>>5038162 >Being trans doesn't make you a good, conscientious, or intelligent person. It just make you trans. Not enough people on this board realize this. It also goes the other way, it doesn't make you any of the slew of negative shit that gets tossed at trans people all the time on here. Jenner is a cunt and a hypocrite and deserves no respect, but now the shitty thing is there are tons of idiots on here who are going to use her bullshit stances to justify their transphobia.
>literally killed an old woman (there is clear video of it) and got off scot free >doesn't support marriage equality >Republican >Christian >profiting of the the struggle of trans women >only doing ^ because they're already a multimillionaire celebrity >also, above all else - creepy HON transbian
>>5038052 shes not a transgender person hes a fucking rich transvestite with too much money and grasped at a random fucking solution and poured all of their money in behind it with a mountain of SJWs backing her sick degeneracy up. She's literally the worst thing to happen to transgender people since dragqueens. Now we get so much fucking hate because all these fucking disgusting 60 year old men in drag are dragging our movement into the fucking ground as if it wasnt already with their craigslist fetishism.
>>5038211 >shes not a transgender person >hes a fucking rich transvestite
Not so fast hon. While TransJenner is a terrible person, you have some false assumptions about them. It's actually kinda annoying how so many people have these despite them giving a tell all interview to Diane Sawyer that apparently nobody watched.
Jenner was diagnosed with GID in the 80s and was on hormones back then, but de-transitioned due to social pressure. He even came out to his, then wife, who flipped shit and eventually divorced him over it.
I'm not going to grill Jenner over this, since this was the 80s and being trans was pretty much a death sentence, and they were already in the public eye, adding even more pressure.
>dragging our movement into the fucking ground
You're obviously very young since you cleary have no idea how much better things have gotten for trans people in recent years compared to years prior. Y'know you gotta be over 18 to post here right?
Trans acceptance has grown more in the last three years than it has in the prior 30 years. This is thanks, in part, to Jenner. He is a celebrity, his transition was public, and people have overall been very supportive. Even fucking Kanye West is supportive! In 2005 you never would have found a big mainstream rapper publicly supporting a family member transitioning.
These are exciting and progressive times for trans people. I for one am happy. Even if TransJenner can be cringe inducing, I'll take the bad with the good.
Its amazing to me how someone in the public eye leading the charge for the trans community can not be supportive of same sex marriage but want america to be supportive of her..."She" was with a woman for years so regardless how biologically Cait was made does that not constitute a same sex relationship?
>>5038256 >It's actually kinda annoying how so many people have these despite them giving a tell all interview to Diane Sawyer that apparently nobody watched.
It's actually kinda annoying how you believe everything you hear from some washed up jock pulling his last publicity stunt. You're no better than some dumbshit watching any other news media and eating up whatever diarrhea they decide is relevant for the day.
>allegedly starts to transition, then stops because of peer pressure
You're actually defending that?
>Trans acceptance has grown more in the last three years than it has in the prior 30 years. This is thanks, in part, to Jenner.
In what world do you live? If anything, Jenner's story is causing insurmountable damage. It's making a mockery of people who deserve to be interviewed about their successful transition, rather than a rich guy taking some drugs and letting his hair grow out. Jenner lacks any sort of femininity whatsoever.
>>Trans acceptance has grown more in the last three years than it has in the prior 30 years. This is thanks, in part, to Jenner.
>In what world do you live? If anything, Jenner's story is causing insurmountable damage This. In the months since the Diane Sawyer interview, violence against trans women has spiked majorly. I don't want to say it's all her fault... but it's probably all her fault.
>>5038333 http://www.advocate.com/transgender/2015/07/27/these-are-trans-women-killed-so-far-us-2015 >At press time, 19 transgender women have been murdered this year alone ... That exceeds the number of transgender women killed in the U.S. in all of 2014
>>5038581 >19/350,000 trans women murdered annually >.005% Oh come on. Major math fail.
The article was written in the end of July, it's talking about the number of trans women murdered in a 7-month period. If you extrapolate that figure into a yearly mean, it averages out to ~32.57 murders per year.
Thus- 32.57/350,000 trans woman murdered annually = ~0.009%
That's more than double the murder rate of the general population you dumbass.
