>>11146456 0080 is not a huge event and it isn't pretending to be so, while Unicorn is trying to be a huge world-changing event that ultimately doesn't change a damn thing and has its moral killed as a result.
>>11146472 F91 was meant to be some sort of long-term continuation of UC that fell apart behind the scenes and was nothing more than a short theatrical movie, V was nice but happened before Tomino realized alternate universes were a thing and could be applied to the Gundam franchise with minimum consequences. Victory easily could have been a AU with the show still being 99% the same.
>>11146463 This is a legitimate point. Pre-Unicorn we see four major wars over the course of twenty years. Post-Unicorn we see three major wars over the course of sixty years. The situation got better. War didn't completely vanish, sure, but on the whole the world was a more peaceful place.
>>11146581 >and by association zeon vs the federation no it didnt, the movie was always marketed as final battle between Char and Amuro, nothing more. the actual plot did nothing to resolve the issue of spacenoid independence or how to bring peace to the world, it was just something that just happened between CCA and F91.
>>11146629 Not really, no. It takes place over a short period of time and doesn't really spread out beyond Side 4. Zanscare seemed to be the only ones who achieved planetfall, though the Jovians came close.
>>11146478 >>11146486 Victory and f91 share just as many themes, technological similarities and story elements with early UC as something like Unicorn. The difference is they aren't just jamming down blatant cameo after blatant cameo as far down your throat as they can so they can make sure the chuuni's see Unicorn as a 'sequel' by their narrow definition of the word. (And of course so they can sell extra kits to nostalgiafags)
>>11147369 >>buy the cool mass destruction weapons by bandai! I fucking wish they'd let me! >HGUC Zaku Kai only came out a few years ago >only 1/100 option is recasts of B-Club conversion kit >same deal with Gelgoog Jaeger >Kaempfer MG is one of the worst
>>11146641 >Gryps Conflict, and Neo Zeon Wars were absolute bloodbaths
Not really. They were fought between tiny factions that had ships in the dozens, whereas the OYW had ships in the hundreds. Even if you include some massacres like the Titans gassing a colony or Dublin being destroyed it's probably more comparable to the genocide of the Frontier colony in F91. Small beans compared to the OYW
What's a deep message in your opinion out of interest? Cause every message is pretty superficial when you know it and most every message a show can give is something anyone beyond the age of 15 or so is going to have seen in something or other. Genuinely curious what you think is a deep message here.
>>11148558 >Char clone >has an opposite personality like a Puru I'm now imagining a retard-Char running around shouting CHAR CHAR CHAR
>>11148525 G-Reko backstory: very very late UC has space elevators collapsing (see also: Turn A for allusions to this) that put the earth into a similar situation seen in X. Without any food people are reduced to cannibalism apparently I hope Tomino hasn't become friends with Urobochi or something
Gundam was not all about Gunpla until 1993 when Bandai bought Sunrise. The Gunpla is actually what financed the show after the huge flop in 1979. These shows need to sell to justify for the money producers spent on it. But they doesn't exist just for that.
>>11148635 I know it, but the kid is basically a self-insert for the average modeller (he goes out on the battlefield to know more about weapons, he likes to collect stuff, he starts "opinion wars" about GMs and Zakus), then you see him dropping this attitude after the Bernie's death and it is like the anime is telling you that his attitude was, not only childish, but something to be ashamed (because yeah, a Gundam is not cool anymore if it makes hamburgers from you BFF). then you see Bandai dropping ~10 plamos of units that had 2 minutes top of screentime from a 6 episode long series. Honestly, I think I can almost touch the hypocrisy of this anime and its "message" and I feel a bit insulted.
>>11148668 Are you sure it's not just that you get really really angry whenever something feels smarter than you and then you start lashing out at it for daring to not intentionally be as retarded as you want?
