Why do anything if nothing matters?
I feel as if nothing I'm doing right now matters, I wish I could curl into a ball and descend into non-existence. What is the point? Is there really none, what if there is in religion? How to find the joy to live and search?
So, to be clear. The only way out of nihilism is through spooks is that correct?
You make your own meaning, set your own goal.
The logical end-point of nihilism (which is what you're experiencing) is to simply allow yourself to die. Don't kill yourself, just stop eating and drinking anything until you discover you're about to die. Then, die.
Did you read History of Western Philosophy?
The chapters on German Idealism were abysmal.
How do you mean?
It is rubbing a part of your skin which triggers the movement of serotonin with in your brain.
How is rubbing a specific part of your skin in to and against things any way to live your life?
This is really something you, OP, and anyone who's feeling existential should consider. You enjoy your existential crisis. you think it would be epic and awesome to "descend into non-existence" and you find meaning in negating it.
Isn't there the philosophical dilemma of the "joy machine"?
As in, a hypothetical machine which will provide you with, ahem, "infinite je-oy" stands before you.
You can choose to be hooked up to it for eternity or... not.
I would choose not to.
The sedative is only the desire which allows you to move, take action,
but not the actual product.
The product reveals itself in its Genesis.
Take sedatives, but do not think that is why you are living life.
You are conjuring some thing you do not yet know of.
Live as long as is possible,
forever if needs be.
If you truly and deeply believed life was meaningless and void of and reason to continue living you'd cease doing so. Yet since you're still here, I'm assuming, then there is a reason.
The reason being is the very question you asked. What is the meaning of it all. Your meaning is the yearning to know it. Education, self reflection and possibly some xanax will help you fulfill this yearning you need so much.
>I mean you're not an authority on the matter since you've never been laid.
No, I do not agree with that.
I am an authority on the matter in so far as I am.
I have already thrown my idea out and it either makes sense or it does not.
You have not responded or elaborated on what I said,
you have just said:
"well, that's like, your opinion".
I have not taken every drug known to man,
but I can still remark on it.
And masturbation/ sexual intercourse are essentially the same thing,
the same hormonal reaction et cetera.
Nothing matters. Life gave meaning to matter when interests were created. You have to find something you are interested in and seek to fill your plate with that interest. A meteor could crash into your gay face right now kill everything ever. Make sure you were at least having a good time before it hit.
Your opinion is meaningless because you don't have the prerequisite experience to provide a sense of perspective. All your ideas about love or sex are abstract hypotheticals and pseudo-intellectual rhetoric.
I have attached a movie scene to try to illustrate my point.
>Your opinion is meaningless because you don't have the prerequisite experience to provide a sense of perspective
I haven't taken every prescription drug either,
but one infers what may happen.
I do not agree with your line of thought.
It falls in to the category of an elaborate sedative,
in so far as I am aware,
just as falling off a cliff falls in to the category of death inducing activities,
even though I have not experienced it.
>All your ideas about love or sex are abstract hypotheticals and pseudo-intellectual rhetoric
Which you do not have a counter argument to,
thus embodying precisely what is "pseudo intellectual".
>to illustrate my point.
You just said "You can't know some thing until you have experience it" which is wrong.
Mr. Williams is condescending in the scene.
I realise the other person is a brat,
but he still is not correct, in itself.
His point is sentimental, romantic.
Just ignore your nihilism. You know you just want to bask in pseudo-meaningful nihilism. Just do shit and try to experience things, stop being an annoying idiot and don't pretend like you need faith or some shit.
>one infers what may happen
>in so far as I am aware
My point is that you are incapable of understanding my point, which you just proved. You me theorize about what I mean abstractly, Just like you theorize about what sex must be like, but you lack true understanding.
Disagree if you like, but I am telling you you don't even understand what you're disagreeing with.
>My point is that you are incapable of understanding my point, which you just proved
But it is just as likely that there is no point.
>you lack true understanding
Again, you could just be pretending to "understand", when in fact you do not.
You are talking of some unattainable beyond,
where supposedly rubbing skin against other skin provides you with a transcendental experience.
Why should I believe you?
>you don't even understand what you're disagreeing with
There is no reason for me to absorb this,
nor would it be in any way beneficial.
I only know what I know and what you have said is confined to a scene from a film I have seen a few times as a child.
Your view seems sentimental/ romantic.
