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Archived threads in /lit/ - Literature - 586. page
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What do you do before deciding a new book to read? What considerations do you make with regard to notoriety, author, setting etc?

I'm pretty open-minded, I'll read anything as long as it's written by a white man and isn't genre fiction
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i just go through various /lit/ charts i have saved lmao
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>>8229124

Usually get it into my head that "I am going to read this book because of...". Also helps with not quitting for another book.
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I go through my to-read list and just pick what I'm in the mood for.

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When will we see the first professor in memetics?
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>>8229117

Meme is just layman vernacular for a concept that has existed in philosophy for like a thousand years. Yes, that's how pleb you are.
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>>8229129
Same could be said about a lot of things.
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>>8229129
pleb or no, at least he's not a summer who needs to lurk mor

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What's the general opinion about this book?
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>>8229051

Never read it but can tell it's extremely pleb just from the title.
Serious books aren't titled this way.
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#rare
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I liked it

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>it's a story within a story
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>>8229047
>the narrator is the protagonist
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>>8229047

>The city is the protagnist
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>>8229047
>the moon is the protagonist

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Orson Scott Card argues that having themes in mind, before creating a character, creates characters as cardboard cutouts, rather than believable characters.

He argues that if the audience were to recognize a theme in some piece, it takes them out of the story, it takes breaks the reader's stream of consciousness.

He argues that themes will naturally form out of interesting character conflict, and setting conflicts, and should be left this way, rather than adapting characters to certain endings or beginings, to fulfill a theme.

Allow the audience to...
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it's a fairly reasonable stance to take.
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>>8229023
>believable characters
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>>8229023
>it takes them out of the story, it takes breaks the reader's stream of consciousness.

He's right about characters tending to turn into ideograms rather than people if authors focus too much on the themes. However, being "taken out of the story" isn't really a problem for me. Books aren't video games. Recognizing themes is an important part of the reading process.

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Infinite Jest in television

So what other shows or movies have you seen this book been mentioned? I can only think of Man Seeking Woman and The Middle where it's basically name dropped.
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What would be the TV equivalent to Infinite Jest?
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Man Seeking Woman is written by Simon Rich, a very funny writer in his own right. As for The Middle, I've never heard of it and I don't know why it referenced IJ.
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>>8228992

One of the main character's in The Middle is obsessed with books and he gets Infinite Jest for Christmas in one episode

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with all the rad puppies and sad puppy stuff going on
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>>8228977
>with all the rad puppies and sad puppy stuff going on
what are you talking about
literary circles would only by accused of racism by people that would automatically accuse all educated or white people of racism
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>>8228977
Probably not but it's 2016. Everything is racist now.
>>
I do think its funny how often in fantasy the author inserts a civilization of black people on the periphary of the story, and their society is a flawless isolationist utopia.
Like the author is terrified of being called racist so he has black people in his world, but doesnt have black people in the story, if that makes sense.

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That's a really insightful point that you've communicated well. I had no idea people thought of things like that and I now feel much more informed on the topic.

Or, no, wait, you're missing the point that all art is shit. Nothing has changed since Artaud said "all writing is garbage. People who come out of nowhere to try to put into words any part of what goes in in their minds are pigs. The whole literary scene is a pigpen, especially today."

Literary history isn't just people writing great work but people telling other people that...
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If you're just in it for the plot and storytelling, why do you care what other criteria might go into picking books? If you had a room full of all of the best books in history and knew both that they were all literary the best books ever written and that you could only read a finite number of them, what would be the argument against reading only the ones that had blue covers? Or only the ones that are in the Realist mode? Or only books that are shorter than 300 pages? Or only the ones by women? Or only the ones by men? Why is one of these options okay but the rest are utterly unacceptable for a reading list?

Most people read based on aesthetics. And yet somehow we've ended up with a literary history and canon that predominantly celebrates white males. Maybe, somehow, that's not a coincidence? For example, maybe white males aren't the only ones to create texts of aesthetic worth but are mostly the only ones? Sounds reasonable.