>>11148668 the contrast between thinking mechs are cool and the horrors of war was something done since the beginning by Tomino. It wasn't just 0080, 0080 just rehashes the same theme. Tomino's been doing that message since Zambot. We the viewer as mecha fans dream of being a pilot and would embrace the opportunity, but as Kappei, Amuro, Kamille etc. showed, there are consequences to piloting a very cool mecha. You could end up traumatized after saving the world with no tangible award. (like fame and fortune). but the mechs are cool, that's part of the main appeal. just like Tomcats are cool but actually flying them is risky and dangerous.
>>11148668 >>11148881 and behind the scenes Tomino has always butted heads with executives and sponsors that wanted more emphasis on the plamo. He never let that get in the way of telling a story. But the mechs are cool so they need proper screen time. It won't feel like an epic war of attrition if you don't have constant battles every episode.
>>11149056 Nothing, this thread is retarded. Mineva was trying to usher in the new century without the plague of Zeon and the curse of the Box.
Anyone that thinks she was trying to put an end to war is an idiot. She's good-intentioned, but not naive.
Besides, the Crossbone conflict, in spite of it going on for a full five years, was so uneventful that the Federation literally sat it out and let it work itself out for the ENTIRE "war." I think in the grand scheme of things, about four or five colonies total were affected. The Crossbone Vanguard was a fucking joke.
>>11148668 You think 0080 was supposed to be some kind of morality piece, and not just a character based story? It's about how the characters develop, not sitting around saying how war is something to never respect or be interested in. Al wasn't a military otaku who ended the series by burning all his display pieces, he just didn't understand what war was.
The main thing people get wrong is this part. The same people who don't realize military museums sell tank kits and sometimes have cockpit sitting photo sessions. You don't have to hate everything about war just cause you know what it is. Tanks are still cool.
Besides, if it wanted to make war look so bad, it wouldn't have such awesome fight animation. I still love watching the fights even if I know how sad they are at the same time. Doesn't this mentality mean you also have to hate every military series not paced like Jarhead?
>>11149024 Maybe I missed that. It would make sense considering the whole "I'm a vessel of the people's wishes" stuff.
I took as Frontal was a clone of Char, with his memories, but is aware he isn't actually Char, just a copy. Frontal isn't possessed by Char's consciousness, but influenced by Char's memories and personality implanted in the cloning process. Frontal's consciousness is then sent to the same plain where Char's is as a result of Banagher's will in super saiyin newtype mode.
>>11147369 0080 is one of the most down to earth gundams and basically the only one where the characters talk like real people.
Unicorn's characters CONSTANTLY go on long philosophical tangents about life, the universe an everything. It's also basically sets itself up to be the ultimate conclusion to the Zeon/Federation conflict and the great explanation for everything early-UC. THAT'S pretension.
>>11146478 F91 and victory show the slow decay of the Federation after being weakened by contant wars and the result of the autonomy the colonies always wanted so bad: A bunch of small warring states and Zeon wannabes.
So wait, does G-Reco take place in the same timeline as UC? I know it's not "in" the Universal Century, but takes place in the era "after" it. So that means they just switched to a new calendar and it's still the same universe?
>>11150594 Yes, but it sounds like it's so far ahead that any of the UC series basically wont matter and it might as well be a clean slate.
The Federation, for example don't even exist anymore. I think they just go with the "this is a continuation of the UC universe" pretense as a ploy to get UCfags to be more interested in it. Otherwise it sounds like it could be an AU no problem.
>>11150633 [OT] There are interviews about why Rebellion was even made to begin with and IIRC Urobochi was just told to write it like that to leave an opening for a possible "more Madoka" in the future. [/OT]
>>11150648 >that's what SHAFT wants you to believe. Well, it is SHAFT that pays Urobochi, I don't see why they would let Urobochi do whatever he wants instead of telling him what to do, and I see nothing wrong with admitting plain and simple that they want to milk the title.
>>11150687 Not having Ocean Group doing the dub was unfortunate. Honestly, I can't stand Unicorn's dub. Everyone sounds so flat, except for Angelo. And whose bright idea was it for Steve Staley to be a third Gundam protag?
Unicorn is fine. All that happened was a few skirmishes involving terrorists and a propaganda speech.
