>>12186884 Well done bad guys are usually more interesting than the main characters because they need clear and understandable motivations as to why they are bad. Good guys can just react to them and the situation. Poorly done bad guys are just evil for evil's sake.
>>12186884 Within 0079 specifically, Amuro has less of a backstory but a lot more character progression. A lot of the point of the show was to portray war as a bad thing that fucks people up and changes them despite the fact that it's using giant robots to do this.
>>12186884 >If Char were the main character. Then Gundam would be like Code Geass but with much more cool looking robots.
The thing is, at the time Gundam was made, it was simply using Char to fill the same role a bunch of other masked men or technically evil yet somehow oddly sympathetic villains had already played in other robot shows, particularly the Romance trilogy.
Amuro is a way less interesting character than Char, but he is perhaps easier to relate to, especially considering this was meant to be a series for kids, at heart.
Char being the protagonist might have made for cool stuff, but it wasn't likely to happen in that context.
>>12187148 Fuck you, I actually laughed out loud at this.
"He tried to drop Axis on the earth and murder billions of people." "He's fine. He's just like a puppy with a broken leg whose mother abandoned it was he was little. If I feed him by hand from a bottle and teach him how to trust and love again, he'll be okay despite the genocide. You'll see."
>>12188033 If this is the guy who thinks that Char wasn't merely using Nanai, even though Char says as much himself in CCA, then he probably doesn't.
This man isn't capable of love. Maybe at first he felt something for Lalah, he was on the cusp of some kind of emotion, but after she died and over the years whatever that was got twisted into something bizarre and perverse.
>>12188602 >You mean like Code Geass' villains. Not in the way you're suggesting at least. Sure, there are a lot of evil Britannian grunts. But that's the same for almost every mecha show. And,considering the villain protagonist of the series is Lelouch, technically, and that the other two opposing "main bad guys" weren't really "evil for evil's sake...I wouldn't say that.
>>12188610 Honestly, it wasn't out-of-nowhere, given that there are some rather blatant (in retrospect) references to what he was doing in the first half of that season. That is, long before the details of his plan were openly revealed.
Either way, even before that it still doesn't qualify as "evil for evil's sake" so that angle is poor criticism.
Like most Gundam protagonists, Amuro starts out the audience proxy. Boring, kind of irritable nerd, has his foibles, but not too loudly, so the audience can insert themselves, and then over time takes on his own life.
Unlike, say, Kira Yamato, who is ONLY an audience proxy, and has no actual personality of his own.
>>12188941 >>12188941 >Unlike, say, Kira Yamato, who is ONLY an audience proxy, and has no actual personality of his own. And unlike Kamille, who starts off by alienating the audience and slowly wins them over over the course of the show.
He started as a kid thrown into war which is interesting and makes you root for him as the underdog. Then the fucker is way too whiny for a long time so you dislike him. And later when muh matilda gets obliterated he steps up and becomes a pretty cool guy, but loses a bit of touch with his friends. This alienation is later touched upon with lala, with whom he finds a connection, and so there's hints at the end that it could be just the same with Sayla and Him, but the series ends, and we know nothing about them together after that even if Char shipped his sister to Amuro straightforwardly.
Char might have a more interesting background, but Amuro is pretty well developed during the course of the series.
>>12190503 This. Sauron is basically Middle Earth's Satan (actually that title belongs to his old master, but that's neither here nor there), and he's a great villain because he creates such a sense of dread and fear just by the mention of him. All that despite him actually being powerless during the entirety of the LotR trilogy, just being a depowered Maiar whose only real influence that still lingered was the power of corruption.
Amuro's role as the protagonist had a significant (and, frankly, essential) thematic purpose. He was more or less the underpinning of the entire story. >>12187203 No we don't. Not every little thing in the timeline needs to be filled and explored. The Origin makes that mistake more than enough on its own.
>>12190582 >Because if it was, then if you claimed a bad thing as good because you like it, then it's good. So basically the way modern art critics think when they give "different" or "controversial" stuff awards?