>>5038115 That's the problem. Bruce is a tourist, he didn't even go through with sex-reassignment surgrey so not only is he what you fags claime to be a "poser" but he's LITERALLY just a autogynophile at this point.
Traps are pathetic caricatures of human beings who are so dead inside the only way they feel wanted is to have their holes fucked but at least they're not deluded about it.
>>5038581 >>5038831 The best estimates at the minute for the number of trans people is actually 700,000, and its not a 50 50 split of mtf and ftms
>>5038831 >If you extrapolate that figure into a yearly mean, it averages out to ~32.57 murders per year. No. You can't know at this point that there will be any more trans people murdered. Is it likely there will be more? Yes. But you can guarantee it. Theres 3 months left of the year, there could be anywhere between 0 and 700,000 trans murders in this time,
You can't imagine numbers with this sort of thing.
>>5038906 Nah definitely a fetish. He comes out as trans, and what the first thing he does? Slap on some fake kitties and get his picture taken. And when he talks about men, he's not talking about physical attraction at all, he talks about being submissive to them, because thats the thing, its a sex fantasy where he gets dominated by a real man, and behaves like how he thinks a woman should be.
>>5038052 I think that you'll find this a little odd, but I have a similar thing.
Here me out. I'm gay/bi, I'm not sure, but I'm one of em. I've fucked two dudes like 50+ times and it's been fucking great, and a girl a couple of times, but anyway.
This is how I view it. Stop fucking with their religion. Seriously. You need to start with baby steps, and the rest will come later. First you say "we want equal rights" and you get equal rights. Then the ability to adopt kids - you get it. Then, you want a religion to change its entire beliefs just to cater to your sexuality? I don't get it. You don't ask Muslims to take their vales off because it's their religious right, you don't ask Jews to take their hats off again - because it's their religious right. Then, you say to the Catholics and Christians, "WE WANT MARRIAGE BETWEEN TWO GUYS/GIRLS TO BE LEGALISED EVEN THOUGH YOUR RELIGION DOESN'T BELIEVE IN THAT!!!"
It doesn't make sense, at least to me. Just be happy with a partner that you love - you don't have to marry them. Marriage sucks, all it does is increases your tax and lowers your pension payout. Don't bother, stay as lovers, not as husband/husband or wife/wife.
>>5038162 >Being trans doesn't make you a good, conscientious, or intelligent person. It just make you trans.
This is true and to add to it... if you conclude that you're trans and then come out, most of us would expect that you've been through therapy, been completely honest with yourself, explored trans issues, maybe even participated in the community on a board like this or an old-school in-person support group.
Through all of this, if you get to the point where you conclude that you're trans, it should also have taught you very basic things about humanity and trans (+LGB) people as humans. So people are rightly upset with her because she appears to have learned nothing of the sort, as evidenced by opinions like this one on gay marriage.
It just seems like she decided she was trans, spent money to "become a woman" and never gave it a second thought. The learning she's doing now, if she actually is learning, is the stuff she should have learned LONG before deciding to transition, even before concluding that she was definitely trans.
My Irish Catholic grandma just asked me recently if I watch Jenner's show, then she told me she tried but thinks Jenner is a horrible role model, an awful representative, and a bad person. I told her most of us feel the same.
>>5039014 Do i really have to tell you how ca speed and murder rates are not similar? Its far more like miles travelled and murders committed, your car may have travelled 19 miles so far, but some months it moves more than others. In total it has travelled 19, but not at a regular pace. If the car stops completely, or slows down, then you are completely wrong with your prediction
>>5038052 at first I couldn't believe it but then I remembered that transgirls are fucking crazy and things started making sense again.
too bad Ellen is a nice person. I would have loved to see her BTFO by her.
>>5038081 as someone who's only started browsing this board a few months ago this board has negatively impacted my view on the transgender. too many stupid cunts on here, sorry anon but you guys do it to yourselves.
>>5039058 pretty sure Caitlyn still has that big 'ol Bruce cock.
