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Coast Guards?
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You are currently reading a thread in /k/ - Weapons


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What are the benefits of Coast Guards exactly?

I know full well that maritime law enforcement, S&R and traffic policing are huge. Perhaps more important to our everyday lives than any sexy massive CSG. But here's the thing.

My country, France, does not have a Coast Guard and never has. CG-style ops are divided between the Navy, Customs, the Gendarmerie maritime and a State sponsored private S&R company with Navy crew (you heard that right). The Gendarmerie maritime is part of the Gendarmerie nationale (think of a cross between MPs, Russian MVD troops and American State troopers, except with civilian law enforcement capacity) but attached to the Navy for pratical purposes.They only have less-than-100t (mostly 50t) patrol boats and are mostly used as backup for the Navy in CG ops. Usualy navy ships on CG-duty take just a single Gendarmerie officer onboard so that the VBSS and any and all perquisitions/interrogations/arrestations that may result stay lawful. They also do MP roles for the Navy (just like the good old Gendarmerie does for the Army and Air Force).

There have been decades-long talks of creating a unified US-style CG like every other country in the world has, but there's nothing a CG could do that the Navy can't at the present.

So /k/, please explain Coast Guards to me
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Your picture makes me wonder to myself: What ever became of the Escort Carrier concept? Those were cool. Kinda like how seaplane tenders were cool.

I'm sorry, this has nothing to do with your question. Good luck.
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>>32343125

We don't have a cost card as such but still have opv's and little Scimitar patrol vessels for stopping Frenchie's illegal crossing the channel.

Life saving is done by the RNLI
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>>32343137
Escoret carriers were for two things:
>give rapid-response against bombers (who had to get close to do their job)
>give rapid-response ASW capability

Now we have:
>embarked ASW helos
>better air defences on surface units, most major surface ships are focused on air defence
>faster longer-ranged missiles and planes

Also the Mistral in the top right of the pic is just a LHD, its deck is made for the attack helos attached to the embarked ground troops.
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>>32343163
So if I got you right
>coastal surveillance: RN
>drug/friendly migrants busting: Border Force
>S&R: RNLI
That's actually better and clearer than our clusterfuck. Who does the MP stuff in the Royal Navy?

Also
>ramps
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>>32343170
Huh! I'd never had it explained to me so succinctly before. Well, at least they leave a legacy of some really beautiful designs and photographs.

Thanks, anon!
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>>32343163

As far as I can tell the UK has:

The Royal Navy's fisheries protection squadron (the River OPVs) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fishery_Protection_Squadron

The Border Force Cutters. Belonging to the Home Office https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Border_Force#Vessels

The RNLI charity, which (besides inshore craft) operates small all-waether lifeboats https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shannon-class_lifeboat

Her Majesties Coastguard, another civil service organisation which coordinates SAR efforts of the above, while also contracting out for private aircraft companies to provide the aviation component. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Her_Majesty%27s_Coastguard#Equipment
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>>32343163
Whoever made that infographic is a retard.
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>>32343196

What's wrong with it?
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>>32343125
>does your country has extensive EEZ?
>does your country has abubdant natural resource within said EEZ?
>does your country has problems with people encroaching said EEZ?
>does your country's territorial coastal area extends beyond 7nm?

If not, no your country does not need a coast guard
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I wonder what it's like in the navy. It's funny; I've lived on an island my whole life, but I've never really been out to sea past the sandbar. That feels wrong, somehow.
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>>32343202
We do have all of that but everyhting is done by the Marine Nationale. My question is about the benefits of a separate independent Coast Guard.

From what I've gathered, since France's EEZ is very scattered, the Navy is prefered because it can serve a double purpose (national defence and EEZ policing)
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>>32343163

Dafuq is that infographic?

I wish it were true but every row I see more odd things. Calling minesweeper's cruisers? Wave-Class rather than Tide-Class?
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>>32343225

I always thought calling mine sweepers Cruisers was strange

they are nothing like as big as a Cruiser
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>>32343199

Everything.
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>>32343125
>France, does not have a Coast Guard

they surrendered already?
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>>32343243

come on help a brother out,

We can see that calling MCv's Cruisers is wrong

what else?
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>>32343251
The Christmas break is on, isn't it?
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>>32343199
so much.