Ah I like you. Are you referring to the Star Trek book? I had to google that and from what I understand from my googling is that Timshel is drowning in a tech version of soma that guarantees each citizen perfect happiness.
So what I think of the Joy Machine dilemna is that it's the end game for life as we know it. In a Utilitarian view I see it as a victory but in a Kantian view I see it as a loss. I can't really pick a side but here are my thoughts.
This is a situation that takes advantage of our chase for pleasure. Pleasure is a tool for an organism's self preservation and sometimes can guide intelligent beings into curiosity. It's why we want to have sexuality and therefor procreate. I will define Happiness as a chase for beneficial factors that over time outweigh the bad ones. So Happiness can only exist with the nexus of perceived improvement or benefit. I've seen this documentary in pic related and played many video games. The joymachine is game over by beating the game. The joy is playing the game and unlocking new skills and having a progression. Creating an infinite game that captivates interest as fast as you can never get bored of it would be loss for Kirk and Spock looking at the people in Timshel but kind of all Timshel ever needed. Timshel has fulfilled their own purpose.
(I was going to go on a thing about red pill, blue pill, soma but I think this is a good summary of my thoughts)
In reading, writing, drawing, composing et cetera,
you are conjuring some thing which can be reused,
and shares an idea which may lead to enlightenment/ some thing which can not now be understood,
because it has not yet been constructed.
Sedatives, such as sexual intercourse, do not construct any thing.
It is the "joy machine".
I don't care about the "joy machine",
or may be I "care",
but what I care about is irrelevant.
I may conjure some thing can not be understood until it is constructed.
That is some thing I may choose to pursue as opposed to just take sedatives.
I may take sedatives as well,
but where there is choice, or I have.... "pseudo-faith" in the choice,
I choose to not avoid the "joy machine",
but fluctuate through it,
toward another goal,
the construction of that which is not to be understood until it is constructed,
which realises itself in its Genesis,
be it the knowledge imparted in Literature,
the writing of a text or the drawing of an illustration.
>Are you referring to the Star Trek book?
No. I was under the impression it was a philosophical dilemma which was dealt with in 1st semester philosophy classes,
but perhaps I am mistaken.
I do not follow,
would you hook yourself up or not?
I would not.
>why should I believe you?
>It's just as likely there is no point
I could swear to you that I am telling the truth but the only way for you to know is to find out. Go find a girl, build a real relationship with her, suffer together, fear together, eat together, and make love. If you don't feel anything then I was lying and you have been trolled out of your virginity. If on the other hand you gain some "transcendental experience" then you will understand me. But until you do that you won't know. It would be like inferring what a book is about. I can read all the criticism of 1001 Arabian Nights or Jude the Obscure or any book but until I actually read the book itself I am unqualified to comment on it. this is an imperfect analogy understand, the point holds true for sex and other experiential pleasures.
Here, what most wont do for you:
1)If you are not dead and reading this then you have been successfully programmed by evolution to survive in the current conditions.
2)You must feed yourself and you do feed yourself in order to comply with your programming.
3)sounds like you are being sponsored by someone, I am guessing your parents.
4)Since you have the essentials you require for survival you must now ask yourself what you are gonna do with the rest of your life.
5)The word meaning is usually defined by society(the only thing that is responsible for the definition of words, i.e. what they signify) to be synonymous with words like cause, purpose and explanation.
It is similar to many words but to me it seems its only special use is when asking about the signification of a word. What does marketplace "mean". What does this word signify to according to some socially accepted understandings.
If you want to ask for the PURPOSE of life you must understand that purpose is given to things by entities that make conscious decisions.
The question of purpose is the lingual articulation of our actions, i.e. why do i move my leg forward? to be able to walk forward.
It is a question, it seems to me, that represents that thinking is language.
Evolution or natural processes that formed us cannot give purpose to what results from them.
You deice to give things purpose like making a chair you can rest on. you have a goal and you strive to achieve it.
Your problem is that you have no goals. You do not engage with the world and are not forced to cause someone is providing for you.
The moment you are forced to survive or start engaging with the world and desire to do things, you will see your actions become purposeful because you are trying to achieve something.
>99% of the people who think such thoughts live wayyyyyyyyyy too easy lives.
>you need to start taking risks.
This is only a distraction. The only special thing about humans is our ability to think of these things. To willingly distract ourselfes from them is to become subhuman
>the only way for you to know is to find out
I do not need to know.