>>5039117 >as someone who's only started browsing this board a few months ago this board has negatively impacted my view on the transgender. too many stupid cunts on here, sorry anon but you guys do it to yourselves. You realize that this goes the same for you, right? This is 4chan, people come here to voice their shitty opinions. Do I get to claim all gay men are sexist perverted nazis, lesbians are all man-hating radical feminists and straight men are creepy and crave trans girl dick just because that's how people behave on here? Of course I don't that's beyond fucking insane that's fucking retarded. Are you a retard, anon?
>>5038831 Lel, even if that were true, if by this rudimentary, assumption-based stats estimate you could figure out the murder rate for trans people, it pales in comparison for the murder rate for black people, which is 31.67 per 100,000, or .03%.
Either way you slice it, trans people aren't murdered at unreasonably high rates.
>>5039151 What do you mean "keep trying"? I'm a gay cis white male. I have no claim to oppression. I prefer just calling other peopel who do claim oppression out on their bullshit.
It sucks to be trans, I have no doubt of that. But the whole "we get murdered so much omg" is a stupid statistic in the United States. In other countries, yeah. They get murdered a lot. But hey, so do gays.
>>5039129 >this is 4chan, people come here to voice their shitty opinions
you just answered your own question. sorry if you find what I said to be harsh but it's the truth. yes of course not all transpeople are crazy, and I never meant to imply that, but I've certainly come across a whole new level of "crazy" since coming here. the double standards.... the special snowflakes...leaps of logic and mental gymnastics that go on here... it's mind numbing at times.
>>5039099 You are painfully stupid. The number of trans murders, ftm and mtf, in the US, each year, are under 20 annually. There's been 19 so far this year, they are not connected, and more murders in any given slice of the year doesn't guarantee more murders in the rest of the year. You weren't trying to look at 7 month periods, if you had, the numbers would have been smaller, not larger. Instead you used 19 to make a complete guess about what the numbers could be later on. Then you compared it to something completely different to the point you're so desperate to make.
Youre trying to put the square peg through the round hole and laughing when someone explains why it doesn't work.
>>5039181 Like feminist rape statistics, trans murder rates are over inflated lies to concern people and make them take action. Trans people are 0.3% of the US population and they're 0.1% of the murders
>>5039375 >Who in their right mind would support gay marriage? Or any marriage? People who want to get married, probably. Are you really so immature that you can't comprehend other people having different thoughts/desires than you?
The divorce rate may be 50%, but that means 50% of marriages don't end in divorce, m8.
I really don't know or don't care whether Jenner is legitimate or just having a hard time breaking 45 years of mannerisms as an adult, being an ass about these things is sadly something older trans women seem not to understand at all, along with this idea that everyone has it easy because they've got money and shit. But sadly shitting on Jenner trickles down to us.
I try not to judge older transitioners on a lot of things, I can't imagine having to break through the amount of repression needed to be like that, a few are less repressed than perpetually depressed and femme but it's pretty rare. A lot of them are creeps though tbh.
>>5039074 My grandmother, thankfully, has never heard of Jenner but she was born and grew up in Europe.
> implying that the reason marriage is ridiculous is because of divorce
> implying that self-hating gays feeling the need to imitate a tradition that's a legacy of women being regarded as legal property (all power to them if it makes them feel more secure, but a shame about the rest of us who don't get to be "respectable" in the eyes of straight people) makes the institution itself any less ridiculous
>>5039427 >Legally pooling your resources and gaining tax benefits from the government >Ridiculous
And could you please tell me what a "legacy" has to do with marriage as it currently is? Are you honestly that irrational? People behave in ways that maximize their personal utility. Why are you so bitter that some people get more out of marriage than you think you would?
>>5039542 >Attributing any conflicting opinion to jealousy Literally where did I imply jealousy whatsoever?
>Implying that people should behave solely to maximise personal utility and that there's no such thing as ideology or morality People adopt the ideology or morality that best maximizes their utility given imperfect information.
>Implying that the government has any business in "incentivizing" a particular way of life on the basis of majority prejudice The family unity is actually pretty important. Not in teh way social conservatives typically think it is, but if you want to see the long-term effects of single-parent households, I'd invite you to take a gander at the black community since the war on drugs began.
