>>5156017 At 14 you're too young and naïve to clearly make such a life altering decision like that. He should be in therapy for a while until it's clear he really is trans. A lot of trans youth stop feeling gender dysphoric in their teens.
their body is still in development since they are still in like mid stage puberty. getting them on estrogen while still in puberty will help them alot in developing a more feminine body type as they finish growing.
if you are not sure for the momnet at least get them on blockers, then go to a gender therapist. if you go through a bit of therapy and talk about it and your brother is sure that he wants to take hormones let him and support him.
>>5156183 >WPATH guidelines Are just guidelines not rules or anything. Also the effects are not fully reversible either. If you take them then after puberty decide you aren't trans and stop you won't be able to fully go through male puberty again which will fuck up your height and body frame. Also just being on T blockers can cause gyno on males which is also not reversible.
>>5156195 Dunno why you said you can't but there's studies with kids saying it's reversible for a few years >height He'd grow taller than average with gnrh blockers if he decided to become a boy later. Growth plates don't seal as quick with them.
It's sorta like how Europeans start puberty later because their low fat diets and end up taller for it.
If he has gender issues, then I don't see how having legolas style looks if he decided to stay a boy would be a bath thing for him.
>>5156195 Not fully reversible, but if someone feels trans strongly enough to come out, and is prescribed blockers by a doctor, the chance that they are indeed trans is high enough that it's worth the minor risk of blockers. It doesn't make sense to let testosterone ruin your body just on the off chance that you're not really trans when it's more likely than not that you are trans. And again, even if you turn out not to be completely trans, wanting to transition probably means you're at least a femboy in which case you're better off without normal male development anyway.
>>5156285 It doesn't make sense to let a child take hormones or even hormones blocers when they aren't capable of making rational decisions at that age and as another anon said most gender dysphoric youth are not trans and end up as gay men and women.
>>5156420 >It doesn't make sense to let a child take hormones or even hormones blocers when they aren't capable of making rational decisions at that age It's no different than any other medical treatment though. After all, it's a doctor evaluating the person and deciding whether to put them on HRT.
>as another anon said most gender dysphoric youth are not trans and end up as gay men and women. No evidence has yet been offered in support of that claim. And there is really no documented case of gender dysphoria just vanishing as one gets older.
>>5156435 Your right, that's why even today most doctors don't put children on hrt at least not without a letter from a therapist who has evaluated them for a long period of time.
>No evidence has yet been offered in support of that claim. And there is really no documented case of gender dysphoria just vanishing as one gets older This is not the one I read but it also shows that most gender dysphoic children are not really trans.
>>5156464 Key fact said in the study: "Nearly all male and female participants in the persistence group reported having a homosexual or bisexual sexual orientation. In the desistance group, all of the girls and half of the boys reported having a heterosexual orientation"
>>5156464 >Your right, that's why even today most doctors don't put children on hrt at least not without a letter from a therapist who has evaluated them for a long period of time. That's exactly what I'm talking about. It's not the child that makes the decision really, and even if they do appear to be clearly trans they only start with blockers anyway.
>This is not the one I read but it also shows that most gender dysphoic children are not really trans. By definition, if we're using terms properly, being gender dysphoric means you're trans. I'm not aware of what definition this study uses, but one of the main studies arguing the same thing used a very broad definition for transgenderism (basically, any sort of gender nonconformity would cause one to be classified as trans in that study) but of course the actual doctors used a narrower definition. So it overinflated the "gender dysphoric" category with people who wouldn't even be classified as such under the normal definitions.
>>5156409 Here, lancet says its no more dangerous than placebo http://www.thelancet.com/journals/laneur/article/PIIS1474-4422%2810%2970182-4/abstract?cc=y=
>No in most cases growth is stunted. And you just proved you don't know what you're talking about. Patients treated with GNRH like Andrej Pejic all ended up taller than their siblings if they didn't get estrogen as well.
GNRH drugs induce something exactly like a mild Kallmann syndrome. The main thing about Kallmann asides from the androgyny is that it's patients are all taller than average because less hormones means slower bone closing. So yeah, he'll likely grow taller than he would have if he elects not to take estrogen.
Many children display cross-gender tendencies between 2 and 4 but after that point, the vast vast majority of children who still display cross-gender tendencies probably aren't gonna just "grow out of it". If anything it's more likely that trans teens just end up repressing their feelings, like I was fantasizing about transition by the time I was 14 but I noped hard when I imagined how my dad would react. Then I came out at 21 after a huge emotional breakdown and when I came out to my dad like half a year later he reacted pretty much exactly how I expected.
>>5156540 There's hardly any difference between boys and girls at ~10 and pink is a gaudy color so I wouldn't have been in a rush to wear that.
