. I treat every veteran differently based on a few things:
>How they're acting towards me >How obnoxious they are
When I see some 20-something private wearing his fatigues in public demanding I give him special treatment because he's a veteran, I can't help but laugh. I'm not going to give you a discount because you didn't know what to do after high school so you decided to wash floors for the Marines.
If I see a normal dude who I learn is a veteran, I ask a bit about what he's done. If he was a side gunner in a Huey during Vietnam, I'll make idle chit-chat about what that was like. The same would be true if I learned the guy worked a checkpoint in Iraq or something.
If I learn he was in the first wave on Omaha beach or was in Fallujah, I'll shake his hand and give him the respect I think he deserves.
So it really comes down to how they're acting. If they're acting like a self-entitled cunt, I'll treat them like a cunt. If they're acting like a normal human being, I'll treat them like a normal human being. If they're acting like a normal human being and they did something that I feel was truly heroic, I'll give them the respect that warrants.
>>27771530 I don't really care, they have a right to not give a shit if you served in the military. A lot of people in the military are self-entitled and obnoxious about being in the military when they haven't done anything worth mentioning
I feel like this thread implies that those in the military give a fuck about what others think of us. Honestly, I personally don't care. I signed up to do a job, I do it well, and I do it to protect my fellow servicemen. My allegiance is to the men and women I work with and that my work protects. Not to you.
>>27771530 I realized most of the pipe hitters and hadji smokers usually never wore their cammies off work, they drank alot and like to party. The usual response is it's just a job and somebodys gotta do it. So I just buy em a beer and treat em like regular people.
Now and then you get these boot fucks who show up in full cammies telling about their Service, stoically staring with that 1000 yard stare they got at MEPS thinking getting grilled for 2hrs by a di counts them as the same leauge as a E3 11b back from his third pump in shitfuckistan circa 06
I'm fine with active duty people mostly but if you've been out for 5 years and didn't do anything anyway I don't owe you shit. There's a regular at the bar I work in who always wants a discount because he's a "veteran"
Listen up fuck face you sat in an office in germany for your ENTIRE FUCKING MILITARY CAREER. Get lost.
>I am sort of left-wing (though no hipster) and yet I wonder whether or not I should follow the leftist tradition of yore and hail these freedom-fighters as my heroes.
>Should I, dear /k/?
short answer : no. long answer : fuck no.
Greeting from France, we have the same shit here. Some commies thinking they're hot shit. Some wannabees cowards that took arms when the last german fled France. And some "leftists" who were friends with Vichy and nazis. And jews who jewed everyone, including themselves.
>>27771530 Everyone supports the troops and veterans. We pay for their salaries and benefits. The way I see it, they're just doing a job. Sure, the job is dangerous. But they chose it. They choose the job they want, they make money and get benefits, so why the fuck is it so necessary for everyone to constantly remind them how loved they are?
>>27786949 Yes I do support them. They go in, many of them believing they have no other options. They don't choose their battles, only the flag they fight under. Hoping to get skills for use later in life, or maybe even hoping they die with honor so they don't have to worry about their future.
And for those who join because they have a simple blood lust, some of them might just want to get the killing out of their systems before they're released to society. If they're going to kill with the thought that any fight's a good fight, they might as well do it for their country's cause.
>>27787137 >And for those who join because they have a simple blood lust, some of them might just want to get the killing out of their systems before they're released to society. If they're going to kill with the thought that any fight's a good fight, they might as well do it for their country's cause.
>>27787363 I kinda walked into it. I'd rather stand by what I say than pretend I never said it - even if I made it too broad. I don't think I was really in a position to narrow it to what I really meant. Even if I was, I doubt I'd have the right words.
>>27787532 Remember when I said "I don't think I was really in a position to narrow it to what I really meant"? I was talking about narrowing what I said down to exclude any and all war crimes. I don't support war criminals no matter what side their on.
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