Itt: we rationalize, theorize, and discuss why being gay wouldn't land one in hell. Any religion, creed, and denomination is welcome and open for discussion. Atheists and agnostics are more than welcome too, my only request is that we all be respectful to each other.
If God is real he didn't create me and make me the way I am just to punish me. What logic would that hold? I don't care about what someone wrote on how to treat homosexuality. I care about upholding the human values set forth by Christ and I believe that it is my good actions that will bring me salvation.
The Abrahamic religions are pretty clear about going to hell for being gay. Then again religions are pretty great at being vague enough to let you think what ever you want about it.
Ok, I'll start. I'm a Catholic, but a Catholic who worships God instead of the pope or the Vatican.
I think it's pretty illogical for religious zealots to condemn being gay as an automatic one way ticket to hell. First of all, that one line in Leviticus that states you shall not lie with a man the same way you lie with a woman is the subject of a lot of controversy due to an alleged mistranslation. Apparently, the original line in the Hebrew language went more along the lines of you shall not lie with a man in the same bed that you lie with a woman.
That being said, let's run through the scenario of gays going to hell for being gay. Hell is a special place reserved for people who committed atrocities, and who never repented for their sins and made no effort to redeem themselves. These people are humans who turned into beasts, such as Hitler. If being gay equates to committing mass genocide in the way that a gay guy and Hitler end up in the same place of eternal damnation, then what motivation would mankind have to not be like Hitler and to not give in to our death instincts. None, and if being gay lands you in hell, so does committing adultery and other relatively trivial sins. If this were the case, we would might as well all be horrible human beings and frequently engage in murder, theft, rape, etc, because if we're already going to hell for being gay, we might as well give up the burden of abiding by morality as a whole since we'll be going to hell anyways. We would have no motivation to be good people and to abide by our faith in God, and that would be pretty illogical on God's part since he wants the opposite from us; he wants us to have a reason to strive towards becoming higher beings, not the opposite.
I don't know who you are, but I want to thank you and to let you know that you just gave me newfound hope and purpose in terms of my spirituality. I have never had anyone explain this the way you have, but all I can say is that this can only come from somebody who believes in a true all-loving, merciful God.
Because everyone is a heathen, and has committed sin. It is more about trying to be a good person and having repentance for your sins, more than trying to follow all rules of the Bible or most holy texts.
Dude, let me start by saying that I'm an atheist. That being said, this has got to be one of the most beautiful things I've ever read regarding God and religion. If actual priests had this same philosophy, I'd actually consider converting.
Also, does the original Hebrew translation then require us to have a separate bed/couch for bros and hoes?
Now for like 1900 years the word of god has been studied and through all these years it was believed that being gay was a one way ticket to hell.
Why would that suddenly change overnight?
because social/cultural situation has changed and people always "study" world of God in such a way that is convenient to them
look up christian icon worship
look up sunnah
the entire trinity thing has been invented just because jesus cult was too popular to deny
>the sin of sodomy, whether it be a man or a woman, or even if it's just oral sex. It's no worse than premarital sex
And that got you killed throughout the ages.
In places it still does.
the only question is whether you realize you sin, and sin consciously, or whether you rationalize your adats
if you accept your sins and label yourself as unfaithful sinner, you are not a hypocrite
if you do otherwise, you are a hypocrite
all holy scriptures agree-whether they be bible, Torah or Quran- that hypocrites go to the lowest, deepest pits of hell
hypocrite is defined as "someone who claims to follow world of God only when it is convenient to him". God hate those who take his name and twist his words into what they are not.
If you replace "atheists" with "gays" in this picture, this statement continues to hold the same powerful truth. Contrary to what literally anyone in /pol/ says, God has made it very clear that our role as imperfect human beings is to be loving rather than hateful and condemning of others; it is not our role to judge others because 1) we cannot judge others for being imperfect when we ourselves are imperfect, and 2) because that is solely the role of God Himself, since he is the one and only perfect, omnipotent higher being in existence.
>It's not an explicitly religious notion to hate homosexuals and kill them.
It is to kill them.
It's literally written there.
>I'm just trying to advocate hating the sin, not the sinner
Which will (unfortunately) forever be used as an excuse. "I'm not hating on you. I'm just hating on the sin, by hating on you."
I don't expect gay people to go to heaven, and I won't go to heaven either;
such is my choice.
and you have simple understanding of history, religious studies and psychology.
no one likes to choose between their worldview and world of God. It's much easier, much more convenient to marry these two and pretend that everything is alright;
people love projecting, taking the name of God and using it to justify their worldly interests
take for example, those who fight for their nation and yet claim that "god is on their side". Yet, bible and torah and quran clearly say, that "you will not have other gods before me". Nothing-no nation, no family, no earthly values-matter in the face of God. First jewish priests were supposed to kill their friends, family and neighbors...that was their ritual of initiation. Even Catechism of Catholic Church, as polytheistic as catholics are, condemns "patriotism" as sinful. And yet, first thing the so called "conservatists" and "patriots" call for when defending their "nation and family values" is the very word of God who condemned it.