>Not addressing the fact that we're only (and only just) "acceptable" if we conform to all of the other societal norms, rather than, you know, being "permitted" to be different. What are you even blathering about? If you want to live in a special snowflake pansexual menage a tois and dye your hair pink and blue, nobody's going to stop you. But you shouldn't expect to be accepted into mainstream society. That's simply not how human beings work. We're inherently tribal creatures. There will always be in and out groups. If you think abolishing marriage would somehow remove that, you're either comically naive or just stupid.
>>5039427 The fact that governments have allowed a religious rite to enter politics is the reason why it is an issue. If marriage stayed within religion no one would give a shit what religion did. As an american i thought our government was supposed to have separation of church and state but that isn't the case for a lot of topics like marriage. Once you bring somthing like marriage into the government for people to utilize then that means everyone has the right to do it and the religious nut jobs can't see that.
>>5039650 >If marriage stayed within religion no one would give a shit what religion did. Marriage was never primarily religious. The churches considered it a minor sacrament (which some protestant denominations forgot even existed until the 19th century), it was always mostly important because the churches had immense government functions prior to the 19th century in most of the west and its roots in christianity and islam are mostly due to the encroachment of religion on government in the first place.
>>5038052 <Maximum Overtroll> This is proof that her transition is complete. The first step was to sacrifice another slut to show that she can be a Mean Girl. This is a twofer. The second part was to prove that she can be a shitty driver like every other vaginal jew. Then she sluts herself on a magazine cover. And finally she has to run her mouth and say stupid shit on tee vee and it is complete. </Maximum Overtroll>
>>5039966 >The nuclear family created the single parent. Now I'll agree with that, but there's more than just the nuclear family responsible for why people in the West spread apart. Rugged individualism isn't the result of a nuclear family.
And what are you talking about societies with nuclear families being as dysfunction as societies with single parents? What society even falls into the latter category?
>>5040019 >Rugged individualism isn't the result of a nuclear family. It pretty much is. Rugged individualism as a societal ideal was invented during the modern period and backported on older societies. Largely rugged individualism as an ideal was born from the gilded age. Yet the main areas of socialist agitation in the US, major industrial ports aside, were the last parts of the frontier.
It was never seen as an ideal in Europe, where the west was born and its main pole still until well into the 20th century.
>>5038256 >It's actually kinda annoying how so many people have these despite them giving a tell all interview to Diane Sawyer that apparently nobody watched.
I did watch it. It was cringy as fuck. Deep male bass voice and all. Have you seen Jazz? Jazz is obviously transgender. That bearded man lady isnt trans either just a disgusting transvestite going for shock value with muh beard.
>Jenner was diagnosed with GID in the 80s and was on hormones back then, but de-transitioned Yeah cause hes not really transgender just wants to be a fat rich white republican but now has enough of a pity party to have his fetish accepted under the false guise of the transgender movement.
>Trans acceptance has grown more in the last three years than it has in the prior 30 years. No it hasn't changed at all. it's worse if anything. Everyone just sees these disgusting manly hons everywhere now crying about their disgusting bathroom priviledges being fucking sick looking weirdos dragging their crossdressing fetish into everything. People think we are disgusting as fuck. Maybe a few isolated people on the internet who've researched us know we aren't all 60 year old crossdressing bearded sean conneries but 99% of people dont see us that way. Everyone is just supporting it because they dont want negative PR. It has virtually nothing to do with their personal feelings or reality.
Not to mention the whole muh 65 years as a trans person. Every trans person I've met has attempted suicide many times, has been hospitalized, is an extreme cutter, or drug abuser, is mentally unstable from years and years of torture, or currently has a suicide plan. 65 years my mother fucking ass.
>>5039731 Don't worry Caitlyn is strong and beautiful and transitioning is more important than voice. Voice lessons are expensive too. Im sure once she's saved up money enough to pay for speech therapy OH WAIT SHE HAS HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF FUCKING DOLLARS AND HAS 65 YEARS TO FIGURE IT OUT AND CHOOSES NOT TO DO IT. trutrans™
I mostly agree except for this. 30 years ago it, visibility was limited 100% to 40+ year old bearded fetish man hons (including crossdressers and transvestites). all that did was propagate the problem. Very few knew you could do anything like HRT/ passing, cracking when they were past 40 and just fucking doing "whatever" and becoming another hon.
