Monogatari. I mean it's a moot question since most animes do begin as light novels- by default "literature". But Monogatari, even in the anime, focuses on literary elements such as dialogue, characterization and symbolism. Most importantly- it experiments with language itself, focusing on the written word. Now if that's not literary then I've been reading the wrong literary theories (and I haven't.) There's also booty and rape which is nice. (pic related)
Oh, and OP's pic related is not literature. It's beyond literature. It's more beautiful and meaningful than literature will ever be- it's politics <3
Gankutsuou: The Count of Monte Cristo is a pretty decent science fiction anime that gets creative with its source material and tunes up the characters' melodrama and angst by 11, while respecting its literary origins.
Anime is moving images on a screen whereas literature is narration either written down or not. Therefore anime cannot by definition be considered literature, high or low brow.
But we can discuss about anime that has literary properties. The problem is a lot of people here have an odd view on literature. I'd call it elitist but it's not. It's just a misinterpretation of the definition.
For me, if it has good narration and characterization, if it seems to communicate with the literary epochs (contemporary or past), if it skilfully uses literary tropes (allegory or symbolism, for example) then yes we can call it "like literature."
Only someone with no literary sense whatsoever will focus on style and the medium it reflects (fan service or comic relief for example) and use it to refute all but his own preferences when answering this simple and quite theoretical question.
Anime is very casual. The dialogue in both English and Japanese is based on slang, the humor often relies on slapstick out of character moments for the protagonists, and there are typically too many unexplained anachronisms and fantastical elements in anime settings for the genre to ever be taken seriously as having "literary" properties.
Anime is the majority of the time made to be watched with a beer and a pizza or laughed at with your buddies on the weekends, not be discussed as deep and meaningful art or literature.
It's a sometimes emotionally moving but undeniably shallow saga of gratuitous bloodshed and rape meant to titillate people who on some level enjoy depictions of violence. You can't pretend that series is anything but.
Idk, dude, sounds to me like you've got a specific taste in anime. I'm sure this thread will prove you're wrong. pick up some of the recommendations you see here. Sure you can watch them over a beer and pizza, but I really don't think it's possible that there's nothing artistic or literary about it and that you've come to this conclusion with certainty.
Is Evangelion the Ulysses of anime? They're both immensely influential on their respective artforms, having reshaped their medium as a whole. But at the same time, they're very unconvential works, and despite being so influential there are very little works that are like it.
K, man it's not like I think your opinion has no credibility or basis in truth. Honestly, nobody can expect anyone to consider anything but "literature" to be "literary"- it's almost an ontological problem.
Say...can you give me an example of something you WOULD call "like literature" that's not literature? A movie or whatever. I just wanna gauge your standards I guess.
>something you WOULD call "like literature" that's not literature?
There are a few classic films that come to mind, but the examples I can think of (Marathon Man, 2001, The Maltese Falcon) were directly based on literary sources.
More recently exist other film auteurs such as Wes Anderson and Jim Jarmusch who base their films on the themes of particular authors (Anderson's settings and themes are often a dead ringer for Salinger's) or literary movements.
Have to agree here. Rewatched this series after taking a handful of Political Science classes and cringed at the main characters' (protagonists, antagonists, and various obstructive officials') very simplistic understanding. Was also watching it with a friend who was recently commissioned as a reserve officer in the military who kept commenting "nobody in the military acts that way!" at several points.
So you do, ontologically, only attribute literariness to literature, at least by proxy.
I mean that's cool. I guess I just have a more...humanist? sense of literature. Like, 3 thousand years ago people used to tell stories over a campfire and that was (unless my education got it wrong)- literature. So I guess I don't see why animators telling stories using computers could not, in today's world, be at least considered "literary". I mean, literature isn't "the great American novel." Literature includes the epic, the generic, the pop, the folklore...That doesn't mean there are no standards. It doesn't mean a 13 year old can make up a story and scholars should be forced to define it as "literature". There are standards- that's literary theory. I just think this theory can be applied to a much broader field- and I think this can give us more insight rather than limit it.