>>12190535 Morgoth's motivations were clearly defined in The Silmarillion as wanting to create as Eru Iluvatar did, which was not his purpose. In that he fell, and took other Ainur with him. Sauron's motivation in LOTR is not explained because it really isn't the focus of the story. Tolkein had a clear understanding of why his characters were evil beyond evil for evil's sake.
I judge quality from a purely objective standard, so no, my opinion has no relevance upon it.
>inb4 you can't judge a creative work completely objectively
>does this game function without breaking? Is it programmed such that it contains a minimal amount of bugs? >is the sound properly mixed and not cause audio issues? >does the animation not frequently have off-model shots? Do characters act consistently with their characterization? Are there plot points that are brought up and then never mentioned again or answered?
>>12190652 >I judge quality from a purely objective standard >I judge >objective I'm not sure you understand the subject/object distinction. >Can't you? No.
>does this game function without breaking? Is it programmed such that it contains a minimal amount of bugs? Wanting a game to be bug-free is a preference. A largely common one, but still a preference. >is the sound properly mixed and not cause audio issues? What constitutes "proper" mixing? What is an "issue"? Even if everyone agreed, that wouldn't be objective. Just a consensus. >does the animation not frequently have off-model shots? Again, trends in preference =/= objectivity. >Do characters act consistently with their characterization? This is less clear cut than you make it sound. People are complex, and "consistency" can be difficult to determine. And, again, wanting consistent characters is also a preference. >Are there plot points that are brought up and then never mentioned again or answered? Again, mere preference.
Even if everyone on the planet was uniform in their criteria (along with the resultant judgments based on this criteria) it wouldn't be "objective." Intersubjectivity is not objectivity.
>>12190685 >I'm not sure you understand the subject/object distinction. Not him, but I'm an objectivist, which says that the truth exists regardless of what you think of it and is immutable. If something is right then it is right no matter how much you think it's wrong.
>>12190736 Actually if you read anything in objectivist philosophy written in the 1940s and onwards, it kinda does.
>>12190740 First off, moral realism and moral objectivism are not the same thing.
Secondly, The Golden Rule, the concept formed by every religion and culture at some point, was not born out of any philosophy or thinking because cultures all think differently, but out of an inherent truth: the people are treated the way in which they treat others
>>12190753 >Actually if you read anything in objectivist philosophy written in the 1940s and onwards, it kinda does. How so? My post was denying that those examples were cases of objective truth claims. It said nothing about the nature of truth. Noumenon vs. phenomenon. >>>12190753 >moral realism and moral objectivism are not the same thing. The terms are almost always synonymous. What's the distinction you're making?
>>12190753 >The Golden Rule, the concept formed by every religion and culture at some point, was not born out of any philosophy or thinking because cultures all think differently, but out of an inherent truth: the people are treated the way in which they treat others
>>12190793 Oh. You meant Randian Objectivism. Outside of the Randian Objectivist sense, the terms "moral objectivism" and "moral realism" are almost always synonymous. Moral realism is moral objectivism.
>it is about something greater than people Not really. How can it be greater than people when it's only knowable through the sentiments of individuals? Your Golden Rule example was formed on the basis of it being common throughout the world. That's not objectivity or "greater than people." It's just a trend in human behavior.
Char works better as a deuteragonist than a primary protagonist, because Char's character is more clearly defined than Amuro's. Amuro works better as a protagonist because his story is less tragic and more relatable, having been thrust into the middle of the conflict, much like how the audience is thrust into the series. Char is an interesting character that serves as a foil for Amuro, but Amuro is the better protagonist because he provides the audience with a more stable starting point with which to engage the series in.
>>12190733 Taking over the world implies having to actually rule and manage it afterwards, which would be exremely hard, tiring, boring and risky since ragtag resistances will pop up everywhere out to cut your despotic head off. It's just not worth the hassle.
>>12195923 >Code Geass is one of the dumbest things I have ever seen. I'd assume it you haven't seen Victory Gundam, among other things.
>Don't ever mention Char and Code Geass in the same post again or /m/ will carpet bomb your house. Quite an irrational and senseless reaction. You remind me of Islamic terrorists who claim to speak on behalf of all Muslims.
>why is Amuro the protagonist In an anime about giant mechs and war where both sides do really shitty things I am pretty sure you can use your own discretion to pick who the good guys are Haman is my favorite protagonist from gundam series
So you want the antagonist to be some kid with a dad who abandoned him and who got forcefully drafted into the war? And the protagonist to be hunting and trying to kill the kid because he failed to kill the kid on their first meeting?
Are you trying to make this that Sniper movie in space?
>>12197192 Victory kills people off too fast without giving you time to get involved with the characters. Some of the other gundams are sadder and that is because you are invested in the characters. Code Geass is the same length as victory and most of them don't die until the end. They have personal struggles and develop in their own ways. The strategies are also amazing, Chronicle or the guillotine lady may be smart but neither would out plan Lelouch.
He's really not, though. He takes leadership of the AEUG only after being guilted into it by a few people, and this after actively avoiding the position for several years. In Neo-Zeon, as far as we can see in CCA, he's treated as more of a faceman for the leadership.
He sits in on the meetings, but it's other people handling the actual political dealings. Char just puts on the costume and does the dance for the people. He even spells it out after the Sweetwater speech when he says he feels like a clown.
He's less a great leader and more a begrudging political mascot care of his lineage and war record.
>>12197192 Victory is pretty stupid, man. Even Tomino doesn't like it. You may love or hate Code Geass but that doesn't make Victory somehow some sort of masterpiece. I guess you think the deaths were touching instead of hilarious and the bikini squad was scary.
>>12186884 The Origin OAV is already proving that's a great idea since Char is effectively the main character of the flashback era, at least until Amuro's story restarts in earnest . It also makes the parallels with Lelouch from Code Geass more obvious when you see how he was as a child and later teenager. Of course, that goes both for their interestingtraits and all the things they did wrong. Char could have reconciled with Amuro and let go of his hatred, but he didn't until it was too late.
>>12188953 Kamille starts as unintentionally hilarious then gets really fucking irritating for the whole show save for a few sparse moments where she doesn't seem to have a broom up his ass. And then he goes in holier than thou mode. And after that Karma plays its role.
>>12199427 >I like Kamille and his character arc. Omedetou. Are you trying to say that just because you did everyone else also did?
>I don't really understand how he was "holier than thou" The part where he goes "you're a terrible person for killing people, you deserve to fucking die" is a good example of that. I'd also say he showed bipolar traits when he (tried to) interact with Haman.
>11 years old >has no military training >has never been inside a cockpit before, let alone piloted a mobile suit >fights against soldiers in the military in 4 guntanks >mops the floor with each one of them.
So did they know that Artesia and Casval were in the Guntank or am I to believe that the Federation are full of scrub pilots?
>>12198194 >In Neo-Zeon, as far as we can see in CCA, he's treated as more of a faceman for the leadership. Dunno, it's made pretty clear that it was Char who came up with the whole Axis drop thingy. Maybe the old Zeon bigwigs sought him out at first because they wanted him to be the face, but in the end it seems that he DID hold the wheel.
He didn't care about them in that order. By the time of CCA, Char wants to beat Amuro in a fair fight or be killed by him. So he gave him a psychoframe equipped suit, and led Neo Zeon on a campaign that would force Amuro to fight him without holding back.
>THAT DOESN'T MEAN HE WILL BUILD A GODDAMN EMPIRE WITH ONLY HIS LINEAGE ALLOWED TO GOVERN YOU PIECE OF SHIT
>Suzaku, now an old man or his descendants could have created the Earth Federation.
So, regardless of the definition of 'empire' or not, which I did not enforce, it's totally not a 'bloodline', generational thing that his hypothetical descendants worked towards and finalized the creation of the Federation.
Good thing Unicorn pisses all over your stupid headcanon.
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