It's better today in 2015 partly because of the advancing medical field, mostly because of the internet. There are actual timelines people post where the 'guy' looked hopeless and then turns into a cute looking chick. Now we know we can transition young, some transition well and set a good example for the next transitioners. Nobody born after 1990 should be transitioning past 30.
It's all out there now, people know it's possible to turn out good. 30 years ago, you had to be real fucked up to want the hon "results" that you commonly saw. So most trans people just assumed they weren't really trans, since they didn't want that.
>>5042383 Wow, I had no idea people just asserting that you're wrong, means you're wrong.
Here's an article that explains why 700,000 trans people is in fact our best estimate, and there's a variety of links to how we reached that number: http://www.livescience.com/50635-bruce-jenner-transgender-prevalence.html
Here's the same information, but with some other figures that might put things in context for you: http://www.timesunion.com/local/article/Transgender-by-the-numbers-2342726.php
And here's an article, again explaining the origin of the estimate, but paying particular attention to why the number is probably significantly higher than 700,000: http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/why-we-dont-know-the-size-of-the-transgender-population/
>>5043208 Actually pretty proud, I did the math on this months ago, using 2013 statistics, and people have picked up on it, obviously. For those of you who missed it:
US population: 320,000,000
Trans population is 0.3% US trans population: 960,000
Number of US murders 2013: 14,196 Number of US trans murders 2013: 16
Chance of being murdered i the US: 0.0044% Chance of trans person being murdered: 0.0017%
Its undeniable. You can fuck with the numbers all you like. Use the lower estimate of 700,000. Halve the trans population, because you only want to look at MTFs. All it does it put the figure at 0.0046%. That is not statistically significant Whats more, its intellectually dishonest. If you're going to halve the trans population to look at either MtFs of FtMs, then you also have to only look at the murders of men or women in the wider population. Plus 700,000 is admitted to be an underestimate by the people who made it.
Trans people are not at a higher risk of being murdered, you can't deny the facts
>>5043859 Its worth adding too, that if you look at the proportion, 16 out of 14,196 murders were of trans people. Thats around 0.1%. Trans people are around 0.3% of the population, but they're 0.1% of murders. I just think that figure is a bit easier to get your head around because its not talking about the chance of getting murdered, it just illustrates trans people are not killed proportionally, they're actually murdered 3 times less than they mathematically should be.
>>5043874 Yup, but she still claims to be straight last I heard despite being attracted to women. It's like a fucked up mix of homophobia and transphobia. She doesn't seem to realize that trans women are women (since she thinks she's straight for liking women) and she doesn't seem to realize the hypocrisy of her stance on gay marriage. All around shitty human being.
>>5043918 Thats because he's a filthy fetishist. But you're not allowed to say that. He says he's trans and it'd be discrimination to point out he obviously isn't.
One thing I would say however, being the only trans person most of my friends know, they really take my word on anything trans related. When I tell them Jenner is a dirty fetishist they don't argue it in the slightest. Unlike here, where other dirty fetishists, and people too stupid to question the world around them, jump at the chance to defend a 65 man who uses a movement to justify jacking off in his wife's panties.