I have my inferral and that is it.
>If on the other hand you gain some "transcendental experience" then you will understand me
This could be true for any thing.
>the point holds true for sex and other experiential pleasures
No, it does not.
I would not. I did a lot of googling for that "joy machine" dilemma because I haven't taken an actual class in Philosophy but am now inclined to do so. I am in my first year of college.
You got me. I guess you smelt the Newfag on me after all.
It has "worked" so far.
Well, I am not sure exactly how different it would be if I had not constructed the notion,
but now that I have I basically need to have this "pseudo faith" to do any thing at all.
It has basically been my "mantra" of sorts for the past few days.
>I have my inferral and that is it.
We agree that's all that you have intellectually speaking. An inference. A poorly reasoned guess about something you know nothing about. You dismiss something that I and i'm sure other people would try to warn you is a monumental of existential enlightenment based on a hunch. I have no more to say to you for now, I would hope you try to keep an open mind in the real world.
At the moment you are like a house cat that no longer needs to do anything. It has been separated from the conditions it evolved to survive under.
Purpose only comes after a desire to do something, which in most cases is a result of necessity.
Your incoherent questions about meaning are just a signal of your desire to reengage with the world and with people.
You are begging for engagement with the world but mistake it for something else.
Well, all you have to do, is do something.
What? what should you do with the rest of your life? Think about something that you felt convenient with that involves the need to achieve something.
You read a lot of books? ok, challenge yourself, set a goal to write a short story. You watch tons of movies? challenge yourself start reading film theory or buy a camera and start shooting films with others.
Join a book club...
When people post "you need to get laid" they precisely mean that you need to engage with the world. become responsible for something, set some goals for yourself and try to achieve them.
>When people post "you need to get laid" they precisely mean that you need to engage with the world. become responsible for something, set some goals for yourself and try to achieve them.
That makes little to no sense.
These boorish humanist statements are useless.
What he means is partake in skin rubbing.
It is an opiate. A sedative.
You will probably again ask, but why do anything and my answer will again be, cause you have to do something, you cant not do anything at all, you are not an inanimate object. This thread obviously points to the fact that what you are doing or not doing at the moment, no longer satisfies you.
engaging in activity is the only way to create purpose for one's actions. He does it all the time, as we all do but he no longer feel satisfied with what he is doing so he must do something else.
His incoherent question about meaning is just him saying he is no longer pleased with his life.
He needs to stop doing what he is doing now and do something else. problem solved.
>he is no longer pleased with his life.
but the pleasure is just the vessel used toward the generation of actual substance.
>He needs to stop doing what he is doing now and do something else.
A habit of reading, meditation and drawing may be ideal.
Religion is just a great motivator for those who were not prepared by their parents to think and engage themselves. If your parents didnt create anchors and passions for you and instead it was just them telling you what to do all the time you will find religion to be a good motivator but, of course, its gonna be hard to convince yourself a god exists in this day and age.
You have to look back at your life and try to find something you always enjoyed and think of somewhat to engage with that. You have to create a passion for yourself based on your existing life experience.
Sure, but I need to give you the password some how.
Do you have skype?
You do realise there are no other posters on it at this point of time, right?
I am not even sure if it will kick off,
the only thing to do is to try.
here is the situation
your brain is afflicted by the very norm condition of getting a little hazy between extremely large and infinitely large objects. the world is not "empty", things are capable of mattering. if they were not, you would not be asking this question.
your lament is of practical nature. everything you can see is mundane, insignificant and pointless. your distress only means that you're able to dream of more.
>How to find the joy to live and search?
Are you poetically inhabiting and safeguarding the fourfold in its essential unfolding?
It appears that you are suffering from unconscious despair. It appears that you are in crisis.
Because you have not found something to BE.
Because you are not adventuring on life NOW.
The time is ripe to enter the molting season.
I remember finding meaninglessness very problematic for a long time, but now when I think about it seems so obvious that any alternative seems absurd to me.
What would a world where things have inherent meaning and inherently matter even look like? Sounds really strange and impossible and also maybe a bit shitty.
There's a comic I read where people and objects which were inherently meaningful (due to being incarnations of things like Tyranny and Freedom and Sadism and Youth) had technicolor highlights.