After all, we're only reading books of aesthetic worth and it's mostly white men, and any argument that we should we read more women or brown people is met with the outrage and shouting about only reading books based on aesthetic worth. Or is that too much inductive logic?

Even if you walked into a library without having ever seen a book or read a word or heard someone talk about western literature in your entire life, pulled a random book off the shelf, and said "hey, have you guys heard about this Shakespeare guy? He seems pretty cool," you would still be within the context of a library which has limited funds to acquire books and thus will naturally acquire books that someone at some point decided were of value to others. If you're in a bookstore, someone thought it would sell or otherwise had the money to make sure it's printed.

You are not absent from the literary tradition that said, first, that women were not intelligent enough to write, and, later, that, okay, maybe they can write (even though they should not have been educated enough to put together that many words and sentences), but it's just not aesthetically pleasing and that has nothing to do with their genitalia. Or, else you say that the genre that is predominantly female is of little literary value despite being culturally dangerous. You don't need to pick one, you can pick a few because it's a grab-bag.

Jane Eyre actually gets a shout-out on the cover of Joanna Russ' How to Suppress Women's Writing. Here's a gem from Wikipedia regarding the androgynous penname Jane Eyre was originally published under:

Speculation about the identity and gender of the mysterious Currer Bell heightened with the publication of Wuthering Heights by Ellis Bell (Emily) and Agnes Grey by Acton Bell (Anne).[12] Accompanying the speculation was a change in the critical reaction to Charlotte's work, as accusations were made that the writing was "coarse",[13] a judgement more readily made once it was suspected that Currer Bell was a woman.[14]
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Do you know what happens when a Victorian publisher thinks your writing is too coarse and/or unlikely to get carried by Mudie's? You don't get published, even if you wrote what would be acknowledge as the best novel in English history. Or maybe you publish under a name like George Eliot so that people won't be looking to define your work based on your genitals.
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This is probably the most autistic thread on 4Chan right now.

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>writing a essay
>subject is perfectly adressed for undergrad level
>still 7 pages shorter than required

What do I do now? I'm just using redundant theory now that makes the text feels fat of references. What this minimum page requirement is supposed to accomplish? Is this a warning sign of shitty teacher?
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it's a sign that you're a shitty writer
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>>8228926
>writing a essay
Yup, its just you.
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>>8228926
Your problem is that you did not outline your paper. Here's my method:

>The required number of pages is your basic template
>Make a list of subtopics related to the main subject of discussion
>Allocate an equal amount of space for each subtopic within those pages

This is not a hard rule. Obviously, you will have more to say on some points but breaking up the space makes the whole process easier.


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what arguments against the oxford comma exist
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>>8228917
it removes hilarious ambiguity
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Those at the ceremony were the commodore, the fleet captain, the donor of the cup, Mr. Smith, and Mr. Jones
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inb4 who gives a fuck about

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/lit/ is nothing but a bunch shitposting and people procrastinating. Barely see any serious discussion on this forum. Only solution is for /lit/ to become one big book circle reading the whole western canon. what is this forum for if not for encouraging reading and enabling serious literary discussions?

And why does this inot already exist?
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>>8228880
People here like to pretend only "patrician" books matter but nobody reads that shit, so shitposting about books we haven't read is all that is left to do.
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Are you serious? Coming to a forum to post about books you have never read must be the stupidest thing i have ever heard of. Do you really do this?
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And yet you post nothing about books. Would ya look at that!

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>Some may seize on it as a masterpiece, but it is a bloated monster of a book. (...) The bloat is a consequence of sheer adipose verbosity and an unremitting condition of moral and intellectual flatulence.
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nobody that matters said this about IJ

STOP TRYING TO RUIN DFW'S NAME
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>>8228870
Not an argument.
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Is this is the only book you care about? Have you read a single book in your life or you just shitpost? Why every tenth post here have to be about IJ, where most of the people haven't even read it. No one claims it to be a masterpiece of literature. Yes, it's a good book. Please, get your shit together.

