My friends followed their dreams. They studied journalism, english and architecture while i went to engineering. Now their are all living meaningful lives, doing their art while i am lost and filled with regret.
A friend of mine said i could write science fiction. The problem is that i don't like science fiction. I like literature. I missed the opportunity to learn to do what i wanted. I was so sure i could become a good writer and i was really insecure about engineering, now i am never going to make it.
I just wanted to say to everybody here who wish to make it as an author, go fucking do it. Don't be afraid of not having money and don't be insecure of your intellect if you don't pursue a STEM degree.
You'll be alright m8. Bram Stoker, Flann O'Brien, and Joris-Karl Huysmans all became foundational writers while being civil servants by writing and researching in their own time. Two of them even invented genres.
Feel better op :)
I can relate to you, original poster. All my classmates and most of my teachers looked down on humanities so I got a B.Sc. in mathematics and a M.A. in finance and right now I'm seriously considering going to college again. I have the bitter impression I got deceived; mathematics aren't “cool”, most of the STEM students are clearly uncultured and finance didn't get me a nice position. I had to struggle two years through a bachelor-level job before making a decent earning and I will probably never make it to the top, anyway. I'm going to save up and enroll in history.
Start writing now or just put yourself into you current work so you can get rich and sponsor artists. If you can't do either of those then you're just a bitch looking for an excuse to bitch.
Dyslexia is a complete bullshit, sorry. It gives the one who suffers troubles to read, spell or produce text, it doesn't prevent him from writing correctly. I know a couple of dyslexic people and they had to go through a special education and make much more effort but they managed to master the language like anyone else. I'm fed up with this excuse that allows lazy people to not reread, check their grammar/orthography and learn to speak properly.
You fucking idiot he never negated the existence of dyslexia, he's just saying having it doesn't justify poor writing. Pay more attention so you may not look like a fool the next time you post.
>I doubt any "great writer" would ever make such a basic mistake
>some great writers had dyslexia
>omg dyslexia doesn't even real why are these writers lying
yeh m8 y can't thy jus proofred 4chin?
If he goes to a state school everyone's uncultured but the STEM types can be downright cretinous. Ivy League master race here, so most of my classmates were fascinating except for the Chinese brats.
Sorry, I left the thread. I went to a quite notorious college, I wasn't thinking of ignorance regarding our own subject. We had two Fields medal winners. In highschool, we all mocked the humanities and thought of mathematics/sciences as the most prestigious fields, logically attracting the most interesting, intelligent people. In the end, most mathematics students were “nerds” making endless, stupid jokes and references to Star Wars, Lord of the Rings and other low quality titles. The brightest man in the class who somehow spoke Chinese and Japanese fluently answered “42” to every question while laughing like a retard. They were all parodies of themselves, it was like I was in “The Big Bang Theory”. Many believed they were “too smart” to read, and the few who did only purchased high fantasy and shit-tier science-fiction. They were completely clueless. Physicists and engineers were worse. Only medfags were both bright and cool. I'm still jealous today.
I spent most of my time with them during five years. They're not funny, completely ignorant when it doesn't concern mathematics, physics, Japan and genre fiction, condescendant as hell and elitist. Medfags might not be as smart as them strictly speaking but they're far more cultured—I guess they must be, regarding their field—and fun. They don't mind talking with anyone, they fuck—I seriously had the impression at least mathematics/physics students have no sexual existence because they never, ever speak about it—drink and give two shits about the others. Maybe I had the worst promotion but that's how I felt. Note most professors were “normal” and didn't look like their creepy students.
It's not my kind of readings but I'm fine with it. I don't blame them because they read that, I blame them because they hold it as the pinacle of the human literary history. When a guy tell you Eragon should be taught in school instead of Flaubert, there's clearly a problem of knowledge or taste (probably both). I don't say I would be a doctor, though, I would get a degree in history but I'm talking about what I knew. Humanities were not located on the same campus, I only met STEM and medicine students on a daily basis.
no, I'm a double major in CS and English. Both are awful. English students don't really read, unless you maybe go to yale or oxbridge. Which is fine -- reading is a solitary event. But I do get sick of hearing smug classmates bragging that they've extensively studied WC Williams and that Milton was a great English poet.
OP you have no idea how true this rings for me, last year of pharmacy atm, took it as the easy way out to a comfortable lifestyle where I could read in leisure for the rest of my life. Turns out a fundamental necessity in life is applying myself to something meaningful, now I'm just mentally checking out for 8 hours a day and hating my life. God Damnit
>oubt any “great writer” would ever make such a basic mistake, though.
Several actually did in their letters, etc.
Idiots always think rote memorization is somehow indicative of skill.
>English students don't really read, unless you maybe go to yale or oxbridge
I went for teaching & english dual degree and it fucking sucks. in english I am surrounded by fedoras. degrees like literature are absolute shit except in elite universities. the uni newspaper had a literature master degree student saying "tolstoy is a bit dated and maybe too complex to read nowadays" and unironically liked harry potter
I thought humanities was cool but its filled with self-proclaimed intellectuals with shit taste and no social skills
now I want to change to a proper wagekek degree like economics or law because they'd suck as badly but at least I could make good money 9 months a year and then fuck off to thailand or something for 3 months and pursue my artistic delusions
If OP isn't just shitposting, he's being short sighted about this.
Nobody needs a certain education and degree to be a writer, they only need the talent, time and connections to get their work recognized. Plenty have done it without any formal education in literature and it may have benefited their writing.
Besides this, you have to ask yourself what would actually come of studying the humanities. Unless you go into academia then, you'll go straight into an office job doing irrelevant work to what you studied. If you studied engineering without enjoying it you fucked up from the start.
>A college education has nothing to do with being a writer. You get your education by reading and writing.
also most english students have horrible taste in lit anyway. they barely read seriously outside of coursework. it's a joke.
i did the same thing and totally regret it. wish i could have spent those 4 years educating myself and making intelligent friends instead of just studying technical books and working on assignments. i feel like i'm severely unequipped to tackle the subjects that concern a person my age. i don't know what i'm talking about when it comes to the books i read, or the politicians that i vote for, or the philosophical quandaries i encounter. i'm a complete mouth breathing idiot.
i know i can spend my evenings after my STEM job self-educating, but i have so much to learn that it's daunting to start from ground zero at 23. i'm embarrassed by allof the holes in my knowledge and my thinking that i know would have been filled with a 4 year liberal arts education. i feel way too ignorant for my age. i feel like i don't have the basic rudiments of knowledge it would take for me to engage with intelligent people my age, and the idea of locking myself in my basement every night studying for 4 years to play catch up is terrifying. most of the people i work with are way worse, but that's not really any consolation.
i know this is neurotic and stupid but that's how i feel.
I was so sure i could become a good writer
If you were a genius it would not matter at all what the heck you studied because a genius can't be stopped. You should know that before commiting suicide... And if you are not a genius just start writing to be your Hobby and don't moan about your missed chances, Little snowflake. Really it's rediculous
I'm not the original poster but I don't want to be a writer. I want to read and eventually become a teacher—as a foreign language or not—or a librarian, or whatever is vaguely related to literature. Right now I'm a tax advisor, making about 70k a year after five years and the only good thing about this is that I could apply to work in Hong Kong or in another exotic country. The money means absolutely nothing and I'm not trying to be “edgy” here. I don't like to go on holidays, spend shit in clothes/food/goods or have an amazing home; I already have a small one in a peaceful neighborhood, and I earn way too much to read anything I might buy—I don't have enough time, anyway. Seriously, I would kill now to be a librarian, own a bookstore or teach in a decent highschool.
ay man i was on heroin until i was 22, and then i started self-educating. of course now at 23 i'm enrolled as an english major, but that just means we're on even footing. it's never too late.
also, /lit/ is the best liberal arts education one can find in 2015
Stop whining like a little bitch and simply go write. Your life is not over just because you picked a profession that is going to give you financial security first.
You can save money and then take a little vacation to write. There's a lot you can do so just stop victimizing yourself
At least you know what you really want to do, I'm almost done with my STEM degree and I have come to realize that the only area of interest I thought I had was nothing but a lie I told myself to keep going for the past 1.5 years.
Right now I just want to learn a trade and do something with my hands but I feel like I would regret that decision even more than plowing through another year of STEM for a half assed GPA. It already hurts enough that I wasted so much time on self study for something that I was only in for the financial aspect.
I don't suppose there are people on here who went this route from nerdy STEM to some type of craftsmanship?
I'm the same, but the main reason im even in STEM is because math is my strongest subject. I started reading literature on my free time since highschool. I think you people are making humanities degree programs out to be some cool philosophical adventure where you discuss with your friends about Socrates or whatever. Modern colleges are shit at everything and i least I picked the highest paying shit from the pile.
I'm 22 and have spent the last 2 years as gap years, self-educating, reading the classics and philosophy.
I regret not starting my education yet.
>I see it all perfectly; there are two possible situations - one can either do this or that. My honest opinion and my friendly advice is this: do it or do not do it - you will regret both.
Does a high salary mean much to you personally or are you worried about paying off student loans? I'm from the EU so Uni wasn't the best financial decision I could have made anyways and cost of living and Uni is next to 0 so it's mostly about time for me.
I really wonder whether switching over to something that wouldn't require much brain power would fuck over my self-esteem. I'm not even that smart. Maybe I'm just where I am right now because everyone told me I was.
I don't see how you can't be a writer or interested in literature on the side. There have been many writers in history who worked or studied STEM and wrote literature simultaneously. If you have the talent, time and effort you can do it. I mean I'm a current journalism student and feeling some pangs of regret because of how bad the field is for jobs even if it satisfies my skills and preferences. You may as well learn to love the money and freedom engineering can give and use that freedom to write and read.
>Modern colleges are shit at everything
No, it's just that 100 years ago there were 20 colleges worth going to and today there are still 20 colleges worth going to. I go to uchicago, and we have excellent programs in English, History, Classics, and Philosophy. I even got to learn Vedic Sanskrit.
One of this board's favourite authors - Gene Wolfe - was an engineer by trade until his books started selling. Many great modern authors didn't start as scholars, but instead found their narrative voice from experiencing life through their various professions. Just read in your spare time, studying humanities is of limited use anyway, in this age of information
The main reason is pretty much to live comfortably and not having to worry about paying bills every month. I don't imagine doing anything that will "change the world" with an engineering degree. It's just an efficient way to quickly get a good job, good house, and buy plane tickets to visit home (I am a poor european slav immigrant). Paying off student loans with an engineering degree is pretty much a non-issue since most places offer loan reimbursement + you start out with at least $50,000 a year.
Yeah. But it is very difficult to get into those schools. Thank god Yale and Harvard professors upload their lectures on youtube.
>Thank god Yale and Harvard professors upload their lectures on youtube.
only for select introductory lectures
i mean it's better than nothing, but it really only makes me even more envious of people who actually get to attend those schools, and study a subject at that level for four years.
The unfortunate truth is that peoples' success/failure spirals out of an alpha/omega or winner/loser dynamic that depends on early life experiences.
People learn to succeed and seek the thrill of success, or fail, make excuses, self-pity, and self-soothe with indulgences.
Whatever cycle you were conditioned into, you will always seek the comfort of reenacting... until your death.
I did an English (and Sociology) BA at a top ten public school and it wasn't great. Most people didn't care about the subject outside of school any more than STEM students. Most people I know didn't get good or interesting jobs either. Of course there were exceptions.
I am now in grad school in a STEM field and enjoying it a lot. There is way more rigor - when I finish a project or do well on an exam, it feels like I actually accomplished something. I easily got my English degree by shitting out the exact same papers as high school the night before and was never challenged. That's partially my fault, but also the subject matter is too subjective in moden academics.
Also, a lot of people here are younger and think they'll be fine living on 30k their whole life and renting an apartment, but you start wanting a home and property eventually. Things like decent librarian or teaching jobs are very difficult to find.
Really very, very few people have been able to make a living doing something they otherwise love in all of human history. That isn't a realistic or necessarily good goal. Instead take pride in doing your work well and work on the things you enjoy in your downtime. If you can't do that, you probably have some motivational or depression issues that have nothing to do with whether you studied English or Engineering.
the quote by
is correct. we are none of us happy for long.
but if you're not happy at all it may be because you have a POS attitude and you're too afraid of failure to 'sacrifice' 2-4 years of leisure time.
u wot, m8? Literature degrees don't teach people to write novels, and journalism courses only teach people to write news articles. I guess creative writing courses would help, but that's about it. Seems like you're just looking for an excuse not to write shit desu
OP, you spoiled your chance at getting a step closer to becoming a homo universalis. I follow a biophysics major, electrical engineering minor.
In my spare time I attend raves and read lit. You get to know a lot about life itself (hanging out with people) the concrete rules of the world (STEM), about the subjectivism of human thinking and about all the possible thought processes that occur on this finite planet (lit) Why should you limit yourself to one field of study?
Besides that, STEM should have given you a better sense of what is bullshit and what's not.
Honestly, I made some choices in my life and trying to combine everything, thereby exploring life as much as possible, was the best one I made.
Going from STEM to lit is way easier than the other way around.
>>just finished 1984 and war and peace
>According to his friends, Dumas is something of a free spirit, and as a teenager was rarely seen without his longboard.
>He started on an academic track to earn a degree in psychology, but he was too intellectually omnivorous to stick with a single discipline.
>Dumas himself started a dating service catered toward upscale clientele
I started to study engineering at the best school of engineering in latin america this year. You just exactly described my experiencie with my classmates. Maybe it's somewhat a statistic tendency: people tend to be more and more specialized. It's kinda sad tough.
One year ago I had tought I'd find an enourmous ammount of inteligent people there. Terrible mistake.
ayyy you say that until you have 2 kids and a wife living paycheck to paycheck on a teacher's salary, and your water heater and car both break in the same week and you legit have to worry about having enough food to make it until you next paycheck.
I'm in oilfield engineering and in between a very demanding career and a family I don't think I'll be able to read half the books I want until I retire, but I grew up poor and having money is 100 times better than having extra time.
>i don't like science fiction. I like literature.
I hope the pain never goes away lol
this whole opportunity cost thing between choosing either money/comfort or free time is fucking killing me
i have no idea how to make this work. i'm trying so hard to think of work that would be interesting and meaningful to me so that at least the 40 hours i spend paying my bills isn't completely soul crushing, but it's so late in the game (i'm about to turn 24) that nothing seems feasible.
journalism, academia, politics. these are the kind of things you have to have been working your whole life and investing your entire personality in to succeed in. how do i start now? all i really have is a passing interest, is that really enough to base a career on? plus i barely even want to do any of these things, it's just that it would be way better than manual labor or a desk job.
i'm at the point where i'm thinking i really don't want to see where this is headed. i've had a good run, and i've seen the best of what life has in store for me. the system is designed so that the rest of my adult life will be devoted toward draining me of all my energy and using it for labor, and i'm not going to let it.
Sometimes you just have to take the leap and hope it works out for the best. I have been in oil and gas since I graduated college (got into it via an internship), and I kept telling myself that this would be temporary, that I was "better" than this, that I was saving up for grad school... and then life happened. My GF got pregnant and my priorities changed.
I buckled down and started applying myself and I actually really started to enjoy the field. Like you said, I am a wageslave hoping to live long enough to see my retirement, but I also have a house, am giving my kids better opportunities than I had, and have someone I love to (hopefully) grow old with. I'm well respected in my career, I get to boss around betas all day, and for a job that I can shitpost on 4chan in the afternoon, I make good money. Even though I'm the person that I swore I'd never be 10 years ago, I'm happy with the way things turned out.
Only about 10 of the 100 people read their books, and maybe 5 understand what they are reading.
The mass doesn't read anything or they read Harry Potter, GoT, LoTR which is worse than not reading.
I have to discuss Neo-Classicism with people from other departments because my colleagues haven't started with the Greeks and roamed with the Romans.
I did a double major in math and philosophy.
Enjoyed philosophy far more and would like to go on for a PhD and on to academia, but I have read too many horror stories about employment. Even just counting graduates from top programs, tenure track positions are incredibly difficult to come by, and getting one has more to do with luck and networking than anything else. And then even when you have it, it doesn't pay well.
So I'm resigning myself to a life of MS Excel 9-5 M-F and reading and writing the rest of the time. That is if I can even find a job at all... I've been a NEET since I graduated (a few months ago), sending applications regularly, but I don't have any experience. Entry level financial/data jobs all expect internships and these internships are only open to current students. So I screwed myself by not getting one in college because I was unsure of what I wanted and too busy reading and playing music to care about realistic career paths.
Basically what I'm saying is having a stable career saves you from worrying all the time about expenses and security, lets you eat well and relax, and read and write more efficiently than if your stressing 24/7 about money, sick and unhealthy because of how expensive and time consuming good food and health care are. The chances of "making it" as a writer, artist out whatever are mind-bogglingly small even if you are amazing at it. That doesn't mean don't follow your passion, just don't count on it paying out big bux.
>must be currently enrolled in a four year degree program at an accredited university
Is the standard line I'm afraid. I've been continuously lowering my standards though so maybe I'll end up in IT or something. As long as I can find something that's not good service within the next few months I'll be happy. I can then work on maybe a master's or something and get a new computer and have a clear head to work on my own projects.
>I'm 22 and have spent the last 2 years as gap years, self-educating, reading the classics and philosophy.
what the fuck
you're exactly me.
read a shit tonne during the last 2 years. managed to get a job in rome and stayed there for a year. it was cool and all but I'm getting the feel I'm just postponing the time when I grow up. I'll probably go back to school next year. kind of depressing to know that I'll graduate at 29 at the earliest. at the same time I'm happy I did this shit when I'm young instead of getting a midlife crisis of missed eat pray love shit
I kind of wish I had gone straight for proper wagekek education, I'd be graduating soon and making money, I'm so fed up with being poor
at the same time I know I'd be unhappy and asking myself "is this life?"
the fucking grass is always greener on the other side of the fence
fuck, I just want to travel to and live in all the cool cities in the world but how you do that shit without education
the bohemian artist lifestyle is kind of cool but one year was enough to tell me it's an ideal, empty one at that, and being a 30yo like that is just sad.
