None. Frankly, humanity doesn't deserve the air it breathes. Charity and good actions only happens because people are selfish - they didn't help the guy in pic because they wanted, but because it would be unpleasant to see him getting splattered.
>>11190249 Even then, it's beacause of selfish desires. Even the most pious and unselfish ones are driven by the need to impress a divinity with good actions and seek their blessing/acceptance (regardless of religion, it always work like that) or just to make themselves feel better. That is selfish, despite of the resulting "positive" outcome.
>>11190253 >>11190268 Mind you, I'm saying this as someone who stood up and cheered for the Jegans at the end of CCA. It was fucking awesome. Just like GGG Final or Gunbuster. But it's ficton, that's why we like it. Real life got some serious shit to deal with.
>Even the most pious and unselfish ones are driven by the need to impress a divinity with good actions and seek their blessing/acceptance (regardless of religion, it always work like that) or just to make themselves feel better.
Every single one.
Every SINGLE one of the untold number of pious, kind and unselfish on this planet, they are all driven by the desire to 'impress a divinity' or self-indulgence.
Yeah, okay. I suppose your narrow-mindedness eludes you. And then you'll respond with some riposte about how you've accepted humanity's true nature or some bullshit like that. Just because some humans are pricks doesn't mean there are no good souls, edgelord.
>>11190273 It's actually true. Especially in places like fucking Perth where the train lines are fucking impossibly slow. I mean I'm in Sydney and 14 minutes for a train is fucking stupid compared to places like HK.
>>11190286 >Every SINGLE one of the untold number of pious, kind and unselfish on this planet, they are all driven by the desire to 'impress a divinity' or self-indulgence.
Well... yes. Even if they do it because it's the right thing to do, they feel like it. After all, retroactively everything people do at some point is motivated by selfish desires.
Say you're forced to kill someone. There's a choice to not do it, but you'll be killed. If you want to live, you'll choose that. If not, you'll die but but feeling accomplished by not breaking his values. Every single action we take is, in a sense, attending a selfish demand. Complete abnegation is a falacy.
If you overanalyze it, everything is motivated by a selfish desire. Even acts of great courage or sacrifice are motivated because you feel better that you did it, or because otherwise you'd feel like shit.
But you know what?
Fuck this kind of edgelord thinking.
What matters is that you intended to do good, and that your actions ended up doing good. The motivation is meaningless. A heroic act is no less heroic if done for selfish reasons.
>>11191608 That's the point of the discussion. You can't have high hopes for humanity when everything we do is just for the sake of individual indulgence. It's nice to think justice and hard work will prevail, but mankind is weak, and given the proper condtions will always, ALWAYS, resort to treachery or violence to meet its ends. Without the continuous and excruciating exercise of Law, humanity will always tend to chaos, our very own myth of Sisyphus. It's a silly example, but consider a fallen over beer truck. A lot of people, ordinary citizens, who'd never think about stealing, are probably getting there to grab a few bottles. At the slightest absence of law, the human nature regress to animal stages. As much as we praise reason, humanity is imperfect, and at some point all the development will be lost because the disruption forces are far stronger than order. That's something we must rely on fiction to accomplish or even glimpse.
For just feel-good shows, Patlabor and Dai-Guard will make you more optimistic about people.
It's hard to feel too bad about humanity after watching LoGH, though, at least for me. A true testament to the power of the human imagination, I thought it was. If people can make a story like that, they can't be all bad.
I can't get my faith in humanity restored by a fucking chinese cartoon made by people paid like waiters working 16 hours a day. That said there is no reason to have "faith", humans are all different there's no sense in comparing a chinese from the Sichuan region to a black man from Mozambique, we can only try to help the people we know and love and not be too much of a cunt to others.
Also education plays a huge part in being a "good" person, someone from Kenya might think it's right to kill albinos and eat their corpses because it's tradition there, but then again he will still love his mother and relatives. Generally speaking people living in civilized countries are decent though, my cousin is bound on a wheelchair and people always interrupt what they're doing to help him.
>>11191711 Not actually true. That whole concept of "humans revert to loners" thing is absolutely smashed down by the fact were were social creatures in tribes. We've always stuck in big social groups that supported each other. They even found a skeleton of an old man who'd had terrible leg injuries that happened when he was young, since the bones had healed around the damage.
That meant his tribe would've had to have supported him to reach his age.
>>11192451 >My favorite part is, when someone says "All people are like this", all they are really saying is "I'm like this". No one else is conceding, it's just you. >Like, congratulations, you're an asshole and you assumed everyone else was. I've helped and been helped for no reason at all.