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I want to unironically live with no regrets. How can I attain complete satisfaction and be happy with my decisions on my death bed? Does everyone regret something?
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>>8228865
stoicism
>>
Look into existentialism. Read jean paul sartre. Look into humanistic psychology like carl rogers,
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try dying in your sleep ye

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How do I improve my writing, /lit/?
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>>8228774
whats wrong with it
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>>8228774
Generally: Read more and write more
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>>8228774
Read the authors you wish to emulate and write as much as you can. Set realistic goals for writing each day.

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What's the Fullmetal Alchemist of Literature?
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dunno, can anyone think of any highly overrated pleb books that normies love for some reason?
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>>8228763
catcher in the rye
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>>8228772
Infinite Jest

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What's the best book with the most unintentionally bad writing or unintelligent writer? Fiction or non fiction
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my diary desu
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>>8228713
Max Stirner
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>>8228806
Currently reading the ego and his own in the German original (native, so no problems). Stirner seems like a total idiot, but with a good point.

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what are /lit/'s thoughts on alt lit?
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>>8228706
I like that they're all contained in their little bubble so I don't have to pay any attention to them.
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>alt lit is alive
>alt lit ever was alive

go to bed Mira
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What about it makes it 'alt'? Mira Gonzalez is just a shitty confessionalist, Tao Lin is lost in a sea of irony

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is the Constance Garnett translation of Brothers Karamazov good?

pic related.

am i a plebeian?
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>>8228693

It's not just good it's beloved.
Everyone who disagrees is a newfag who got memed by the jew york times and P&V
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>>8228694
i googled it just now after being the book at a used book shop and the New Yorker seems to have their head up their ass.

i know that /lit/ generally hits it on the spot regarding >translations, just wanted to make sure
>>
Get the Avsey translation

>college
>age
>favorite book
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>>8228665

amherst
24
moby dick
>>
Universidad de Oviedo
19
Under The Volcano
>>
Yale
20
The Recognitions

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Who's the greatest writer of all time?
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my diary desu
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>>8228666
satan's diary would be very interesting
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>>8228690
it really wouldn't desu

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what does /lit/ think of these?
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>>8228646

Trash.
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>>8228646
Worse than Twilight. Not even joking. To be fair the kid was only like 16 but still.

My dad loves them though. Whenever he talks about what a great writer Paolini is I get pissed off. We went to see one of those Hobbit movies and he said without a hint of irony that they were good but that they copied a lot from Eragon.
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>>8228646
It was my favorite series as a child.
I am actually afraid to reread them now because I know I'll probably think they're garbage.

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never read any bolano. seems like most people on here like 2666 more - any reason to not start with that? is savage detectives more accessible/anyone like that one more?
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I read Savage Detectives. I started 2666 twice but never made it past the first 150 pages. I'll go back and take it down one day.

Savage Detectives strikes me as more accessible. It is also pretty awesome.
>>
start with Distant Star
>>
Savage Detectives is still a pretty beastly novel. 600+ pages, constantly shifting narrators, non-linear, etc.

His shorter works are good, and more "traditional", therefore easier to get into.

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just finished. like it. wasn't incredible. credit to him for seemingly inventing the style of using complicated/fractal plot structure with absurdist irony. or did he? but by the end, the sections not re: wyatt were pretty tough to get through, and his habit of making fun of people through overheard dialogue grew tired. anyways, i did like it - should i try "junior" or is it "j.r.", or is that worse? the themes of it sound more interesting. anyone who has read the recognitions and not seen orson welles' 'f is for fake' should check it...
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>>8228603
There is an interview on youtube where he goes on about the title meanings and what he is trying to do with constraints.
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reading it right now, p fun read :) story went right from wyatt to this otto fella and caught me off guard. gotta keep yer wits about ya with this book
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>>8228603
Today I started it (the first chapter) and It's really good so far.

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How do you make yourself read books?

For some reason my mind just wants to be turned off and watch TV or a movie instead, and just sit there and not have to think about anything.