I'm not even sure, I had some sort of inkling of doing world-changing research or teaching at a university, but it was mostly me wanking over the fact that working for Exxon is morally wrong.
I can't even say that if I were to do it all again I'd change things (I wouldn't have my kids then afterall), but if I were to win the lottery I'd probably major in History and spend the time to learn Latin and Greek (I read a lot of translated works in my spare time)
Apathetic loser here.
It's a shame really since I am one of the most articulate and creative shitposters on /lit/, but I really don't care enough about fame or wanting people to like me enough to write a novel.
pretty much this
im studying a b.sc and i thought i could talk about interesting concepts and ideas with people. turns out most of aren't even smart, just study non stop all the interesting kids are in arts.
You can get a STEM degree and write.
Sometimes I think you guys don't even read anything.
You all sit back in your chair sipping tea in the most assholish way possible talking about how much you write/read when the only writing and reading you do is on this board.
Read some Emerson man. Read some Thoraeu. Do what the self tells you to do, and if getting a STEM degree was want you wanted to do at the time, then cool.
If you want to write now, then write, but honestly, do you have anything interesting to say? or do you just want to "write"
man the fuck up. medfag here, caught in a dead end job, a 50k dead end job, but dead end nonetheless. Getting a STEM degree didnt interfere with achieving your goals, YOU DID.
Most people who pursued creative studies(architecture excluded) that I know work in retail :(. save money, go to r/financialindependence and pursue your dreams. Fag.
I want to believe it's better in postgraduate courses. You have my support, fellow deceived readers.
I don't live in America so I don't have any debt and didn't had to pay for my degree, and one can make a quite comfortable living out of a low-class salary, here. Without talking about poverty, I come from a worker-class background (my mother was unemployed, my father a electrician) and I would give anything but my shelves. I found instruction more fulfilling and important than almost anything. I guess you're making 90,000$ to 150,000$ each year as an oilfield engineer. Do you really need that much money? I'm not saying you're wrong, my boyfriend makes 50,000$ as a fresh physician and doesn't share at all my worries but kill me if I have to waste my time one more year when I can do a pleasant work that won't put me in poverty anyway.
I want to write about my unique experiences at 4chan. It's where I've spent most of my life and I have a lot of interesting rare memes and pepes that I can weave into a multidimensional and layered narrative. I also BTFO a few people and even saved those post so I can give the reader some interesting points and banter to think about.
duh u dumbfuck
just do et
god forbid you break the mold and go against society by being a writer that didn't go to writing school
ugh srsly my best wishes of you are that this was a rant post because feelz not an actual why can't I write if I rolled the wrong class
>people pretending that it's somehow too late to start writing when most writers are old as fuck and never made a career of it in their youths
Actually, never mind; if you're this stupid, you were doomed anyway.
I did (unironically) write a 20 page short story about a NEET and had several people in the class tell me that it was their favorite, so maybe I should do that. It'll be shit, but it's still a book and I can always fix it.
Thanks for the idea.
but teaching and english would let you become a teacher, where you could live modestly, at least work in an area you have interest in and then still have like, 3 months off a year to pursue your memedremes
I actually grew to like my wageslave career. I put up with a lot of bullshit, but I'd get very bored if I was working a job where I wasn't challenged. Ideally I'd prefer to read books and watch movies all day every day but my job provides intellectual stimulation and gives me a lot of self-satisfaction. The money is just a bonus I guess, and once you make over 6 figures it's very hard to go back.
I see college as something practical. I went to college to learn technical skills and that's why i studied electrical engineering.
Most of my classes were pretty awesome. I learned a lot and i also had free time to compose music, write and read.
For me there was no use to go to college for any other deegre. I didn`t need anything too technical that i couldn`t learn by myself to make art. All i needed was my owns experiences, thoughts, emotions and literary baggage. And i think thats one reason why there are so many artists, and almost none scientist or engineer, that didn`t have any formal education. There are even a lot of architectures that never went to college, and architecture is blend of engineering/art.
Sometimes when i read something that my friends who studied letters or journalism wrote, i get really depressed. It`s really bad, cliche and they dont seem to have done anything with their lifes. They didnt learn how to work hard, they wasted a lot of time reading what they were told to read, thinking and criticizing how they were told to do. And eventhough i know there are many people who benefit from this kind of education, i feel that the true artist, the talented one, should forge his own path, experiencing his life outside of academia.
Excuse me for any grammar mistake. I am japanese and this is my first post in english.