Most of them never read the Bible, instead choosing a convenient interpretation given to them by priests...
bible can be separated into two "parts", intermixed with each other
the myths(which shouldn't be taken literally) and the laws(which probably should)
so when Genesis says "Elohim separated water from water with invisible barrier" it's probably not literal water it speaks about
but when later parts of Bible say, over and over again "slay the gay away", it is literal commandment
too many people treat "don't take Bible literally" as a convenient excuse to ignore everything that isn't convenient to them
>implying that the law is and should be synonymous with any religion
The bible is written with metaphors, or else we'd all be going to hell for not killing our neighbor for working on Sunday. The law, however, is literal in every way.
Also, there's a reason why the laws and government in civilized first world countries are kept secular.
>or else we'd all be going to hell for not killing our neighbor for working on Sunday.
how do you know we aren't?
for a sinner, a path leading to heaven is as narrow as the edge of the blade....impossible to stay on, sure to fall down...
That's cozy, anon. :3
I love seeing fellow Christians on this board.
>The bible is written with metaphors
Not the entire book is metaphors.
Or is "thou shalt not worship other gods beside me" or "thou shalt not murder" a metaphor too?
I don't think so.
A commandment is not written in metaphor because any idiot must be able to discern the true meaning.
Man, it must suck to be you then. If you've actually killed your neighbor for working on Sunday already, enjoy your life-long stay in prison. If not, enjoy your eternal stay in hell. And when it turns out you can't enter heaven because you murdered somebody as a result of erroneously having taken the bible literally, enjoy your long stay in purgatory.
Seriously, by your logic, gay or not, we're ALL doomed for the worst no matter what we do.
>enjoy your life-long stay in prison.
It's only a crime if you get caught.
>you murdered somebody as a result of erroneously having taken the bible literally
Can't you just blame that on a "civil misunderstanding"?
have you ever read the so called old testament?
also, homosexual acts, not homosexuality itself are sins
homosexuality as identity is a modern construct
in the past, in medieval and before, only acts, not feelings or identity, were punished
I'm glad this is not /b/, because then the possibility of you being dead serious and then proceeding to give instructions on where to find the body would have actually been something to worry about.
Seriously, fuck that place. It's filled with degenerate furry porn.
And then when you least expect it, an actual deranged psychopath starts posting about his most recent victims.
And have you ever read the New Testament? Y'know the one that actually pertains to Christianity in any sense beyond a Jewish background? The only impact the Old Testament has on the New is to serve as prophecies to be fulfilled by Christ's coming and as material to be questioned by Christ. Jesus says, in not so many words, that he's here to overturn the old covenant and create a new one. And you know the 2 commandments in this new one? Love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your mind, and with all your soul. LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.
Secondly, unless you are a highly qualified historian, and even then I'd doubt you, you have absolutely no basis for judging whether or not homosexuality as an identity is a new concept.
I guess you don't know about that one time when this sick fuck told people on /b/ to go to a specified location and dig in order to find something he buried there. Someone did, and it was an actual motherfucking human head. Then the son of a bitch asked if they wanted to know where the rest of the body was.
My AP Biology teacher told me that she doesn't believe that God created gay and straight. He created man and woman. Men and women's bodies conform to each other and have the capability to reproduce. She told me that I have a mental illness because "If you can take that much pain and get stretched to the point of bleeding, there's something mentally wrong if you think they love you" and "look at all the diseases you can catch from that – you realize that homosexuality is the number one cause of AIDS in the United States right?" She told me I needed to ask God to deliver me from homosexuality because its a demonic thing inside of me that's making me like men, but the thing is, I'm not sexually attracted to women. I've never been sexually attracted to women, and I've only occasionally liked them from a romantic perspective.
In high school my AP American History teacher was a staunch conservative but he still tried his hardest to be apolitical in his lectures. You ought to complain to the school or something
That's some sick shit man. The only times I ever lost my shit to something from /b/ is when they spammed a company's hashtag by using it to to tag the most offensive shit when the company was in the middle of a world conference and all the tags were being projected in this huge screen for everyone to see. Also, that one time when OP managed to take over a high school's intercom system and played porn audio and a very racist, corrupted version of the Duck Tales theme song over and over again at full volume.
There's a difference between the "lol oops she's dead" posters which are like once in a blue moon, and the "yeah I totally killed like 10 people no I don't have pics I'm so hardcore" posters you find every day on /b/.