I mean sure getting whacked by dad for being effeminate wasn't any fun, and makeup was fun but the only thing you had to do in that age to make everyone think you're a girl is wear plain shorts and a salmon colored shirt.
>>5156017 Puberty blocks as soon as possible. They will grant time for her own self discovery. At the latest, 15 to 16 HRT should start. SRS around a year on HRT, latest early summer before college. That way she'll get all of college to adjust to being female.
>>5156464 That is why they put those under 14 or so on puberty blockers so they can have more time to figure things out. Puberty blockers are reversible. At 15-16 most are sure they are trans, and it never changes after that. So at that point giving HRT and operations is appropriate.
>>5156787 >blockers are reversible Not completely reversible, again this is why most doctor's refuse to treat trans youth this way unless they have a lot of paper work from a therapist proving this is the only course of action.
>at 15-16 Even at that age most teenagers are irresponsible and don't make the best decisions. Usually around 18 is when they start hrt sometimes 17.
>>5157163 The damage from continuing to go through puberty is even more damaging. Having to continue on being a boy can damage or even shatter her mind. Then there are all the physical changes that are irreversible. You can't operate and narrow a chest cavity. It just doesn't work. There are to many vital organs in the way. There is also no way to widen the hips.
Most doctors know nothing about transition and thus don't want to do anything. Then there are the doctors that think it is wrong to transition, which sadly is most.
My GP doc is quite open, and has been learning about trans medical issues, yet I easily know much much more than she does. When I first told her I was transgender, she knew nothing except for the basics. It was barely touched on in med school, then on top of that I'm her first trans patient that has stuck around. There is a trans aware GP doc in a neighboring city a half hour away. He takes care of 70+% of the central Iowa trans I know, and I know people who travel two hours to go to him.
>>5159569 >Most doctors know nothing about transition and thus don't want to do anything Well yes, just like how most doctors don't know anything about open heart surgery. It's not their field of study.
>Then there are the doctors that think it is wrong to transition, which sadly is most. Unless you live in a country full of quack doctors, no.
>>5156017 Should see a professional before doing anything irreversible while staying aware that the human brain doesn't stop developing until people are ~21. If the professional opinion is that she should go for 'mones that she should be on them. If not and they think she should mature a bit more to see how she feels then keep an eye on her just in case she does have dysphoria and it gets too much for her. Whether she turns out to be your sister or is just your brother going through a phase you should support her.
>>5159638 I would yes because he has anxiety about gender now, along with psychological help. you and your parents will have help him figure this out and decease his dyshoria. In the meanwhile he has focus on his priorities like school becoming an adult.
>>5159823 Once feminine features show up and if she is presenting feminine the teasing will drop. No boy that age wants to be seen teasing girls. unless she is an obvious pre bombshell, she won't be a threat to the other girls so she likely will be accepted by them.
>>5160013 If I'm a doctor then can I have sex with a 14 year old?
I don't think the "recognized medical procedure" part is relevant. It was only until very recently that such a thing WAS recognized as legitimate. You wouldn't argue that people transitioning is wrong or right purely based on the laws of the country they reside in would you?
>>5159999 >Because it's really whoever prescribes hormones that's making the decision In the end it's the person taking them who makes the decision, if he or she says to the doctor "I'm really a boy or girl and want hormones" then that is giving their consent to take them. It should be the parents who decide not them.
>>5160052 Cool, so if the parents are ok with it people can have sex with the child? Just curious, what happens if the parents want a sex change for their child but the child doesn't?
>>5160054 Why does it have to be for medical reasons? You can go on birth control for non-medical reasons, you can get an abortion for non-medical reasons. You can even become trans, for non-medical reasons.
I'm not arguing for or against putting children under HRT, but the "Naturalism" argument is beyond stupid. Nature didn't enslave our ancestors by forcing them to hunt for food or starve.
>>5160102 You could make that argument about ANY medical treatment. But doctors don't just automatically prescribe medicine to anyone who asks, they have to believe it's appropriate given whatever condition they have. Otherwise there would be no need to have doctors in the first place. Really all the person taking them is doing is reporting their symptoms.
>It should be the parents who decide not them. I think it would be preferable for the person with the relevant medical knowledge who makes that sort of decision. Otherwise transphobic parents could hurt transgender kids by not letting them transition because they think it's a liberal conspiracy to emasculate our youth or whatever.
>>5160102 >It should be the parents who decide not them. Unfortunately a parental negative on transition can totally fuck the person's life up. All because the mom and dad were against transition or didn't want the shame on the family.
>>5160114 >so if the parents are ok with it people can have sex with the child? you better read the laws first. They even took the right to OK nude photos away. Stuff that my parent's OKed when I was young would get them thrown in jail now.