Here is an easy, three-step starting-point for subduing these bleak feelings:
1. Get a copy of Walden.
2. Get a field identification guide for the birds in your region of the world.
2. Set your alarm clock for 4:45 AM, begin to go on early morning walks, identify the birds you see and hear, and contemplate your dreams and what you read from Walden the night before.
I am the threatening angel, the black guardian, the darkness that divides the moonlight.
Holy shit did ribbit really simplify this for idiots who can't read a paragraph? What's the point at all if there's no recommended reading for each category?
I'm not depressed or anything like that but I have been sort of entertaining the idea of suicide a bit as an easy way out but reached a sort of realization that I'll never end up killing myself mainly because I'm a product of incredible circumstance so might as well take advantage of it. Considering two people (my parents) met at the precise time for them to fall in love and later want kids at the moment when I was a sperm in the load in my dads ballsack and I happened to be one of the survivors of the harsh,acidic environment of the pussy as well as the winner of the sprint to the egg... Why the fuck wouldn't I just keep livin life
I feel pretty dumb for complaining about content being cut now, I was so busy getting triggered by the Buddhism description I didn't even notice.
>You are begging for engagement with the world
the world that the cat longs to engage with is the one previously stated to not exist in an accessible way to the cat
>separated from the conditions it evolved to survive under
thus any actions the cat could undertake are not engaging in the world it subconsciously wants to take part of. Only pointless activities remain. The original cause of the cats desire to engage with the "world."
I don't see why people don't seem to get that the world is more and more being bled of anything interesting beyond newly developed technology.
no great wars
no frontiers to expand
no ideals to believe in
no power to wield
no history to write
pain and pleasure make themselves matter, especially pain
break your arm and tell me it doesn't matter
what's that? you're too busy calling the amberlamps?
if nothing matters, then "nothing matters" doesn't matter, it really doesn't matter that nothing matters
what do you want? I want "x" you say, well "x" can in some way always be reduced to "I want pleasure/positive/feelgood/significant/meaningful experiences. Remember 'meaningful' experiences are just a particular type of pleasure.
So you want pleasure? How does one experience pleasure? Many ways. Drugs obviously, sex, friendship, travel, love, solving a problem, building something, philosophical realization, observing the natural world, nice food. Lying in your bed all day staring at a screen of liquid crystals lighting up in particular ways is probably not the best route to pleasure.
I get pleasure by building a base of drugs - morhpine and valium, along with psychiatric prescription drugs. On top of that I eat well, have a good circle of friends, a girlfriend who I enjoy spending time with, and make sure to get a lot of sun and leave the house a lot.
Pleasure is meaningful and it matters to me. In the sense that it matters because it's absence is cold and miserable, I want to avoid that.
Drink and be merry friend, for tomorrow you could die.
You and what you do with your life do matter.
Everything matters, even if you don't understand why you live, that doesn't change that you and your actions matter.
We all go through shitty times, op. Really shitty times. But there will be more good times.
And honestly... I'm a Christian, and I do think there is purpose in there. I'm not trying to force you, but you're asking for help.
And speaking strictly logically, with every action there is a reaction. If you try hard to write a paper, create art, or even move boulders like in the pic, the more you do it, the better you do, and you will make progress.
To find the joy to live and search... just relax in nature from time to time in the sun. Somehow that always cheers me up, op.
>tfw majority of the people in this thread think something mattering means that mattering is somehow inherent to that thing
Meaning is something we create, not something given to us. Things matter only when we make them matter.
>Is it possible to believe in something that you know to be a fiction?
I was under the impression some one had most likely already coined it,
I will use the term from now on,
where I remember to do so.
Do not go gentle into that good night,
Old age should burn and rave at close of day;
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
Though wise men at their end know dark is right,
Because their words had forked no lightning they
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Good men, the last wave by, crying how bright
Their frail deeds might have danced in a green bay,
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
Wild men who caught and sang the sun in flight,
And learn, too late, they grieved it on its way,
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Grave men, near death, who see with blinding sight
Blind eyes could blaze like meteors and be gay,
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
And you, my father, there on the sad height,
Curse, bless, me now with your fierce tears, I pray.
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
Not really. If you want to approach it from a Stirnerite point of view, it is impossible for there to be no reason to live because you are not alive in the first place. All you do is just create.
Why not do anything?
Probably because you don't feel like it. Just like people who do things do so because they feel like it.
The final conclusion of ethical thought: