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Archived threads in /lit/ - Literature - 314. page
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To those of you who can read in more than one language: how long did it take before you were able to do so confidently and without a dictionary? I have been trying to learn a second language for over a year now, and have read several books (mostly easier ones I had already read in English), but still find myself looking up 2-3 words that I can't figure out with context clues per page. Especially when I begin a new book, getting used to the author's style and vocabulary is frustrating.

Compared to English, where I can read a whole book without consulting a dictionary,...
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It really takes a long time. All I can say is stick with it. Spanish and other romance languages are fun because of the roots though - maybe make a game with new words where you try to guess the origin and/or related English words?

You can also buy parallel translations and just look at the other page when you get stuck (though for me it's tempting to read the English even when I'm not stuck, so I have to cover it with a large bookmark). It's faster than using a dictionary, and some even come with translators' notes.

You can get intermediate/advanced...
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I've used English daily through the Internet for ~10 years but I wouldn't say I grasped it enough for serious reading until maybe 4-5 years ago. It's a huge amount of work and I don't recommend it unless you're learning a really common, everyday easy language like English is. Even when you grasp the contemporary usage of a language, reading something pre-20th century can totally throw you off and make you feel clueless.
>>
>Been learning russian for 5 months
>can browse and post on the Russian 4chan (дчa.ч) without much difficulty
>take a look ay the first page of war and peace with a bilingual reader
>understand maybe a quarter of the Russian at best

After hitting it with a dictionary for like half an hour I had the first coupl paragraphs down. Translations change it a lot. Tolstoy isn't done justice by English translations. He writes beautifully....
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Thoughts you hate the most.

>There is no objective reality.
Yes, there is.
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>There is no objective morality
Yes, there is.
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>>8471656
Prove it
>>
>If X doesn't exist I'll feel bad, therefore X exists
Seems to be the only argument for objective morality if you get to the base of it.

What makes a good character?
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>>8471484
They effectively facilitate the development of the story. It's vague, but beyond that it's personal preference by a reader.
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>>8471484
If I can place said character in a hypothetical situation and have a reasonable idea of how they'd react.
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>>8471521
THIS

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Let's get a Western recommendation thread going. I'm sure there are more than me who enjoy reading them.

I'll get us started with some of my favourites:
Blood Meridian - Cormac McCarthy
True Grit - Charles Portis
Warlock - Oakley Hall (one of Pynchon's favourite novels)
The Drop Edge of Yonder - Rudolph Wurlitzer (loosely the origins of Jarmusch's film Dead Man)
Gunslinger - Ed Dorn (this long experimental prose poem is as close to a Joycean Western I've come across)

I'm debating starting Lonesome Dove by Larry...
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>>8471415
butcher's crossing
>>
stephany king - the gunsling
>>
Thanks for recs.

Another couple I forgot to include in the OP:
The Sisters Brothers - Patrick DeWitt (worth an afternoon of your time, fun and well-written but nothing special)
A Moment in the Sun - John Sayles (scope is quite expansive with a lot of Western elements. It's a big fat doorstopper so probably not for those who have to budget their reading time)

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Hi, I've read some meme novels, and now I feel like tackling ol' Willy. Problem is, he's difficult to read and I don't know where to start. What do?
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Get an annotated edition - if you like reading on your PC, nfs.sparknotes.com is nice

For ebooks/paperbooks I love the Royal Shakespeare Company editions, they're heavily annotated
>>
Just start with the more well known plays. I mean I read Romeo and Juliet, Hamlet, MacBeth and Julius Caesar in high school and I got the gist of it. They're not THAT hard if you're patient and careful in your reading.

I liked Hamlet best.
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>>8471394
My high school english teacher always said Shakespeare was meant to be heard, not to be read. Get some audiobooks or see if you can find a theatre adaption on youtube. Actually hearing/seeing the play can make things a lot easier.

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> be Lü Bu
> kill adoptive father over a fucking pussy

really makes you think
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>>8471346
Lü Bu and his wife are the dumbest parts of the recent TV show. Thank God for Cao Cao.
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>>8471351
There's a TV show? I am in the wrong country. I did not know this.

Also, how's Liu Bei in the show? He was always my favourite.
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>>8471378
He's annoying perfect. Well, except for the occasional incident.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rhdqnsiDSa8

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Going to start this today. Has anyone actually read it? Did I fall for memes?
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full sincere it's a great book
>>
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LIFE! you poor bastard!
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>>8471430
That entire monologue is satirical but so many people miss out on that

>>8471329
Nah it's legit great
Prepare for the best first 100ish pages ever

>ctrl-f
>etc

pretty disappointed in /lit/ tbqtpih
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I want to read Women and Men but I'm reading Blood Meridian. What to do?
>>
void
>>
>>8471315
finish blood meridian and read the other one next

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>I'm a philosopher
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Are you, pepe?
>>
Do you contribute anything to life or are you always this useless?
>>
>>8471293
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pDK9rhWBUlg

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Will literature and meditation save me or should I chase money?

Seriously
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>>8471268
the former
>>
>>8471268
Yes.
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>>8471268
>save me
Neither. Pursue truths and stop being lard.

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This was such a great read. The thing is, angry left wingers reading it will deep down know everything Murray says here is true.

So my question is: why do leftists continue to deny the reality of race and peddle this egalitarian psuedo-science, /lit/?
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Ispak soþlik as an þe ne haþ þee bok iræd.
>>
based milo trump cuck redpill nu male


MAGA anime degenerate
>>
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>>8471256

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is he celibate
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>>8471224
>perfect eyes and eyebrows
>6'2"
>9x7 inch dong
>fucked his friend's wife who then wrote a playboy article bragging about how Pynchon fucked his wife

You tell me if he's celibate
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>>8471230
He also stole a few of his college roommates' girlfriends.
>>
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Maybe, maybe not.

He does happen to have a grandchild (or child?) however.

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What books has /lit/ bought lately? Everything here was bought in the last few weeks except for Dune, both copies of The Hobbit and that Biology textbook. How'd I do? And is Spring Snow a good place to start with Mishima?
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>>8471192
DUDE
>>
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A greek drama collection
Oedipus
5 dramas from Shakespeare(fucking ugly cover,no other edition was avalible)
Confucianist tales
>>
Purchases from the last four weeks

Star Wars - Tales Of The Bounty Hunters
The Naked Sun by Isaac Asimov
The Kon-Tiki Expedition by Thor Heyerdahl
The Silent World by Jacques-Yves Cousteau
Words by Jean-Paul Sartre
Stranger In A Strange Land - Robert Heinlein
Virtual Light by William Gibson
Infidel by Ayaan Hirsi Ali
The Fountains Of Paradise by Arthur C. Clarke
Bicycle Diaries by David Byrne

It's my 19th birthday today my dad handed me a wrapped book and when I opened it he said "you still read harry potter right?"
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Hey, at least he's partially interested in what your hobbies are, and he's also interested enough to give you a present!
Think of it as your personal 'Lee Carvallo's Putting Challenge'.
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>>8471142
damn did you tell him harry potters for girls and your not a faggot who reads books about a male witch lmao
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>>8471148
Yeah that's it he cares enough to get me a gift I had a small chuckle to myself when I opened it.

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I've read about 80 books, some of which are The Illiad, Bely's Petersburg, Dostoyevsky's Demons, Hesse's The Glass Bead Game.

Do I have any valid predispositions to understand/enjoy the whole Pynchon/Joyce/DFW/Gaddis/any-tough-postmodern-writer basket?
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>>8471140
You're never ready, that's why it's so fulfilling.
>>
>>8471140
if you have to ask you're not ready
>>
>>8471154
>>8471154

This is true.

There's no way anybody reads and retains all the literature you'd need to understand Ulysses/G.R. in full. Part of the fun is being able to have these abstract concepts subtly connected by the book you're reading.

Infinite Jest you don't really need a ton of reading behind you, but G.R. and Ulysses are intentionally jam-packed with super specific references to real-history, mythology, the occult, esoterica...
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So I know this isn't the "end-all" Western Canon list, and that Bloom himself would later go on to disavow it, but how does the list stand for you personally? What books/authors do you feel are really missing? Ones you feel just don't belong there?

the complete list:
http://www.interleaves.org/~rteeter/grtbloom.html
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>>8471100

No.
>>
He never disavowed it: what are you talking about?
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>>8471100
>only three works in Sanskrit
>Egyptian book of the dead

Something is wrong with that nigger

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>book has sex scene
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>character is the world's biggest loser
>has a gf
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>>8471102
Thing is, I started reading this book ages ago, - I forget the title, about a man who got reincarnated deformed for being a dick in a previous life, and he gets sexually molested as a kid and beaten savagely as an adult man by teenage girl gangs, and works a shitty private eye job.