But I guess our differences then are in notion and not in taste, value or style. Which is good because, as >>6374763 said: we should learn to appreciate mediums for what they are. Judging by your beer and pizza- you CAN do that. So really...no point arguing over definitions.
Except that consumerism is something that involves literally everybody who has or spends money, and most people have at least a passing familiarity with drug culture from its frequent references in mainstream entertainment media
"Otaku" are a very specific subset and subculture of consumers. If you're marketing something toward otakus, you're going to have a very small base of buyers from the start. Not to mention that gearing a work of fiction to that community means not only will that work of fiction sell poorly, but also that it won't have any great degree of universality.
>>6374811 >you probably even think the plural of "virus" should be "virii" or some fuckup like that
Nah. It depends on the spoken pr written language and what derivation the people normally use- since everyone says "viruses" there's no point in prescribing "virii" or shit like that. But don't tell me "phenomenons" is legit cause Imma cap a bitch.
"Otaku" or "Otakus" isn't really common in discourse. I don't think there are any rules. We can just argue what sounds better. Which the anon does and so do you.
>>6374801 You've missed the point of the post - the parallel is between the common forms of existence between the two novels, not the nature of the substance and its particularities to the extent that it detracts in relevance of description for the frame of its use in relating the reader to the character.
Also, the particularities of Otaku consumption are cloaked under the generalities of consumerism - but just because society is robed in this cloak does not make everyone an Otaku per se; your post implies an absolute separation by recognition of the unique distinction by recognizing it as a subculture - caused by an ill-defined use of the term 'consumerism'.
>>6374871 Lol check this nerd. >>6374855 Mediocre taste. Bet you have figurines and plushies.
AKIRA Tatami Galaxy (b/c it's literally a light novel) LOGH, yes. It's also a book adaptation, so that feels natural... I completely disagree with the anon up there that said the characters were underdeveloped tropes. Everyone that's outside of Reinhard and Yang's most inner circles are more underdeveloped -- especially people like Poplan, but the main ways they're characterized comes from subtleties and how they deal with the events that happen to them.
Some examples are Yang's war guilt and his desire to return to a civilian life, Reinhard's reactionary mindset shifts after episode 26, etc.
It's a tad unfair to criticize it for lack of character development. I do think they spend way too much time introducing characters that don't really matter in the long run, but due to the nature of the military battles that seems almost necessary.
>entire thread is entry level bullshit Asking for highbrow anime here is like asking /a/ for highbrow literature. If OP really wants an answer to their question, they'd be better off just asking the diehard elitists on /a/
>>6374637 Kino's Journey is a failure of a show in every respect. The biggest problems with it lie in its very foundation: each and every one of its conflicts are entirely too brief to say anything substantial, and the few things it does say are completely one-sided. These issues are compounded by weak characters, even weaker production values, and the entire gosh-darned structure of the show being ridiculously flawed. Kino's Journey builds each of its episodes out of the same age-old "what if..." questions we know quite well from sci-fi. The problem is that Kino does not give enough attention to ANY of these questions. The potentially interesting subject of what labor really means, for example, is entirely glossed over simply because the show's format does not allow it to go any further than that. Kino's Journey has a tendency to bite off more than it can chew. Attempting to examine the essence of an extremely broad subject like communication in a mere 20 minutes is almost insulting. These subject require time to breath, to examine different perspectives, to witness them in a more well-rounded and unhurried capacity. Kino's Journey instead opts to be nothing more than a hastily cobbled together and cripplingly insubstantial Cliff's Notes on various schools of thoughts.