>>5043956 I suppose you really have to know how trans people feel I gave up competitive sports in my teens because it became very gender segregated. I did a couple sports, but obviously swimming in particular made me uncomfortable. I also did fencing for years, but I didn't like how it built up muscle I can't for a second imagine going on to become a fucking olympic athlete. Having such a masculine body, and then competing with men, as a man Then he allegedly got on hormones in the 80's, but quit. Why? He obviously didn't come out at all, taking hormones is something you can do and still present as male, so Jenner's fan boys are stretching the truth to say that the 80's were a bad time to transition. He didn't have to. However, the general consensus seems to be if you take hormones and you're not trans, you'll feel like shit. Thats what I suspect happened to Jenner. The man fathered 7 kids for christ sake. I don't know any trans person that could manage that. In fact the trans people I know hate even getting their dick touched There's several accounts of Jenner stealing clothes from the women in his life. I think one of the Kardashian bitches mentioned he stole her dress, and his wife has said he repeatedly stole her underwear. There's something just not right about stealing his wife's underwear, it sounds so suspicious He managed to reach 65. He claims to have had depression now, but what evidence is there? Most trans people don't make it far out of their teens if they can't transition. Honestly, if you can make it past 25 without transitioning or killing yourself, something's not right. But making it past 60? I can't even imagine. Watching yourself age as a man for decades. No chance I think he got old, and in his celebrity culture of plastic surgery, it seemed logical to try and look young and attractive, surrounded by these women he lusts after, stealing their clothes, they're attractive, to be attractive he should become like them
The first thing he does, is get fake tits and get on magazine covers, to satisfy his exhibitionist fantasies, to be seen and feel desired by people. He flashed his son his new tits for Christ sake.Thats beyond abnormal. He then goes on to make a show about it all. Because thats the culture he's in, you show yourself off all them time, be in the spotlight doing something outrageous Then you have the way he talks about men, he's not attracted to them, he's attracted to the thought of being dominated and made to submit to a male. Like people with sissy fantasies. The people his shitty show payed to pretend to be his trans friends, have all come out and said Jenner hasn't got a clue about being trans. Its like he doesn't know how it feels to be trans. And thats before you consider his right wing views and generally not giving a shit about LGBT people
The funny thing is, I was calling Jenner a fetishistic liar from the start. Many of the people on this board heavily defended Jenner and said I was crazy for saying he was going to be detrimental to trans people. And look where we're at. Exactly what I said was going to happen, happened. Jenner put himself in the spotlight claiming to be trans to justify his fetish, spreading misinformation about trans people cos he isnt one, and since him coming out and trying to get as much attention as possible, trans murders have spiked. Its correlates perfectly, the start of the year was average for trans murders, and Jenner creates his media circus and the murder rate goes up. So well done Bruce, your fetish has killed people.
After season 1 ends, the show gets quietly cancelled (last I heard the ratings went to shit by episode 2). 6 months to a year after that she ends up detransitioning. It will start the same: tabloid photos of her coming out of a "sex change clinic" this time with her implants removed, she stops wearing makeup, cuts her hair shorter, then after a couple visits maybe her face starts getting a little more masculine.
She gets questioned all over again and eventually goes on a less-publicized news program to come out. He talks about the journey and process of transitioning and how he found it wasn't for him. He mentions that she "learned so much" (but not what) and how brave and strong "transgendered" people [alt: transgenders] are. He talks about how the media really swept him up, and it was hard to sit and really think hard about it. "It seemed like the right decision at the time." He views it as an experiment that didn't work out.
We learn that he was detransitioning even while the show was still airing, back to being a man at home with the cameras gone. He only kept up the public appearance because it would hurt the show.
He wants to put it all behind him and go back to being a wealthy white man in the wealthy white men's club. Because of his wealth, he can for the most part, at least in the boys clubs. He lifts his standing by shaking his head and giving the people around him "inside info" on how depraved and disgusting "trannies" are. They poke fun of him for that phase, and he takes it because at least it means he's accepted.
>>5044391 This. The media blew this up so fucking huge and it's inevitable failure will cause huge backlash against transgender people. Hell, it's already happening. Then he goes on fucking Ellen and alienates LGB people nationwide, when transgender people already have a shaky alliance with LGB people.
I defended his AGP ass once but fuck him. The best we can hope for is for him to quietly fade into obscurity, then die of silicon poisoning or something.
>>5044391 What do you think will happen when you defend Jenner? You just ensure he continues acting the way he already has
Its time to lose the hons. Their legitimacy in the first place is questionable, but the image they perpetuate is a stereotype, and blatantly harmful. They are why when people think "trans" they think "man in a dress" We need to support younger transitioners who pass. Hell, even just someone like Jamie Clayton is hundreds of times better for the trans image. We shouldn't support people who are bad for us.
>>5044574 Think it was actually an old woman he killed. But I don't give a fuck if his reckless driving got someone killed. He's trying to be the face of a movement he isn't a part of and he's getting far more people killed by it.