And I never got to the end because it just wasn't interesting to read.
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>>8471411
Ah, I think it was a James Herbert book now I google for it.

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continental philosophy, however is much more beautiful and poetic with its use of language...

but then when you come to look at it, you realize its pretty much MUH FEELS...and then you go look at analytical philosophy and say, well this shit seems robotic

this shit seems like for pseudo wannabe mathematics that couldn't make it in that field...but then you start to realize..this shit, makes more sense.... and then you start to realize..fuck it, it makes a shit ton more sense

then you start to realize how shit continental philosophy is, and then all...
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>>8471081
Most analytic philosophers were and are logicians and mathematicians as well, so the popular conception that it's "just for wannabes who couldn't do math" is patently false. More of a projection from people who are actually bad at math and can't handle reading something with logical notation in it. Most people take an interest in philosophy because they hear about Nietzsche and nihilism and all that and believe philosophy is just about "how to live your life". There's also the...
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>>8471275
Lacan applies knot theory to his work.
Badoui or whoever applies set theory
>>
>>8471081
Language and philosophy are self refuting anyway.
They can't give you any definite answers.

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Has anyone read this?

What translation do I pick?
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Why?

Unless you are doing religious studies or something, I will not recommend this. There is so much context you wil need to take into account, and you would need an unbiased Imam to help you understand.

Rather read a good quran commentary if you have to.

Pic is my Afrikaans translation.
>>
the meaning of the glorious koran: marmaduke pickthall
>>
>>8471461
Reading Afrikaans as a Dutch man cracks me up every time.

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I have way too many stacks now but here's my latest one
>>
Anyone have the Bible published by Oxford World's Classics? I'd like to see how the dimensions look compared to other books.
>>
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>>8471024
Most of these are new, but here's the stack beside my couch.

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Where is the essential chart on books that teach you how to read books?
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>>8470794
he did a few of these books, right?
are they helpful at all?
>>
what could i possibly learn from this
>>
>>8470963
How to read and why. Obviously, you need it.

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I have some basic critiques of Marx and Nietzsche. I'm saying either of these thinkers belongs in the dumpsters, but are some glaring issues.

First, with Marx. His underlying assumption is that history has patterns--okay, that's a reasonable assumption. However the problem is this leads him to an assumption of historical determinism. If there is one incontrovertible axiom, one inevitability, it's randomness. History is, in many ways, a series of unpredicted events. Marx sees the past and assumes it was always inevitable, but that's not the case. A leads to B is only how things appear to function. It might work with smaller things, but the broader you apply, the more probability is skewed: A leads to B becomes A could lead to B, C, D, E, F and so on, the problem is, the less controls on the environment, the less we can have access to the probability. A casino is an extremely controlled environment, so they can shift out, for instance, dice on a particular cycle, to restore the shape for in order to keep maximum knowledge of the probability. Dealing with culture and society is much, much harder, you can barely even grasp probability, let alone setting it down as definite, let alone pinning down a sure outcome. To me, this is Marx's greatest flaw, his dialectical train of thought presumes you can just predict the future with surety based on the past.

Now, addressing Nietzsche: Nietzsche does not actually make an argument through either inductive or deductive reasoning, or even "dialectic", he just uses rhetoric. Some will mentions he was a competent philologist, but Nietzsche, at least in his philosophical writings, does not employ any rigorous philological method. This is not innately bad, since Nietzsche's intent was to write a philosophical work of music, so to speak, as opposed to an argument. His work is intended purely as an artistic exercise. But it becomes a problem when his readers use him as an authority for anything, when he is cited as an authority for how society,religion, morality, culture, psychology, or history works, then it is a problem. Because Nietzsche's work does not offer anything in the way of an academic understanding of this. It's like citing Shakespeare's historical plays in discussions about Caesar or Henry V.