>what happens if the parents want a sex change for their child but the child doesn't? Hopefully all doctors refuse.
>>5160114 >I'm not arguing for or against putting children under HRT,... but you are making stupid arguments.
>>5160114 >I'm not arguing for or against putting children under HRT, but the "Naturalism" argument is beyond stupid. Nature didn't enslave our ancestors by forcing them to hunt for food or starve. Whether you go on HRT or not, hormones are going to drastically alter your body. Why should underage mtfs be allowed to have testosterone alter their body, but not estrogen? That's like saying you need to consent to have sex with men, but not with women.
>>5160114 >>5160158 >Just curious, what happens if the parents want a sex change for their child but the child doesn't? That's a gray area, and that's why it should really be up to the doctor. It really doesn't matter what the parents or children want, all that matters is if they have genital dysphoria and the doctor considers a sex change the appropriate treatment. It's really irrelevant though since sex changes are virtually ever performed before adulthood.
>>5160207 Honestly though children taking sex hormones and getting gender reassignment surgery at such a young age is never going to be a common thing. I know some trans people think it's gonna be common practice some day but letting children who can't make competent decisions change their sex is not ethical and most doctors will not do. According to studies most gender dysphoric children end up gay or bisexual after puberty anyway and stop feeling gender dysphoric.
>>5160233 That's not even remotely the same thing though....obviously if someone is bleeding out in front of them they are gonna save them but not step in and say "hey this child who can't make competent says they wanna be a girl so I'm over ruling your authority on your child to pump them full of hormones to save their life"
>>5159865 >No boy that age wants to be seen teasing girls
Unless he was born female. Either way self defense classes and exercise will do him good.
>The kids in his highschool are pretty LGBT friendly, actually. At least that was when I went there.
That's on the surface, you can never be too careful especially with highschool students. This is why he should make the decision when he is older and continue going as boy but is allowed to take blockers if needed.
>>5160185 If you want to argue from an ethical perspective, I was ready at 15 to transition, and even went to docs to try to get it started. I was supporting myself trading stocks for family and relatives, living on my own, continuing my education in photography and art, and even saving up money. I knew I needed to transition, and recent events in my life told me unequivocally it as the right choice. Still I couldn't get any docs to provide me with hormones. They all said wait to 18. It was very frustrating.
>>5160230 At the end of HS I started RLE. I was finally prescribed estrogen a few months before I turned 20. Soon after I was bashed. After my wife died from her injuries, the doc at the hospital had me committed, and put into conversion therapy. The ECT they did fucked up my brain and caused major amounts of skill and memory loss. Lots has come back, but it's now three decades later, and there are still many holes in what I remember.
>>5160273 I expect the average age of transition will drop a lot as it becomes more and more well known the effects of transitioning young versus waiting, and diagnostic means improve. Every kid who transitioned early is having a nearly normal life now.
>>5158501 Go and be gender-kin on tumblr or something. Everyone knows what gender they are, jesus christ, stop trying to make it seem you lie need to reach "enlightenment" before you know you're trans or not.
>>5160273 The reason most doctors will not do so is because it's not their specialty. That doesn't mean they will advise patients against it, if they do their jobs properly they'll just explain that it's not their specialty and refer you to someone who handles gender issues. Also, I'm pretty sure that study uses a very low threshold for "gender variance", far broader than is generally used to diagnose gender dysphoria.
>>5160294 People are not given HRT just because they say they want to be a girl, they're given HRT because they are diagnosed with gender dysphoria, and wanting to be a girl is just one of the symptoms of that. Just saying you want to be a girl is not the same as having gender dysphoria.
>>5160335 >put me into conversion therapy Lmao yeah sure thing.
>my wife >transbians Oh I understand now, you lived most of your life a male like bruce jenner and don't really have gender dysphoria but like to make up excuses to why you didn't transition like bruce.
>>5160340 >People are not given HRT just because they say they want to be a girl, they're given HRT because they are diagnosed with gender dysphoria That's still not the same thing as anon example. No doctor has the right to put some parents child on hormones without their consent.
>>5160388 >end up gay or bisexual after puberty anyway and stop feeling gender dysphoric. That's not at all what it says, though. It says most of the children in the persistence group had GID, not that they weren't dysphoric anymore.
>>5160368 >That's still not the same thing as anon example. No doctor has the right to put some parents child on hormones without their consent. No, but I'm saying they should have that right. If a child has asthma, or migraine headaches, should their parents be allowed to prevent them from getting the appropriate medical treatment? At the very least, the children of such parents should have a way of reporting their parents for child abuse. I don't know what else you'd call preventing children from receiving medical treatment
>>5160338 >Go and be gender-kin on tumblr or something.
XDD Nice meme.
>Everyone knows what gender they are, jesus christ, stop trying to make it seem you lie need to reach "enlightenment" before you know you're trans or not.
Not everyone knows, some are unsure for life. Most children grow out of their dysphoria, leaving the minority who partially or fully transition. Let's not forget this is a mental condition where people don't feel right in their own gender. The goal here is make the person feel comfortable in their gender and themselves. Right now OP's brother is 14, 14-18+ years old are on facebook, tumblr, trying to find out their identities he's in highschool meaning if he suddenly comes out as a girl he's going to get lots of attention, that is the last thing he needs right now on top the dysphoria and the schoolwork.
This is why Im scared of having children, what if after all the health check ups I think hes fine but then he turns out to be mentally illed? Could I leave him to another family for adoption and try again?
>>5156133 >At 14 you're too young and naïve to clearly make such a life altering decision like that thank god i waited until i was mature and responsible enough to tell people what i REALLY wanted, instead of trying to communicate such a complicated and mature decision as "i want to be a girl" as a two year old man that really would have messed my life up
>>5156409 Gyno is extremely reversible with surgery. In teens, it normally goes away on its own after a couple years as hormones shift and the chest expands. You have no earthly clue what you're talking about, which is par for the course for 4chan, but you're being an ignorant shitcunt about medical treatments which has pretty obvious problems.
>>5161731 A 14 can't receive comfort surgical procedures. Their life isn't threaten by dysphoria and you could argue the need of surgery in this case. The whole thing revolves around the 14's actual desire to change sex and as I said, it's really, really weird it bothers nobody his consent is enough to do so. Even with a psychological aid, one couldn't adopt a child or marry. I can't figure out why it's sufficient here—and let's be honest, doctors really don't ask much.
>>5161833 It's not a "comfort" surgical procedure - and as mentioned before, SRS is rarely given to underage people anyway. So that's not what I'm talking about here. I'm talking about HRT, which is really in the same category of other medications, like prescribing a drug to prevent migraine headaches. I was prescribed such a drug when I was like seven years old, and no one's saying there's any consent issues with that.
>>5161849 This is called a comfort surgical procedure, just like abortion, it isn't medically required. Regarding HRT, it wasn't chiefly used in transition but in “real” hormonal dysfunction pathologies. The people who got them couldn't or had trouble to grow and develop secondary sexual characters. Its use in gender dysphoria is pretty recent and should clearly be discussed concerning the teenager's wish legitimacy.
>>5161902 Again, doctors don't give someone HRT because they come in and say they want to be a girl. They have to be diagnosed with gender dysphoria, which is a real and legitimate condition, and one of the main treatments for it is HRT.
>>5161722 A 14yo who is an emancipated minor can buy a house. Like anybody else the 14yo would have to convince the lender of its ability to repay the loan. Know your laws. I know this because I became an emancipated minor just before my 15th b-day. It gave me full rights to do any financial transaction. My signature was now legal for most legal documents like financial instruments, contracts, loans, rental agreements, court documents, etc.. Sadly, it didn't get me the right to buy booze. :( I needed the emancipated minor status, and was granted it, for the stock trading I did for my relatives.
>>5161941 Even if they are diagnosed most doctors even today in 2015 won't prescribe cross sex hormones and blockers to children. That's why it's so hard for trans youth to transition because most doctors just don't feel comfortable doing that.
>>5160486 >Most children grow out of their dysphoria, leaving the minority who partially or fully transition. >Let's not forget this is a mental condition where people don't feel right in their own gender.  Majority of those who have gender nonconforming behavior or thoughts grow out of it, by the age of 12. This kid is 14, and at that age there are only a tiny tiny number of people who would still grow out of it.
>Not everyone knows, some are unsure for life. That's called aspergers or BPD, and pretty easy to detect.
>>5163347 >That's called aspergers or BPD, and pretty easy to detect. What do you mean by that? Autism or some personality disorders would probably make it more difficult to identify one's own gender, but they certainly aren't the only reasons that would happen, nor would they necessarily cause that difficultly at all.
I'll just leave this right here... http://www.transadvocate.com/fact-check-study-shows-transition-makes-trans-people-suicidal_n_15483.htm
Someone interviewing the head honcho on the Swedish study idiots have been misrepresenting forever. I'm pretty sure the part about children "growing out of" gender dysphoria is in there. If not, it's still pretty relevant.
Hormone blockers. Would not recommend actually hormones at 13. There is still a chance they could grow out of it and be a fag. Also, pic related. This is fucking 4chan. It's not a place to take life advice from.
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