>>11949294 It bothers me when people say that Okawara can't make good designs anymore.
Look, there's only so many RX-78-2-based Gundams you can churn out. His non-Gundam designs look as good as ever. I think Okawara's biggest strength lies in things that don't have full humanoid proportions, like the Vifam mecha and Votom's Scopedogs and other assorted ATs.
His lineart also sucks, his stuff always looks better when drawn by pretty much anybody but him. He does some nice watercolours though.
He's certainly not the best, indeed he's nowhere near the best. However, he is a GOOD mecha designer. And, it's worth mentioning he was the first mecha designer.
Okawara's problem is that he's a bad draftsman; his designs invariably look better when drawn or animated by other people.
Pic related: a lovely CG rendition of what is, unbelievably enough, an Okawara design.
He's an excellent gimmick-creator. (For example, the Buster Gundam's two guns on their support arms that can work in tandem, or connected in two different ways.) This means he's great for designing things that are made into toys and model kits.
I don't think he has a ton of experience with actual mechanical/engineering drawings, and he falls short on "true" machinelike detail. Those articulated arms that support the Buster Gundam's weapons? Minimally detailed -- just rectangles. An afterthought. Katoki, Izubuchi, Miyatake, Akutsu, and virtually any other mecha designer would have actually put at least some modicum of thought and detail into those things.
This this thisthis this Okawara is...like Sunrise. Utterly mediocre. He is just as likely to crap out a shitter as he is to pop out a masterpiece He is the standard by which other mech designers are measured Not perfect, not shit. Right in the middle.
Okawara is the father of modern mecha and defined the 'real robot' genre and continues to be the standard by which 'real robots' are measured. His proportions and perspective in line art are terrible however he's often able to get across a terrific sense of dynamism and motion in his paintings. He got to the top because he's not only incredibly prolific but also very effective at visualizing concepts that can be executed by others such as animators and toy-makers. He's the first and greatest 'real robot' concept artist that ever lived. The 'real robot' genre as we recognize it today wouldn't exist without the work of Okawara. Yes he is a terrible line artist but he doesn't have to be a great line artist to perform his primary job of visual conceptualization.
>>11949270 His illustration sucks, but you can't design the thought-out transforming mechanism of the Zeta Gundam and be the worst mecha designer. The anime dumbs it down, but how it transforms is well thought-out.
>>11951426 I can't bring myself to like Kawamori's super robots. He always draws them with the same proportions, tiny torsos, regular legs and oragutan arms. Kawamori Dangaioh is just as bad as Aquarion and the Nirvash when it comes to that, but you have Obari draw it and suddenly it's one of my favourite mecha designs ever.
There's no one in the business who draws better aircraft though.
>>11949270 >>11949276 /m/ is full of hipsters who don't like anything that is popularly accepted. That why they shit on Okawara, and Katoki, but jerk themselves raw over Nagano's designs that are either emaciated and overly liney, or bulbous tumor ridden monsters.
>>11953776 But Katoki does Okawara fixes only because Bandai asks him too. He has to fix his designs because of his linearts (also that pic is an unfair comparison, since that's Katoki's rx-78-2, not the fixed one)
Katoki can also do his own designs, and damn they're awesome: >Sentinel >Stardust >Victory >Endless Waltz >Unicorn >SRW
>>11954363 No. As an artist who wants to get into concepting one day, I totally get what he means. Katoki loves details. He adores them. He crams as many of them in as he can at times. However, more =/= better. When you go shitcrazy with details, you tend to loose any distinguishing features in the mess.
All of Katoki's quirk you hate like Long legs and small torso, are there to stabilize the plamo standing. Also his designs have great silhouttes. Even Kotobukiya with their awful plamo technology can't mess up kits made from Katoki designs
Also he wouldnt be the chief engineer in Bandai Plamo Dept if he cant design shit for toys.
Pretty much every mecha designer under the sun worked on the Zeta Gundam. Okawara, Nagano, Fujita... I can tell you right now that Okawara's transformation ideas are not the final ones used. Elements, perhaps, but overall? No. Hell no.
>>11950761 Eh, I think Katoki usually oversimplifies his designs and his proportions are too uniform. Everything looks built off the same frame. I love the Crossbone Gundam, but I have to admit it's a fairly plain design riding on the gimmicks from the F91.
>>11956997 >>11956878 Since we're going for the humanoid shape, we can't mess with the proportions too much. The small torso makes sense, you reduce the weight there by making the torso smaller, it shifts the center of mass down, thus making the plamo more stable. Then, instead of making the legs long, you keep em more or less proportional, or even slightly shorter, now that's a stable design.
Unless the legs are insect-like legs, long legs that bends to spread out the weight across a larger area while keeping the body low.
>>11956971 >Eh, I think Katoki usually oversimplifies his designs
o_0 You're insane.
>and his proportions are too uniform.
This was true before he worked on G-Gundam. Katoki definitely learned some tricks for working with Okawara, including using different proportions. Everything looks built off the same frame.
>I love the Crossbone Gundam, but I have to admit it's a fairly plain design riding on the gimmicks from the F91.
It is a muted by highly effective design. As for "riding on the gimmicks from the F91"... this is a kooky statement. Other than the opening face it really doesn't use any of the F91's gimmicks, and any visual similarities to the F91 are there for a reason -- the Crossbone is the F97. It's descended from the F91!
Katoki is a godlike designer, haters have no brains. (He does sometimes make the legs a bit too long though.)
Everyone knows Katoki COULD be a good designers. Even /m/ enjoyed his Wing grunts, V gundam and Sentinel designs in general. It's the fact that his recent stuff that shows next to no effort other than slapping on more panels, LEGS and how his fans buy them up like the best thing since slice bread that make people hate him. It's really his shitty fans' fault.
>>11958482 So? There are plenty of kits that have the ver Ka moniker that were the first MG's of their designs. Even 2.0 MG's don't need to have Katoki's name on them, like the Strike RM. They could have just called it the Hi-Nu Lineart Version or something.
>>11957720 >Everyone knows Katoki COULD be a good designers. Even /m/ enjoyed his Wing grunts, V gundam and Sentinel designs in general. It's the fact that his recent stuff that shows next to no effort other than slapping on more panels, LEGS and how his fans buy them up like the best thing since slice bread that make people hate him. It's really his shitty fans' fault.
You are just silly. He is a great designer; one of the best. Adding more panels = detailing up existing designs. He's been tasked with revisiting old designs a lot. You think the RX-93 v.KA sucks or something? Are you bonkers? Yes, he makes legs a bit too long sometimes, I agree. But come on, you really think that the ReZel, Kshatriya, Jesta, Geara-Zulu, WildWurger, R-1/2/3, etc etc etc are bad. You are... you... you are just silly.
>>11957863 >Okawara basically popularized the "real robot" aesthetic because he was the first to do it.
Considering that Tomino is the one who came up with the idea for the Real Robot subgenre, and that Yas was really the guy who gave us the Zaku's signature look, I wouldn't actually credit Okawara with that quite as much as you're doing. He's still a huge pioneer though.
You're confused. You think people will buy a model kit JUST because Katoki's name is on it? If I made a new MG of, say, the Gundam MkII, but made it crappy, with poor posability and inaccurate colors and missing some parts, but put Katoki's name on it, it would sell well?
The Hi-Nu had "Ver.KA" on it because Katoki changed the Hi-Nu from what Izubuchi had most recently given us (the crappy first MG Hi-Nu). Figure it out, you dolt.
>>11957869 >Even the recent Hi-Nu ver Ka should have never been called such since it's exactly the same as Izubuchi's lineart. >>11958536 >They could have just called it the Hi-Nu Lineart Version or something. >But Katoki's name sells, so....
Sigh... I thought we already settled this /m/
It has the Ver Ka label because Bandai gives him total freedom in his design of the kit. That's why the Nu had psychoframe, that's why the Hi-Nu stayed true to Izubuchi's original design, and that's why he designed the FIRST master grade of the RX-78-2 and then made another under his label
It's Bandai's way of saying "do whatever the fuck you want, we trust you" But that kinda backfired when Izubuchi did it...
>>11958585 It's funny that you say that because most old-school Gundam fans think Katoki literally raped the Nu and Sazabi with his "clusterfuckish overgimmicked" reinterpretation.
As for the old Hi-Nu MG, it wasn't bad by any means, just different. You can't compare it with the ver Ka because it's a very different design altogether.
>>11959295 >It has the Ver Ka label because Bandai gives him total freedom in his design of the kit. That's why the Nu had psychoframe, that's why the Hi-Nu stayed true to Izubuchi's original design, and that's why he designed the FIRST master grade of the RX-78-2 and then made another under his label
You seem a bit confused. Katoki was in charge of the lineart and early conceptual designs of both the HGUC and MG lines. He didn't outright design the kits like he did with ver Ka's. Also, ver ka was a new label at the time, and Katoki's personal reinterpretation of the RX-78-2 using better technology.
>It's Bandai's way of saying "do whatever the fuck you want, we trust you" But that kinda backfired when Izubuchi did it...
I sincerely doubt Bandai DIDN'T tell Katoki to make it look like Izubuchi's design. They knew that many people complained about the older Hi-Nu for not looking like the lineart. Why do you think there are so many Hi-Nu resin kits out there? The point is, like with the Turn A, Katoki designed the kit to look like the original lineart. It is not his personal reinterpretation like the rest of the Ver Ka's. That's like me asking someone to re-draw the Mona-Lisa to look exactly like the original, but sell it under their name instead of Da Vinci's.
Also, Izubuchi's only involvement with the old MG Hi-Nu was the lineart. He's not a mechanical engineer or drafter like Katoki or BEE-Craft.
>>11959409 >You seem a bit confused. Katoki was in charge of the lineart and early conceptual designs of both the HGUC and MG lines. He didn't outright design the kits like he did with ver Ka's.
Sorry, I meant that he is completely free to do the conceptual design of the kit. No mecha designer is involved in the actual development of the kit.
>and Katoki's personal reinterpretation of the RX-78-2 using better technology
That's why is has its label, because it's his own redesign, not just a fix like the old MG
>I sincerely doubt Bandai DIDN'T tell Katoki to make it look like Izubuchi's design. >many people complained about the older Hi-Nu for not looking like the lineart.
And one of those is Katoki himself. He wanted to make it closer to the original design as much as Bandai, that's why they gave the design to him
>like with the Turn A, Katoki designed the kit to look like the original lineart. It is not his personal reinterpretation like the rest of the Ver Ka's. That's like me asking someone to re-draw the Mona-Lisa to look exactly like the original, but sell it under their name instead of Da Vinci's.
But only because that was his work, he wasn't involved in anything other than adapting it's proportions. Think it like a restoration of an old painting. He actually made his own rendition of the Turn A (not included into his MG line)
>Also, Izubuchi's only involvement with the old MG Hi-Nu was the lineart.
It's the same involvement Katoki gets with its label, that's why Bandai accepted the retcon.
ITT: >Okawara VS Katoki Both are overrated and suck. >Obari Autistic scab that works dirt cheap and pumps out crayon drawings. >Teraoka Guy who does designs for a lot of the newer mecha shows. All of them shit.
Unicorn designs are average at best. Over-detailed yet uninspired and sometimes even non-sensical. The sliding armor gimick didn't save the first MG Unicorn from being a generally poor kit with next to no articulation. Katoki even in his own words "forgot" to put in the head vulcans in the novel version and were only added back in the OVA model. That's how much Katoki cares for the Unicorn designs.
>>11959606 Actually I rather enjoy Teraoka's work. It's more like the SHOWS he does designs for are shit. Anybody who did work on A/Z and VVV did what they could for that paycheck, but I still feel bad that they had to sign on to those things.
>Over-detailed yet uninspired and sometimes even non-sensical.
Seriously, you're retarded.
>The sliding armor gimick didn't save the first MG Unicorn from being a generally poor kit with next to no articulation. Katoki even in his own words "forgot" to put in the head vulcans in the novel version and were only added back in the OVA model. That's how much Katoki cares for the Unicorn designs.
Have you ever made a mistake? Yes? Then shut your fetal-alchohol-syndrome-having face.
>>11949406 Yep, the lines flow much better and the crotchpit doesn't look tacked-on like it does in the official art. As drawn the proportions are a little boxy but that's some something that's common fixed in the translation from his concept art.
THIS. I mean, for fuck's sake, a mecha designer's job is to make things that look cool and can be turned into kits/toys. Anyone who thinks a mecha designer isn't concerned with such things is just talking out their butt. Or talking about Nagano, though even in that case I'm not wholly convinced.
You want mecha designers who were NOT thinking about toy creation when they made their mecha? Look at Marvel's artists in the 60s and 70s. The original Iron Man and the Sentinels and such were definitely, definitely not made with toy design in mind.
>>11961376 >THIS. I mean, for fuck's sake, a mecha designer's job is to make things that look cool and can be turned into kits/toys.
Tell that to Kawamori. Tell that to Izubuchi. Tell that to Kobayashi. Tell that to Fujita. Tell that to Shinkawa. Tell that to Fujioka. Tell that to Koyama. Tell that to Ni0. Tell that ESPECIALLY to Nagano.
And those are only the less obscure designers.
A mecha designer's job isn't to make something that could have easily been turned into a toy, it's something that can be ANIMATED without too much difficulty. Most 80's mecha shows haven't even had decent or accurate onscreen toy or model representations (outside of Garage Kits) until less than a decade ago, like Dunbine. If it's not animated and for some manga or LN, they make it even more complex. Whether or not any of those can be made as toys depends on how much fans like the design or how physically possible it is to render in 3D form. And only recently has toy technology caught up with some ancient 80's designs.
Obari doesn't give a fuck about toys. He's an animator first and foremost. The Dragonar designs have existed for a long time now, and it speaks volumes that only NOW we actually get decent onscreen representations.
>>11962610 Every toy company was due to the tech at the time. There wasn't a single "accurate" representation of the lineart for any design. A perfect transformation model for the Zeta Gundam didn't exist until a decade after the anime ended.
Mecha designers don't design things with toys in mind. The only thing they can do is make a design look gimmicky, colorful, and easy to animate. This is meant to appeal to the kids watching it so that they like the character enough to want to buy the toy of it, no matter how ugly or inaccurate it is. Which doesn't necessarily mean said design will translate well to toy form.
>>11963448 >implying Origin's MS will be hand drawn
I never implied that in any way. CG animation is still animation. And have you looked at The Origin's previews? The Zaku and the Guntank look exactly like those Okawara drawings. No Katoki touches to be seen.
Fact: Okawara's work on the original MS Gundam series was a defining moment for mecha -- his engineering approach was a huge departure from most of the fanciful giant robot designs that came before. He set a new standard that was (and remains) very influential...and Bandai owes much of their fortune to his making mecha TRULY mechanical. He did all the hard groundwork for the awesome eye-candy that has followed.
Even though it was Dougram (followed by Xabungle, then Macross, and then Votoms) that really cemented the Real Robot style... Yes, Gundam was definitely the transition point. And they were all Okawara anyway, so hey.
Except they did because macross was successful and transformable toys was already a thing in the 80s, despite having poor quality due to technology. Gunpla actually saved Gundam from its poor rating. Plain zaku was a popular design, despite having no actual character ties becuase of its militaristic design, which appeals to nerds of that era who were usually into military models. The show got a chance because the toys did well. Your newfaggotry is showing, Retard.
Actually I believe it was a three-way collab between Tomino, Okawara, and Yas if I recall; though Yas did at least help out with at least one of 0079's MS in some way. I heard he contributed to the Dom's final design by giving it the bulk it's known for(the original Okawara lineart looked pretty thin). And going into late UC, he was the F91's original designer.
>>11969378 >macross was successful and transformable toys was already a thing in the 80s >despite having poor quality due to technology.
Way to backpedal. Macross may have been one of the first to start the transformation craze, but the Valkyries weren't made with toys in mind. The whole series was originally meant to be a Gundam parody, not a toy commercial.
Also, adding gimmicks =/= making them with a toy in mind. The Zeta transformed because it was the fad at the time. Kids and Otaku liked that shit, and gave the show views because of it. It associated itself with Macross like that to increase its own popularity. I won't deny that Gundam is typically meant to be a toy commercial, but when designers add gimmicks that CAN'T physically be mimicked in toy form, then that goes to show that they didn't design it with toys in mind. It's about animation and character appeal first and foremost, and THAT was what sold the shitty toys of the 80's, not any sort of design compromise.
>Gunpla actually saved Gundam from its poor rating.
Nope, it was the compilation movies that made Gundam popular. Nothing saved MSG's cancellation, not even the Gunpla being sold with it at the time.
>which appeals to nerds of that era who were usually into military models
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