>>5039072 As has been said, allowing same-sex couples to legally marry, in itself, doesn't infringe on anyone's religious liberty or beliefs. It neither obliges nor forbids any private person from doing anything--unlike the examples you cite. I would maintain that if the state excludes a certain class of people--like same-sex couples--from a certain institution, there should be a non-religious justification. And more than that, I don't know how you can blame a group asking for inclusion in such a civil institution, if they see no good reason for their being excluded. I do think it's a interesting question whether civil marriage should exist, but what you've said isn't pertinent to that. Also, Caitlyn didn't imply that her past opposition to SSM was religiously motivated, so this is irrelevant I suppose.
>you don't have to marry them You may have a point. In America something like 80% of people marry by age 40. It seems like people say this sideways-glancing stuff about gays wanting to marry, but then in most of society everyone and their dog is marrying and no one would ever give a fuck or inquire about their motives. But that's just how it seems to me.
(But my real, if tentative, position is that ideally civil marriage should be dismantled.)
>>5045599 No they were shitting on all trans people thanks to RadFems. Late transitions are horrendous for the trans image, they need to stop taking the public eye. We need to focus more on younger transitions, that pass well, so we can show trans people are like anyone else. They're not weird old men in dresses.
>>5045679 >Late transitions are horrendous for the trans image, they need to stop taking the public eye
They're the ones who have the money to transition and not cripple themselves financially so if you really want better trans representation you should be funding age-reversing regenerative medicine. A 19 year old permaNEET isn't going to be able to afford to transition, nor will they be articulate enough to be in the public spotlight and not destroy your image
>>5045714 >They're the ones who have the money to transition and not cripple themselves financially Typical American can't think outside their own country >age-reversing regenerative medicine. near enough impossible >A 19 year old permaNEET isn't going to be able to afford to transition, Not true. But even if it were, then simply someone who fucking can afford to transition young. Jazz for example. Being rich isn't a prerequisite of being famous, that vile Honey Boo Boo and her walrus of a mother are more than enough evidence of that >nor will they be articulate enough to be in the public spotlight and not destroy your image Lets not have a fucking NEET then. Jamie Clayton transitioned before she was 20, and she's now in her 30's looks really good (though her skin is awful), is dating Keanu Reeves, and has only just become noticeable as an actress.
>>5045799 Good for you. Now outside the UK and the incredibly control freak system the NHS has in place (have fun trying to see certain specialists with a GD diagnosis on file), it's only been covered very recently in much of the world if it's even covered at all yet.
I was in my mid twenties by the time it was even remotely covered where I am, and I started hormones in my teens. Figuring out the process for the coverage to work took another 2 years.
I'm not defending Jenner, but at least have some perspective.
Im just being practical, sorry if it hurts your feels to be realistic about our situation. The only reason I can think that someone would have an issue with what I say, is if they are one of the hons fucking the trans image
Everyone's saying she's a disgusting fetishist and all this and that she's damaging to the trans community, but do you all realize how fucking terrible it would be if she detransitioned? It would be a giant reiteration of that whole "hurr trans people aren't real muh i want to be a cat does that make me a cat analogy durr hdurr" idea that so many cis people have. I don't even care if she is just a fucking crossdresser as long as she keeps her damn mouth shut I don't fucking care. I'd be happier if she killed herself due to the immense regret and confusion before she detransitioned, we're all FUCKED if she does that.
>>5039072 Well, if they kept their religion to themselves, then we wouldn't have to fuck with it. His religion forbids gays? Fine. He can just go and, like... not be gay or something. He doesn't get to dictate that to other people.
>>5050374 >but do you all realize how fucking terrible it would be if she detransitioned? That wouldn't be a fucking concern if Jenner hadn't forced himself in the spotlight to begin with! He could have kept his creepy little fantasy to himself entirely. Or at the very least, not done interviews, photo shoots, and a fucking tv show. >as long as she keeps her damn mouth shut Which he isn't doing. Its too fucking late for that, the damage is done. >I'd be happier if she killed herself It'd definitely help a little. You'd have a whole load of people claiming its proof trans people are ill, because they'd rather say its the person themselves, than society and people like them, that drove someone to suicide. But you'd also have a lot of people feeling bad and being kinder to trans people. It is the only hope we have left at this point
>>5050537 See, that's the thing, it's already happened. We can't go back in time. Jenner has already come out and forced herself into the spotlight and there isn't shit we can do about except pray she never detransitions. Nothing else we can do now,
>>5050561 Cats aren't human. It's too far removed from the human psyche to associate yourself with an animal. Animals also have IQs of usually less than 70, if you are an intelligent human being you cannot logically/mentally be a cat in a human's body. Simple as that.