1. HMS ilustrious was decomissioned two years ago and was sent to turkey for scrap last week.

2. HMS ocean is being decomissioned without replacement in 2018

3. By 2025 one MAYBE two Type 26 will be in service, not all of them, nowhjere near.

4. Type 31 has no schedule we'll be lucky to see it in the 2030's

5. River class are not Corvettes they are OPV's.

6. The Batch 2 River class are replacing batch 1 which will be sold. The total fleet would not be 10 (they arent even building 10) it will be 6.

7. Hunt and Sandown are minehunters, not cruisers. (and all the names are wrong)

8. There are 15 of them total not 16 this year, there will probably be close to half that in 9 years.

9. Dreadnaught class won't appear until the 2030's

10. I cant be fucked researching the rest.

Also the made up names are awful and clearly made by an uninformed English person.

(i'm aware this infographic isnt perfect but it's far better than the other one)
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>>32343187

There is also the Scottish Fisheries Protection Agency, which often carry out Coast Guard like duties too. They've got another another three ships and a bunch of aircraft.

Also amusing that the SNP whine about no Royal Navy fishery protection ships in Scotland, when Scotland has its own ones that it is the SNPs responsibility to be funding.

>>32343253

Illustrious and Ocean won't be present in 2025. There are only 3 Bays in service with the Royal Navy, not 4. Type 31 has an LCS outline there for some reason. Type 26 names are completely unknown at this point and given the first is due to enter service in 2022, I doubt there'll be 10 by 2025, more like 3-4. Type 23's will still be in service for at least 10 of them by 2025. There will be up to 6 Rivers at most by 2025, not 10, and they are OPVs, not Corvettes. There will be 12 Minesweepers in 2025, not 16 as much of their role is being replaced by autonomous USVs to be carried on more ships (Despite the hull losses, it's actually a gain in ability fleetwide due to this). They are minesweepers, not cruisers. Only one of the Dreadnought class has been named by that namesake, the other 3 aren't named yet and the first one won't even be in service until 2027, not all four by 2025. There are only 2 Wave class tankers, not 6, the remaining 4 will be the superior Tide Class. Those "auxiliary ships" will be 3 MARS SSS ships, not 5. The Survey vessels will be down to 3, not 5.

Also it's completely forgetting about HMS Protector, RFA Argus, the four Point Classes, Maersk Rapier and probably a couple other ships I'm forgetting about right now.
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>>32343272

what about this one I found
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>>32343279
That one was correct at the date it provides.
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>>32343125
There's an internationally trend of imitating the USCG, right down to the racing stripe because the USCG is just really great. They're very selectively recruited, well trained, and utterly dedicated to protecting the United States and its people, which they do with remarkable efficiency 24 hours a day, 365 days a year.

If existing organizations in France are having no trouble carrying out the missions that a coast guard would, then there's probably no need for one. Plus knock off coast guards are generally pretty poor imitations of the original. Usually they are just some kind of floating police or search and rescue services dressed up to look like ours.
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>>32343282

where did you find the 2020 one?
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>>32343253

Not him, but it's a weird mix of future and legacy equipment. Three of the classes don't even exist yet. Half the River class doesn't exist yet and they're certainly not corvettes. HMS Illustrious is on her way to the breaker yard.

It's one hellava clusterfuck.
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>>32343272
>>32343279

They're major uggos, I'd make a nice one right now but I've got a shit ton of work to finish before the Christmas party.

The USN, USN air-arm and USAF have nice ones.
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>>32343295


like this?

where do ppl get the silhouettes from?
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>>32343220
This map gotta be bullshit

Also Coast guard usually handle stuff beyond 7nm out in the sea. The reason why the coast guard is established is different between countries but generally

>to reduce workload and increase the efficiency for the navy where they can concentrate on their stated mission instead of playing police
> to reduce refit, overhaul,maintenance as well as related overhead cost of naval assets since cutters/boats coast guard can be made using commercial standards and using less sophisticated equipments
>some countries would require any military intervention to be approved by executive head of the government. Coast guard wouldn't need that because they are usually treated as LE agency instead of military branch
>to prevent unnecesary regional conflict since military intervention might be interpreted as warmongering action and could strain diplomatic relation
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>>32343305

Make em or steal from Google.
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>>32343286
There's a clue in the picture buddy.

You shouldn't worry so much about hulls. The regeneration to the RN is coming through ship and weapon capability, not ship numbers.