Anyway, that's all.
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If you believe historical materialism is deterministic and "presumes to predict the future" you haven't understood it.
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>>8470793
That's what I gathered from The German Ideology. He's purely descriptive of the communist future, and places it matter-of-factually alongside the other stages.
>>
>>8470777
>It's like citing Shakespeare's historical plays in discussions about Caesar or Henry V

I could see one getting away with this, as long as they don't use his historical plays as evidence, moreso to compare reality with fiction.

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I don't know too much of writing, but I lurk here from time to time.
http://pastebin.com/piSZ8WiJ
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>>8470772
I'll critique it in a bit. I'm busy right now.
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>>8470790
Thank you.
>>
>>8470790
>>8470822
I'm not going to lie anon, it's pretty bad. It reads like something i'd find on /r/writingprompts.

Everything else aside, the punctuation is pretty juvenile.

> She’s not coming. None of my purple passages or words could possibly woo her. My email is a barren wasteland (Maybe she forgot to send it? Or could it be Him already?

She's not coming: none of my purple passages or words could...
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seems like he is the only one in the lit world right now trying something new
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>>8470769
what is an example of his innovation, and who is he?
>>
>>8470769
Who?
>>
>>8470787
MZD

Mark Z Danielewski

What is /lit/ reading and drinking on this fine summer night?

I just finished Simon Blackburn's Think, and my fifth gin and tonic.
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>>8470762
At Swim Two Birds and mezcal
>>
jesus christ the fuck up no one thinks youre smart you goddamn pseudo intellectual 20 somethiing WHO DOESNT EVN READ BLOOKS and just reads to look smart and cultured JESUS CHRIST i bet youre the type to bitch on this fuCKOING WEIBSTIE ABOUT PEOPLE READING TRANSLATION like jsues SHUT UP NO ONE CARES
>>
>>8470774
why you so mad dude? here's a picture of a puppy to make you happier

What are good books on the aftermath of WWII?
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gravitys rainbow
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>>8470745
slaughter house five :^3
>>
Der Alpdruck, by Hans Fallada.

It's great.

I don't know the English title.

I think I have a problem writing dialogue. Critique this.
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>>8470528
I am sorry. These people, I read in your story, these people talk like my son. Very angry. Always shouting. I think bad diet, not enough sleep. Always very upset because he need more rest.

Very simple , I say you need take these people in your story, make them go to sleep
>>
What the hell is this some kind of written anime American parody ???
>>
Read something that isn't garbage and copy it. Stop reading schlock.

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this fucking guy or cliff? who's the better booktuber?
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>>8470526
That isnt bookchemist?!??
>>
burn all booktubers
give them AIDS
>>
>>8470526
Who's this pinhead?

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Ask a guy who works at Barnes and Noble anything
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>>8470428
Have you got any pets??
>>
>>8470437
Had a cat named Bobo, don't have her anymore
>>
>>8470428
What books have you noticed being sold the most, recently?

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Sky

I'm looking for a place in Berkeley where I can stare out at a surrealist sky, arms wrapped tightly around a girl, thoughts engulfed within the total sublimity of the human condition.

I want to feel how Galois felt, the night before his duel, furiously scribbling his life's work, his legacy and final gift to humanity.

I want to feel how Kant felt, when he first posited the existence of synthetic a priori truths. Rescuing our rationality. Delving deep into abstraction, deducing the very ontology of our universe.

I want to feel how Alberti...
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The World Artist at her easel. One stroke, Tlon. Two strokes, Rome. Three strokes, Lyon. Four strokes, Chrome.

I have forgotten my mortality, my whited sepulchre. Unaware of my arrogance, the sea still rages, rages. Invisible to us, a falcon's cry punctures the heavy atmosphere. Reverberating against the perfect and impenetrable walls of our minds, the call reminds us that we are deprived of our shadows. The horrors of naturalism surface with torrential vigor, yet appear immaterial to our mechanical thoughts. We can read but not write. Forever finite.

Shaking,...
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no comments/criticism? /sci/friend here :)
>>
Word of advice: just because something is meaningful to you doesn't mean it's meaningful to others. I don't know you, and even if I did, I wouldn't give a flying fuck about your emotions. Shut. The. Fuck. Up. Your personal expression is dogshit; you 'feeling things' is not interesting to anybody but you and maybe (MAYBE) those you have a close relationship with, but even that's iffy. Write something compelling next time, and keep an audience in mind other than yourself. You did write for an audience, right? You're not that self-absorbed, right?


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