>>5050588 xDDD good one!!! You got me by making a joke about a political/social movement only perpetuated by 14 year olds on a shitty blogging website with dyed armpit hairs that adults seem to care about for some reason!!! haha stop oppressing me im a fairykin othergendered trigger donkey lol!!!
>>5050599 Yeah, and that's what you call someone who's delusional, not trans. A man with a delusion that makes him think he's a woman would see himself both PHYSICALLY and mentally as a woman, transgender people are aware their bodies are incorrect. There are brain scans out there that show that women's brains and MTFs' brains are more alike each other than a man's brain and an MTF's brain. Do a google search, shit should come straight up.
>>5050657 There are slight areas of variance based on sexual orientation actually in most research on the subject.
I'm sure you thought you were being clever though, sorry about that. I figure it's a follow up to the same questionable study that only checked volume. The fact that it's essentially the same sample (consisting entirely of late onsent trans women) is suspect from the get go.
>>5050580 Are you retarded? I hardly fucking mentioned his shitty views. In fact I wrote a single sentence on them. You just read what you want to read, and ignore literally paragraphs that don't support your narrative, apparently
>>5050675 >I think it's telling You mean the fact that you can cherry pick one study? That's not telling, that's you being unable to do a proper survey of the literature. This is literally the only sample and it's already obviously highly cherry-picked.
>>5050627 >We are using the fact that someone who is attracted to women and calls herself a woman gets incredibly self defensive at the thought of being in any way gay. Is this actually it, or is Jenner just opposed to gay marriage. Someone being gay doesn't exclude that person from being opposed to gays getting married.
>>5053695 >spend 65 years being a conservative straight man >spend two months getting surgery and crossdressing and masturbating to the thought of being a lesbian >omg i totally know what its like to be a gay woman in society!
Honestly, it makes more sense that he's just a straight male crossdresser who dislikes gays because he still views himself as a straight man. This type of Bruce Jenner mindset is extremely common in "lesbian" mtfs, just take a gander at translesgen and you'll see how incredibly homophobic they are, which is kind of odd considering they claim to be gay women..
>>5038052 Caitlyn Jenner's stance on this issue should be startling, considering that she wants to date women and be considered a woman. That would make any of her relationships gay. I think Caitlyn is just Bruce Jenner's fetish personified.
Because no matter how much that thing dresses itself up, it's still a selfish, murdering and utterly abhorrent excuse for a human being. Chop your dick off and make every liberal in Hollywood call you Caitlyn if you want, but you'll still be a piece of shit Jenner.
>>5053728 I agree up until you mentioned transbians being homophobic. Im bi and still think very homophobic thoughts, mostly directed to gay men, but also fat old lesbians. But Ive met plenty of gay men, and been friends with them, I don't actually have a problem once I've met them. My best friend is the same to an extent, she's a cis lesbian but doesn't like flamboyant faggots. And I'm quite racist in my head, but when I meet people of other races I kinda just forget about it.
Personally I think its because of what my dad was like. I don't think it has any link to legitimacy. Especially considering we're on a site renowned for people being edgy or just voicing opinions that they're not allowed to in real life.
In the case of Jenner however, I think the issue is he's still got to control people. I wouldn't vote against gay marriage, or any equal rights things for gays, not just because it might affect me, but because people do they're own thing and that shouldn't be an issue. Jenner of all people should recognise how it feels to want something and for society being against it, and in that sense, its an argument against him
tl;dr its the fact he's against people doing what makes them happy, rather than simply being homophobic, that adds to him not being legit
>>5050606 >>5050631 You can tell she's not really sure about it. Ellen went on Stern and said she got the same vibe.
And she did say that even 15 years ago, around 2000, she wasn't sure about gay marriage. it's just perplexing that someone claims to have known they were a women trapped in mans body for so long but still could hold a view like that.
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