In the next 10 years we have (and some already)
>F35
>P8
>T45 getting its 16 MK41 strike length cells
>T23 getting new missiles, radar, electronics and sonar
> Continued roll out of Astute
>LRASM
>possibly JSM for F35
>New bases and infrastructure east of suez
>BMD Aster 30
>various exciting unmanned projects in the sea and air

The future is very bright for the RN, the only two issues might be T31 design and numbers, combined with possible issues with HMS Ocean being retired.
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>>32343125
My dad was Coast Guard.

The purposes are mostly civilian. Fishing idiots out of the water or ice, and enforcing immigration and smuggling laws are what they're for. I don't think they'd be much help at all actually "guarding the coast" against an invasion. They just structure themselves like a military branch so they can get shit done better, and it works.
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>>32343305

Notice how the ships are missing below the waterline?

Good chance someone got a full-size picture of the ship at right angles, then put it in photoshop with a layer over the top and just coloured in the whole ship.

Then when you shrink it down to that size all the errors correct themselves (might need to delete some funny looking antenna).

Then you take the outline layer and do whatever with it.
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>>32343332
Source for the Mk41, LRASM and the BMD Aster 30?
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>>32343310
Why is it bullshit?

Your PR and political points are solid.
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>>32343350

I dunno where he got the Mk41 and LRASM, but the Aster 30 Block 1 was referred to in a joint thing with France, where they were considering Brimstone for the Tiger Mk3, while the UK in return considered Aster-30 Block 1 for BMD on the Daring class.

Can't find it again, but I know that at least existed. No further news since though.
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>>32343332
>>32343350

That mk41 and LRASM rumour was started by UK Defence Journal, I tried to trace back the source of the article but I was given something from 2015.
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The Canadian coast guard tends to do what most people in the west think of when it comes to coast guard. Patrol territorial waters, render aid to ships in distress, clear ice in the arctic, and generally facilitate the government's efforts to monitor and run tests on the ecology (ie: fish stocks, climate change, etc.).

The US tends to do much the same (except they can't have beer on their coast guard ships, kek), but because of the large drug smuggling problem from down south, they also get into firefights with cartel goons and other folks. For stuff like that the Canadian navy, or RCMP would be called in (though the RCMP would end up using the coast guard's boat, of course).
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>>32343202
Nigga, France has the second largest EEZ in the world, not far behind the US.
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>>32343350
T45 was designed from the outset to have space to add 16 strike length VLS cells.

There have been several rumours in recent weeks about MK41 and the RN, mainly because stuff is about to be announced for T26. However with harpoon being retired in 2018 there seems to be a good chance T45 will get its MK41's and LRASM.


https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/lrasm-type-26-frigate-fleet/
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>>32343375
it's the largest actually.

Followed by USA, Australia, Russia and the UK.
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>>32343390

Of the three things that needs to happen with the adding the mk41 should be the bottom item.

I'm going to assume that the new diesel engine(s?) and whatever reconfiguration they need to do will happen at the same time. Fitting CEC should top fitting mk41.
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>>32343425
>Of the three things that needs to happen with the adding the mk41 should be the bottom item.

Pardon?

>>32343425
>I'm going to assume that the new diesel engine(s?) and whatever reconfiguration they need to do will happen at the same time. Fitting CEC should top fitting mk41.

The power issues are non-essential (even with these issues T45 had a 95% availability, which shits over other modern western ships) They are also not relevant to combat operations - hence why the are being addressed in an already planned refit.

I'm not sure what you mean by CEC.

MK41 becomes a priority before 2018 so we can replace harpoon. With orders due to be placed for T26 and its selection of weapons we would be best to place a larger order that reduces the cost of MK41 for T45.
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>>
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>>32343310
Kek what kind of military that need approval from head of gubmint? Here the military is more proactive
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>>32343461

Ah, that make sense and sorry, I'm on mobile thus difficult for me to type things coherently.

By CEC, I mean:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cooperative_Engagement_Capability

Fitting CEC should be a higher priority than fitting mk41 inmho.
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>>32343491
Do you live in military-ruled shithole, anon?
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>>32343342
>I don't think they'd be much help at all actually "guarding the coast" against an invasion.
In that scenario they would be transferred to the Department of the Navy for better coordination and used for littoral combat.
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Ours is kind of funny. It's said to be an independent civil organization but it's under operational control of Dutch Navy and does not have it's own ships or helicopters, instead they are made available by several ministries:
>Ministry of Infrastructure and Environment supplies the main patrol vessels, salvage vessels and buoy tenders
>Ministry of Defence supplies a MCM vessel, Dornier aircrafts and NH-90/Dauphin helicopters (more equipment upon request)
>Ministry of Safety and Justice supplies police surveillance vessels and AW139 helicopters
And on top of that they work closely with some private salvage companies and the Royal Netherlands Sea Rescue Institution that supply dozens of lifeboats along the coast.