There was no colony drop or mass rise of another Zeon force. The princess of Zeon said some pretty things on television and no one cared.
0083 is a far bigger offender of pretending to be important but being completely irrelevant. They try to explain how the Titans came to be but completely fail to present any sort of logical sequence of events topped off by a colony drop that makes it impossible for 0083 to be canon since in Zeta, ZZ, and CCA no map of Earth shows any kind of colony drop damage in North America.
>>11150995 Gato was just a retarded zealot who could barely be considered any better than a villain of the week. Everything in 0083 was Jamitov pulling the strings.
The problem with Full Frontal is his pseudo-supernatural association with Char.
Full Frontal is just a politician looking to flip the economic balance and turn the colonies into a new Federation while also being a capable pilot. In essence he's the same kind of character as the other political leaders of radical reformation organizations in UC.
Unicorn's problem has always been execution. 0083s problem is that everything about it is retarded and the most interesting parts of the story happen so far off screen that the main story is pointless.
>>11150608 Ironically, this is exactly what Banagher was doing the whole time with Mineva, and people still give him shit.
The one time he tried UNDERSTANDING, it backfired horribly, and he never tried again after that.
This is why I think /m/ is like a special needs child whenever they bitch about UNDERSTANDING in Unicorn; a big theme in Unicorn is that UNDERSTANDING is overrated and you can't rely on it to stop conflict. No one person or group can stop conflict, it's simply not something you can predict or stop. The only thing you can do as an individual is be the best person you can possibly be and trust the potential of other people to do the same. Be an example for others and be there to help those you care about. It's just a more optimistic take on the theme of human nature in Gundam, as opposed to the usual bleak one.
Long story short, Unicorn's just telling you to stop being such goddamn misanthropes.
>>11147369 >Pretentious garbage that should have never been animated. Listen, pal. Trolling is supposed to be subtle. ie. don't attack a legitimately good show, don't reduce your arguments to catchphrases, and please, don't use that goddamn fucking "P word".
>>11147453 >notice how the world has had wars since the last World War which was supposed to be the last great conflict in human history It was, in a sense. One huge war between superpowers kills more people than several smaller ones. The statistics prove it: the 20th century (especially the second half) is the most peaceful period in recorded history.
>>11148668 >and it is like the anime is telling you that his attitude was, not only childish, but something to be ashamed What? Did you watch Bernie's farewell video or not? The message is that you shouldn't be holding on to hate.
>I think I can almost touch the hypocrisy of this anime and its "message" and I feel a bit insulted. It's not hypocrisy when you separate the storytelling interests from the corporate ones. War In The Pocket is only the most contrasting example in Gundam, but there are many others elsewhere.
>>11148597 >while spamming gunplas kits pisses me off a little bit. >then you see Bandai dropping ~10 plamos of units that had 2 minutes top of screentime from a 6 episode long series. It's a neccesary evil in the case of anime. See >>11148889: Gundam would've been cancelled if Tomino hadn't inserted idiotic garbage like the G-Armor to please the sponsors. And this "pure art/corporate garbage" is a false equivalence.
>and the fact 0080 tries so hard to be "deep" I don't see where it's the "trying hard to be deep". I'd argue that is the case in Unicorn or SEED. 0080 is very straightforward and not explicitally preachy until the very end.
>>11155871 But anon, the internet told me that anybody with the slightest bit of emotional unbalance or strangeness to their character is autistic! The internet are trained psychologists, they know what they're talking about.
>>11155799 Personally, I think Katejina's obsession with Uso sort of reflects Asperger's Syndrome. Her home conditions in Prague might have been part of it but I assume she suffered trauma from being taken from her only friend (one which she's protective over), then from being dragged off the Earth.
Her line to him at the final battle, where she asks if after all that had happened he would take her anyway, kind of showed how all of the distance she'd spent from Uso continued to build this convoluted image of him. She begs for her own death because of "the perfect storm" as you put it.
And certainly don't forget that the Angel Halo was clearly fucking with her brain by the end of the series.
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