It seems like that is normal for a lot of people, but I want to change it because I really want to read some philosophy books cause I am a faggot with no self control.

However, how do I make it so that I actually WANT to read books? Like I feel like I'll never succeed unless I actually start craving it, cause like I said I have no self control. But for some reason my mind...
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>>8228524
Monitoring for interest. I've become completely stagnant.

Resulting ins a failed interview for a UN job as I didn't even follow the latest news anymore. I haven't done anything in the past year. It's like I didn't exist at all. I didn't read nor did I even play video games. I just surfed the webs and retained no information at all.
>>
>>8228524
By following the deep pit of despair floating in my horizon and tailing it down til I'm in the familiar, comforting aura of banality that spawns any inkling of creativity I posses. Once there, I've no other recourse but to feed the void with copious amounts of prose, like a heroin addict who will only rouse his body for the next bit of smack.
>>
YOU PICK THE BOOK

RIGHT

YOU OPEN THE BOOK

RIGHT

YOU MOVE TO THE FIRST PAGE WITH LETTERS YOU SEE
RIGHT

YOU READ IT

RIGHT

its like teaching retarded kids shake my head ( s M H)

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Can you recommend any good books on buddhism and the principles of buddhism? Or just any books about spiritual identity
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For a beginner, read "What the Buddha Taught"
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Hermann Hesse - Siddhartha
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>>8228432
check warosu

So who exactly IS Sunday?
What is he doing it for?
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>>8228390
He's God.
I have no idea.
>>
a nightmare
>>
He does it for free

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>What is the body without organs of a book? There are several, depending on the nature of the lines considered, their particular grade or density, and the possibility of their converging on a "plane of consistency" assuring their selection. Here, as elsewhere, the units of measure are what is essential: quantify writing. There is no difference between what a book talks about and how it is made. Therefore a book also has no object. As an assemblage, a book has only itself, in connection with other assemblages and in relation to other bodies without...
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Sounds like they can't do conceptual readings of books without bringing in cultural critiques, as if books are only reactions.
>>
>>8228381
Why would they?
>>
>>8229628
Well, the point of scholarship is not simply to put words on paper but to be correct.

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Has anyone here ever heard of Toiletpaper magazine? Somebody mentioned it to me in passing today, and I can't find very much about it online. Looks cool but I want to hear a review before I go around buying wordless books.

Not sure if /lit/ is quite the right place for this, but I wasn't sure where else to go. Kick me out if this doesn't fit.

http://www.toiletpapermagazine.org/
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>>8228244
for a moment I thought that was from a gloryhole movie
>>
go market your shit someplace else
>>
>>8228244
>this fucking website

this mobile based shit is killing me...

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Why do the endings to books always suck?

Pic related
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>>8228132
>reading for plot
>>
>>8228139
Endings though. I used to read the last page of the book before reading the whole thing.

I might start doing that again.
>>
>>8228132
>always
did you read all of them
>neuromancer
Gibson couldn't write for shit. the plot has no momentum and the descriptions are suicide-worthy. He did have amazing ideas though, but that doesn't mean it's a good book.

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>Plato had defined the human being as an animal, biped and featherless, and was applauded. Diogenes plucked a fowl and brought it into the lecture-room with the words, ‘Here is Plato’s human being.’ In consequence of which there was added to the definition, ‘having broad nails’

The best mind in philosophy
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Then Plato added, "but with nails."

Neither had the answers. Diogenes was an entertaining contrarian and Plato was a loud-but-quiet guy with too-fiery-emotions.

I'm sure neither of them ever said that, though. It was probably just two random guys.
>>
>>8227920
>Diogenes was an entertaining contrarian
yea that's my point
>>
Diogenes is what happens when you take Socratic thought to its logical conclusion. But, more importantly, he is credited with planting the seeds for Stoicism . To me his nost admirable trait was his idea of living with minimal possessions and being the most free ,healthy, and most philosophically noble as a result of that life


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