This is not my blog, but I must say I do my share of charity. My sis is a psychologist and we help at a poor children's NGO. I tell you, the stuff we deal with there really makes you doubt that mankind has any value. I do help, because it's the fucking right thing to do, and I feel useful, but at the same time it's and endless ordeal. You can live meaningfully, but overall humanity has not such concern for the others' lives.
>>11192488 >We've always stuck in big social groups that supported each other.
For the sole purpose of improving the individual's survival rate. It all resumes to save our asses in the end.
Humanity has evolved to be fundamentally altruistic. For most of us, helping other people gives us warm and fuzzy feelings, and watching others suffer makes us feel sick to the stomach.
So we help other people and prevent their suffering whenever we can.
That's just how things are, and that's fine. It's a beautiful way to live.
I'm not sure what the edgelords hanging around want. Do you wish for doing good to cause the charitable intense pain, so they can say they do it for honest and pure altruism deriving no pleasure from selflessness? I think that's a very quick way for humanity's social instincts to break down and turn us all into Eva characters at their lowest and most wretched.
And you know what? There are people who will give you the shirts off their back. They value that warm and fuzzy feeling inside them over avoiding the physical cold. There are those that value not seeing someone they care for die over their own continued survival. I think that's true altruism, not because being selfless gives them anything, but because being selfish would break them.
>>11190744 except things don't get better for him at any point. they only get progressively worse, shinji has to tell himself that things are okay, that people are good instead of being shown that their is hope for people. its like stockholm syndrome from your own life
>>11191711 I want to take issue, not on the grounds humans are not selfish, but with the assumption that begets a negative outcome.
Game theory makes the same assumptions you do and is more or less a calculus of how to produce positive outcomes by understanding the selfish desires on both sides. Look into it, you'd probably like it if you can stomach all dat math.
>>11194018 >being selfish would break them That's a pretty interesting way to define it. In the end it's not so much that Altruists actually care about the individual but that their suffering is just too unsightly for them to bear.
>>11194018 >Humanity has evolved to be fundamentally altruistic. For most of us, helping other people gives us warm and fuzzy feelings, and watching others suffer makes us feel sick to the stomach. >So we help other people and prevent their suffering whenever we can. >That's just how things are, and that's fine. It's a beautiful way to live.
This may be reflecting your own experience, or the Western civilization pattern, but it isn't true at all for mankind as a whole phenomenon. Do you think child rapists or drug dealers really care about preventing other's suffering?
Consider the ISIS example. They're getting support from the Iraqui suni population. Among them, people who'd never think about hitting a neighbour are now helping to behead others. Unfortunately, when it comes to defining societal roles, what matters is not the similarities that bring us together, but the differences. The example in OP is clear - they're helping the guy because there's empathy - be it because he was an Australian or just someone witing for the train as they were. Would they stop and help a hopeless, starving hobo laying on the street? Hardly. Peple just pass by beacuse it's not "one of them". The differences are way stronger than the bonds for humanity, and it reflects on how we behave. A decent, just, altrusitic behavior is possible, but only under a strict (and fragile) set of conditions. The rule for mankind, as long as history goes, is violence and selfishness.
>>11194213 Eh, I've got a Pol Sci masters at Security and Defense. I've got enough experience with these models. And most of the time, the negative outcome is the most likely since a rational actor is a weberian ideal Type. Don't really like it that much.
Eh, first thing that happened in the new US democracy in Iraq was that people re-shuffled the neighbourhoods along ethnic and religious lines. And with "Re-shuffle" I mean they grabbed somebody, drilled holes in his or her head and poured acid into their skulls. Then they dropped the body in a place for everyone to see. Beheadings and mass shootings are a step towards a less defunct polity. They might even be able to tone it down to the level of Saudi Arabia in the short run and then nothing's stopping them from replacing Saudi Arabia as the US's other relieable ally in the middle east.
>>11195201 >For most of us >most of us >most There are always special cases of people who are intensely fucked in the head, and there has been no society that has condoned killing, stealing, rape, and other generally anti-social behaviour. We go harder on rape in the developed world than the developing or historical, yes, but it has never been "okay" except as a weapon of war (tacitly acknowledging it as an awful thing you don't do to your "in" group.)
Let's not ignore the fact that the US, UN, Iraq, Iran, and even Al-fucking-Qaeda think ISIS are a bunch of shits that don't deserve to live.
Humanity simply wouldn't have survived without evolving social behaviour and structures as the norm.
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