It isn't even a matter of it presenting questions for the audience to mull over after the episode is through. No, it answers its own questions, and it does so in the most fallacious, disingenuous way possible. While Kino is a neutral to a fault "character", the show itself clearly has a stake in one side of each conflict. Having a marked perspective in a work is hardly an inherent flaw, but the show stoops to being blatantly reductionistic to the other side of the conflict to make its point. Take the first episode, ostensibly a commentary on the ins and outs of communication: what it actually amounts to is a paltry piece of propaganda. Largely inoffensive propaganda, but propaganda nonetheless. What we're shows is technology being some sort of catalyst for everyone effectively being able to hear each other's id. This leads to everyone voluntarily becoming isolated. This is a crass overgeneralization at best. I mean, this entire club is dedicated to ideas that conflict those in this episode. Technology does not turn us into animals, operating entirely on instinct. But Kino's Journey stealthily ignores any ideas that don't jive with its own, and the end result feels intellectually dishonest at every turn. It wants you to believe in its ideals, its philosophies, and it will stoop as low as necessary to ensure this.
>>6375015 Also problematic is the entire structure of the show! Dissecting societal issues in the way it does ignores the way that different facets of society coalesce. Communication can not be examined in a bubble. Everything around it shapes it, as does the converse. These ideas would be better served integrated more naturally into a better-realized setting (a la GitS SAC). Of course, removing these ideas from their shallow parable-istic (totes not a word) formula would reveal their unflattering bits falling apart at the seams. And we can't have that now, can we?
Nearly everyone Kino meets along her journey is a laughably one-dimensional caricature of whatever idea they represent. The only exception I can think of to this is the girl who is trying to build a plane, but this is only bright point when looked at aside the show's plethora of dead bulbs. Even she is an underdeveloped and idealized character, but at least there's some life to her, something almost human that makes her tick. As for the main characters, Hermes is a dimwitted motorcycle with the perpetual intonation of a child begging his mother to take him to the bathroom. His sole purpose is to give Kino a jumping-off point for her pseudo-philisophical musings, if you could even call them hers; Kino is an empty-slated author mouthpiece of the worst kind. Hiding under the thin veneer of vague nothings that dribble out of her mouth is, well, nothing. It could be argued that she is simply a medium, a means of conveying the journey, which is a fair enough point and one that I can agree with. However, when the journey is as bad as it is, the end result is only recursive shit.
Production values are fatally stilted and obscured by dreadful scan lines. The animation is incredibly stiff in ways that inhibits one's ability to become properly immersed in what little atmosphere the show might have to offer. Pivotal dramatic scenes are rendered hilarious at the hands of this lusterless production, such as the scene where the adult traveler in episode 4 just kind of lumbers himself into a motionless knife. This problem poisons the well and just about every moment in Kino's Journey is worse off for it. Character interactions, the feeble backbone of how the show extolls its half-assed morals/"philosophies", are always inhumanly stiff and difficult to take seriously, completing the perfect picture of a really, really bad show.
>>6374613 There's a lot of great science-fiction in anime if you're into that stuff. Right up there with some of the best books. This anon>>6374871 has excellent taste. Wings of Honneamise is probably one of the best original science-fiction movies ever made. Ideon's great too but Tomino's thing is more heavy homage to the big 3 with his own twist on their stuff. Not that there's anything wrong with that.
>>6374924 Porco Rosso is objectively the best one.
>>6374956 I think that the live-action ones are more interesting, Oshii's writing is much cooler when combined with his direction and Kenji Kawaii's scores. Jin-Roh's still good for being WAY more accessible though, it's also incredibly pretty and incredibly solid overall.
Nausicaa (manga) Blame! (manga) and Sidonia no Kishi (either) Princess Tutu Kino no Tabi Mushishi Death Parade (maybe) Utena LoGH NGE obligatory Haibane Renmai Spice and Wolf because economics Baccano Samurai Flamenco Lain Monster Monogatari Death Note, maybe
>>6375125 Awww is rotoscoping too much for you? Is a conclusive ending to a short series something you don't like? Do you enjoy being spoon fed? And entry level, I have yet to meet anyone who only watches mainstream anime that knows about Aku no Hana and Katanagatari.
>>6375156 Maybe in your opinion, myself and everyone I watched the show with thoroughly enjoyed it, it had a great atmosphere that was genuinely unnerving and the visuals were refreshing in their own way, and the classroom destruction scene was unreal.
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