The Dutch Caribbean Coast Guard does have its own ships (2 cutters), helicopters (2x AW139), planes (2x Dash-8) and a couple of RHIBs, plus a ship from the Dutch Navy that is permanently stationed there, which is mostly used to combat drug trafficking together with the American coast guard.
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>>32343500
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>>32343461
>The power issues are non-essential (even with these issues T45 had a 95% availability, which shits over other modern western ships) They are also not relevant to combat operations - hence why the are being addressed in an already planned refit.

I've seen this stated several times but haven't seen a source for it, would you be able to provide it?
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>>32343278
>Scottish Fisheries Protection Agency
3 MPVs & 2 aircraft (cessna's), all unarmed. Scottish Parliament is still playing nice with the British for some reason and not just arming them & tripling their number.
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>>32343667
This should be good.
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>>32343730

No, I believe it. However, if I'm arguing it with others I need to have a source.
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>>32343305
For whatever reason that chart skipped over and exluded LPD-20 USS Green Bay
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>>32343305

Speaking in ships in general, pic of USS Mason being towed into Belfast. Buddy sent it to me.
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>>32343181
The regulating branch (though think now called Royal Navy Police). Ships maintain bording teams from their own personal but serious VBSS stuff I'd done by a specific RM unit called Fleet Protection Group.
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>>32343679
Becouse they lost the referendum. The Unionist side has there vote split between 3 parties where as independence supporters all vote for the SNP. Most scots do not want independance
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>>32343878
are you in Australia?
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>>32343667
>>32343730

http://www.savetheroyalnavy.org/putting-the-type-45-propulsion-problems-in-perspective/

>The MoD states that “A Type 45 has never been forced to return to port because of a lack of power or propulsion.”

>The WR-21 GTs were designed in an international partnership with Rolls Royce and Northrop Grumman Marine Systems. The turbines are of a sound design but have an intercooler-recuperator that recovers heat from the exhaust and recycles it into the engine, making it more fuel-efficient and reducing the ship’s thermal signature. Unfortunately the intercooler unit has a major design flaw and causes the GTs to fail occasionally.

Northrop Gruman intercoolers are the problem.
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>>32344026

I'm well aware what causes it to trip, however I'm asking about the single engine running.
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>>32343995

ye
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>>32343125

I've never really understood why the Navy and Coast Guard need to be separate organizations.

Is the idea that if the Navy were given the coast guard mission, they would neglect it because they wouldn't want to spend money on lightly armed patrol vessels?
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>>32344101
>I've never really understood why the Navy and Coast Guard need to be separate organizations.
Navy is miltary, coast guard is civilian authorities. So, like MPs and regular popo.
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>>32344158
The coast guard is a military branch, but it answers to DHS instead of the pentagon most of the time.

It also focuses on policing, rescue and conservation rather than combat. Regular military can't act as police unless there's a big emergency.
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>>32343202
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>>32345623
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>>32343125
And to answer seriously the CG missions in France are done by navy vessels with OPJ (gendarmerie) onboard, the maritime gendarmerie being limited to harbours and shores in mainland.
S&R missions are done by private vessels at the disposal of the préfectures, like the famous pic related.
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>>32343125
Also the Affaires Maritimes and the SNSM.

I think it's because of historical factors. France used existing assets instead of creating a new organization, and as a result rebuilding the system from scratch now would be very expensive. Also, France loves interdepartmental structures.
Decolonization and lack of interest in the sea prevented the continued existence of a Ministry of the Sea after ww2, that probably helped.
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>>32343125
I know the USCG also does things like icebreaking in the Arctic and monitoring waste radiation
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>>32345645
Why does Poland own part of the Indian ocean?
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>>32346952
That's Monaco...
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>>32345645
I love how all the blobs look like countries that are under construction or something.
>cyberpunk future where new countries are literally made thanks to advanced terraforming and future shit when?
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>>32344101
To get on that sweet DoD money train.

>>32344195
>tfw never live in an alternate universe where every organization is ultra militarized and the Coast Guard is a heavily armored and more defensive based naval armada. With thousands of floating railgun battleships, missile loaded arsenal ships, and semi mobile floating fortress/monitor ships with energy weapons (akin to warship gunner).
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>>32346952
>Indonesia
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